Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

The Other Poor Man's Out

You'd think with all the poverty and desolation I've been writing about the past few days you'd think that maybe this homeless quarter would be a prime prospect for a boxing gym. The area used to have boxing gyms before it turned to s--t. But I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to open a boxing gym amid this train wreck.

Gato Gonxalez had a gym on Logan Avenue.There was Spud Murphy's gym on Broadway and 11th. Then of course there was The Coliseum open during the afternoons with Burke Emery taking charge of the hopefuls.Those places are long gone.

But seriously, the homeless that dwell on the streets are no more likely to find that poor man's out in boxing when they can get a monthly paycheck from the state ranging from 800 to a thousand dollars a month ,and a debit card, with free medical.They can tell a doctor that they've got some pain or mental depression and get a prescription for something that will keep them loaded all day,and for a kicker there's the neighborhood liquor store on the corner of 16th and Island that has plenty of pints of cheap vodka and rotgut wine on the shelves.If sex becomes an obsession there's plenty of freebies walking around no price asked.

Boxing? That's rich. Get in shape and become a fighter.Go to the gym and train everyday.Run 5 miles every morning .Abstain from drugs and alcohol. Get punched in the head.

I remember when any unsavory character would walk inside one of the the gyms I mentioned above. He'd immediately get a free boxing lesson.and then find himself with a few teeth missing lying prone on the sidewalk outside. I guess you could call that a poor man's out.Out to the street that is.



Gato Gonzalez's old gym on Logan Avenue.

[dagosd2000]

Recalling Carlos Ortiz

I met Carlos Ortiz at one of the World Boxing Hall Of Fame events in Inglewood,CA.He was there with his wife ,and Gaspar Ortega and his better half. Since I was chummy with Ortega I got to get into a dialapgue with Carlos. I didn't want to jump in with both feet with the standard boxing questions but it didn't take long for Ortiz to give me his take on the current state of prizefighting.
"Today's fighters are horrible," exclaimed Ortiz getting right to the point.
He was dressed smartly and was amiable enough but seemed a little uptight.Ortega on the other hand was a lot more relaxed.Ortiz had a bar in The Apple and Ortega didn't have to pay for a drink in Carlos' watering hole.
"The fighter's today just don't have the skills and dedication like they did back in my day. "
Ok.So he as talking about today's fighters meaning what was climbing through the ropes in 2010.

I remember the night Ortiz won the lightweight title from Joe Brown back in 1962 in Las Vegas. Talk about a real stinker.Brown didn't throw a punch.He lost every round.There was a moment when he slipped to the canvas and was laughing.Ring Magazine ran the story of the fight with the headline,"Were The Cards Stacked In Las Vegas?"They had to be.

Ortiz being Puerto Rican,along with Jose Torres,was a natural to bring in the fight crowd in New York City.The U.S. territory honed for residency in New York during the 50's and 60's.

Ortiz was a good fighter no doubt about that ,but he could be had. He made the mistake of fighting Dulio Loi twice in Spaghettiland and came up short both times.Ortiz traveled to Panama and lost to Ismael Laguna.He lost the crown to Ismael but got it back when the rematch was in San Juan.

In an upset Carlos Teo Cruz finally ended Ortiz's reign as the 135 champ by decision in Teo's Dominican Republic.When Cruz died in an airplane crash the lightweight title was up for grabs.But Ortiz was left out of the mix.He ran up 10 straight wins and seemed like he might get another shot but then Ken Buchanan made him not come out for the 6th round in their fight in Madison Square Garden.Carlos wisely retired after that one.The only time he couldn't finish.

Ortiz died last year at the age of 85.Ken Buchanan died last week.Maybe Ortiz had a point about what he said to me in 2010. Looking back on some of the guys he fought they certainly weren't no weak sister:Kenny Lane,Paolo Rosi.Ismael Laguna,Flash Elorde.Battling Torres,Cisco Andrade,Sugar Ramos,Doug Vaillant,Ken Buchanan,and Joe brown.

We could sure use the likes of those kind of fighters again.


A natty Carlos Ortiz at the WBHOF



Ken Buchanan

[dagosd2000]

It's A Wonderful Life

I remember the time Ruben Navarro fought Ken Buchanan for the lightweight title in LA on three days notice.The papers said that Mando Ramos,who was supposed to face Buchanan that night, had to cancel due to an "injury." Navarro,known as "the Maravilla Kid" because that's where he called home in the East LA barrio,looked like he wanted to last with the Scot and succeeded. "Maravilla" meaning "wonderful" in English may be a misnomer depending who you're talking to. If it's someone who lives in "Maravilla" then you better be fixed to defend your position.Anyway, Navarro showed up.He said was in more or less good shape.He was in preparations to fight Jimmy Robertson. Dan Hanley did a great interview with "The Wonderful One'"that you can see on the internet and that fight is talked about. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Mando had the clap if Navarro said so. All those Chicano fighters in the city Of Angels knew each other pretty well and they were no angels.They fought each other;Trained with each other; and got f---ed up together.You can watch the fight on YouTube, but who ever held the camera forgot to clean the lens.It's like watching a fight outside in a blizzard.

Navarro was inducted into the West Coast Boxing Hall Of fame a few years ago. When he got up to make his speech he was pretty funny.He had the audience laughing.After he stepped down with his award he saw Rodolfo Gonzalez sitting at the same table were I was at.They had fought each other back in the day.He went over to give "Gato" a hug but Gonzalez pushed him away. Navarro reacted a little surprised. I don't think "Gato" was upset that much as he that didn't want to interact with Navarro. I never saw Gonzalez at one of those banquets mingle with any of the ex pugs.

"Gato" ,I've head through the grapevine, now lives with his son in Arizona.I don't think he'll be going to anymore boxing conventions,at nat not in LA. Navarro will not have to be worried about getting the cold shoulder anymore.


Ruben Navarro

[dagosd2000]

A Short Happy Life

Tex Rickard was riding a crest of a wave in the fight promotion business. It seemed like his cash cow Jack Dempsey had been sent to pasture after losing to Gene Tunney twice, but Rickard had other "livestock" grazing and getting fat. He was handling promotions of the cream of the crop of the boxing circuit during the Roaring 20's.Benny Leonard,Luis Firpo,Harry Wills,and of course there was still Tunney with his feet in the fire. Before that who could forget Johnson and Jeffries in Reno? Rickard was part owner in the "new" Madison Square Garden in New York City that spawned another seven other Madison Square Gardens in other parts of the country.

It seemed everything Rickard touched he did with a Midas finger.He struck it rich in Alaska with it's gold rush.He owned hundred of thousands of acres in South Americas raising cattle for future dinner tables. He ran kennel clubs and Jai Alai arenas in Florida.

With the world in the palm of his hand, including a movie starlet wife 33 years his junior ,Rickard was lining up a fight between Jack Sharkey and Young Stribling for the vacant heavyweight title(Tunney retiring after beating Tom Heeney)when he was hit with an attack of appendicitis. He died on the operating table.

When Dempsey was to fight Tunney the second time in Chicago,Al Capone wanted to "fix" the fight by bribing Dempsey saying if he could get Tunney to "lay down" then the rubber match would be the world's biggest money maker for everyone including Rickard. The carrot was dangled at my grandfather's Bella Napoli restaurant.But Capone's proposition was a joke. Tunney would never go for it.And besides, Dempsey didn't want to fight anymore. My grandfather ,Diamond Joe,knew Rickard and said that Capone was a little "pazzo" to even think of something like that.

Rickard didn't need to "fix" any fights to make an extra buck.He as rolling in dough.Too bad he didn't live longer to enjoy it.


ex Rickard

[dagosd2000]

A Spicy Meatball

Al Capone would eat his spaghetti dinner every night in Diamond Joe Esposito's,my grandfather,Bella Napoli restaurant on Halsted Street. One day the chef was approached by one of Bugs Moran's people about putting prussic acid in Al's linguini. He'd get a tip of 10 grand to add a little of the hot sauce..Well, Chef Boy R Dee ran to Capone to tell him of the bribe. Capone probably laughed it off. Moran ,not being a mental giant,couldn't figure a smarter way to do away with his rival?


My grandfather,Diamond Joe

[dagosd2000]

Young Dying Young

If Young Stribling hadn't died from that motorcycle accident in 1933 when he was 28 years old he would have gone on to eventually establish the all time number of KO wins.Archie Moore holds that record with something like 140 something. "Strib",as his fans called him, finished with 129, good enough for the runner up.

Born in rural southern Georgia in a family of traveling circus people, Strib was a handsome cuss and had an amiable manner like a hound dog with a stack of bones.A devout Christian, Strib took up prizefighting when he was still in high school. With his peachy good looks and a chin that sprouted peach fuzz, he traveled the south in the family buss,and later in his own aero plane fighting in every burg from Mayberry to Petticoat Junction. He wasn't timid about puttin' the gloves on.His record shows 291 bouts participated during a career of only 12 years. In one of those years he fought a record 55 times.

He began a little shaver starting at featherweight but ate enough grits and possum to build his body up with big boys.Now granted most of his competition was fellas who had got off their John Deeres after plowin' the fields(or maybe their hordes) in the afternoon and then moseyed over to the state fair to try their luck with Strib.

But not all of Strib's fights were against Lil' Abners.I can't say he scored a major victory against a renown pug unless you call his draw with Mike McTigue his high watermark. He just cottoned to fight what was on hand in the countryside.He lost to Jack Sharkey on points in Florida ,and Herr Max finally wore him down to stop him in the 15th frame in Cleveland.That was a title match.

I don't know too much about this fella Strib.He was popular wherever he fought. He was like a curiosity piece. Here was a guy ,as southern as a mint julep, who refused to fight negros.Maybe he thought his white fan base would back off him if he did. It was a period below the Mason-Dixon Line where the South was still fighting the Civil War. After Bobby Lee said to his Army Of Virginia they had given their all and told them to return to what was left of their homes,arose Jim Crow,Black Codes,The Klan,and lynchings that the town folk could gather and see if Young Stribling wasn't squaring off in the town square against the local bully.. Maybe that was why he had so many fights.

[dagosd2000]

The Citrus Champ

The first heavyweight champion of the world(1719?) was named after a fruit,James Figg. Now I guess he didn't want to be mentioned in the same breath with a Fig Newton so he put an extra "g" on the end of his name.Still, when you say his last name you don't know if there's an added "g" unless you look at his signature. I guess if you read it with the extra "g" it gives him more class.(maybe)I've seen some English dudes with the last name of "Pigg."Get my drift?

Figgy was an English bloke.They say his greatest rival was Edward Sutton,a a tobacco pipe maker(You got to watch out for those tobacco pipe makers.They can be a real pain the the arse))I can't find out who Figg fought to establish himself as the champ nor why they came up with wanting to have a world title in the first place.

Figg fought implementing various weapons:short swords,quarterstaffs,and cudgels.I don't know what any of those weapons look like but I bet they could really f--k you up even though they have those fancy Brit names.But if this was Figg's way of fighting, hell,he might as well try his luck with those WWE cats. I think this was before the Marquess Of Queensberry Rules.

Since Figg was the first heavyweight champion of the world he should be getting a lot more press.Even make a movie about him.(If Tyson Fury wants to make a little side money there you go!)

Figg was inducted into the first Ring Magazine HOF in 1954. His name appears in the "Pioneer "group in the IBHOF.I think I'll give Rick Farris a jingle about getting Figg into The West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame. But I don't think Figg ever fought out here on the west coast unless Westminster Abbey is somewhere in Southern California.


James Figg

[dagosd2000]

The Dawn Patrol

"Did you hear about Gilbert Baptist?"asked Burke Emery as he went behind the bar to start his night shift at O'Brian's.
"No.What's up?"I asked as I was finishing off my beer.
"He's going to fight McClellan tomorrow night for the title."
As Burke was explaining, his girlfriend Shirley grabbed a stool next to mine.The owner of the bar wanted out and he knew he had Burke and Shirley on the hook.
"I thought McClellan was lined up to fight this Parks guy,"I asked.
"He flunked his physical yesterday."
"Yeah,but that's pretty short notice.Have you talked to Gilbert?"
"I phoned him last night before he flew to Vegas.He says he's been in the gym.He thinks he can win."
"I know he fought Parks not too long ago and gave him a run before he was stopped late in the fight.But that's still asking a lot."
"McClellan looks pretty unbeatable right now.I thought maybe he talked to you.I know you knew him from the probation department."
"Well,let's keep our fingers crossed,"I said.
"You never know what's gong to happen,"said Burke as he topped off my glass.

I saw the fight on TV.Gilbert was in way over his head.It didn't last a round.In fact McClellan hit Gilbert so hard that on his way down he broke his leg.Gilbert retired after that.


I saw Gilbert at the school where i was teaching and coaching football.This was abut a month after he fought McClellan. Gilbert's foot was in a cast.He was there with his son who was still a little guy then.Gilbert was following up on some kid that was on his probation list.I said "hi" to his son.I didn't ask Gilbert about the fight, and didn't even ask him about his leg.He asked me how the football team was shaping up for the upcoming season,and then he asked me where to find the classroom this kid he was looking for was in.I told him how to find the room and then went out to the practice field.




The old sign in front of Champs.They've got a new one after Burke died.The new one doesn't have a fighter on it.

[goose 5]

Hi Roger:
When you were lifting, did you ever lift with any pro wrestlers ?

[dagosd2000]

Hi Roger:
When you were lifting, did you ever lift with any pro wrestlers ?

Funny you should ask.Back then (60's,early 70's)wrestlers didn't lift weights. The wrestlers who wrestled at The Coliseum like Freddie Blassie and Mr. Moto didn't lift weights.It was still an exercise mainly for body builders and power lifters. It was just starting to make move with football.

The only time I lifted weights with a pro wrestler(or any wrestler) was in Tijuana when i was coaching American football down there. The two wrestlers that I worked out with weren't very strong with the iron however they were impressed with my lifting.They invited me to the Municipal Auditorium to try out being a wrestler.As bad as they were lifting weights, I was just as bad trying to be a wrestler.Mexican wrestling is very acrobatic.I wasn't cut out to do all those flips and jumping off the ropes.BTW.Those Mexican wrestlers I worked out with never took off their masks.



My granddaughter's husband is a wrestling promoter in Tijuana.Here was one of his shows.

[dagosd2000]

Press A Weight,Get No Lift

Question was asked to me if I had ever lifted weights with a pro wrestler. Until the mid 80's ,or around, weight lifting was a taboo in the sports world unless you were a bodybuilder(which isn't a sport or an "Olympic"weightlifter that is) When I began lifting weights in the early 60's unless you worked out in your buddy's garage the gyms were all little mom and pop joints.There were no 24 Hour Fitness or LA Fitness self contained spas that came with swimming pools,saunas,and every type of electronic cardio machine imaginable. There were no split tails in a gym either.

Believe it or not the San Diego Chargers football team was the first pro team to have a mandatory weightlifting program implemented by its coaching staff. This was back in 1962. Coach Sid Gilman made his players work out at a gym at the foot of Broadway named Lloyd's Gym. The instructor was a body builder,who was a Mr. San Diego,named Ralph Kroger.The gym was upstairs from a record store named Lloyd's Music City. The gym and the record store was a hangout for mostly swabbies.

Well ,my football coach at Point Loma High School said if it was good enough for the Chargers it was good enough for his team. So the team had to enroll downtown at Lloyd's Gym and train with the Chargers.With the exception of Ron Mix and maybe one or two other Chargers nobody that signed up had ever lifted a weight.It wasn't so bad with us high school kids not being able to lift much but to see a pro lineman like Ernie Ladd,who weighed over 300 pounds, not being able to bench press 200 hundred pounds was kind of funny.

Ralph Kroger pushed everyone pretty hard.He was one of those iron lifters who believed if you didn't lift weights you were, in the vernacular of the later Arnold,"A Girly Man." The result of Kroger's expertise was that he had us lifting like a body builder:heavy deep squats and exercises that had the intent to shape our bodies to ape the statue of David.The result was the Chargers and the high school athletes all wound up having pulled hamstrings,torn muscles,and cartilage problems.

Of course weight training is different today.it seems that each sport has its particular regimen. But I don't want to get into that.I want to shift over to what kind of impact weightlifting had on boxing-which was very little. if there was a sport out there that stayed away from weights it was boxing. Trainers wouldn't let their fighters lift weights.There were no weights in a boxing gym.Weight training was believed to make a fighter musclebound and slow his speed, and there's a lot of truth in that.You don't see fighters entering the ring with 20 inch arms.That doesn't translate into the power of a punch.Joe Louis could hit harder than anybody and he didn't have Arnold arms.

Hey,I want to wind this up taking a shot at Arnold.Here was a guy who was in love with himself. He won all those Mr. Universe titles,and granted he trained hard, but if it wasn't for all the steroids he gobbled up he wouldn't have won nothing.I've always said he can attribute his future fame as a movie star and financial wealth because he was a roid freak.

The thing about Arnold was he couldn't play a sport because he was an uncoordinated oaf trying put all those muscles to use. He was the ultimate narcissist. He'd be posing in his marble baggers like he was the epitome of manhood.The irony was that taking all those roids made his balls shrink because they didn't have to produce testosterone anymore.There were the roids that took took over for his mangos.

So there he is up on some stand flexing in his marble baggers with his 20 inch arms, smiling ear to ear, and you could tell his winky was the size of a sunflower seed. He's calling others "Girly Men" and it looks like he's packing a clitoris.



The original Girly Man

[goose 5]

Great info, Roger; thanks. Did Ray Stevens ever wrestle in San Diego ? He was huge in Northern California.

[dagosd2000]

Great info, Roger; thanks. Did Ray Stevens ever wrestle in San Diego ? He was huge in Northern California.

I don't remember him wrestling at The Coliseum.We got a steady diet of Freddie Blassie,Mr. Moto,Ricki Starr,Edouard Carpentier,Ernie Ladd,Don Manoukian,The Destroyer,and one time Andre The Giant made an appearance.

[Joson]

A Spicy Meatball

Al Capone would eat his spaghetti dinner every night in Diamond Joe Esposito's,my grandfather,Bella Napoli restaurant on Halsted Street. One day the chef was approached by one of Bugs Moran's people about putting prussic acid in Al's linguini. He'd get a tip of 10 grand to add a little of the hot sauce..Well, Chef Boy R Dee ran to Capone to tell him of the bribe. Capone probably laughed it off. Moran ,not being a mental giant,couldn't figure a smarter way to do away with his rival?


My grandfather,Diamond Joe

Wow...so Diamond Joe was really your grandfather? From Chicago. A great mob book I read was The Last Mafioso: The Treacherous World of Jimmy Fratianno. The book contained lots of info about The Outfit from Chicago, which of course appeared decades after Diamond Joe's heyday.

But Fratianno's book had a lot to say about the Southern California mob too. Guys like Frank Bompensiero, Jack Dragna, and Dominic Brooklier. Fascinating stuff.

I'm sure you heard what Fratianno had to say about Bonavena's shooting in Las Vegas in 1976. Question is, was Fratianno telling the truth?

[dagosd2000]

A Spicy Meatball

Al Capone would eat his spaghetti dinner every night in Diamond Joe Esposito's,my grandfather,Bella Napoli restaurant on Halsted Street. One day the chef was approached by one of Bugs Moran's people about putting prussic acid in Al's linguini. He'd get a tip of 10 grand to add a little of the hot sauce..Well, Chef Boy R Dee ran to Capone to tell him of the bribe. Capone probably laughed it off. Moran ,not being a mental giant,couldn't figure a smarter way to do away with his rival?


My grandfather,Diamond Joe

Wow...so Diamond Joe was really your grandfather? From Chicago. A great mob book I read was The Last Mafioso: The Treacherous World of Jimmy Fratianno. The book contained lots of info about The Outfit from Chicago, which of course appeared decades after Diamond Joe's heyday.

But Fratianno's book had a lot to say about the Southern California mob too. Guys like Frank Bompensiero, Jack Dragna, and Dominic Brooklier. Fascinating stuff.

I'm sure you heard what Fratianno had to say about Bonavena's shooting in Las Vegas in 1976. Question is, was Fratianno telling the truth?

That Joe Conforte put a contract out on him for screwing his wife?I don't know. I do know that Frank The Bomp was killed by Tony "The Ant" Spilotro for being a snitch.He was shot while he was in a telephone booth in Pacific Beach in San Diego..My father was getting a steam bath at The Stardust Hotel in Mission Valley when Spilotro walked in and told my father that he was the boss now and to do what he was told.My father replied that his boss was Sam Giancana.The Ant walked out and that was the end of it.

My grandfather groomed most of the future Dons in The Outfit when they were starting out:Capone,Nitti,Giancana,Ricca,After my grandfather was gunned down as he was walking home from a union meeting my father lived in Capone's house for two years.His wife,Mae,complained that my father was a bad influence on their son Al Jr. who they called Sonny.



Diaamond Joe's summer home in Bass Lake,Indiana. He named it "May Villa" after his wife,my grandmother.

[Joson]

A Spicy Meatball

Al Capone would eat his spaghetti dinner every night in Diamond Joe Esposito's,my grandfather,Bella Napoli restaurant on Halsted Street. One day the chef was approached by one of Bugs Moran's people about putting prussic acid in Al's linguini. He'd get a tip of 10 grand to add a little of the hot sauce..Well, Chef Boy R Dee ran to Capone to tell him of the bribe. Capone probably laughed it off. Moran ,not being a mental giant,couldn't figure a smarter way to do away with his rival?


My grandfather,Diamond Joe

Wow...so Diamond Joe was really your grandfather? From Chicago. A great mob book I read was The Last Mafioso: The Treacherous World of Jimmy Fratianno. The book contained lots of info about The Outfit from Chicago, which of course appeared decades after Diamond Joe's heyday.

But Fratianno's book had a lot to say about the Southern California mob too. Guys like Frank Bompensiero, Jack Dragna, and Dominic Brooklier. Fascinating stuff.

I'm sure you heard what Fratianno had to say about Bonavena's shooting in Las Vegas in 1976. Question is, was Fratianno telling the truth?

That Joe Conforte put a contract out on him for screwing his wife?I don't know. I do know that Frank The Bomp was killed by Tony "The Ant" Spilotro for being a snitch.He was shot while he was in a telephone booth in Pacific Beach in San Diego..My father was getting a steam bath at The Stardust Hotel in Mission Valley when Spilotro walked in and told my father that he was the boss now and to do what he was told.My father replied that his boss was Sam Giancana.The Ant walked out and that was the end of it.

My grandfather groomed most of the future Dons in The Outfit when they were starting out:Capone,Nitti,Giancana,Ricca,After my grandfather was gunned down as he was walking home from a union meeting my father lived in Capone's house for two years.His wife,Mae,complained that my father was a bad influence on their son Al Jr. who they called Sonny.



Diaamond Joe's summer home in Bass Lake,Indiana. He named it "May Villa" after his wife,my grandmother.

Tony the Ant. Yeah, I could lose myself for hours on end reading about him. Fascinating mob stuff. I heard The Ant had lots of Hollywood friends. He really got around.

But in the end, The Ant crossed the wrong people. We all know what that led to.

Then of course there was Joey "The Clown" Lombardo. From the way he handled himself in public, you'd think the guy was just a buffoon. Little did the world know that, in truth, The Clown was dead serious. A ruthless and effective mob boss. Just goes to show that you can't judge a book by it's cover.

[dagosd2000]

..
.

You seem fascinated by all this Mafia s--t.All I heard all my life from my father was stories about Al Capone and the rest of those Outfit guys.He wanted to be like his father but fell short.Instead of earning an honest living he was always on the take and the make.He should have written a book.My mother was sick and tired of it.Finally,I got sick of it.It's like all this organized crime stuff with these greaseballs was a a feather in the cap of Italians.The Godfather movie got the Itaiians off the streets with their monkeys and organs into a realm of royalty.But all these hoods either got killed or died in jail.They were dope dealers,pimps,murderers,and extortionists.Something really to be proud of. I used to take a pride in it-what my grandfather was like,but all in all he was a racketeer, and so were all those other guys.Now the Latinos and blacks are the gangsters.They've got no class just like all those Italians of the past. Funny,The Outfit always thought of themselves as patriotic Americans yet they never served in the military.My father was an exception.He was a Marine in WWII.Instead of getting on the right track after the war he returned to The Outfit. Big mistake.


Al Capone-the biggest name that ever came out of Chicago.They should be proud.

[dagosd2000]

Let Papa Tell It

If you've ever read Ernest Hemingway's collection of short stories,In Our Time,you come across one little ditty called "The Battler".Hemingway was transfixed with boxing more than the other sports.He was always obsessed with man's life and death struggles where in the end he never can cheat Father Time.But it was how you went out in the end that fascinated Papa. Using boxing as a metaphor for what takes place,that struggle, from beginning to end,he used boxing as his joyride at the typewriter from time to time.

"The Battler" is only a few pages long.Hemingway's best stuff isn't lengthy. It's the story of the young Nick Adams(talk about a writer that peppered the pages with symbolism)bumming across the great divide and how one night he stumbles upon a campground inhabited by two fellow drifters. One is a black man called "Bugs".His companion is named "Ad",Bugs always refers to him as Mr. Francis.Bugs looks out for Mr. Francis who introduces him to Nick.(Bugs refers to Nick as Mr. Adams.)Nick finds out that Mr. Francis is none other than Ad Francis,the former lightweight champion of the world.

This isn't a story about boxing.It's that metaphor with Ad Francis being the messenger.When Hemingway had In Our Time published back in 1925 it was a no brainer that Ad Francis was filling in for Ad Wolgast,the fighter they called"The Michigan Wildcat.,the ex lightweight champion of the world.

Ad Wolgast won the title in California in 1910 from Battling Nelson in a bloodbath lasting 40 rounds. Even back then when California was one of the few states to allow this kind of carnage ,because The Golden State was as far away from civilization as the U.S. borders would permit,the fight was so horrific that the crowd was relieved that the mortician didn't have to come a runnin'.

Wolgast lived up to his moniker.He was a "wildcat".He wasn't afraid of anybody.But being mortal the wildness finally was put to rest after a another horrific fight after Wolgast hung up his gloves.He went crazy from all the punishment but he went out clawing.to the end and taking more beatings.

The analogy is that Ad Francis is depicted as running parallel with Ad Wolgast.Mr. Francis is crazy and knows it,but he is proud that he can take it.He knows he's not going to win, but he's going to go out with what he has left in his makeup.He can "take it".He can't dish it out anymore,but there' a greater worth being able to take the blows than just throwing in the towel..It's a perverse dignity. And that's what Hemingway was always wrapped up in-that grace under pressure thing.Knowing that you can't win in the end but you leave this world with class.You took it, and now it was that time.

Hemingway blew his brains out with his shotgun.I guess he couldn't "take it."

Ad Wolgast
.

[Joson]

..
.

You seem fascinated by all this Mafia s--t.All I heard all my life from my father was stories about Al Capone and the rest of those Outfit guys.He wanted to be like his father but fell short.Instead of earning an honest living he was always on the take and the make.He should have written a book.My mother was sick and tired of it.Finally,I got sick of it.It's like all this organized crime stuff with these greaseballs was a a feather in the cap of Italians.The Godfather movie got the Itaiians off the streets with their monkeys and organs into a realm of royalty.But all these hoods either got killed or died in jail.They were dope dealers,pimps,murderers,and extortionists.Something really to be proud of. I used to take a pride in it-what my grandfather was like,but all in all he was a racketeer, and so were all those other guys.Now the Latinos and blacks are the gangsters.They've got no class just like all those Italians of the past. Funny,The Outfit always thought of themselves as patriotic Americans yet they never served in the military.My father was an exception.He was a Marine in WWII.Instead of getting on the right track after the war he returned to The Outfit. Big mistake.


Al Capone-the biggest name that ever came out of Chicago.They should be proud.

You're correct: I love reading mob stories. Good, old time mafia stuff. On the other hand, under no circumstances would I ever want to be part of "the life."

I think it would be a stressful, crappy way to live, even if it made me an instant millionaire for handling business duties for them (street loans, business stuff, and so on). I couldn't handle it, knowing that even as a non-violent business associate of the wiseguys, I could be charged with felonies if the authorities found out.

[dagosd2000]

..
.

You seem fascinated by all this Mafia s--t.All I heard all my life from my father was stories about Al Capone and the rest of those Outfit guys.He wanted to be like his father but fell short.Instead of earning an honest living he was always on the take and the make.He should have written a book.My mother was sick and tired of it.Finally,I got sick of it.It's like all this organized crime stuff with these greaseballs was a a feather in the cap of Italians.The Godfather movie got the Itaiians off the streets with their monkeys and organs into a realm of royalty.But all these hoods either got killed or died in jail.They were dope dealers,pimps,murderers,and extortionists.Something really to be proud of. I used to take a pride in it-what my grandfather was like,but all in all he was a racketeer, and so were all those other guys.Now the Latinos and blacks are the gangsters.They've got no class just like all those Italians of the past. Funny,The Outfit always thought of themselves as patriotic Americans yet they never served in the military.My father was an exception.He was a Marine in WWII.Instead of getting on the right track after the war he returned to The Outfit. Big mistake.


Al Capone-the biggest name that ever came out of Chicago.They should be proud.

You're correct: I love reading mob stories. Good, old time mafia stuff. On the other hand, under no circumstances would I ever want to be part of "the life."

I think it would be a stressful, crappy way to live, even if it made me an instant millionaire for handling business duties for them (street loans, business stuff, and so on). I couldn't handle it, knowing that even as a non-violent business associate of the wiseguys, I could be charged with felonies if the authorities found out.

Your choice of words gets me-"I love reading mob stories"..."Good old time stuff"... Your reasons for not being a part of the life saying it's "stressful"..."crappy".How about "all f--ked up?" Or "as low as you can get?"What is a "non violent business associate?" Someone who's involved with and who aids and abets murderers,drug smugglers,pimps,kidnappers,extortionists,torturing people?An "instant millionaire?"Those odds have to be as miniscule as finding the Holy Grail.And the ones who do wind up millionaires?They made their money by ruining people's lives and striking fear throughout society.

Reading about Nazi Germany has always interested me,but I wouldn't associate the word"love" reading anout it.It certainly isn't "good old time stuff." I'm always amazed how such an educated,intelligent country like Germany could have been so stupid to fall for a guy like Hitler.

My father could never get it out of his mind to turn his back on The Outfit after he served as a Marine in WWII in Pelileu and Okinawa..His brother was also a Marine in Guadacanal ,and when he came back from the war he became a honest citizen. Take it from someone who experienced the fallout from having a Mob man as a father.He wouldn't work for anyone besides those gangsters..He was always trying to make an easy buck.Be the big shot.That movie Goodfellas summed up my father(the joe Pesci charcater,Tommy) and his pals.My father however never went to jail(he came real close.That's why he had to leave Chicago) and he died a natural death.In a way he was lucky.

I blame the media.They glorify those gangsters with movies like the Godfather,Goodfellas,Casino,and The Sopranos.They make it seem like it was a glorious life.My father put a tremendous burden on his family because he never worked an honest job and we had to support him.

Today, it's these Pablo Escobars and Chapo Guzmans who are the new breed of criminals and cowboy. They are glorified by the media. The anti hero is now the hero. Watch a movie like "Cool Hand Luke".What a lie.The prisoners are good ol' boys,victims of society. And the guards are the bad guys.I worked in jails.It ain't that way.Get you ass thrown in there for the first time and t's like a feeding frenzy.Your asshole comes out of there with a new dimension.

Too bad the president, congress,law enforcement,and the media agencies-the people who can put a stop to crime or at least curb it-have been bought off by gangsters .So now they're in bed with them.They're gangsters too.

[dagosd2000]

I Forgot The Most Important Part

In my above reply I forgot to add the most dangerous institution that;s threatenng our supposed democracy-the justice department.The buck stops with judges.

I'll give you one more tidbit and then I want to let this go.i had a kid in one of my classes.It was a dropout prevention program where kids were behind in credits and needed to get caught up. This kid's father owned a brokerage house on the U.S. side of the border. He met a girl in the class whose father was part of the Guadalajara cartel. He was a player big time.

Well, the kid and the girl fell in love and got married. I pulled the boy aside and told him to be careful.He would be approached by the girl's father to smuggle drugs.Let's face it.His old man owned a brokerage firm. Just like I thought the next thing the kid tells me that he's smuggling cocaine after crossing the border in one of his old man's trucks.
"We have everybody paid off.The Mexican cops.The U.S. customs.The DEA.It's easy."
I just shook my head.

Then one night I get a phone call from the kid's wife.
"Eduardo is in jail.My brother was with him.He got caught driving his dad's truck with 250 kilos of coke."
The two kids wind up in the federal lockup in San Diego.They get bailed and now are awaiting trial.The kid came to me one day when I was at the school.
"What happened?"I asked him.
"I had crossed the border with Maria's brother at Tecate when a Highway Patrolman pulled me over for a blown taillight. I got nervous and he searched the truck and found the cocaine.I need your help."
"What can I do for you?"
"Can you write a letter of reference to the federal judge who is going to try the case?"
"Sure."
"But I've got to tell you don't mention Maria's father and how everybody was paid off and how this operation was put together..Just that I'm a good kid."
"You mean to tell me that they think you did this on your own?"
"That's what my attorney was told by the judge.Just that I'm a nice guy."

Well,the boy and the brother got convicted.They took the rap for everything.They were sentenced to serve 6 years in a federal jail in Oregon.So it was obvious that the prosecutor ,the kid's attorney ,and the judge were paid to suppress evidence and have this kid go to jail..

One day when the pair were outside the jail on a work furlough a car pulled alongside the two.The guy driving told the brother to get in.They drove off like it was nothing, and the guards didn't make a move.Eduardo served his 6 years,.In the meantime his wife left him and lived with her father in Mexico.

AND USTICE FOR ALL(if you have enough money )

[Joson]

..
.

You seem fascinated by all this Mafia s--t.All I heard all my life from my father was stories about Al Capone and the rest of those Outfit guys.He wanted to be like his father but fell short.Instead of earning an honest living he was always on the take and the make.He should have written a book.My mother was sick and tired of it.Finally,I got sick of it.It's like all this organized crime stuff with these greaseballs was a a feather in the cap of Italians.The Godfather movie got the Itaiians off the streets with their monkeys and organs into a realm of royalty.But all these hoods either got killed or died in jail.They were dope dealers,pimps,murderers,and extortionists.Something really to be proud of. I used to take a pride in it-what my grandfather was like,but all in all he was a racketeer, and so were all those other guys.Now the Latinos and blacks are the gangsters.They've got no class just like all those Italians of the past. Funny,The Outfit always thought of themselves as patriotic Americans yet they never served in the military.My father was an exception.He was a Marine in WWII.Instead of getting on the right track after the war he returned to The Outfit. Big mistake.


Al Capone-the biggest name that ever came out of Chicago.They should be proud.

You're correct: I love reading mob stories. Good, old time mafia stuff. On the other hand, under no circumstances would I ever want to be part of "the life."

I think it would be a stressful, crappy way to live, even if it made me an instant millionaire for handling business duties for them (street loans, business stuff, and so on). I couldn't handle it, knowing that even as a non-violent business associate of the wiseguys, I could be charged with felonies if the authorities found out.

Your choice of words gets me-"I love reading mob stories"..."Good old time stuff"... Your reasons for not being a part of the life saying it's "stressful"..."crappy".How about "all f--ked up?" Or "as low as you can get?"What is a "non violent business associate?" Someone who's involved with and who aids and abets murderers,drug smugglers,pimps,kidnappers,extortionists,torturing people?An "instant millionaire?"Those odds have to be as miniscule as finding the Holy Grail.And the ones who do wind up millionaires?They made their money by ruining people's lives and striking fear throughout society.

Reading about Nazi Germany has always interested me,but I wouldn't associate the word"love" reading anout it.It certainly isn't "good old time stuff." I'm always amazed how such an educated,intelligent country like Germany could have been so stupid to fall for a guy like Hitler.

My father could never get it out of his mind to turn his back on The Outfit after he served as a Marine in WWII in Pelileu and Okinawa..His brother was also a Marine in Guadacanal ,and when he came back from the war he became a honest citizen. Take it from someone who experienced the fallout from having a Mob man as a father.He wouldn't work for anyone besides those gangsters..He was always trying to make an easy buck.Be the big shot.That movie Goodfellas summed up my father(the joe Pesci charcater,Tommy) and his pals.My father however never went to jail(he came real close.That's why he had to leave Chicago) and he died a natural death.In a way he was lucky.

I blame the media.They glorify those gangsters with movies like the Godfather,Goodfellas,Casino,and The Sopranos.They make it seem like it was a glorious life.My father put a tremendous burden on his family because he never worked an honest job and we had to support him.

Today, it's these Carlos Escobars and Chapo Guzmans who are the new breed of criminals and cowboy. They are glorified by the media. The anti hero is now the hero. Watch a movie like "Cool Hand Luke".What a lie.The prisoners are good ol' boys,victims of society. And the guards are the bad guys.I worked in jails.It ain't that way.Get you ass thrown in there for the first time and t's like a feeding frenzy.Your asshole comes out of there with a new dimension.

Too bad the president, congress,law enforcement,and the media agencies-the people who can put a stop to crime or at least curb it-have been bought off by gangsters .So now they're in bed with them.They're gangsters too.

I have never met mob guys and don't want to. But I know LE personnel who investigated them over a period of years. One told me that sometimes small business owners who get pinched by the mob end up benefiting from the relationship. In other words, if the mob likes the small business owner and vice verse, they set the guy up doing street loans, or doing bookie stuff. In such instances, I'm told, the small business owner became rich very, very quick. But all of it is from illegal business.

That's all I was saying.

Also, enjoying reading true crime novels is a far cry from being pro-mob in real life.

[dagosd2000]

Mob guys aren't really worth knowing.Besides,they hang out with each other most of the time.When my father was alive sometimes those guys from Chicago would come out to San Diego to see him about something.I remember Frank LaPorte and Jackie "the Lackey" Cerone were friends with my father and they would come out to visit and my mother would make macaroni..After they left the FBI would come knocking on our door.The Special Agent In Charge Of San Diego(can you believe this guy's name was Jack Armstrong?)became close to my father.They'd go to lunch and Armstrong would ask my father to tell him stories about Al Capone and what it was like in Chicago. If my father called him at his office my father would use his code name:Joe Brazil. Like I said before,my father should have written a book.

[dagosd2000]

Hard Head

The doctors that examined Battling Nelson said that his skull was twice as thick as a normal person's.I don't know how they determined that especially back around the turn of the century when doctors were still using leeches and not washing their hands.

They called Nelson "The Durable Dane". Maybe that was because he had such a thick skull. You often accuse someone of having a "thick Skull" because they are a stubborn sort. Well, Nelson had a stubborn streak exemplified in his fighting style-full steam ahead.He fought many a time in bouts scheduled 40 rounds of more.He's most remembered for his trilogy with the great Joe Gans, dropping the first fight on a DQ,and then whipping The Old Master in two subsequent matches.Gans was in the throes of wasting away to TB at that time.After losing the last fight to Nelson ,Gans died of the disease shortly after.

Later,Nelson lost his title to Ad Wolgast when the referee wouldn't let Nelson continue because he was so maimed he couldn't see.The end came in the 40th round of a scheduled 45.

Nelson lived in the south end of Chicago. He married a gal who was a cartoonist for one of the local rags. He was gruff.She was erudite. The marriage was a chaotic and plutonic so they say.He threatened to kill himself.It was an idle boast.When the dementia started to creep in that thick skull of his, his siblings went after what he had left in the bank. He died in a mental institution in 1954.

Near the end of his life Nelson liked to go to the old veterans' home and entertain old soldiers with stories of his fights.I guess you could say there was a soft side to "The Durable Dane" after all.


Joe Gans

[dagosd2000]

Giving Them Something To Do

Maybe they measured how thick Battling Nelson's skull was after he died. Maybe it gave them something to do.They attributed his ability to take a punch because he had that thick skull.I always thought having a thick neck made a guy able to take a punch well.

But getting back up from a punch is what counts.Ever hear of that fighter,Joe Grim?Now there was a guy who could take it.He was born where my ancestors came from ,Campania,in the south of Italy. He came over on the boat around the turn of the century. He started fighting to help feed his family. Some record books show him having around 150 fights.Some say he had more like 500.

I don't know why this guy kept fighting.He was knocked down more than any other fighter who ever stepped into the ring. He must have had a really big family and they were hungry all the time.Grim(that's a good name for him looking at what he went through as a fighter) never was counted out in a fight. However, the majority of the stoppages resulted when a referee with a conscious would halt the slaughter.

Grim was called "The Human Punching Bag."He was described by a sports writer as "having knocking him down was a waste of time and effort because he keeps getting up.If dropping Grim down for the long count-if permitted-a fighter would need o use a crowbar or a baseball bat."

Grim's reputation for never being counted out drew fighters from the four corners,who knew victory would be attainable,but wanted to be the first man to watch the referee stand over Grim shouting "ten and out."

Eventually,Grim began to have mental health issues. He was put in a sanitarium in 1913 but released in 1916.He worked in a shipyard and even became a fight promoter.However the mental problems returned and he was recommitted to a mental hospital. It was in 1939 when he finally got the "ten count."

There isn't any mention if the doctors ,after Grim passed away, measured the thickness of his skull. Maybe they would have fund a correlation.But like I said, I found nothing about that.At least it would have given them something to do.


Jack Johnson.He stopped Joe Grim,but not for the count.