>>>I do know all thatt, trust me.<<<
I don't think you do...I would rather you tell me about it than trust you!
Here, give me a little info about the kind of fighters the following men were...can you do that? If you can I'll shut up, but only picking out the easy ones like, Strib, Risko, Uzcudun will not do...I want to know about Sekyra, Neusel, Hamas, Thomas, Foord and Dudas!
Joe Sekyra
Johnny Risko
Paolino Uzcudun
Jack Sharkey
Young Stribling
Walter Neusel
Steve Hamas
Harry Thomas
Ben Foord
Steve Dudas
Adolf Heuser
Best and worse heavyweight champs ?
I listed the WBO pretenders because that was the point of my original post. had I excluded them, the list would be different.
Just as if , had I chosen to confine it to the last 40 years, it would have been different still.
And if i had chosen to add the off off maintram sanctiong bodies champs, it would have looked different once again.
But hey, we now have 4 champions, and still NO champions.
Why ?
Lots of reasons
A head injury three years ago?
An arrest in Vegas, of a fighter who might have had an "Era" of his own had it not happend, and would have belonged on a top 10 list ?
The fact that still another heavyweight just is now getting off drugs and is training propery ? (probably too little too late)
The fact that a promoter named King hold a third of the division hostage?
The fact that two cable networks decide what the boxing public wants to see and not see?
yes....all these reasons, and more.
Just as if , had I chosen to confine it to the last 40 years, it would have been different still.
And if i had chosen to add the off off maintram sanctiong bodies champs, it would have looked different once again.
But hey, we now have 4 champions, and still NO champions.
Why ?
Lots of reasons
A head injury three years ago?
An arrest in Vegas, of a fighter who might have had an "Era" of his own had it not happend, and would have belonged on a top 10 list ?
The fact that still another heavyweight just is now getting off drugs and is training propery ? (probably too little too late)
The fact that a promoter named King hold a third of the division hostage?
The fact that two cable networks decide what the boxing public wants to see and not see?
yes....all these reasons, and more.
re
>>>just for the record, Both Suger (for what it's worth), and Ring magaizine have him on theirs<<<
Wasn't you just talking shit about Sugar...funny you would bring him up to try to validate your naming Tunney...and as to Ring...I can go back through the 80+ years of Ring and give you a different top ten all-time heavyweight list for every three years, or so...it's not Ring...it's the writer who compiled the list. And Ring changes they're mind every other year!
Wasn't you just talking shit about Sugar...funny you would bring him up to try to validate your naming Tunney...and as to Ring...I can go back through the 80+ years of Ring and give you a different top ten all-time heavyweight list for every three years, or so...it's not Ring...it's the writer who compiled the list. And Ring changes they're mind every other year!
You did see the for what it's worth after the Suger comment right ? 
And your statemant was, "you didnt know of anyone" who had them on their list, so you were wrong...on at least TWO counts
Anyway, quite a list you have there....the ones like Sharky are just too rediculous and easy...so i picked out a few intersting ones. Some there isnt much to talk about, but there are some interesting sidebars on them
Johnny Risko was a solid heavyweight from Ohio, beat some guys above his ability, but lost to some guys he should have beat. Had a hell of a comeback against Schmeling, but in the end, got decked. I wanna say three or four times at the end of the fight
Paulino Uzcudun,..He was listedd as Spanish, but he was really a french basque.
His claim to fame was KO ing Harry Willis, and getting muggged by Louis
Steve Dudas was a fighter who we will never know how good or bad he was, he was one of those fighter who had a reguler job while boxing for peanuts at night, although he had a decent amature career. He was the new jersy amatur chap at one point.
One of the old timers who was a family friend as a kid said he used to lead with his chin, But would hit you with his head, forearm and elbows if he had to, Fought way too long and too many fights.
Foord, not much to tell. Gerrie Coetzee’s idol, and he mentioned him in almost every interview I ever saw him give, fought some good fighters, Lost to pretty much all of them. Was mostly a gatekeeper.
Harry Thomas…again, not that much to talk about, a charter member of Louis’s bum of the month club. The only things interesting about him is that Two Ton Tony mugged him, and that he came from some small town in...I want to say Wisconsin ?
Ok, your turn,,let's see what YOu got...
Tell me a little about;.(pic a few if you like)
Joey DeJohn
Bo-Bo Olson
Mate Parlov
Alfredo Evangelista
Billy Backus (other then beating Napoles, which i already told you about))
Laurent Dauthuille
Freddie Mills
And your statemant was, "you didnt know of anyone" who had them on their list, so you were wrong...on at least TWO counts
Anyway, quite a list you have there....the ones like Sharky are just too rediculous and easy...so i picked out a few intersting ones. Some there isnt much to talk about, but there are some interesting sidebars on them
Johnny Risko was a solid heavyweight from Ohio, beat some guys above his ability, but lost to some guys he should have beat. Had a hell of a comeback against Schmeling, but in the end, got decked. I wanna say three or four times at the end of the fight
Paulino Uzcudun,..He was listedd as Spanish, but he was really a french basque.
His claim to fame was KO ing Harry Willis, and getting muggged by Louis
Steve Dudas was a fighter who we will never know how good or bad he was, he was one of those fighter who had a reguler job while boxing for peanuts at night, although he had a decent amature career. He was the new jersy amatur chap at one point.
One of the old timers who was a family friend as a kid said he used to lead with his chin, But would hit you with his head, forearm and elbows if he had to, Fought way too long and too many fights.
Foord, not much to tell. Gerrie Coetzee’s idol, and he mentioned him in almost every interview I ever saw him give, fought some good fighters, Lost to pretty much all of them. Was mostly a gatekeeper.
Harry Thomas…again, not that much to talk about, a charter member of Louis’s bum of the month club. The only things interesting about him is that Two Ton Tony mugged him, and that he came from some small town in...I want to say Wisconsin ?
Ok, your turn,,let's see what YOu got...
Tell me a little about;.(pic a few if you like)
Joey DeJohn
Bo-Bo Olson
Mate Parlov
Alfredo Evangelista
Billy Backus (other then beating Napoles, which i already told you about))
Laurent Dauthuille
Freddie Mills
re
Well for starters, I don't know what any of the fighters that you mention have to do with heavyweight boxing, much less how they relate to Max Schmeling, except heavyweight Evangelista being that he was a Spanish heavyweight, but I wish you could have made it a little challenging instead of listing former titlists, with the exception of DeJohn, Dauthuille and Evangelista and just generally pretty well-known boxers! Guys like Carl Olson and Freddie Mills have had thousands of articles written about them and In have read a lot of them and Mills has had a few books written about him. Backus and Parlov are not as well known, but there is still a hell of a lot of info written about them and aside from DeJohn and Dauthuille, the others are kids play…Parlov being the most obscure, that is obscure for the casual fan, me I know that he held a light heavyweight title and that he was also an Olympic Gold Medalist at light heavyweight!
As to DeJohn, well let me see…oh yeah, I have researched his career very, very, very thoroughly and I have researched the career’s of his brother’s very thoroughly as well. Joey DeJohn was a very hard-hitting middleweight who had some good wins, but it seemed that he had trouble when he stepped up against the A-Level fighters. His best win was probably against “Irish” Bob Murphy, which DeJohn was much the underdog mainly due to the fact that he was giving away 15+ pounds to Murphy. DeJohn had a pretty good rivalry with Pete Mead and he was a very solid top ten contender. The research that I have done on DeJohn is from Ring mag and the other boxing publications of the 40s and 50s, but the brunt of my research on him was done with the Syracuse newspapers of his day, mainly the Syracuse Post Standard and the Syracuse Herald Journal. I have report clippings for around 98% of all of his fights and in fact the record that I researched and compiled for Joey DeJohn was published in the IBRO Journal Issue #85…are you familiar with the IBRO? I would post that record that I have in word format here, but the format of Internet Forums looks terrible when copy and pasting a word formatted record, but I can scan the record from the IBRO Journal and post it if you like!
As to Dauthuille, I haven’t done a lot of research on him, but I certainly know who he was and what kind of fighter he was, best known for damn near winning the middleweight title, but instead he was knocked out in the final seconds of the last round against defending champ Jake LaMotta in what is now considered to be one of the classic knockouts in boxing history!
The funny thing is, I didn’t even have to glance back over any of the fighter’s records! Now maybe if you had listed some difficult names it might have been a little challenging and if you really want to stump me then it would be better to pick some fighters that fought before 1950, and also fighters that a person cannot just type they’re name into a search engine and find all the information the want about the guy…you’re going to need to produce some very obscure boxers from the past. Obscure overseas boxers would be the ticket to stump me since that I live in the U.S. my sources are limited to the amount of research that I can do on Foreign fighters, but even then you are going to be hard-pressed to stump me, but since you stretched naming fighters out of the heavyweights how about enlightening me about the following men, which you will be hard-pressed to find anything on the internet about:
Duke Tramel
Wildcat Monte
Melody Jackson
“Young” Eddie Williams---before you look there are about 30 different Eddie Williams’ in the database, but only one was well known by boxing aficionados!
Charley McKeever
Billy Stift
As to DeJohn, well let me see…oh yeah, I have researched his career very, very, very thoroughly and I have researched the career’s of his brother’s very thoroughly as well. Joey DeJohn was a very hard-hitting middleweight who had some good wins, but it seemed that he had trouble when he stepped up against the A-Level fighters. His best win was probably against “Irish” Bob Murphy, which DeJohn was much the underdog mainly due to the fact that he was giving away 15+ pounds to Murphy. DeJohn had a pretty good rivalry with Pete Mead and he was a very solid top ten contender. The research that I have done on DeJohn is from Ring mag and the other boxing publications of the 40s and 50s, but the brunt of my research on him was done with the Syracuse newspapers of his day, mainly the Syracuse Post Standard and the Syracuse Herald Journal. I have report clippings for around 98% of all of his fights and in fact the record that I researched and compiled for Joey DeJohn was published in the IBRO Journal Issue #85…are you familiar with the IBRO? I would post that record that I have in word format here, but the format of Internet Forums looks terrible when copy and pasting a word formatted record, but I can scan the record from the IBRO Journal and post it if you like!
As to Dauthuille, I haven’t done a lot of research on him, but I certainly know who he was and what kind of fighter he was, best known for damn near winning the middleweight title, but instead he was knocked out in the final seconds of the last round against defending champ Jake LaMotta in what is now considered to be one of the classic knockouts in boxing history!
The funny thing is, I didn’t even have to glance back over any of the fighter’s records! Now maybe if you had listed some difficult names it might have been a little challenging and if you really want to stump me then it would be better to pick some fighters that fought before 1950, and also fighters that a person cannot just type they’re name into a search engine and find all the information the want about the guy…you’re going to need to produce some very obscure boxers from the past. Obscure overseas boxers would be the ticket to stump me since that I live in the U.S. my sources are limited to the amount of research that I can do on Foreign fighters, but even then you are going to be hard-pressed to stump me, but since you stretched naming fighters out of the heavyweights how about enlightening me about the following men, which you will be hard-pressed to find anything on the internet about:
Duke Tramel
Wildcat Monte
Melody Jackson
“Young” Eddie Williams---before you look there are about 30 different Eddie Williams’ in the database, but only one was well known by boxing aficionados!
Charley McKeever
Billy Stift
Sorry I have to take issue with this statement Larry Gains was much more than a 'dime a dozen journeyman'. He was a good fighter, not great, but far more than just a journeyman.cosand wrote:A fighter who was knocked out by a fighter named Diekmen, in which Schmeling was his second opponent, (he went on to a 3-2-3 career record) losing to a barely alive Jack Taylor, and a dime a dozen journeyman named Larry Gains,
Have I read this right? Just because a fighter is from Europe it doesn't make him a poor fighter or a laughing stock. You could fill a book on great and good fighters who have come out of Europe over the years.cosand wrote:Schmeling beating European (lol)light heavyweights does not change the fact that he was one notch above a mediocre heavyweight,
-
BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
pundit should read this.But I don't know anyone, otrher than you that would have Gene Tunney in they're top ten, and I'm not talking about the casual fan, I'm talking about people that have researched boxing almost daily for upward of 50 years. And being that you seem to speak so much about the "big Picture" what did Tunney accomplish at heavyweight to make him rank 7 all-time, beating an old and faded Jack Dempsey...not much of a big picture there!
Have I read this right? Just because a fighter is from Europe it doesn't make him a poor fighter or a laughing stock. You could fill a book on great and good fighters who have come out of Europe over the years
My apologies for being unclear, but it was 3 in the morning at the time. What I meant to say we British ligght heavyweights from that era.
Hardly adequate credentials when trying to bolster the reputation of a hevevyweight on an all time list
My apologies for being unclear, but it was 3 in the morning at the time. What I meant to say we British ligght heavyweights from that era.
Hardly adequate credentials when trying to bolster the reputation of a hevevyweight on an all time list
Didn’t realize that boxing knowledge was measured by one’s insight only into the heavyweight division.
As for your answers, I noticed that you left out one of the most distinct pieces of info on DeJohn, and that is that his older Brother, Johnny, was Basillio’s trainer and co manager.
That is a story in itself. Johnny was a guy who barely got past the 10th grade, but he outsmarted the Boxing media, the boxing establishment at the time, the Mob, and Sugar Ray Robinson’s handlers. Forget all the media crap about Dundee shaping Carmen’s career. It was DeJohn, with some help from his co trainer, Joe Nitro, that had his back and who made all the back room deals, without which, Basillio would have been nothing more than a footnote in boxing history
Also surprised, since you claim to have done research is the Syracuse newspapers, that you gave no info on Billy Backus. Lots of interesting stories on him, above and beyond his upset over Napoles.
An electrician who boxed as a second income, the allegations of ties to the Buffalo mafia, etc. But then again, you say your expertise lies pretty much only in the heavyweight division right ?. So that’s understandable I guess.
As for Parlov, what I was looking for from you was for you to sight his most distinguishing claim to fame (Other then being a pro from eastern Europe prior to the end of the cold war) which was that he is widely believed to have had the hardest and most accurate left jab of any fighter in light heavyweight history. His jab was not a setup for a KO punch, it WAS a KO punch
As for Evangelista, one extra credit point for you knowing he was Spanish. It was widely believed he was an Argentine, and even ABC sports got that wrong during the coverage of his fight with Ali. He lived and trained in Argentina for several years, but was Spanish by birth and citizenship.
I didn’t look back at the Boxers records on boxrec or on line on your queries either until after I submitted the post. I avoided that intentionally just to test myself. That is how I came up with the correction of my own info on Thomas.
We could play boxing trivia for weeks if you like. We can both try to stump the other and hit and miss
But back to the original question, you and I will have to agree to disagree on Schmeling.
I say that when one looks at the big picture, he comes out low on the list of all time heavyweight champions. I will take it one step farther by saying that had it not been for the Drama surrounding the second Louis fight, (the Nazis must be stopped hype) Schmeling would be about as well known and regarded as a Billy Conn or a John Henry Lewis, except that he managed to win the title at a time when the division was in a lull.
As for this “lineal” champion thing. Wake up and smell the coffee. There are no lineal champions in the heavyweight division right now. Fighters being stripped of their title or relinquishing, and championships being passed down by paper and acclimation tainted ALL the title belts. Any real succession is LONG gone
The Alphabet soup is here and it is not going away. There are some spurious organizations, but the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, (ask Jeff Lacy) and even the IBO, for good or for bad, are with us to stay, at least for now.
If someone hands you a title bet, it is your till someone beats you, or they take it away. Sad but true. This goes for all the champions, even slugs like Morrison, Hyde and Bentt.
As for your answers, I noticed that you left out one of the most distinct pieces of info on DeJohn, and that is that his older Brother, Johnny, was Basillio’s trainer and co manager.
That is a story in itself. Johnny was a guy who barely got past the 10th grade, but he outsmarted the Boxing media, the boxing establishment at the time, the Mob, and Sugar Ray Robinson’s handlers. Forget all the media crap about Dundee shaping Carmen’s career. It was DeJohn, with some help from his co trainer, Joe Nitro, that had his back and who made all the back room deals, without which, Basillio would have been nothing more than a footnote in boxing history
Also surprised, since you claim to have done research is the Syracuse newspapers, that you gave no info on Billy Backus. Lots of interesting stories on him, above and beyond his upset over Napoles.
An electrician who boxed as a second income, the allegations of ties to the Buffalo mafia, etc. But then again, you say your expertise lies pretty much only in the heavyweight division right ?. So that’s understandable I guess.
As for Parlov, what I was looking for from you was for you to sight his most distinguishing claim to fame (Other then being a pro from eastern Europe prior to the end of the cold war) which was that he is widely believed to have had the hardest and most accurate left jab of any fighter in light heavyweight history. His jab was not a setup for a KO punch, it WAS a KO punch
As for Evangelista, one extra credit point for you knowing he was Spanish. It was widely believed he was an Argentine, and even ABC sports got that wrong during the coverage of his fight with Ali. He lived and trained in Argentina for several years, but was Spanish by birth and citizenship.
I didn’t look back at the Boxers records on boxrec or on line on your queries either until after I submitted the post. I avoided that intentionally just to test myself. That is how I came up with the correction of my own info on Thomas.
We could play boxing trivia for weeks if you like. We can both try to stump the other and hit and miss
But back to the original question, you and I will have to agree to disagree on Schmeling.
I say that when one looks at the big picture, he comes out low on the list of all time heavyweight champions. I will take it one step farther by saying that had it not been for the Drama surrounding the second Louis fight, (the Nazis must be stopped hype) Schmeling would be about as well known and regarded as a Billy Conn or a John Henry Lewis, except that he managed to win the title at a time when the division was in a lull.
As for this “lineal” champion thing. Wake up and smell the coffee. There are no lineal champions in the heavyweight division right now. Fighters being stripped of their title or relinquishing, and championships being passed down by paper and acclimation tainted ALL the title belts. Any real succession is LONG gone
The Alphabet soup is here and it is not going away. There are some spurious organizations, but the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, (ask Jeff Lacy) and even the IBO, for good or for bad, are with us to stay, at least for now.
If someone hands you a title bet, it is your till someone beats you, or they take it away. Sad but true. This goes for all the champions, even slugs like Morrison, Hyde and Bentt.
re
>>>As for your answers, I noticed that you left out one of the most distinct pieces of info on DeJohn<<<
I left out a lot of shit...there wasn't anything challenging about those well-known boxers that you listed...they were easy-pickings and the kind of names that I might give to someone that had just became interested in boxing and claims like Parlov having the most accurate jab in light heavyweight history is silly nonsense as there is nothing fact about claims like that.
Now are you going to enlighten me about the fighters I listed, or can you?
I left out a lot of shit...there wasn't anything challenging about those well-known boxers that you listed...they were easy-pickings and the kind of names that I might give to someone that had just became interested in boxing and claims like Parlov having the most accurate jab in light heavyweight history is silly nonsense as there is nothing fact about claims like that.
Now are you going to enlighten me about the fighters I listed, or can you?
claims like Parlov having the most accurate jab in light heavyweight history is silly nonsense as there is nothing fact about claims like that.
Are you KIDDING me ????? And just when i was giving you credit for knowing some things !
Parlovs jab was legendary and feared by his opponents.
He literally broke Cuello's face with it, No, I don't mean he just hurt him, he Litterally broke bones his face with a singgle left jab in the 9th round.
In other fights, he would throw the jab and land with (this was before comubox mind you) 60 to 70% accuracy
You see, (no offense) but this is the difference between someone like yourself he reads and gleens info on Boxing, and those of us who KNOW boxing.
Things like Parlov's jab, The story of the Johnny DeJohn, The real story behind Billy Backus's win over Napoles are esotaric facts, but those of us who live, eat sleep and breathe the sport, know these things.
I dont have to go to the internet or newspaper clipings to know these things. I grew up hanging out in a Gym on Water street in Syracuse NY. My dad was a middlweight with 24 pro fights. I fought in the golden gloves and had 3 pro fights myself. WAY too much info here for Anonymity sake, but you get the idea.
As for your list, I know a couple of things about a few of them, but this triva contest id senseless. trust me, I could throw names, even heavyweights at you that you would neither know, or find any info on the internet (Greg Sorentino, Levi Forte, Dave Zyglewicz, etc) and we could go on and on.
The fact that you question the infamy of parlov’s jab, a given amoung those who really know the sport, tells me all I need to know. Not that you don’t know some things about boxing, you clearly do. But there is a difference between knowing some things about boxing, and KNOWING boxing
Are you KIDDING me ????? And just when i was giving you credit for knowing some things !
Parlovs jab was legendary and feared by his opponents.
He literally broke Cuello's face with it, No, I don't mean he just hurt him, he Litterally broke bones his face with a singgle left jab in the 9th round.
In other fights, he would throw the jab and land with (this was before comubox mind you) 60 to 70% accuracy
You see, (no offense) but this is the difference between someone like yourself he reads and gleens info on Boxing, and those of us who KNOW boxing.
Things like Parlov's jab, The story of the Johnny DeJohn, The real story behind Billy Backus's win over Napoles are esotaric facts, but those of us who live, eat sleep and breathe the sport, know these things.
I dont have to go to the internet or newspaper clipings to know these things. I grew up hanging out in a Gym on Water street in Syracuse NY. My dad was a middlweight with 24 pro fights. I fought in the golden gloves and had 3 pro fights myself. WAY too much info here for Anonymity sake, but you get the idea.
As for your list, I know a couple of things about a few of them, but this triva contest id senseless. trust me, I could throw names, even heavyweights at you that you would neither know, or find any info on the internet (Greg Sorentino, Levi Forte, Dave Zyglewicz, etc) and we could go on and on.
The fact that you question the infamy of parlov’s jab, a given amoung those who really know the sport, tells me all I need to know. Not that you don’t know some things about boxing, you clearly do. But there is a difference between knowing some things about boxing, and KNOWING boxing
re
>>>Parlovs jab was legendary and feared by his opponents.<<<
I guess that's why he was such a dominant light heavyweight champion...right? LOL!!! And you call Max Schmeling bad...LOL!
Just because your dad fought, sorry but that doesn't mean that you know anything, which from your lists at the beginning and the responses since...it's pretty obvious that you don't know much...you're dad might, but you don't seem to!
As to you knowing boxing...well with your excuses dodging the fighters I listed for you to enlighten me on, it would seem that you simply know that you have no idea about those guys, but that's understandable...the fighters that I mentioned you simply will not be able to type they're name into a search engine and easily find info about them on the net...no...for the fighters I listed you would really have to know something about boxing history to know who they are, but since you have now twice dodged the issue I think we can safely assume that you just don't have a clue as to what you are talking about!
I guess that's why he was such a dominant light heavyweight champion...right? LOL!!! And you call Max Schmeling bad...LOL!
Just because your dad fought, sorry but that doesn't mean that you know anything, which from your lists at the beginning and the responses since...it's pretty obvious that you don't know much...you're dad might, but you don't seem to!
As to you knowing boxing...well with your excuses dodging the fighters I listed for you to enlighten me on, it would seem that you simply know that you have no idea about those guys, but that's understandable...the fighters that I mentioned you simply will not be able to type they're name into a search engine and easily find info about them on the net...no...for the fighters I listed you would really have to know something about boxing history to know who they are, but since you have now twice dodged the issue I think we can safely assume that you just don't have a clue as to what you are talking about!
Looks to me like you are the googgle master in this conversation barry ole boy.
Of the fighters I mentioned, the ones you claimed were "easy pickins", the best you could do is talk about how "well known" they were, and then post the standared do a thumbnail scratch that one could fine in the first three listings off a Google search.
Mentioning DeJohn and naming his fights that can be had off a search and not mentioningg his family story, and metioning Parlov without mentioning, and even questioning his lethal jab, is the earmark of a wannabe histrorian. mentioning Backus and again, how 'easy" that was, and then offering zero info, makes the point even stronger.
if you notice, with your firsty list, I gave details. names, little known facts and corrected misconception, stuff not found on the internet.
Again, I never said Schmeling was "bad', what i said was, and what history shows, is the when set against the backdrop of other heavyweight champs, he is way down on the list. And also, that evn the fame he has, is a result of a fight that was more symbolic then important as a fight.
Louis gave Scmelling his legacy, and that legacy is a loss, and that speaks volumes
If you go back and look, I didnt have Schmeling at the bottom of my list, i had him where he belongs, about tenth from the bottom.
I say again, knowing these things is the difference between those who are interesting in boxing, and thiose who KNOW boxing.
You sir, are the former rather then the latter.
-
pundit
- Heavyweight
Re: I'm dizzy from the Spin
I see Decagon and Barry have tried to explain this to you calmly, but seems they have run out of patience.cosand wrote:Sorry, but you historical review and spin of Schmelings career didn’t change my mind, or the reality of the issue.
A fighter who was knocked out by a fighter named Diekmen, in which Schmeling was his second opponent, (he went on to a 3-2-3 career record) losing to a barely alive Jack Taylor, and a dime a dozen journeyman named Larry Gains, along with 3 draws, all in his first 18 fights?
Later, after beating a lineup of the walking dead, he gets KOed in 1 by Gipsy Danials?
Still later, the referee steps in and saves him from certain death at the hands of Max Bear, this after a loss to another bottom of the heap champ, Jack Sharkey?
Yup….bottom 10 heavyweight champ for SURE..
So let me chip in.
-- why do you make so much out of Schmeling's fights as a total greenhorn? Noone would argue that Schmeling achieved world class before 1929.
- yalking about the period from 1929, what about Schmeling's win over #1 ranked US heavyweight Johnny Risko, who he forced to give up?
- his total domination of top contender Paolino Uzcudun?
- his knockout win over #1 contender and HOFer Young Stribling in 1931, who had never been knocked down before?
- the fact that from 1931-33 Schmeling was widely considered the best heayweight in the world?
- as for Jack Sharkey, you surely know that the 1932 "loss" was widely considered a robbery?
- besides, what is Jack Sharkey doing on your list of "worst heavyweights" anyway? The man who toyed with the great Jack Dempsey for seven rounds? Who topped the heavyweight rankings for several years?
- what is wrong with losing to HOFer Max Baer? Would you rank Schmeling higher if his career had been protected like, say, Nikolay Valuev's?
- besides, you probably also know that Schmeling himself said he fell into a hole between end-1933 and end-1934. Or don't you?
- may I ask what you make of Schmeling's KO win over Joe Louis in 1936?
Btw, if Sharkey, Carnera and Schmeling all make it to your list, where is Jim Braddock?
Cheers, P
When Max Schmeling entered the ring with Joe Louis he was a former undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World for two years. So he belonged in this ring with Louis like Carnera and Baer the year before did. And in comparison to them he won that fight.cosand wrote:Schmeling had the fight of his life against Lewis. Nothing he did before or after showed that he even belonged in the same ring with him.
before that fight he kayoed top-10 fighters Johnny Risko, Young Stribling, Mickey Walker, Walter Neusel, Steve Hamas
after that fight he kayoed top-10 fighters Harry Thomas and Adolf Heuser (winning the European Heavyweight Title)
So including Louis Max Schmeling knocked out 8 Top-Ten Fighters (3 of them Hall of Famers) in his Career and that mostly on foreign soil!
Schmeling dropped Risko in round 1 for the first time...and again in Rds. 7, 8 and 9.cosand wrote: Johnny Risko was a solid heavyweight from Ohio, beat some guys above his ability, but lost to some guys he should have beat. Had a hell of a comeback against Schmeling, but in the end, got decked. I wanna say three or four times at the end of the fight