Athletes get better with every generation. It's true in every sport and it's true in boxing too.
Fury underlines what rubbish that is to expand it to boxing.
The every generation gets better thing is best applied to athletics where marginal gains add to it .. plus PEDs of course.
Sprinters get faster .. cyclists get faster .. swimmers faster etc
Training, diet, equipment .. and opportunities too all had significance to that.
All Fury has is huge size and a very weak era. Of course he has skills, but clearly not skills superior to those of last 50 years.
Current boxers often get overhyped when their at the top, much like on flip side past boxers get more credit in hindsight - Lewis benefits this.
But in 10-20 years people will look at Fury's current record and say he was (probably) the best of a bad bunch.
Fury's skillset combines many skills of other eras that I don't think anyone in any other era comes close to. He's copied the lateral movement of Leonard and Ali, he's copied the shoulder roll of Toney, he's copied Chris Byrd's jab catch defense, he's learnt Herol Graham switch hitting so he can box out of orthodox or southpaw stances, he's learnt the fast flurrying ability of Leonard and Delahoya and now he's added a Kronk powerpunching to his game. I'm not saying he's perfected all those skills, but for a 6'9 man with a dragon like wingspan it's massively impressive and massively difficult to get the better of. Fury doesn't look the part but he's the Usain Bolt of boxing
Also every era gets called a bad bunch at the time and only gets respect retroactively. When Ali and Frazier were fighting I think it was Gene Tunney who was saying Jess Willard would beat both, which is laughable.
I think you can suggest those ideas, but quite a big issue with Fury is that he’s not consistently testing himself in competitive fights. Skills will atrophy. There’s long periods of inactivity and a lot of soft opponents. And he trains in Morecambe! The bottom line may be that in other eras he wouldn’t get away with this. But he is lucky to be born in a puddle-deep era of heavyweight talent. There are barely any good fighters and it’s a gift for him.
As a hypothetical say instead of Chisora, Fury faced the Tua, Lewis subdued. Would Fury be able to do the same? Would Tua have just walked through Fury’s punches - he’s not a big puncher! - or would perhaps that famed stamina not be quite as good as expected. Tua isn’t old, broken down Chisora. He’s just turned 28. I just don’t think you should get too carried away with Fury magical abilities, as he’s rarely taking any tests.
big lennox wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 08:42
Well, another week has gone past and still no formal announcement that Fury vs Uysk is on. I can't ever remember a negotiation dragging on as long as this one.
If Lewis had negotiated like this in the run up to the Holyfield fights, I’d imagine the American press would have labelled him a coward, trying to duck fights he might lose. No two ways about that.
Polecateddy, you can't make statements like that because that eminent deep thinker, BigDoofus, will accuse you of having a low IQ
Oh imagine this place in 96… Mike Tyson, fresh out of jail for rape, beats Pete McNeily and wins a title from Frank Bruno who’s performance made Audley’s against Haye look like Balboa’s v Drago. Bowe lobs his belt in a bin, Lennox, in between getting sparked, ACCEPTS STEP ASIDE MONEY FROM MIKE TYSON….. what an era. I’ll ask the question I ask any Mike Tyson fan, name me one fight he came back from adversity and won?
This heavyweight era is piss poor, hardly a controversial statement. It’s been utter crap since Lewis retired. The fact that someone so limited as Wilder as being heralded as one of the best of modern times says it all.
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:16
This heavyweight era is piss poor, hardly a controversial statement. It’s been utter crap since Lewis retired. The fact that someone so limited as Wilder as being heralded as one of the best of modern times says it all.
Wilder will go down as better than Berbick, Seldon, Smith, Spinks* and Bruno. *Spinks as a heavyweight.
Anyway, back on topic, and my haters will love this....
I've just had a coffee with a license holder with a lot of connections. He told me Jimmy Harrington has been driving to Morecambe from Doncaster at 6.00am every day since January to train Tyson. the plan was always to wait until Sugar was over with The Source before they link up due to visa issues, etc. Harrington is Tommy's manager only in name and Tommy trains at Alex Matvienko's gym. Harrington said in Saudi he had been in Morecambe for Issac Lowe who doesn't even have a fight lined up and couldn't afford a camp like that anyway. Tyson is in tip top condition and the fight just needs signing. Immediately.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:24
Anyway, back on topic, and my haters will love this....
I've just had a coffee with a license holder with a lot of connections. He told me Jimmy Harrington has been driving to Morecambe from Doncaster at 6.00am every day since January to train Tyson. the plan was always to wait until Sugar was over with The Source before they link up due to visa issues, etc. Harrington is Tommy's manager only in name and Tommy trains at Alex Matvienko's gym. Harrington said in Saudi he had been in Morecambe for Issac Lowe who doesn't even have a fight lined up and couldn't afford a camp like that anyway. Tyson is in tip top condition and the fight just needs signing. Immediately.
Mickey1975, thanks for sharing that intel. Very much appreciated. I thought Tyson looked in shape in Saudi Arabia. Fingers crossed that the fight is signed ASAP.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:15
Oh imagine this place in 96… Mike Tyson, fresh out of jail for rape, beats Pete McNeily and wins a title from Frank Bruno who’s performance made Audley’s against Haye look like Balboa’s v Drago. Bowe lobs his belt in a bin, Lennox, in between getting sparked, ACCEPTS STEP ASIDE MONEY FROM MIKE TYSON….. what an era. I’ll ask the question I ask any Mike Tyson fan, name me one fight he came back from adversity and won?
Who brought Mike Tyson into this?
And for what benefit? To distract or just change discussion??
Kilburn wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 06:55
Teleport Fury into 1996 and he’d struggle to crack the top 15, in my opinion.
We’re just not in an era currently, that is producing great heavyweights.
False.
Athletes get better with every generation. It's true in every sport and it's true in boxing too.
Fury underlines what rubbish that is to expand it to boxing.
The every generation gets better thing is best applied to athletics where marginal gains add to it .. plus PEDs of course.
Sprinters get faster .. cyclists get faster .. swimmers faster etc
Training, diet, equipment .. and opportunities too all had significance to that.
All Fury has is huge size and a very weak era. Of course he has skills, but clearly not skills superior to those of last 50 years.
Current boxers often get overhyped when their at the top, much like on flip side past boxers get more credit in hindsight - Lewis benefits this.
But in 10-20 years people will look at Fury's current record and say he was (probably) the best of a bad bunch.
I don’t know how anyone could watch Fury and believe he could make that style work against the greats of the past. Yes he has good movement for a big lump, but when looking at the quality of the punches he throws versus the quality and amount of punches that would be coming straight back at him, it’s pretty clear to me he’d have got absolutely battered several times over in a different era.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:24
Anyway, back on topic, and my haters will love this....
I've just had a coffee with a license holder with a lot of connections. He told me Jimmy Harrington has been driving to Morecambe from Doncaster at 6.00am every day since January to train Tyson. the plan was always to wait until Sugar was over with The Source before they link up due to visa issues, etc. Harrington is Tommy's manager only in name and Tommy trains at Alex Matvienko's gym. Harrington said in Saudi he had been in Morecambe for Issac Lowe who doesn't even have a fight lined up and couldn't afford a camp like that anyway. Tyson is in tip top condition and the fight just needs signing. Immediately.
It's welcome reassurance if it's true. But your reliable sources regarding Tommy Fury's Wilder-like punching power leaves me a tad cynical.. I'll wait till it's official
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:15
Oh imagine this place in 96… Mike Tyson, fresh out of jail for rape, beats Pete McNeily and wins a title from Frank Bruno who’s performance made Audley’s against Haye look like Balboa’s v Drago. Bowe lobs his belt in a bin, Lennox, in between getting sparked, ACCEPTS STEP ASIDE MONEY FROM MIKE TYSON….. what an era. I’ll ask the question I ask any Mike Tyson fan, name me one fight he came back from adversity and won?
What a disingenuous little posting. ‘In between between getting sparked’ - yeah he only had 12 top level fights, as well as some warm ups with Butler and Fortune. When’s Fury going to have 14 fights now? When did Mike Tyson ever come back from adversity - well it’s not never because Bruno clouted him in round one of their first fight. I don’t know what you’re trying to defend here - we’re simply raising doubts as to whether Fury’s approach now would have really cut the mustard in earlier eras. A big part of sport usually is being active against good opposition. That’s how you keep developing your skills. That’s just like basic!
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:24
Anyway, back on topic, and my haters will love this....
I've just had a coffee with a license holder with a lot of connections. He told me Jimmy Harrington has been driving to Morecambe from Doncaster at 6.00am every day since January to train Tyson. the plan was always to wait until Sugar was over with The Source before they link up due to visa issues, etc. Harrington is Tommy's manager only in name and Tommy trains at Alex Matvienko's gym. Harrington said in Saudi he had been in Morecambe for Issac Lowe who doesn't even have a fight lined up and couldn't afford a camp like that anyway. Tyson is in tip top condition and the fight just needs signing. Immediately.
It's welcome reassurance if it's true. But your reliable sources regarding Tommy Fury's Wilder-like punching power leaves me a tad cynical.. I'll wait till it's official
No problem. My sources on Tommy was Youtube and numerous pros saying so, i never claimed anything else.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:15
Oh imagine this place in 96… Mike Tyson, fresh out of jail for rape, beats Pete McNeily and wins a title from Frank Bruno who’s performance made Audley’s against Haye look like Balboa’s v Drago. Bowe lobs his belt in a bin, Lennox, in between getting sparked, ACCEPTS STEP ASIDE MONEY FROM MIKE TYSON….. what an era. I’ll ask the question I ask any Mike Tyson fan, name me one fight he came back from adversity and won?
Who brought Mike Tyson into this?
And for what benefit? To distract or just change discussion??
96 was brought into this. The year Mike fought Bruno.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:24
Anyway, back on topic, and my haters will love this....
I've just had a coffee with a license holder with a lot of connections. He told me Jimmy Harrington has been driving to Morecambe from Doncaster at 6.00am every day since January to train Tyson. the plan was always to wait until Sugar was over with The Source before they link up due to visa issues, etc. Harrington is Tommy's manager only in name and Tommy trains at Alex Matvienko's gym. Harrington said in Saudi he had been in Morecambe for Issac Lowe who doesn't even have a fight lined up and couldn't afford a camp like that anyway. Tyson is in tip top condition and the fight just needs signing. Immediately.
It's welcome reassurance if it's true. But your reliable sources regarding Tommy Fury's Wilder-like punching power leaves me a tad cynical.. I'll wait till it's official
Well here's hoping it is true and certainly completey different from the picture Mickey was previously painting where he stated Fury was becoming an embarrassment, had lost the plot and wasn't mentally or physically prepared for a fight on April 29th.
Strange he attacks and accuses others of speaking shite, he must've forgotten his own views from last week.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:15
Oh imagine this place in 96… Mike Tyson, fresh out of jail for rape, beats Pete McNeily and wins a title from Frank Bruno who’s performance made Audley’s against Haye look like Balboa’s v Drago. Bowe lobs his belt in a bin, Lennox, in between getting sparked, ACCEPTS STEP ASIDE MONEY FROM MIKE TYSON….. what an era. I’ll ask the question I ask any Mike Tyson fan, name me one fight he came back from adversity and won?
Who brought Mike Tyson into this?
And for what benefit? To distract or just change discussion??
its a thing that almost always happens whenever HW comparisons & resumes get put on the table - literally almost impossible not to throw Mike Tysons name into the page somewhere .
Personally I think he should never have boxed again after being in jail for rape , I enjoyed whatching him in the pre jail period like any other fan but then once his true chracter was revealed that was it for me .
Except to say I watched Douglas / Holyfield and Lewis all do the number on him with glee .
Even now when he sometimes gets on the camera and talks its just cringe .
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:16
This heavyweight era is piss poor, hardly a controversial statement. It’s been utter crap since Lewis retired. The fact that someone so limited as Wilder as being heralded as one of the best of modern times says it all.
Wilder will go down as better than Berbick, Seldon, Smith, Spinks* and Bruno. *Spinks as a heavyweight.
You sure Mickey? Wilder has absolutely NO resume. To be honest, until we have better yardsticks he could be anything.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:24
Anyway, back on topic, and my haters will love this....
I've just had a coffee with a license holder with a lot of connections. He told me Jimmy Harrington has been driving to Morecambe from Doncaster at 6.00am every day since January to train Tyson. the plan was always to wait until Sugar was over with The Source before they link up due to visa issues, etc. Harrington is Tommy's manager only in name and Tommy trains at Alex Matvienko's gym. Harrington said in Saudi he had been in Morecambe for Issac Lowe who doesn't even have a fight lined up and couldn't afford a camp like that anyway. Tyson is in tip top condition and the fight just needs signing. Immediately.
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:16
This heavyweight era is piss poor, hardly a controversial statement. It’s been utter crap since Lewis retired. The fact that someone so limited as Wilder as being heralded as one of the best of modern times says it all.
Wilder will go down as better than Berbick, Seldon, Smith, Spinks* and Bruno. *Spinks as a heavyweight.
You sure Mickey? Wilder has absolutely NO resume. To be honest, until we have better yardsticks he could be anything.
Take your pick from the top heavyweights from the Lewis area, Wilder would have got hit hard and a lot from the opening bell. It would not have been pretty.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:24
Anyway, back on topic, and my haters will love this....
I've just had a coffee with a license holder with a lot of connections. He told me Jimmy Harrington has been driving to Morecambe from Doncaster at 6.00am every day since January to train Tyson. the plan was always to wait until Sugar was over with The Source before they link up due to visa issues, etc. Harrington is Tommy's manager only in name and Tommy trains at Alex Matvienko's gym. Harrington said in Saudi he had been in Morecambe for Issac Lowe who doesn't even have a fight lined up and couldn't afford a camp like that anyway. Tyson is in tip top condition and the fight just needs signing. Immediately.
It's welcome reassurance if it's true. But your reliable sources regarding Tommy Fury's Wilder-like punching power leaves me a tad cynical.. I'll wait till it's official
No problem. My sources on Tommy was Youtube and numerous pros saying so, i never claimed anything else.
But if someone repeats a lie often enough ...
Lots of fights took place in 96 ... Lewis had a tough fight against Mercer, but both guys showed great skills and heart. There was even Henry Akinwande beating Jeremy Williams which had quite a bit of coverage if I remember too.
it would have been more relevant mentioning these than Mike Tyson at that stage - prob more so Akinwande who was also a very tall Brit who feasted on lower level opponents.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:18
Wilder will go down as better than Berbick, Seldon, Smith, Spinks* and Bruno. *Spinks as a heavyweight.
You sure Mickey? Wilder has absolutely NO resume. To be honest, until we have better yardsticks he could be anything.
Take your pick from the top heavyweights from the Lewis area, Wilder would have got hit hard and a lot from the opening bell. It would not have been pretty.
My money - in fact my house - would be on both Tommy Morrison and Andrew Golota absolutely destroying Wilder in quick and brutal style.
You sure Mickey? Wilder has absolutely NO resume. To be honest, until we have better yardsticks he could be anything.
Take your pick from the top heavyweights from the Lewis area, Wilder would have got hit hard and a lot from the opening bell. It would not have been pretty.
My money - in fact my house - would be on both Tommy Morrison and Andrew Golota absolutely destroying Wilder in quick and brutal style.
You sure Mickey? Wilder has absolutely NO resume. To be honest, until we have better yardsticks he could be anything.
Take your pick from the top heavyweights from the Lewis area, Wilder would have got hit hard and a lot from the opening bell. It would not have been pretty.
My money - in fact my house - would be on both Tommy Morrison and Andrew Golota absolutely destroying Wilder in quick and brutal style.
I wouldn’t bet anything on Golota, he was fvckin nuts Definitely could have had a good chance of smashing Wilder, but equally good chance he’d have another mental breakdown
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 09:16
This heavyweight era is piss poor, hardly a controversial statement. It’s been utter crap since Lewis retired. The fact that someone so limited as Wilder as being heralded as one of the best of modern times says it all.
Wilder will go down as better than Berbick, Seldon, Smith, Spinks* and Bruno. *Spinks as a heavyweight.
You sure Mickey? Wilder has absolutely NO resume. To be honest, until we have better yardsticks he could be anything.
Definitely could have had a good chance of smashing Wilder, but equally good chance he’d have another mental breakdown