Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

In Another Country

Will be leaving for Mexico tomorrow.to my wife's hometown,Jiquilpan,Michoacan, for two weeks. The flight from Tijuana's airport to Guadalajara is a little over 3 hours.I've got a car rented that I'll pick up at the airport.the drive to Jiquilpan is a little over 3 hours.We arrive in Guadalajara at 2 pm.I don't want to be driving on those roads to Jiquilpan at night.

I remember Armando Muniz telling me once that he took his wife, and kids when they were little,to Mexico City. The purpose was to see family and friends.
"I want my kids to see what the other half lives like,"he said. "They need to see how grateful they should be."

In a way that's what going to my wife's hometown is like for me.But then again I go to Tijuana all the time.Yet there are parts of San Diego that can give you some insights.The difference is that here in the U.S. the government has got your back more.

Oh,I'm sure there are people out there that could read this and say that's bulls--t about how it is here but most of it is just an excuse.

I coached this kid on that team that played American football in Tijuana at that school I worked at in Tijuana.I mentioned it before.. Later,he became a Mexican immigration officer and was assigned down at the southern border in Chiapas where the people illegally cross into Mexico.I asked him what it was like.
"When we see them swimming in the river we shoot them and let the crocodiles eat them.If we catch them on foot we shake them down for everything they have and then turn them loose and then the gang members torture them.Kidnap their kids,rape the women or force them to be prostitutes.The lucky ones get through someway."
He said this like he was back on the football field describing a play.


My son on the right with his cousins in Jiquilpan many years ago. I've never heard my son absorb himself in self pity.

[Frankies Gal]

I always liked Ron Howard.He was Opie Taylor and then was in that nostalgic flick "American Graffiti" that ran into that TV series "Happy Days" and then he branched out directing movies.He wasn't Hitchcock but he was all right.But he blew it big time when he directed "Cinderella Man" ,that flick that was supposed to depict Jimmy Braddock winning the title from Baer in that biggest upset up to that time.He painted Baer a a villain.a sort of monster,who tried to intimidate Braddock with that I'm going to do to you what I did to Frankie Campbell crap. That was as low a blow as i ever saw. Baer never did that.He wasn't at al like he was portrayed in that movie.Maxie lost the title because, like he took life,he goofed off too much.I think Howard wishes he didn't direct that one,or at least do it differently.

In 1931, one of the reasons the California Boxing Commission labeled Max Baer a "boxing undesirable" and repeatedly refused him a license for most of the year, was because word had gotten back to the brand new commissioners, that Max in fact was bragging about killing Frankie Campbell to the people in New York when he fought there in late 1930. The new rules enacted in 1931 specifically were to both prevent a repeat of what Max did to Frankie, address the failures of the referee, (who had enormous power over when a fight was considered over, and whether he called a fighter out over illegal moves), and to have real consequences against both fighters and referees in the event of a repeat situation of a death like Campbell's. If Max had done what he did to Frankie in 1931, the legal situation for him and Toby Irwin would have been vastly different and Campbell would not have died.

Three days before the Braddock bout Max said was worried he would kill Braddock. That he had asked an ambulance to be nearby. That he had dreams that he "hurt the boy," that his handlers urged him to take Jim down with body blows, but Max said, "I can't do that, I just naturally punch to the head and I put everything I've got on my blows." Was that a direct threat ? No, but I'm sure Mae Braddock reading that took it as such, hence why she said she feared her husband would be killed in the ring. Did Max say "I'll keep you company after I kill your husband." Cinderella Man author Jeremy Schaap admitted he corresponded with Mae via written letters, and never addressed whether Max said that to Mae.

After 3000 hours and over 18 months of working on a Frankie Campbell biography, I can tell you that for some reason boxing historians and biographers of Max Baer, presented him as a good time guy, when he really was a very dark and sneaky fellow, with plenty of people behind him willing to keep the gravy train running at any cost.

[dagosd2000]

I always liked Ron Howard.He was Opie Taylor and then was in that nostalgic flick "American Graffiti" that ran into that TV series "Happy Days" and then he branched out directing movies.He wasn't Hitchcock but he was all right.But he blew it big time when he directed "Cinderella Man" ,that flick that was supposed to depict Jimmy Braddock winning the title from Baer in that biggest upset up to that time.He painted Baer a a villain.a sort of monster,who tried to intimidate Braddock with that I'm going to do to you what I did to Frankie Campbell crap. That was as low a blow as i ever saw. Baer never did that.He wasn't at al like he was portrayed in that movie.Maxie lost the title because, like he took life,he goofed off too much.I think Howard wishes he didn't direct that one,or at least do it differently.

In 1931, one of the reasons the California Boxing Commission labeled Max Baer a "boxing undesirable" and repeatedly refused him a license for most of the year, was because word had gotten back to the brand new commissioners, that Max in fact was bragging about killing Frankie Campbell to the people in New York when he fought there in late 1930. The new rules enacted in 1931 specifically were to both prevent a repeat of what Max did to Frankie, address the failures of the referee, (who had enormous power over when a fight was considered over, and whether he called a fighter out over illegal moves), and to have real consequences against both fighters and referees in the event of a repeat situation of a death like Campbell's. If Max had done what he did to Frankie in 1931, the legal situation for him and Toby Irwin would have been vastly different and Campbell would not have died.

Three days before the Braddock bout Max said was worried he would kill Braddock. That he had asked an ambulance to be nearby. That he had dreams that he "hurt the boy," that his handlers urged him to take Jim down with body blows, but Max said, "I can't do that, I just naturally punch to the head and I put everything I've got on my blows." Was that a direct threat ? No, but I'm sure Mae Braddock reading that took it as such, hence why she said she feared her husband would be killed in the ring. Did Max say "I'll keep you company after I kill your husband." Cinderella Man author Jeremy Schaap admitted he corresponded with Mae via written letters, and never addressed whether Max said that to Mae.

After 3000 hours and over 18 months of working on a Frankie Campbell biography, I can tell you that for some reason boxing historians and biographers of Max Baer, presented him as a good time guy, when he really was a very dark and sneaky fellow, with plenty of people behind him willing to keep the gravy train running at any cost.

Name the people behind
Baer who were devious and what do you mean by gravy train

[Frankies Gal]

Name the people behind
Baer who were devious and what do you mean by gravy train

His second manager Ancil Hoffman bragged to a reporter that he had local SF politicians and pols at the Capitol who would back him no matter what shadiness he engaged him. That he didn't report to or have to follow the rules laid out by the boxing commission because he had that backing. When the new commission withheld the fighter, manager and promoter's licenses in 1931, Ancil literally told the commissioners even if he was denied a promoters license he would continue to promote anyhow. Hoffman got his friend in the State Assembly to start a bill to wrest away who controlled the Commission, with a caveat that the bill would be pulled if the commissioners approved all three licenses. Hoffman's name came up repeatedly in a Governor sponsored inquiry into boxing in CA after Campbell's death. A ticket scandal, wresting a contract away from another promoter by offering a fighter more money, lies to manipulate the press, etc. but cuz he had political backing he skated consequences. Numerous fellow promoters and various boxing industry individuals testified that Hoffman had an entirely too cozy relationship with one or more of the former politically appointed commissioners in power during the Baer-Campbell bout.

From the beginning (in 1929) Max had clowned in the ring. Claims that he didn't start until after Frankie died in 1930 are false. His clowning was met with derisiveness repeatedly in the papers all through 1929 and into 1930, yet enough were willing to endure the performance, cuz once he had played possum and tired out his opponent, or once he felt like finally fighting, he would bring out that beautiful knockout right, and game over. Max was a terrific draw specifically for that aggressiveness; many hoped he might kill another opponent. Over time, once his lack of proper training, and the wear and tear on his hands became a problem, Max turned to drugs. He is directly quoted as saying before 300 people that "Carnera's gloves looked big because of the strychnine given me before the fight." When this illegal action threatened his hold on the title, he said he misspoke "I meant to say cherry wine and spirts of ammonia" or later, that he was just joking. Baer and Hoffman were notorious for constant threats to sue people, had multiple lawyers on retainer; so even if a state commission had ever requested blood to test, by the time the court cases were over, months had gone by and it wasn't feasible.

Before Braddock and Louis, his opponents managers said members of Max's own training camps and previous trainer Mike Cantwell, told them that he could not function in the ring without injectables and constant oral stimulants between rounds. The press admitted rumors of this had circulated for years, all the way back to Levinsky. They both took "the unprecedented step" of asking the NY commissions to monitor his corner. Notice how poorly Max fought against Braddock and Louis ? After the Louis quit, he admitted to reporters in his dressing room that he had personally attempted to inject cocaine into one of his hands but "made a mess of it."

From his first purse, Max went through money at a shocking rate, sold parts of himself, and put purchases on monthly payment plans. He had royalty level tastes, so he needed to fight to keep his creditors happy. But by 1937 his own father said he was 'either washed up or his hands were gone and he needed to quit" and the press constantly derided him and fervently wished he would retire due to his poor performances in the ring, and failure to take the game at all seriously. But Max and his handlers knew they could squeeze out some more money from "the suckers." He notoriously couldn't be bothered to train, barely cut down on his liquor and cigarette consumption, and continued to burn the candle at both ends. Watch any of his fights from that era. The way he would often position himself to throw just from the upper body indicates his legs were gone cuz he wouldn't do roadwork. He often couldn't finish his opponents once they were in trouble because his wind was gone. It was noted he largely fought in 30 second spurts. Max repeatedly announced he would retire, but the money was so good, that even though Max hated the game, hated the players, el greedo and a large group of people who would suddenly become unemployed convinced him to keep going. Max is quoted repeatedly as saying he needed to fight because so many people took a cut of him.

My biography is on Frankie Campbell, so I haven't delved deeply into all of Baer's affairs. Unless they relate somehow to Campbell; like Baer's farcical claims that he regularly supported Frankie's family (He didn't. He had to be shamed over 7 months just to hold the one benefit he did, and he regularly contradicts himself over the years on this claim, just as his story about that night in the ring with Campbell evolves a hundred different ways.) Or that he "put Frankie's children through college." (Frankie's wife miscarried their second child, and the first child got a full ride scholarship based on his sport and academic activities, testing results, and various achievements through high school). But the legacy of how many view Baer today, of the actions he took the night of his fight vs Frankie, the actions of those in boxing, legal and political positions after that fight, and his personal manipulation of that story over the decades, I've discovered is largely a constant cavalcade of incorrect information. I've literally addressed claims going back 40 years in articles and interviews, up to present century claims, then followed them back to their origins, to prove how the original words are easily disproven, and how a quote was twisted right into today's beliefs. For some reason, Baer biographers and article writers don't want to delve into any of this history, but I do so. Anyone with a subscription to newspapers online can easily look alot of this stuff up with a few keywords and some general dates.

[dagosd2000]

Name the people behind
Baer who were devious and what do you mean by gravy train

His second manager Ancil Hoffman bragged to a reporter that hxe had local SF politicians and pols at the Capitol who would back him no matter what shadiness he engaged him. That he didn't report to or have to follow the rules laid out by the boxing commission because he had that backing. When the new commission withheld the fighter, manager and promoter's licenses in 1931, Ancil literally told the commissioners even if he was denied a promoters license he would continue to promote anyhow. Hoffman got his friend in the State Assembly to start a bill to wrest away who controlled the Commission, with a caveat that the bill would be pulled if the commissioners approved all three licenses. Hoffman's name came up repeatedly in a Governor sponsored inquiry into boxing in CA after Campbell's death. A ticket scandal, wresting a contract away from another promoter by offering a fighter more money, lies to manipulate the press, etc. but cuz he had political backing he skated consequences. Numerous fellow promoters and various boxing industry individuals testified that Hoffman had an entirely too cozy relationship with one or more of the former politically appointed commissioners in power during the Baer-Campbell bout.

From the beginning (in 1929) Max had clowned in the ring. Claims that he didn't start until after Frankie died in 1930 are false. His clowning was met with derisiveness repeatedly in the papers all through 1929 and into 1930, yet enough were willing to endure the performance, cuz once he had played possum and tired out his opponent, or once he felt like finally fighting, he would bring out that beautiful knockout right, and game over. Max was a terrific draw specifically for that aggressiveness; many hoped he might kill another opponent. Over time, once his lack of proper training, and the wear and tear on his hands became a problem, Max turned to drugs. He is directly quoted as saying before 300 people that "Carnera's gloves looked big because of the strychnine given me before the fight." When this illegal action threatened his hold on the title, he said he misspoke "I meant to say cherry wine and spirts of ammonia" or later, that he was just joking. Baer and Hoffman were notorious for constant threats to sue people, had multiple lawyers on retainer; so even if a state commission had ever requested blood to test, by the time the court cases were over, months had gone by and it wasn't feasible.

Before Braddock and Louis, his opponents managers said members of Max's own training camps and previous trainer Mike Cantwell, told them that he could not function in the ring without injectables and constant oral stimulants between rounds. The press admitted rumors of this had circulated for years, all the way back to Levinsky. They both took "the unprecedented step" of asking the NY commissions to monitor his corner. Notice how poorly Max fought against Braddock and Louis ? After the Louis quit, he admitted to reporters in his dressing room that he had personally attempted to inject cocaine into one of his hands but "made a mess of it."

From his first purse, Max went through money at a shocking rate, sold parts of himself, and put purchases on monthly payment plans. He had royalty level tastes, so he needed to fight to keep his creditors happy. But by 1937 his own father said he was 'either washed up or his hands were gone and he needed to quit" and the press constantly derided him and fervently wished he would retire due to his poor performances in the ring, and failure to take the game at all seriously. But Max and his handlers knew they could squeeze out some more money from "the suckers." He notoriously couldn't be bothered to train, barely cut down on his liquor and cigarette consumption, and continued to burn the candle at both ends. Watch any of his fights from that era. The way he would often position himself to throw just from the upper body indicates his legs were gone cuz he wouldn't do roadwork. He often couldn't finish his opponents once they were in trouble because his wind was gone. It was noted he largely fought in 30 second spurts. Max repeatedly announced he would retire, but the money was so good, that even though Max hated the game, hated the players, el greedo and a large group of people who would suddenly become unemployed convinced him to keep going. Max is quoted repeatedly as saying he needed to fight because so many people took a cut of him.

My biography is on Frankie Campbell, so I haven't delved deeply into all of Baer's affairs. Unless they relate somehow to Campbell; like Baer's farcical claims that he regularly supported Frankie's family (He didn't. He had to be shamed over 7 months just to hold the one benefit he did, and he regularly contradicts himself over the years on this claim, just as his story about that night in the ring with Campbell evolves a hundred different ways.) Or that he "put Frankie's children through college." (Frankie's wife miscarried their second child, and the first child got a full ride scholarship based on his sport and academic activities, testing results, and various achievements through high school). But the legacy of how many view Baer today, of the actions he took the night of his fight vs Frankie, the actions of those in boxing, legal and political positions after that fight, and his personal manipulation of that story over the decades, I've discovered is largely a constant cavalcade of incorrect information. I've literally addressed claims going back 40 years in articles and interviews, up to present century claims, then followed them back to their origins, to prove how the original words are easily dft 4tisproven, and how a quote was twisted right into today's beliefs. For some reason, Baer biographers and article writers don't want to delve into any of this history, but I do so. Anyone with a subscription to newspapers online can easily look alot of this stuff up with a few keywords and some general dates.

Veŕÿ interesting . Will read your book.

[dagosd2000]

Rock, Paper ,Scissors

Got back last night from two weeks in my wife's hometown that I always write about ,Jiquilpan ,Mexico.The looks haven't changed much over the years.They guess around 15 thousand people live there.The government proclaimed the burg a "Pueblo Mexico." That's what hey believe is a typical Mexican town that exemplifies the culture and heritage of the country. Three presidents were born there including a rare good one,Lazaro Cardenas.Also one of the world's best trumpet players.Rafael Mendez.When he was a kid Pancho Villa heard him play the trumpet and asked his parents if they'd let their son join his army and sound the bugle charge when Pancho plunged his Dorados into a battle. Rafael's parents said no so Pancho responded by saying, in front of the kid and his folks, that if they didn't change their minds that he'd have mom and dad 'dobe walled in front of their kid. Rafael Mendez sounded many a bugle charge in future battles led by the infamous Centaur Of The North.Something to put on his resume for later.

As for boxing,Jiquipan had an alphabet champ in Julio Diaz,A pretty tough kid but he got 'dobe walled by another Diaz,Juan, that put a crimp in his future fistic aspirations.

There wasn't much in the news down there about boxing.None that I could think of.Mostly soccer.Nothing about any American sports action.That as fine with me.When major league baseball gets rolling that will change.

Speaking of boxing,Rick Farris' West coast Boxing Hall Of Fame bash is on for the 12th of March.It's too bad some network couldn't get some sponsor so it could be telecast live on the tube.But that shows you how boxing has taken s hit in the popularity contest.

My pal Chris Smith ,the transplanted Brit,will have on the eve of the WCBHOF his get together of boxing celebs in the LA's Art District. I see Danny Lopez will be there.He always attends these events,him and his wife,Bonnie.I remember those fight ,a round robin thing,of Danny ,Bobby Chacon,and Rockin' Ruben. Bobby was awed into defeat by Olivares.Olivares was stopped by Danny.And Little Red got run over by the School Boy. Go figure,.Who says styles don't make fights?


Bobby Chacon

[dagosd2000]

[dagosd2000]

A Better Fight In The Gym

There weren't many picking Ken Norton to beat Muhammad Ali that time they were to fight in San Diego.Two weeks before the fight both men wound down their training at the Town And Country Hotel in Mission Valley.They had set up a ring in one of the ballrooms and Ali would come in first to workout.The public was admitted free to watch the training sessions Ali always brought in a full house.When he was done,Nortonn would arrive,and though Kenny was a local,the crowd rapidly dispersed.

I stuck around to watch Norton train.I mean what the hell? I wanted to see how sharp he was.I didn't think he had a chance of winning but I was hoping for something better than a mismatch.

I've gone over this before. Ali pretty much dogged it in preparations.. He knew that after he finished off Norton he'd be in the ring with the recognized champ,George Foreman,for all the marbles. Norton was only to be a tune up.

Ali did more talking and joking to the crowd than wanting to break a sweat,They hung on every word out of his mouth. Ali was acting like he was on a Las Vegas stage doing his standup routine more than practicing for a fight His sparring sessions,which everyone wanted to see, were phlegmatic exhibitions of letting his sparring partners slug him against the ropes.Ali knew his legs couldn't get him out of a jam anymore so he thought by letting his sparring partners hit him at will he'd be prepared by what he would face in the ring. There was no butterfly floating.Those wings had been clipped by the time he had made his comeback.

Too bad the fans didn't stick around to watch Norton do his work. He'd arrive with Eddie Futch and his lone sparring partner,Eddie "Bossman," Jones.When they got in the ring together the sparks were flyin'.I don't know if this was because Futch wanted it that way or if the two actually didn't like each other because of a rumor that the "Bossman" was wooing Norton's ex.But any way you slice it those sparring sessions were a hell of a lot more lively than the actual fight.

But still in my mind I was looking at Muhammad Ali through rose colored glasses.I didn't think there was any way Norton could beat him.The only guy who had was a peak Joe Frazier, but Norton was trained by slick Eddie too.I can say I saw Angelo Dundee and Eddie Futch working with their guys every day, and hands down Futch was the guru.Angelo was a bystander.

There's no way Ali thought that Norton had that much going for him that night.Ali would start the jab and Norton would counter one of his own.Norton would sock low and Ali would bring his hands down,then Norton would shoot to the head.Ali wasn't able to pull his head back.As he laid on the ropes he was outpunched and outgunned.Ali was lucky that Frank Rustich,the referee,didn't stop the fight in the last 30 seconds of the final round.I asked Rustich about that later and all he said was,"There was a lot of money bet on that fight."

The crowd that night was just about all Ali.They left disappointed.But maybe if they had seen Norton in those sparring sessions with "Bossman" Jones they might have understood.


Muhammad Ali

[goose 5]

Hi Roger : Have you ever seen the rematch between Mike Rossman and Mike Nixon ? An article on the internet asserts that Nixon took a dive. I'm curious what you think? The fight is on you tube.

[dagosd2000]

Hi Roger : Have you ever seen the rematch between Mike Rossman and Mike Nixon ? An article on the internet asserts that Nixon took a dive. I'm curious what you think? The fight is on you tube.

Didn't read the article that was on the internet and this is the first time I've seen the fight.(on Youtube).If the fight was fixed only Nixon would have been in on it.Didn't look like it to me. Usually you can smell these things. The loser gets pummeled in the 1st round because he doesn't want to take a beating any more than he has to,or he clinches and holds and shows little offense going the full route.This wasn't the case.The punch that hit Nixon was flush.HIs face hit the canvas before the rest of his body.No phantom punch here..

[dagosd2000]

When Your Number Is Up

While I was down in Mexico I got a call from Rick Farris regarding my seating arrangements at the WCBHOF banquet on the 12th. He didn't know I was down there and the phone connection dropped off a few times.I told him I was in Mexico and that was probably why the phone bugged out.I kidded him that I'd see him back in LA if I didn't get kidnapped and they chopped my head off. Rick then snapped to and warned me.
"Be careful,"he said."It's all over the news.Watch yourself."
You know I go to Tijuana all the time and they're supposed to be the murder capital of the world per capita but I never feel like anything is gonna' happen to me.Now if I'm looking to get into the drug racket or I start walking the streets at night by myself in some dim lit run down neighborhood I'd be asking for trouble,but I'm not that stupid or want to take a risk, so it doesn't really cross my mind that anything is gonna' happen.Besides,if you're number is up there's nothing you can do about it.Everybody has a number.you just don't know when it's gonna' come up. And that's the way the people in Mexico figure it so they just go on living and don't worry about it.

Where me and my wife's house is at in the state of Michoacan. our state department has issued travel warnings not to go there with a few other states like Guerrero,Sinaloa,Chiapas and some others that I can't recall. They paint a picture that you'll get grabbed off the street and be held for ransom or that your head will wind up in a garbage bag and be left in a ditch somewhere. It's not like that. To be honest, our state department should offer travel warnings about going to parts of the good 'ol USA;places like the southside of Chicago,East St. Louis,Watts,Harlem,and sections of Camden ,Philly,and Newark,Baltimore,and our nation's capital for starters.

If I was in the Ukraine right now I'd be looking over my shoulder and being scarred.If someone is shooting at you you're in a battle and no one in a battle doesn't get shaky knees.This stuff about not going to Mexico just stirs up a lot of division. It makes for prejudice of Americans thinking that every illegal who wants to cross the border is a monster. Trump started it with telling people that Mexico just sends its "bad" people here.And people bought it and it's growing worse. Sure,those poor stiffs from down below want to come here but with a few exceptions they want to find work.I could easily find tons of worthless Americans that I'd like to deport to Mexico because they're a danger to society and I don't have to draw you a map.

Now I better talk about boxing or they'll move this post to another category. I guess Carlos Zarate had pneumonia.I hope he makes it to the WCBHOF bash.He's being inducted.I'd like to ask him his take on why boxing in Mexico is taking a standing 8 count. It's kind of a rhetorical question.He's from Tepito in Mexico City and he still lives there.Now that's a rough burg.Our niece lives there and she came out to Michoacan to our place when we were in Mexico.She's a sweet gal and she talked family stuff with us until she said something about everyone on the family tree.But she never brought up anything about the hardships of living in Tepito.There was no point in it.

Getting back to Zarate and what I'd like to touch bases on.These kids today figure it's an easier score to hook up with a cartel than to train to be a fighter.You might make some money both ways but on one hand you might get your head chopped off,and on the other hand wind up punchy.


Carlos Zarate

[goose 5]

Rick Farris wrote the article I referenced.

[Joson]

Hi Roger : Have you ever seen the rematch between Mike Rossman and Mike Nixon ? An article on the internet asserts that Nixon took a dive. I'm curious what you think? The fight is on you tube.

IMO, there's no way Nixon took a dive. He walked chin-first into a bomb that would have KO'd any middleweight.

Keep in mind that Nixon had a durability problem at all stages of his career. He was a good fighter, but whenever he stepped up the quality of his opposition, his chin usually let him down.

[Joson]

I just read the Farris blog post, which dates from 2009. He claims Rossman's rematch victories over Nixon and Mike Quarry were fixed. But I don't believe it.

Quarry and Rossman fought their first fight in September 1975. Rossman was an inexperienced middleweight at the time, with a record of 22-1-1. Quarry, by contrast, had been fighting pro for over six years, and had accrued a record of 51-7-3 in bouts against many of the world ranked light-heavyweight contenders. Given these factors, it's no surprise Quarry beat Rossman easily by decision.

The pair fought a rematch in December 1976. The important thing to understand is, at this point in time, Quarry was at the peak of his career, having defeated top contender Tom Bethea a few months earlier. All the magazines and both alphabets ranked Quarry in their top six or seven, and he was slated to fight a big money bout against WBC champ John Conteh on live TV. When Conteh pulled out at the last moment, Rossman entered as a substitute. This means Quarry was supposed to beat Rossman, then move on to fight Conteh at a later date.

The Rossman-Quarry rematch was hard fought and razor close on the scorecards. It could have gone to either fighter legitimately, but two of the three judges voted for Rossman, probably because he landed the harder punches. The consequences for Quarry's career were harsh.

I find it impossible to believe Quarry fixed a loss in return for under the table money. He had too much on the line. A loss to Rossman, who was not even rated at the time, would cost Quarry his world ranking and the opportunity to fight WBC king Conteh. Doesn't make any sense at all.

In May 1977, Quarry and Rossman fought a rubber match broadcast live on TV. The winner was promised a title fight with WBA champion Victor Galindez. This time Rossman chopped up Quarry, who retired on his stool after the sixth round. It's doesn't make sense to think that Quarry fixed this loss too. For Quarry, the stakes were simply too high.

Think about it. If Quarry had beaten Rossman in either bout, he would have moved directly into a title fight against Conteh or Galindez, and his purse (I'm guessing) would have been in the $30K to $70K range. Why would Quarry blow this upcoming payday by taking a dive?

Long story short: Farris's talk about Quarry taking the fix (once or twice) against Rossman cannot be true.

[dagosd2000]

I just read the Farris blog post, which dates from 2009. He claims Rossman's rematch victories over Nixon and Mike Quarry were fixed. But I don't believe it.

The first Rossman-Quarry bout happened in September, 1975. Rossman was still a novice pro, just 19 years old, with a record of 22-1-1. His only notable opponent at this point was Mike Nixon. As for Quarry, he had fought many of the world's top ten light-heavyweights over a six year pro career, running up a record of 51-7-3. This match was Rossman's first as a light-heavyweight. Given all these factors, it is not surprising Quarry won an easy decision.

The pair fought a rematch in December 1976. The important thing to understand is that, at this point in time, Quarry was at the peak of his career, having defeated top contender Tom Bethea a few months earlier. All the magazines and both alphabets ranked Quarry in their top six or seven, and he was slated to fight a big money title bout against WBC champ John Conteh on live TV. When Conteh pulled out at the last moment, Rossman was entered as a substitute. This means Quarry was supposed to beat Rossman, then move forward to fight Conteh at a later date.

The Rossman-Quarry rematch was hard fought, and razor close on the scorecards. It could have gone to either fighter legitimately, but two of the three judges voted for Rossman, probably because he landed the harder punches. The consequences for Quarry's career were harsh.

I find it impossible to believe that Quarry fixed a loss in return for under the table money. Quarry had too much on the line. A loss to Rossman, who was not even rated at the time, would cost Quarry his world ranking and the opportunity to fight WBC king Conteh. Doesn't make any sense at all.

In May 1977, Quarry and Rossman fought a rubber match which was broadcast live on TV. The winner of this match was promised a title fight with WBA champion Victor Galindez. As we all know, Quarry got chopped up by Rossman and retired on his stool after the sixth round. It's nonsense to believe that Quarry fixed this loss too (as Farris seems to imply). For Quarry, the stakes were simply too high.

If Quarry had beaten Rossman in either bout, he would have moved directly into a title fight against Conteh or Galindez, and his purse (I'm guessing) would have been in the $30K to $70K range. So, to motivate Quarry to fix a loss in either bout, the under-the-table money (dirty cash) would have had to be more than $30K to $70K. It's unthinkable anyone would pay Quarry that much to take a dive.

Long story short: Farris's talk about Quarry taking the fix (once or twice) against Rossman is baloney.

This is all new to me.I read Quarry's bio(right now I can't recall the author).Nothing hinting of any fix with any fighter on his brother's end. I'll see Rick on the 12th and bring it up to him.

A very young Rick Farris with Dwight Hawkins

[Joson]

This is all new to me.I read Quarry's bio(right now I can't recall the author).Nothing hinting of any fix with any fighter. I'll see Rick on the 12th and bring it up to him.


Jerry Quarry

Concerning Quarry's scheduled fight against WBC champ John Conteh in December 1976, which fell through, how much do you think his purse would have been? It was supposed to be a live TV bout. I figure $30K to $70K, but that's just a guess.

Same question for Quarry's purse if the proposed Galindez fight, for the WBA title, if it had come off in 1977. Does $30K to $70K sound right? Again, we're talking about live TV gig.

If anyone else here knows the financial side of 1970s pro boxing, I'm interested in hearing their answers to this question too.

[dagosd2000]

This is all new to me.I read Quarry's bio(right now I can't recall the author).Nothing hinting of any fix with any fighter. I'll see Rick on the 12th and bring it up to him.


Jerry Quarry

Concerning Quarry's scheduled fight against WBC champ John Conteh in December 1976, which fell through, how much do you think his purse would have been? It was supposed to be a live TV bout. I figure $30K to $70K, but that's just a guess.

Same question for Quarry's purse if the proposed Galindez fight, for the WBA title, if it had come off in 1977. Does $30K to $70K sound right? Again, we're talking about live TV gig.

If anyone else here knows the financial side of 1970s pro boxing, I'm interested in hearing their answers to this question too.

When I first responded to your post I got confused and had Jerry in mind.Jerry was blessed with more talent than Mike.I saw Mike fight against our local San Diego prospect Ronnie Wilson.Ronnie could never get by him.Mike had a lot of heart but that wasn't enough to make him a champ.Your numbers for the period are in the ball park.Again I'll bring it up to Rick.Knowing him he'll have his reasons.


Rick Farris and Armando Muniz getting a kick out of Bobby Chacon

[dagosd2000]

A Skin Condition

When I saw Mike Quarry get clipped by Pete McIntyre in 5 rounds back in 1978 at the San Diego Coliseum I said to myself that this guy has had it.He should call it a career. But like his big bro Jerry ,Mike kept plugging along whether he thought he'd be a big draw or still have the clout to make a score or maybe he just didn't know anything else on how to make ends meet.

At his stage of his career ,when I saw him in there with McIntyre, that should have been a wakeup call.There wouldn't be anymore championship fights or being in the big venues like Madison Square Garden or The Convention Center in Las Vegas.Mike was worn goods.He couldn't live off his name like his big brother.

Back in the 70's when Mike was trying to get footing in the light heavyweight division the caliber of fighters he faced ,at least on the coast,were at best plain vanilla.At the top of the division was Bob Foster who was a Baskin's and Robbins 31 Flavors,and then there were the rest-vanillas in a sugar cone.When Mike got his shot at Bob the ending was sudden.For awhile it looked like Mike would be leaving the arena feet first.Older Jerry was to follow into the ring to fight Muhammad Ali but seeing his brother get clocked like that erased any chance Jerry might have had to score an upset.

I saw Mike fight a local Chicano,Amado Vasquez, at the softball field in National City down here in San Diego. The place was filled with Vasquez people and the feeling was strong that he would come out the winner.The Quarry clan was represented:big bro Jerry and his wife and Ma and Pa .Of course when they were ID'd the mostly Mexican crowd gave them the razz.But that only seemed to stir up the Quarry bunch as they boldly strutted in front of the hecklers daring them to put up or shut up.MIke won the fight and instead of the Quarry's looking for the nearest exit they piled into the ring to embrace their boy.

MIke ,like Jerry,took the dare from dear 'ol dad to become a fighter.Dad telling them that Quarry's ain't afraid of no one.While dad dreamed of being a pug he didn't want to take off his pants and become a fighter (he had psoriasis on his legs)He lived his dream through his sons.Both boys died from the dementia.The parents were devastated.I think once in awhile if dad hadn't have had those blotches on his legs maybe his sons would have turned out to be something else-but I can't imagine what.


The National City softball field.Site of Mike Quarry's match with Amado Vasquez

[Joson]

A Skin Condition

When I saw Mike Quarry get clipped by Pete McIntyre in 5 rounds back in 1978 at the San Diego Coliseum I said to myself that this guy has had it.He should call it a career. But like his big bro Jerry ,Mike kept plugging along whether he thought he'd be a big draw or still have the clout to make a score or maybe he just didn't know anything else on how to make ends meet.

At his stage of his career ,when I saw him in there with McIntyre, that should have been a wakeup call.There wouldn't be anymore championship fights or being in the big venues like Madison Square Garden or The Convention Center in Las Vegas.Mike was worn goods.He couldn't live off his name like his big brother.

The McIntyre fight should have been Quarry's final fight. The bout was supposed to be an easy victory for Mike, a tune up against a unheralded foe with a 6-8-1 record. But it turned into a shocking, brutal KO upset.

Many years later, Quarry publicly admitted that he lost all his motivation after the 1977 Rossman fight, following which he began using cocaine heavily. From that point onward, Mike was a mere shadow of the fighter he had once been.

BTW, there's now a film on the Internet showing highlights of Quarry's 1974 bout with top contender Pierre Fourie. This film shows Quarry at his best, a time when he could hold his own against anyone in the world, and sometimes even win. Fourie, fighting on his home turf in South Africa, won a controversial decision. But Quarry floored and cut Fourie during the bout. Many people, including the South African audience and media, believed Mike deserved the nod.

[dagosd2000]

A Skin Condition

When I saw Mike Quarry get clipped by Pete McIntyre in 5 rounds back in 1978 at the San Diego Coliseum I said to myself that this guy has had it.He should call it a career. But like his big bro Jerry ,Mike kept plugging along whether he thought he'd be a big draw or still have the clout to make a score or maybe he just didn't know anything else on how to make ends meet.

At his stage of his career ,when I saw him in there with McIntyre, that should have been a wakeup call.There wouldn't be anymore championship fights or being in the big venues like Madison Square Garden or The Convention Center in Las Vegas.Mike was worn goods.He couldn't live off his name like his big brother.

The McIntyre fight should have been Quarry's final fight. The bout was supposed to be an easy victory for Mike, a tune up against a unheralded foe with a 6-8-1 record. But it turned into a shocking, brutal KO upset.

Many years later, Quarry publicly admitted that he lost all his motivation after the 1977 Rossman fight, following which he began using cocaine heavily. From that point onward, Mike was a mere shadow of the fighter he had once been.

BTW, there's now a film on the Internet showing highlights of Quarry's 1974 bout with top contender Pierre Fourie. This film shows Quarry at his best, a time when he could hold his own against anyone in the world, and sometimes even win. Fourie, fighting on his home turf in South Africa, won a controversial decision. But Quarry floored and cut Fourie during the bout. Many people, including the South African audience and media, believed Mike deserved the nod.

You brought up Quarry's cocaine use.At the time of the McIntyre fight it wasn't out in the open but from I saw he looked drained and badly out of shape. It was a tip off. McIntyre really chopped him to pieces. I remember Quarry going down like he was poleaxed.

[dagosd2000]

Mike Quarry

Off hand I'd say next to Ken Norton(at least in recent times)Ronnie Wilson was the most popular fighter in San Diego. Art Hafey was close to that.And Jack O'Halloran had his 15 m8nutes of fame. But San Diegans believed that Wilson was going to be the light heavyweight champ someday if Bob Foster ever threw in the towel.However for Ronnie he had to get by Mike Quarry to take the next step.

The first fight of the three was anticipated anxiously by Ronnie's followers. Ronnie was a slick boxer who moved his feet well and had enough skills to beat Mike but lacked the strength to stay in with him to the end.That became evident in the first fight and the subsequent ones. By the time they met the last time both boys were having their problems.Ronnie was fighting too often and not giving his thin skin enough time to heel his cuts. Mike had shot his load in tough battles and was no loner considered a serious threat for a championship. And then for both there were issues outside the ring-liquor,drugs,marital problems(at least on Ronnie's end).

When it was over Ronnie moved back to his native Canada where he could get the aid of some socialized health care. He died a few years back .He was homeless living in a park in Vancouver.At 55 years of age Mike died from dementia.Both boys gave the fans their money's worth. Too bad they couldn't have shared in the revelry a bit longer.

[Joson]

Mike Quarry

The first fight of the three was anticipated anxiously by Ronnie's followers. Ronnie was a slick boxer who moved his feet well and had enough skills to beat Mike but lacked the strength to stay in with him to the end.That became evident in the first fight and the subsequent ones.

In this particular instance, how do you define "strength?" Do you mean cardiovascular strength, or physical conditioning that's necessary to fight at 100% energy level in a bout's later rounds? Similar to what cross country runners need to win races?

Or do you mean "strength" in the sense of upper-body strength, like a weightlifter or wrestling has, which is useful in boxing because it enables a guy to bull his opponent around? Examples of this were Mustafa Hamsho, Victor Galindez, Vito Antuofermo, among others.

I'm certain you don't mean "strength" as punching power. That's because almost everybody had superior punching power relative to Mike Quarry.

As for the third and final Quarry-Wilson fight, both guys must have been totally shot. It took place in early 1978, a month or two before the cocaine-weakened Quarry fought like a zombie against McIntyre and got KO'd.

[dagosd2000]

Mike Quarry

The first fight of the three was anticipated anxiously by Ronnie's followers. Ronnie was a slick boxer who moved his feet well and had enough skills to beat Mike but lacked the strength to stay in with him to the end.That became evident in the first fight and the subsequent ones.

In this particular instance, how do you define "strength?" Do you mean cardiovascular strength, or physical conditioning that's necessary to fight at 100% energy level in a bout's later rounds? Similar to what cross country runners need to win races?

Or do you mean "strength" in the sense of upper-body strength, like a weightlifter or wrestling has, which is useful in boxing because it enables a guy to bull his opponent around? Examples of this were Mustafa Hamsho, Victor Galindez, Vito Antuofermo, among others.

I'm certain you don't mean "strength" as punching power. That's because almost everybody had superior punching power relative to Mike Quarry.

As for the third and final Quarry-Wilson fight, both guys must have been totally shot. It took place in early 1978, a month or two before the cocaine-weakened Quarry fought like a zombie against McIntyre and got KO'd.

C'mon,these guys were ever physical culturists. Weightlifting wasn't in their reportoire..Because of their bad habits, that reflected on their lack of preparation, they lacked the stamina that's required of a top notch fighter. By the third fight ,like I said,they lacked the strength to compete at least at a contender level.THey were simply out of shape.It was a meaningless fight for both boys.Very little interest with the public by that time.

[dagosd2000]

Out Of Ammunition


When was that? Around a year ago when Evander Holyfield fought that exhibition that in reality was a real fight against Vitor Belfort? That was tough for me to watch.

I always liked Evander Holyfield. He was a Marine like my dad.He didn't shoot his mouth off like Tyson and Ali.He didn't duck anybody.But he fought way too long. He had all those child support payments,and he thought he could be the champ again. But he fought too long. He was grinded down into a halt at the end.

Earlier in his career when he was a light heavy he knew the big money was fighting the heavyweights. But he needed to pack on more muscle.When he hooked up with Mr. Universe Lee Haney I knew what direction he was going.In short time he was bigger but you could see that he was retaining water in his tissue.His pecs were heavier.He hairline was receding.And his ticker was starting fluctuate.There was concern when he fought Riddick Bowe that his heart was giving him problems. But since when are the docs ever going to quash a mega fight because of a fighters bad heart?It's the old hypocrite oath.

But he finally got the dosage right and he established himself as a tremendous heavyweight. I loved it when he put the bully Tyson in his place.Didn't fall for his bully bluffing bulls--t.But like I said,he stayed with fighting too long.

Then last year he fought this cage fighter Vitor Belfort.Evander had been away from fighting a long time. I'm thinking this guy must need the money and thinks it's going to be an easy score.I saw the replay afterwards. When fighters stay out of the game for more than two years they lose that edge and never get it all back.Ali,Sugar Ray Robinson,Leonard for examples-great fighters who thought they still had it in them but never dipped their hand in that fountain of youth.

It was a 1st round embarrassment for one of the greatest heavyweights who once was.An ex fighter can get back into the gym and do a million pushups and hit the punching bags forever and spar till the cows come home and do roadwork till the soles on his shoes wear off, but one thing he'll never recapture is his timing. Once it's gone that's it. Evander couldn't have put together a jigsaw puzzle that night against that dude he was fighting.And another factor-the brain ain't wired like it was before.Get hit on the shoulder, and fall down like a ton of bricks.After a couple of knockdowns the ref asked him if he wanted to go on. Evander said he had had it.Man,that was tough to watch.


Evander Holyfield

[dagosd2000]

A Practice Player

I've seen it in a lot in sports;the guy who looks like a world beater in practice but when he gets in the game he comes up a cropper.I've coached my share of high school football and saw plenty of kids who looked like they were on their way to getting a ride to a Division 1 School but that vision was on the practice field. In the game they fell flat on their faces.It had to be a mental thing. The heat in the kitchen was just too thot.

I've seen it in the boxing gym too. The fighter who can skip the rope and hit the bags like he was putting on a clinic.Then he gets in the ring to spar and he shows skills like he's a contender at least.Then he gets in the real fight and he freezes.He gets booed by the crowd who thinks this guy is just another stiff. He's a 4 round prelim guy all the way. Before he knows it no promoter wants to sign him because he's a lousy draw. If anything he's the proverbial stepping stone.

There used to be a fighter who was from one of those Central American countries who fought a few times at the San Diego Coliseum. They called him Kid Rayo. The first time I saw him workout in the gym he looked pretty good.He'd been around the block by then. The gym rats filled me in that he had once beaten Gaspar Ortega and was no stranger to some of the better welterweights of that era. He had more losses than wins but he knew what he was doing in the gym. I asked about him and was told that what I'd see in the gym wouldn't translate to what he'd show when it counted.

He was scheduled to fight an undefeated fighter named Aristeo Castro at The Coliseum. Castro was getting some notice as being a potential future star and I guess they figured that Rayo would be a credible notch on Castro's gun. The fight started slowly with both fighters looking out of sync.They couldn't put anything together and with Castro being the heavy favorite his ineptness was working against with the judges and the crowd. But then again Rayo didn't show any of that stuff I saw when he was working out in the gym. Then the weirdest thing happened.i think it was somewhere in the middle of the fight.Both guys fell into a clinch.Rayo then tapped his glove on the back of Castro like the referee was signaling a break.The ref was behind both fighters.Castro fell for it and stepped back dropping his hands. Right away Rayo let loose a left and the fight was over.

Kid Rayo didn't build on that win(he lost his next three and called it a career)but I have to hand it to the guy. He knew the significance of that boxing adage,"Protect yourself at all times."