The way you go on and on about ezzard being better than archie and Hagler being able to top Monzon....well somebody's got to stop you from spreading such heretical blaspehmy.
I'm just trying to keep you from being burned at the stake. It's for your own good.
OK serious heads up here....the glitch regarding the "topic does not exist' is actually a software aspect designed to kill spambots.....it creates a bit of a nuisance for all of us "good citizens" but you will find the topic eventually.
It's the Price we have to pay for the assholes that want to ruin a good site like ours with their advertizing trash.
Did Hagler ever REALLY lose.
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scottmallon
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 499
- Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 20:41
.Tomato-Can wrote:I have always been a fan of Hagler so that may have clouded my judgement. The fight was televised in the USA and at the time I thought the Antoufermo decision was horrible.
Anyway with what Zurdo and Jaclem say about Monroe, Hagler did'nt really win em all. There are also many people who think Leonard deserved his win.
Leonard was a great fighter. He was also a media darling.
Hagler was robbed. The fight makes my stomach turn.
Leonard never gave him a rematch.
With the benefit of hindsight, Hagler should have turned it into a war from the opening bell. He'd have Ko'd him within five rounds.
I thought Leonard nicked it but haven't watched the fight in 15 years. The fact that Ray never gave him a rematch did stink. I lost some respect for him after that, and it did sour my love of boxing for a while.KO Artist wrote:.Tomato-Can wrote:I have always been a fan of Hagler so that may have clouded my judgement. The fight was televised in the USA and at the time I thought the Antoufermo decision was horrible.
Anyway with what Zurdo and Jaclem say about Monroe, Hagler did'nt really win em all. There are also many people who think Leonard deserved his win.
Leonard was a great fighter. He was also a media darling.
Hagler was robbed. The fight makes my stomach turn.
Leonard never gave him a rematch.
With the benefit of hindsight, Hagler should have turned it into a war from the opening bell. He'd have Ko'd him within five rounds.
I agree... It's a bit like winning the first few hands at poker and refusing to play on. If Ray had stayed retired then that would be 1 thing (after all he did say he would come back for 1 fight only) but when he made repeated comebacks against his old enemies (who all looked far more past it than he did) the whole show was a calculated act to snatch wins against fighters he'd refused to fight until they were damaged goods.Terence wrote: What is sad is that Hagler worked hard to bring stability to the division and in refusing a rematch he would probably have lost and then going his own way Ray disrespected Hagler and the division.
Ray had skill and honour in the ring, outside of it I care little for him. Hagler granted him the chance, why not reciprocate?
Leonard was a lion in the ring but something far less outside of it. It's a shame. I still love to watch him fight and rate him highly but there you have it...
FYI teraps last contributiion here was in November of 2003....may he R.I.P. I remember this thread from my "read only" days so I went hunting for it.
Though terap is now in a nursing home and apparently no longer has the strength to raise finger to keys, I notice that Jaclem and Tomato Can's nurses do wheel them up to the internet cubicle from time to time as they are still contributing fairly often.
I remembered this thread and dug it up to stir things up. I do not share teraps negativity regarding Hagler in any way shape or form. But I do think that the MW divsion has produced a few others that are his equal or perhaps even a bit more savy.
I know this can be considered a crime in several states so I always plan my travels carefully as to avoid those areas.
Though terap is now in a nursing home and apparently no longer has the strength to raise finger to keys, I notice that Jaclem and Tomato Can's nurses do wheel them up to the internet cubicle from time to time as they are still contributing fairly often.
I remembered this thread and dug it up to stir things up. I do not share teraps negativity regarding Hagler in any way shape or form. But I do think that the MW divsion has produced a few others that are his equal or perhaps even a bit more savy.
I know this can be considered a crime in several states so I always plan my travels carefully as to avoid those areas.
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dr_devious
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5348
- Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 09:19
Not that he's big-headed... I don't care about that. I grew up with the odd notion that boxers were by and large men of honour. Ray shattered that illusion for me when he didn't give hagler a rematch and then finally granted Duran a rematch when he was obviously so far past finished it wouldn't even be competitive. I'd say the same for Hearns but Ray, and me too, underestimated how much Tommy had left, but even then it had to be at silly catchweight so Ray could fight for extra paper titles.dr_devious wrote:I also thought Hagler won the fight. Why has everyone got a downer on Leonard as a person? I admit hes a bit big headed, but what is it that everyone dislikes so much?
I suppsoe it's always gone on but I held Ray in such high regard that i never thought he'd pull a stunt like that.
BuzzBoxBuzz wrote:FYI teraps last contributiion here was in November of 2003....may he R.I.P. I remember this thread from my "read only" days so I went hunting for it.
Though terap is now in a nursing home and apparently no longer has the strength to raise finger to keys, I notice that Jaclem and Tomato Can's nurses do wheel them up to the internet cubicle from time to time as they are still contributing fairly often.
I remembered this thread and dug it up to stir things up. I do not share teraps negativity regarding Hagler in any way shape or form. But I do think that the MW divsion has produced a few others that are his equal or perhaps even a bit more savy.
I know this can be considered a crime in several states so I always plan my travels carefully as to avoid those areas.
It's always good to get a different take on the greats. Everyone is beatable and nobody is beyond criticism. I think he made a good contribution.
I seem to remember Hagler being considered a top 10 MW. Some people started talking him up to #1 or #2 in the 1980s and there were a lot of people rejecting this at the time. Now it seems to be cemented that he was top 3 without a shadow of a doubt. I believe that he is top 3 but I like to hear other people challenging my views, and making me think carefully... so thanks for bumping/re-posting
This is an old thread mate.scottmallon wrote:All you seem to do Terap is HATE on everyone. It's dickheads like you who make me want to post less and less on this site and go elsewhere - where little girls like you don't whine and bitch because their "man" isn't getting the props you somehow think he deserves. Asshugger....nada mas.
terap got banned a few years ago.
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pound per pound
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1602
- Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 14:36
Hagler
I read this thread Terap is intersting. On one had he seems to know boxing. On the other hand he seems to be a harsh judge with an ax to grind on Hagler.terap wrote:Emannuel Steward is the genuis who completely overtrained his fighter Hearns for his most important fights against Leonard (I) and Hagler.
Steward was so incompetent that when Leonard had a completely closed eye in the first Hearns fight, Steward didn't tell Hearns to step to that side---where Leonard would have been unable to see his punches.
Something any average fighter or trainer would have known in better times of boxing.
Pathetic.
So far you have quoted three slick shills who churn out the pr.
I am still waiting for a real fighter (not a Dundee or Steward) whose own self-interests are not involved in his comment.
I think Hagler was a great middle weight. He did destroy another top fighter in Tommy Hearns. The fight was a short one and conditioning was not a factor in the outcome. Hagler's fists were.
Jaclem wrote:...buzz...did you intend to say.....".....guessing YOU'RE right? " otherwise your message wasn't finished.....didn't say my right to what...
Jaclem I type so fast that sometimes I don't even finish my sentences and I apologize for being eclectic and somewhat disassociated in my thinking...but I'll take care of that now and complete the unfinished thought......
your nurse used be a halfback for the Detroit Lions....so I'm guessing your right to use the internet cubicle at the old folks home is never questioned.
Last edited by BoxBuzz on 24 Aug 2006, 07:17, edited 1 time in total.
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blueberrymuffin
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 38
- Joined: 30 Jul 2006, 22:35
DLH, Roy Jones didn't play around. If you wanted a rematch, neither would play games and make you wait. I can't imagine Oscar or Roy telling the press "I'll only give Tommy a rematch when he admits he couldn't continue in the 14th round"Decagon wrote:Ezzard wrote:It's not just that he did that; it's that he didn't have to be such a bitch. He had the tools to beat Benitez, Hagler and Hearns in immediate rematches, and to beat Duran in an immediate rubber match, but he knew that the best way to make money was to move on with his career.dr_devious wrote:I grew up with the odd notion that boxers were by and large men of honour. Ray shattered that illusion for me when he didn't give hagler a rematch and then finally granted Duran a rematch when he was obviously so far past finished it wouldn't even be competitive. I'd say the same for Hearns but Ray, and me too, underestimated how much Tommy had left, but even then it had to be at silly catchweight so Ray could fight for extra paper titles.
What's worse is that he paved the way for future superstars, like Oscar de la Hoya and Roy Jones, Jr. to do the same thing.
Did Roy not give Tarver an immediate rematch?
If someone like leonard waits nine years to give out rematches or doesn't give a rematch to hagler you can't just say "he had the tools to beat them in a rematch so it doesn't matter. he had to go on with his career".
Tha explanation is a cop out and just meant to cover up for his excuses. We have enough of those peole running around.
I seem to recall the time when Leonard was asked by a reporter if he was going to defend his WBC middleweight title and Leonard said "No, that's it. I wasn't interested in any titles. I wanted hagler and nothing else"
Yet strangely enough, he waited six years before issuing his challenge. This is especially interesting considering that Leonard originally lost interest with a match with hagler after Marvin refused to fight him at a catchweight as lalonde had in 88.
Speaking of Lalonde, it was two titles, one of which was fabricated just for Leonard the year following Hagler-Leonard. The same leonard who told the reporter he wasn't interested in titles so he couldn't be bothered with defending his title.
i also thought it preferrable to fight lalonde instead of legitimate contenders.
It's a real shame. But Mayweather seems to be doing the same thing too.Decagon wrote:Ezzard wrote:It's not just that he did that; it's that he didn't have to be such a bitch. He had the tools to beat Benitez, Hagler and Hearns in immediate rematches, and to beat Duran in an immediate rubber match, but he knew that the best way to make money was to move on with his career.dr_devious wrote:I grew up with the odd notion that boxers were by and large men of honour. Ray shattered that illusion for me when he didn't give hagler a rematch and then finally granted Duran a rematch when he was obviously so far past finished it wouldn't even be competitive. I'd say the same for Hearns but Ray, and me too, underestimated how much Tommy had left, but even then it had to be at silly catchweight so Ray could fight for extra paper titles.
What's worse is that he paved the way for future superstars, like Oscar de la Hoya and Roy Jones, Jr. to do the same thing.
I remember an interview in which ray said he couldn't get "up" for rematches... unless of course he lost the first one...
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dr_devious
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5348
- Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 09:19
The end of Ray Leonards career did stink basically; the refusal to give Marvin an immediate rematch at MW, the sham of a fight against Donny Lalonde where he was given 2 titles to make him a 5-time "world champion", the snore fest against fat old Duran, and worst of all the way Tommy Hearns was robbed in the re-match.
..dammit....i have no idea if this post will appear and if does i don'y know how i'll find it. got a notification again...and ..again...the no such whatever exists. and i can't go to page three, which is listed either..get the same comment. i'm assuming that box buzz has this set up just for me...so he can slander me without my knowing it. really a rotten deed abusing the power of moderater.
