Most Underrated Fighter of All Time

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 05 Mar 2003, 22:37

flex.....I checked my mental "facilties" once, along with my hat and coat, and all three were stolen.

Guess I shouldn't have got my stinger out, but, like the scorpion, it's in my nature, especially when it comes to Ezzard Charles. The thing that got to me was the "some hero" statement.

Now, as I have wriiten on this same thread, I don't think Ezz is the most underrated fighter any more. History has made its corrections.

If we're staying with heavyweight champions, again I'll say Gene Tunney. As for Larry Holmes, I think as time goes by he'll start getting the recognition he deserves. In many ways he goes back to an older era, in that some of his best fights were before he won the title, and the one in which Ken Norton "defended" a title he never earned was one of his very best, especially when he came on in the last round to nail down the win.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 07 Mar 2003, 02:17

enrique...when I checked out Kid Tunero's record some time ago, it was incomplete, but Boxrec must have updated it . I have always been intrigued by him because he beat Ezzard Charles when Ezzard was a young, relatively inexperienced but still very good middleweight. As I've written elsewhere, Ezz was fascinated by him because "he knew so many things I'd never seen" Tunero was 31 in that fight, which was old in a way because he had fought so much and in so many places. He has wins over the great Holman Williams, Ken Overlin(middle champion,) future light heavy champ Anton Christoforidis, Jose Basora when he was good and lost two 15 round decisions to champion Marcel Thil in the latter's home country of France. Another interesting note is that he made his debut at 19..and in a main event. In a total of 148 fights I count just two losses by tko. record is filled with other good names all over europe. Like Gavilan, he has some years in which he fought as many as ten times. This is one I would call a really underrated fighter, as in the other cases, most of the fighters here are well known, but Tunero is name that you never see anywhere.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 08 Mar 2003, 12:10

Cerdan suffered a shoudler injury during the fight and had top quit between rounds..at the end of the tenth, I think. However LaMotta injured his hand badly early and Nat Fleischer said the injuries were about even and that LaMotta won on his merits, and it was his strength that caused the shoulder injury in the first place. Cerdan did okay in the few American fights he had (stopped the aging Zale to win the title) and many at the time thought he would show here that his Eorpean record was justified. When he fought LaMotta he was the #2 contender...sugar Ray was #1, and Cerdan was so highly thought of that many thought he could beat Robinson, or qat least make a great fight of it. Machine gun puncher...good match up in styles.

Irishlad69 · Post by **Irishlad69** » 09 Mar 2003, 22:51

Mike and tommy gibbons are extremely underrated today. Mike gibbons outboxed harry greb in one of thier two fights when mike was past his best. After the fight greb said to his manger "from now on match me with one guy at a time".

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 10 Mar 2003, 01:35

additional Marcel Cerdan story....in one of his American fights he gave a terrible beating to a young prospect named LaVern Roach. Roach had no business in there with him...too young and inexperienced. In a later fight he was killed in the ring, and, like Carnera , max baer and Ernie Schaaf, many blamed that death on the earlier Cerdan fight. Lavern had been named either the rookie or prospect of the year, I forget the exact "title" by Ring Magazine, and Nat Fleischer was so disturbed...he felt that rating of Roach was partially responsible for his getting the Cerdan match... that he stopped making that award,and changed it to something like "boxer who has made the most progress", but felt bad for the rest of his days about the tragedy.

Palais · Post by **Palais** » 13 Mar 2003, 07:13

Ingemar Johansson,
underrated by almost everybody,
but BoxRec! (Nr. 11 All Time Heavyweight comp-rating)

dominicanthug · Post by **dominicanthug** » 15 Mar 2003, 16:35

salvador sanchez, could have been great, beat wilfredo gomez, juan laporte, danny lopez twice, and a young azumah nelson, died at a young age 24, in my opinion if he face eusebio pedroza, he would have knocked him down also, in my opinion he is a top 5 featherweight.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 16 Mar 2003, 03:18

When I was helping train amateurs some years back I always showed the marciano/Walcott fight and pointed out Walcott's move...some of the best I've ever seen by any fighter in any fight..and I still show the tape now..complete. In a late round Walcott is against the rope, the way he fought most of the fight..Marciano is coming in,Walcott just tape his gloves together, and then smacks Marciano with a right hand that was joy to see. There were similar moves throughout the fight, but this particular one is one I show in stop motion.

Hey..welcome to the forum. If you think Johannsen would beat Ali you are going to be very busy defending that one. To name one more guy who hit Ali...when he was still Clay..with right hands every time he threw one was Billy Daniels. Not that I agree with you about Ingo though...and get ready for the barrage of posters who will flood this one with the legendary story of the young amateur Clay making champion Ingo look foolish in a gym sparring session. I don't think you need my help, but..Ingo was not an impressive gym fighter because he hardly ever threw the right hand when sparring.

Palais · Post by **Palais** » 15 Jun 2003, 09:59

It looks like Ali is becomes the most underrated fighter at this post?
Is Henry Armstrong forgotten? And Tiger Flowers?

gensu3k1 · Post by **gensu3k1** » 15 Jun 2003, 18:17

zurdo wrote:Sandy Saddler: greatest featherweight ever
It always bugs me when Willie Pep is rated as "the best featherweight of all time......over his three time conquerer

The rest of his record is outstanding as well....he fought in an era when black fighters didn't get any breaks

Just look at the record....Saddler stopped him in three out of four fights..

and Willie had to fight the fight of his life to win the one he did

I'm not saying Willie Pep isn't one of the best ever....he is..... it's just that Saddler was better and proved it in the ring

Sigh...... But what about the fact that Pep had more success against their common opponents?

gensu3k1 · Post by **gensu3k1** » 15 Jun 2003, 18:21

Jaclem wrote:When I was helping train amateurs some years back I always showed the marciano/Walcott fight and pointed out Walcott's move...some of the best I've ever seen by any fighter in any fight..and I still show the tape now..complete. In a late round Walcott is against the rope, the way he fought most of the fight..Marciano is coming in,Walcott just tape his gloves together, and then smacks Marciano with a right hand that was joy to see. There were similar moves throughout the fight, but this particular one is one I show in stop motion.

Hey..welcome to the forum. If you think Johannsen would beat Ali you are going to be very busy defending that one. To name one more guy who hit Ali...when he was still Clay..with right hands every time he threw one was Billy Daniels. Not that I agree with you about Ingo though...and get ready for the barrage of posters who will flood this one with the legendary story of the young amateur Clay making champion Ingo look foolish in a gym sparring session. I don't think you need my help, but..Ingo was not an impressive gym fighter because he hardly ever threw the right hand when sparring.

The best was when Walcott would feign being hurt, back up into the ropes and then come back with an uppercut. I've seen Ray Mercer try it (successfully).

gensu3k1 · Post by **gensu3k1** » 15 Jun 2003, 18:32

terap wrote:Sandy Saddler knocked out Willie Pep in 3 fights out of 4------

yet these idiots have the gall to say Pep was better.

And 2 plus 2 equals 7.

Saddler was 1 for 3 against Paddy DeMarco, so by your logic DeMarco was better than Saddler.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » 16 Jun 2003, 01:43

Eder Jofre is by far the most overlooked, underrated and least known greats ever. I'd put him in my top 5 p4p without even thinking against it, he was so good. Hell, an arguement could be made to put him right behind Ray Robinson, #2 or #3 all time! ...and how many of you have even heard of this man I speak of? (Most of you probably, because boxrec has a fine group of boxing intellectuals, but your everyday boxing fan has no idea who Jofre is)

I saw Vincente Saldivar mentioned earlier in this thread, which is a fine pick, and Jofre wiped the floor with him. When your only 2 losses in your career are decision losses to Fighting Harada IN JAPAN, you have done a damn good job.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » 16 Jun 2003, 01:49

I forgot to mention Jofre was 37 when he beat Saldivar, which is like Foreman winning the Heavyweight title in his comeback for the lower weights.

gensu3k1 · Post by **gensu3k1** » 16 Jun 2003, 13:39

Justin wrote:Eder Jofre is by far the most overlooked, underrated and least known greats ever. I'd put him in my top 5 p4p without even thinking against it, he was so good. Hell, an arguement could be made to put him right behind Ray Robinson, #2 or #3 all time! ...and how many of you have even heard of this man I speak of? (Most of you probably, because boxrec has a fine group of boxing intellectuals, but your everyday boxing fan has no idea who Jofre is)

I saw Vincente Saldivar mentioned earlier in this thread, which is a fine pick, and Jofre wiped the floor with him. When your only 2 losses in your career are decision losses to Fighting Harada IN JAPAN, you have done a damn good job.

He was an all-time great, but top 5 is too high. Can you really put him above Duran, Wilde or Armstrong. I have to admit that the only Jofre fights I've seen are the Harada fights, but based on those two I can't see him in the top 5. Can you give me some other Jofre fights (on film) that you found impressive?

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 16 Jun 2003, 16:11

Corrie Sanders

Tyson KTFO 3 Times · Post by **Tyson KTFO 3 Times** » 17 Jun 2003, 11:45

elmersalsa wrote:
TKOTOM wrote:Since a number of underrated fighters have been named I'll name one that has'nt, Larry Holmes. Larry had all the qualities of a top fighter. He also had some fights in his early championship days where he had to had to dig deep and show his champiopnship heart, Norton, Shavers, Snipes. Unfotunately he did what number of good fighters do stay around to long. I believe Larry in his day would have given any Heavyweight a competetive tough fight, Larry Holmes underrated.
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU TKOTOM. Not only Holmes WAS UNDERRATED, but he proved that he was one of the alltime best!. To me, HE HAD THE BEST JAB IN BOXING HISTORY. And also not only he had heart, but EXTRAORDINARY BOXING SKILLS AND RING GENERALSHIP. In my opinion, Holmes would have beat any heavyweight today, INCLUDING HOLYFIELD, TYSON AND LEWIS!!!

Great points, larry was very underrated, and is in my top 4 heavys of all time.

jsc1973 · Post by **jsc1973** » 20 Jun 2003, 02:06

TKOTOM wrote:Since a number of underrated fighters have been named I'll name one that has'nt, Larry Holmes. Larry had all the qualities of a top fighter. He also had some fights in his early championship days where he had to had to dig deep and show his champiopnship heart, Norton, Shavers, Snipes. Unfotunately he did what number of good fighters do stay around to long. I believe Larry in his day would have given any Heavyweight a competetive tough fight, Larry Holmes underrated.

Holmes may have stayed around too long, but what the heck? He was still in there at 46 years old and if he'd won one more round in the McCall fight, he'd have been world champion again. The only thing I really wish he hadn't done was fight Butterbean. Butterbean doesn't have the right to be in the ring with a real boxer, let alone an all-time great.

Anyone who successfully defends the world heavyweight title 20 times is worthy of anyone's respect. I won't even get into the fact that he didn't really lose to Spinks either time.

Vetteguy99 · Post by **Vetteguy99** » 20 Jun 2003, 22:50

Tim Witherspoon
Jimmy Lester
Mike the Body snatcher

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 27 Jun 2003, 09:38

Terry Conklin damnit!

err, oh wait...

shoot.