Back In Business
The 2nd Dempsey/Tunney fight put Chicago back in business again as a major fight venue. After Joe Gans fell in with the gambling crowd in The Windy City around the turn of the century performing his fainting flop act against Terry McGovern, the city fathers kept a close eye on boxing. Oh,there were some minor skirmishes but nothing of the magnitude of what was to happen in Soldiers Field with Jack and Gene.
It helped that the biggest Mecca in the world,New York City, when it came to major fighters settling their differences,disallowed the pair to fight in The Apple. Dempsey"s backing out of the Harry Wills fight didn't seem Kosher so the matzo ball soup was cooked up in Chicago.
But who's stirring the pot? Al Capone. It was the wolf guarding the hen house. Al,who loved betting his money on a sure thing,approached Dempsey' side with an offer Capone thought they couldn't refuse.The sit down was at my grandfather's Bella Napoli Cafe.That's where the Chicago Black Sox players ,who were recently acquitted buy a jury,went to celebrate their shutout. Why not see if Dempsey would swing at Al's pitch?
Capone wanted Dempsey to "win" this time,and then the rubber match would be on the level.How he was going to get Tunney to swing his bat was something he hadn't thought of. But Dempsey was going to leave his bat on his shoulder too. He didn't want to fight anymore after this one.His wife,the long in the tooth actress Estelle Taylor,wanted him to throw in the sponge.But it was Dempsey who was worried about his health that was the deciding factor.
My grandfather,Diamond Joe,told my father later that Capone really didn't have his heart in it when he made his offer. The Mob fixing fights wasn't a prime source of income for those guys anyway.It was kind of a lark.
But Chicago did get its hat back into the boxing ring again. And the Outfit still wanted to try it on. My father told me that after Ray Robinson won the welterweight title that he was asked to throw a fight in the Second City.Robinson said he wouldn't do that but that if they wanted him to 'carry' an opponent he'd go along.And that's what he did,Look at the record when he was the 147 pound champ.All his adversaries lasted the distance.
Basilio never liked fighting in Chicago.He always had a funny feeling about the place.That's where he lost the rematch with Robby. That's also the tow where he couldn't get by Chuck Davey,Billy Graham ,and Johnny Saxton.Joe Walcott after struggling through 13 rounds with Rocky Marciano,fought The Rock again in The Chicago Stadium.They're still trying to find the punch that put Joe down for the count in the 1st round.
But like I said,fixing fights with The Mob,is small potatoes.Nothing compared to murder, gambling,extortion,prostitution,labor racketeering,and narcotics smuggling and selling. I bet when those hoods went to confession they didn't even mention fixing a fight to the priest.Then again,I don't think they mentioned that other stuff either.
Jack Dempsey.He ate the spaghetti but didn't swallow the bait.
Classic American West Coast Boxing
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dagosd2000
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
All That Jazz
Diamond Joe's Bella Napoli had its share of entertainers on the stage during the Roaring 20's. Many of the New Orleans musicians came up the Mississippi and settled in playing in Chicago. My grandfather knew what the people wanted and gave it to them-jazz.He featured a lot of jazz groups including the bands of Bix Beiderbecke,KId Ory,Sidney Bechet,and Joe "King" Oliver" who featured a kid that was blowin' snakes on his horn.HIs name was Louis Armstrong.With his bathtub gin,the best Italian food in the city,and Capone and his boys throwing money around like confetti;the Bella Napoli was on everybody's list for sure good time.
In 1926 the Feds put a lock on the door of the Bella Napoli for a year because of its nefarious clientele and activities; so Diamond Joe took the family to Naples to visit his old haunts,especially the little town he was born in,Acerra. He let Frank Nitti and his brood stay in his house on the corner of Polk and Oakley . When Dimey returned after a year the goombas and the press were waiting at the station.
"I ate horse meat,"exclaimed my father who 13 years old.
Two years later my grandfather was assassinated walking home from a hod carriers union meeting that he was the boss of. When thugs with shotguns exited the drive by car. My grandfather's body guards hit the pavement face down.
Canal Street Blues -Joe "King" Oliver and his band featuring Louie Armstrong
Diamond Joe's Bella Napoli had its share of entertainers on the stage during the Roaring 20's. Many of the New Orleans musicians came up the Mississippi and settled in playing in Chicago. My grandfather knew what the people wanted and gave it to them-jazz.He featured a lot of jazz groups including the bands of Bix Beiderbecke,KId Ory,Sidney Bechet,and Joe "King" Oliver" who featured a kid that was blowin' snakes on his horn.HIs name was Louis Armstrong.With his bathtub gin,the best Italian food in the city,and Capone and his boys throwing money around like confetti;the Bella Napoli was on everybody's list for sure good time.
In 1926 the Feds put a lock on the door of the Bella Napoli for a year because of its nefarious clientele and activities; so Diamond Joe took the family to Naples to visit his old haunts,especially the little town he was born in,Acerra. He let Frank Nitti and his brood stay in his house on the corner of Polk and Oakley . When Dimey returned after a year the goombas and the press were waiting at the station.
"I ate horse meat,"exclaimed my father who 13 years old.
Two years later my grandfather was assassinated walking home from a hod carriers union meeting that he was the boss of. When thugs with shotguns exited the drive by car. My grandfather's body guards hit the pavement face down.
Canal Street Blues -Joe "King" Oliver and his band featuring Louie Armstrong
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Roger: Was there another mobster called Diamond Joe besides your Grandfather ?
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The only other "Diamond Joe" that I know of was a guy, later born in Chicago ,also named Joe Esposito.He went by "Diamond Joe" taking after my grandfather.He later became Elvis Presley's tour manager.He died in 2016.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Take The Joe Train
Once in a while Joe Louis would charter a railway car for his wife( sometimes not his wife
) and entourage to arrive at his next fight destination. Usually his opponent was one of those Bum Of The Monthers so the atmosphere was kind of loose on board. One thing Louis insisted on was having music accompany the ride.Sometimes he'd hire a band-colored of course-and their style was always jazzy.However there were times when Joe would have a sound system set up in the car and the music would be pumped into every nook and cranny.
During the 30's the foremost colored groups were Duke Ellington, Count Basie.,and Chick Webb. Their syncopations kept in step with the clickety clack of the railroad tracks. It was Joe's party before the storm.
Joe Louis wasn't exactly Winston Churchill when speaking in public,or anywhere when you come right down to it when choosing those big words.A lot of people,especially the ones that still held the belief that negros needed to know their place,took Louis' verbalizing as a reflection of his intellect.Granted,he didn't go to Harvard,but that doesn't mean a person is stupid, let alone assessing his worth as a human being, is diminished because he doesn't have a sheepskin hanging on his wall..
People sure took advantage of Joe Louis,especially when it came to money. From his down and out friends to often total strngers Joe was an easy touch. Then there were the promoters. They called Mike Jacobs,"Uncle Mike." Know of anyone who's had one of those "Dirty Uncles"?
I've always said that Joe Louis did more for changing the status quo about race than any civil rights advocate.Yet Louis never got on his soapbox.The again Winston Churchill had a lousy left hook.
Joe Louis
Once in a while Joe Louis would charter a railway car for his wife( sometimes not his wife
) and entourage to arrive at his next fight destination. Usually his opponent was one of those Bum Of The Monthers so the atmosphere was kind of loose on board. One thing Louis insisted on was having music accompany the ride.Sometimes he'd hire a band-colored of course-and their style was always jazzy.However there were times when Joe would have a sound system set up in the car and the music would be pumped into every nook and cranny.During the 30's the foremost colored groups were Duke Ellington, Count Basie.,and Chick Webb. Their syncopations kept in step with the clickety clack of the railroad tracks. It was Joe's party before the storm.
Joe Louis wasn't exactly Winston Churchill when speaking in public,or anywhere when you come right down to it when choosing those big words.A lot of people,especially the ones that still held the belief that negros needed to know their place,took Louis' verbalizing as a reflection of his intellect.Granted,he didn't go to Harvard,but that doesn't mean a person is stupid, let alone assessing his worth as a human being, is diminished because he doesn't have a sheepskin hanging on his wall..
People sure took advantage of Joe Louis,especially when it came to money. From his down and out friends to often total strngers Joe was an easy touch. Then there were the promoters. They called Mike Jacobs,"Uncle Mike." Know of anyone who's had one of those "Dirty Uncles"?
I've always said that Joe Louis did more for changing the status quo about race than any civil rights advocate.Yet Louis never got on his soapbox.The again Winston Churchill had a lousy left hook.
Joe Louis
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
No Steinways In This Joint
They tore the building down years ago.It had to be a hundred years old. That last block of Market Street in San Diego where Bob Johnston'e burlesque house was,The Hollywood Theater, and next door his watering hole ,The Sports Palace. I saw that neighborhood just as it was beginning to turn south.More bums and winos,The flop houses and pawn shops.There was nothing anyone could do about it but wait.
The Hollywood was the last burlesque house left in the 48. I went in there a few times when I was underage and nobody seemed to mind. The place was dark inside with a few sailors slouched down in their seats.Texas Bobbi Roberts would slink out on the runway,all 6 feet of her with those pasties and the way she could make the twirls go around by boppin' her titties.She was some handful.I think Johnston was married to her. The house drummer supplied plenty of rim shots as she gyrated down the walk. She was beautiful.
Next door was The Sports Palace.Bob's brother Charlie liked to hangout there,mostly in the back room they called the office. Him and Doc Kearns were handling Archie Moore.He was the champ then ,and they were cherry picking his opposition.I've run it by you that my old man thought The Sports Palace was something that reminded him of State Street in Chicago back in the day. Besides,those old cusses like charley and Bob could swap lies with my old man as good as any.Then you throw Doc Kearns in the mix and you have a Damon Runyan tale.
My old man would take me with him to the Sports Palace. You'd pass the bar on the right and behind it they had that big picture of Ike shaking hands with Rocky Marciano. Beside it was an equally big picture of Jim Londos the wrestler.Londos was living up in Oceanside at the time.He was through with wrestling by then.
I don't think there was any set time in the day but old Gus,the colored guy, would come in and play that upright piano they had in the corner.I never saw anyone else at that keyboard but him.I think he knew every song that came out of Tin Pan Alley. Get a couple of bourbon and waters in ya' and ask him to play something and it was like a dream.You could ask him to play something particular and he he always had the answer. He wore that derby and chewed on that stogie.He was a cutout from one of those negro movies they had back in the 40's.Like I said,after a few hairs of the dog you didn't need to watch Casablanca with Dooley Wilson sitting at the piano in Ricks Cafe Americain.It was no movie.You could touch it.
Gus played a cross between Teddy Wilson and Fats Waller.When he sang he sounded like Fats,all gravely with his head up and smilin'..When he tickled the ivory he was soundin' like Teddy.
But all that is long gone.Today,the block is all these high priced pastel colored condominiums and phony restaurants with the gimmicky names all for the tourists.I guess you can't turn back the clock. But if you have some of those songs in your head it will do.
Startin' to get my drift?
They tore the building down years ago.It had to be a hundred years old. That last block of Market Street in San Diego where Bob Johnston'e burlesque house was,The Hollywood Theater, and next door his watering hole ,The Sports Palace. I saw that neighborhood just as it was beginning to turn south.More bums and winos,The flop houses and pawn shops.There was nothing anyone could do about it but wait.
The Hollywood was the last burlesque house left in the 48. I went in there a few times when I was underage and nobody seemed to mind. The place was dark inside with a few sailors slouched down in their seats.Texas Bobbi Roberts would slink out on the runway,all 6 feet of her with those pasties and the way she could make the twirls go around by boppin' her titties.She was some handful.I think Johnston was married to her. The house drummer supplied plenty of rim shots as she gyrated down the walk. She was beautiful.
Next door was The Sports Palace.Bob's brother Charlie liked to hangout there,mostly in the back room they called the office. Him and Doc Kearns were handling Archie Moore.He was the champ then ,and they were cherry picking his opposition.I've run it by you that my old man thought The Sports Palace was something that reminded him of State Street in Chicago back in the day. Besides,those old cusses like charley and Bob could swap lies with my old man as good as any.Then you throw Doc Kearns in the mix and you have a Damon Runyan tale.
My old man would take me with him to the Sports Palace. You'd pass the bar on the right and behind it they had that big picture of Ike shaking hands with Rocky Marciano. Beside it was an equally big picture of Jim Londos the wrestler.Londos was living up in Oceanside at the time.He was through with wrestling by then.
I don't think there was any set time in the day but old Gus,the colored guy, would come in and play that upright piano they had in the corner.I never saw anyone else at that keyboard but him.I think he knew every song that came out of Tin Pan Alley. Get a couple of bourbon and waters in ya' and ask him to play something and it was like a dream.You could ask him to play something particular and he he always had the answer. He wore that derby and chewed on that stogie.He was a cutout from one of those negro movies they had back in the 40's.Like I said,after a few hairs of the dog you didn't need to watch Casablanca with Dooley Wilson sitting at the piano in Ricks Cafe Americain.It was no movie.You could touch it.
Gus played a cross between Teddy Wilson and Fats Waller.When he sang he sounded like Fats,all gravely with his head up and smilin'..When he tickled the ivory he was soundin' like Teddy.
But all that is long gone.Today,the block is all these high priced pastel colored condominiums and phony restaurants with the gimmicky names all for the tourists.I guess you can't turn back the clock. But if you have some of those songs in your head it will do.
Startin' to get my drift?
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
What To Make Of It
George Foreman got his award at last month's West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame,deservedly so. Here was a guy who after a 10 year layoff came back to win two versions of the heavyweight championship.I don't want to say"world championship" because there were so many alphabet soup champions at the time that Campbells wouldn't have had room to put them all in a can.But think of it? 10 years away from fighting and George comes back to win two of the better renown of the alphabet championships. It must have helped little kids learn their "ABC's".
But if you look, George's comeback trail was mostly accomplished against opponents with no capital letter fights under their belts.He was smart.He took his time.He had to. I don't think many fans thought he'd win even the most miniscule symbol of a heavyweight title, but when he dropped the hammer on an unmotivated Michael Moorer for the count in Las Vegas he gave all those geriatrics out there a blood transfusion.
Granted, George's comeback ran into some stumbling blocks.Tommy Morrison and Evander Holyfield.capital lettermen,had no problem with George. But then there were so many titles and so many deals being made that when Foreman was matched with Moorer the fight more than a curiosity piece. Michael Moorer(if you look up the word "moody" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of his face)was about as charismatic as a mud puddle.The fight was slow.Both fighters were walking around.There was little drama.And then BOOM. George clipped Mike and you could hear the rahs from the old folks home.
But then George was stripped of his WBA title for not wanting to fight Tony Tucker.Then in his next fight ,after beating Axel Schulz in a fight that could have gone to Axel,Big George was stripped of his IBF title for not wanting to fight Axel in a rematch.,(stripped of you title for not wanting to fight Tony Tucker and Axel Schulz? How low can yu go?) There was George left standing without any letters to put behind his name anymore.So be it.
But George gained an international fan club.He transformed himself in the process from being a burly ,surly,threatening Sonny Liston type into a a big happy Smokey The Bear displaying a sunny disposition.That's the way we like him.
Yes,Big George accepted his award inside The Biltmore Hotel. with a big smile and two big body guars beside him to prevent any annoyances. George gave his speech (one he's been using for quite awhile)about how he was afraid to duck when he fought Muhammad Ali.There's never been a losing fighter to Ali like George to go so far out of his way to praise The Greatest.
George left the banquet hall with his award flanked by his young, robust and serious looking back ups.He got the day's biggest hand,and deservedly so.
Putting plenty of meat on the grill
George Foreman got his award at last month's West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame,deservedly so. Here was a guy who after a 10 year layoff came back to win two versions of the heavyweight championship.I don't want to say"world championship" because there were so many alphabet soup champions at the time that Campbells wouldn't have had room to put them all in a can.But think of it? 10 years away from fighting and George comes back to win two of the better renown of the alphabet championships. It must have helped little kids learn their "ABC's".
But if you look, George's comeback trail was mostly accomplished against opponents with no capital letter fights under their belts.He was smart.He took his time.He had to. I don't think many fans thought he'd win even the most miniscule symbol of a heavyweight title, but when he dropped the hammer on an unmotivated Michael Moorer for the count in Las Vegas he gave all those geriatrics out there a blood transfusion.
Granted, George's comeback ran into some stumbling blocks.Tommy Morrison and Evander Holyfield.capital lettermen,had no problem with George. But then there were so many titles and so many deals being made that when Foreman was matched with Moorer the fight more than a curiosity piece. Michael Moorer(if you look up the word "moody" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of his face)was about as charismatic as a mud puddle.The fight was slow.Both fighters were walking around.There was little drama.And then BOOM. George clipped Mike and you could hear the rahs from the old folks home.
But then George was stripped of his WBA title for not wanting to fight Tony Tucker.Then in his next fight ,after beating Axel Schulz in a fight that could have gone to Axel,Big George was stripped of his IBF title for not wanting to fight Axel in a rematch.,(stripped of you title for not wanting to fight Tony Tucker and Axel Schulz? How low can yu go?) There was George left standing without any letters to put behind his name anymore.So be it.
But George gained an international fan club.He transformed himself in the process from being a burly ,surly,threatening Sonny Liston type into a a big happy Smokey The Bear displaying a sunny disposition.That's the way we like him.
Yes,Big George accepted his award inside The Biltmore Hotel. with a big smile and two big body guars beside him to prevent any annoyances. George gave his speech (one he's been using for quite awhile)about how he was afraid to duck when he fought Muhammad Ali.There's never been a losing fighter to Ali like George to go so far out of his way to praise The Greatest.
George left the banquet hall with his award flanked by his young, robust and serious looking back ups.He got the day's biggest hand,and deservedly so.
Putting plenty of meat on the grill
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Ryan's Express To A Trainwreck
I was out of town a coupe of days.I heard about Rayan Garcia losing to Gervonta Davis. When I got home I saw what there was of the fight on YouTube. I know down here in San Diego a lot of the Mexicans on the U.S. side had their hopes with Garcia. In Tijuana,because there's such a dwindling of Mexican national names in the spotlight anymore, I know they had their fingers crossed for the Chicano.
But from what I saw on the highlight reel this kid got smoked.It looked to me that Davis wanted to show his power to Garcia from the get go and know what was in store for him. The kid was psyched.He lost his heart. He knew he was in over his head early and Davis sensed it.Garcia was hanging on for dear life. He got dropped by an awkward left hook,his face was a mess,and when he got hit with the body shot(I couldn't see it clearly) he quite on himself. He found a way out.It looked like he was going to get up at 9, but at 9 and a half Garcia went down to his knee again. He was shaking his head.He was lucky it was still attached on his shoulders.
I was reading an article about Conor McGregor paying a visit to Garcia in the dressing room after it was over.He was telling Garcia that he should fight him again and that he's still the future of boxing and that he wanted him to win.
I think all Garcia wanted to do is dig himself a hole somewhere and crawl into it and not tell McGregor where it was.
I was out of town a coupe of days.I heard about Rayan Garcia losing to Gervonta Davis. When I got home I saw what there was of the fight on YouTube. I know down here in San Diego a lot of the Mexicans on the U.S. side had their hopes with Garcia. In Tijuana,because there's such a dwindling of Mexican national names in the spotlight anymore, I know they had their fingers crossed for the Chicano.
But from what I saw on the highlight reel this kid got smoked.It looked to me that Davis wanted to show his power to Garcia from the get go and know what was in store for him. The kid was psyched.He lost his heart. He knew he was in over his head early and Davis sensed it.Garcia was hanging on for dear life. He got dropped by an awkward left hook,his face was a mess,and when he got hit with the body shot(I couldn't see it clearly) he quite on himself. He found a way out.It looked like he was going to get up at 9, but at 9 and a half Garcia went down to his knee again. He was shaking his head.He was lucky it was still attached on his shoulders.
I was reading an article about Conor McGregor paying a visit to Garcia in the dressing room after it was over.He was telling Garcia that he should fight him again and that he's still the future of boxing and that he wanted him to win.
I think all Garcia wanted to do is dig himself a hole somewhere and crawl into it and not tell McGregor where it was.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
One Hit Wonders
One of the things that hurts boxing today are the fighters I call "One Hit Wonders." They burst upon the scene scoring a major upset,and then when it looks like they're set for the long haul they fade into the sunset.Easy come,easy go.Maybe it's because they don't fight enough or there aren't that many good contenders to match up with. Then again after the fast rise,and the sudden fall they become disparaged.
One example that comes to mind is Teofimo Lopez.When he took it to Lomochenko I thought this guy would be champ for quite a spell.But then in his first defense he loses fair and square to George Kambosis. So now Lopez gats my tag "One Hit Wonder." But not to be denied ,Kambosis in his first defense drops a UD to Kevin Haney. Georgie Boy can now join Lopez in the "One Hit Wonder" club.
I can go on and on with naming the members of this fraternity,and so can you.It's no secret. So why is this a common trend? I think it's because they can't deal with the sudden fame.Not so much the money,but the fear of success. The hunger they had going in has been sated by all the accolades. Now they can't rise to the occasion like before.A loss devastates them.
Down here in my neck of the woods there was this bantam Luis Nery. He looked unstoppable.He was clubbing his way through the 118 pound division until Brandon Figueroa put him to sleep.Then Figgy comes out of the gate in his next try and loses to Stephen Fulton.
There seems to be no fighters of caliber that can stay on top for more than a fight or two. Fury has done it but then look at his opponents.Deontay Wilder may say he's the greatest puncher of all time,but if you swallowed that can I interest you in buying the Brooklyn Bridge?
Where are the Louises,the Durans,Haglers,Moores,Monzons,Napoleses,Griffiths,Ortizes,Fosters? You know what I'm getting at.These guys had the mettle to persevere.
I remember going to school and there was this local band ,Rosie And The Originals, that put out that song "Angle Baby." It went to the top of the charts.But that was it. They never repeated with anything comparable to "Angel Baby." That song is the poster child for the "One Hit Wonder."
Every time I listen to "Angel Baby" I make a correlation to a particular fighter.I'm sure you could too.
Manny Pacquiao.No "One Hit Wonder" him.
One of the things that hurts boxing today are the fighters I call "One Hit Wonders." They burst upon the scene scoring a major upset,and then when it looks like they're set for the long haul they fade into the sunset.Easy come,easy go.Maybe it's because they don't fight enough or there aren't that many good contenders to match up with. Then again after the fast rise,and the sudden fall they become disparaged.
One example that comes to mind is Teofimo Lopez.When he took it to Lomochenko I thought this guy would be champ for quite a spell.But then in his first defense he loses fair and square to George Kambosis. So now Lopez gats my tag "One Hit Wonder." But not to be denied ,Kambosis in his first defense drops a UD to Kevin Haney. Georgie Boy can now join Lopez in the "One Hit Wonder" club.
I can go on and on with naming the members of this fraternity,and so can you.It's no secret. So why is this a common trend? I think it's because they can't deal with the sudden fame.Not so much the money,but the fear of success. The hunger they had going in has been sated by all the accolades. Now they can't rise to the occasion like before.A loss devastates them.
Down here in my neck of the woods there was this bantam Luis Nery. He looked unstoppable.He was clubbing his way through the 118 pound division until Brandon Figueroa put him to sleep.Then Figgy comes out of the gate in his next try and loses to Stephen Fulton.
There seems to be no fighters of caliber that can stay on top for more than a fight or two. Fury has done it but then look at his opponents.Deontay Wilder may say he's the greatest puncher of all time,but if you swallowed that can I interest you in buying the Brooklyn Bridge?
Where are the Louises,the Durans,Haglers,Moores,Monzons,Napoleses,Griffiths,Ortizes,Fosters? You know what I'm getting at.These guys had the mettle to persevere.
I remember going to school and there was this local band ,Rosie And The Originals, that put out that song "Angle Baby." It went to the top of the charts.But that was it. They never repeated with anything comparable to "Angel Baby." That song is the poster child for the "One Hit Wonder."
Every time I listen to "Angel Baby" I make a correlation to a particular fighter.I'm sure you could too.
Manny Pacquiao.No "One Hit Wonder" him.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Wind And Smoke
With these supposed mega fights you gotta have the grand entrance. Each participant enters onto a stage in front a big curtain all enveloped in smoke , the flashes of strobe lights, and the thunderous sounds of some song of his choice.
For the black fighters the din is usually the latest gangsta rapper with a name like Slick Daddy J Blood Crip wailing something about the hood and being ghetto and taking no s--t from nobody and f---ing all the bitches .It's a ditty that you wouldn't use to soothe the savage beast yet the dude shouting his lungs out certainly could pass for some fanged animal in the jungle.
The Mexicans go in for something ranchero or Mariachi(something either really sentimental or spouting macho courage dying in a hail of bullets) when after a few bars gets the aficianados to whoop and holler like a band of Indians.If they had let Pancho Villa's Dorados into the arena everyone would have been 'Dobe Walled or hanging from the nearest tree before the last round ended.
There's no white fighters anymore(and I'm talking American lily whites)so I'm not sure what number they'd push on the jukebox. Maybe Johnny Cash. If they're a dago ,Frank Sinatra. But this is only conjecture.
Then you gotta have the ring announcer , Michael Buffer, sound out his patented trademark "Let's Get Ready To Rumble."You know this guy is the wealthiest guy in boxing.They pay him millions to say."Let's Get Ready To Rumble" and that's for just for one fight!
And before I forget each fighter wears a pair of trunks that look like they've been sewn together in Elton John's boudoir.
And now I'm supposed to be ready for a fight? My ass.
Can you see Sugar Ray Robinson going through all those histrionics? Of course there were no gangsta rappers back then. Maybe a little Nat King Cole.But that would be too mild.Hey,here's a good one:
Yeah,that's more like it
With these supposed mega fights you gotta have the grand entrance. Each participant enters onto a stage in front a big curtain all enveloped in smoke , the flashes of strobe lights, and the thunderous sounds of some song of his choice.
For the black fighters the din is usually the latest gangsta rapper with a name like Slick Daddy J Blood Crip wailing something about the hood and being ghetto and taking no s--t from nobody and f---ing all the bitches .It's a ditty that you wouldn't use to soothe the savage beast yet the dude shouting his lungs out certainly could pass for some fanged animal in the jungle.
The Mexicans go in for something ranchero or Mariachi(something either really sentimental or spouting macho courage dying in a hail of bullets) when after a few bars gets the aficianados to whoop and holler like a band of Indians.If they had let Pancho Villa's Dorados into the arena everyone would have been 'Dobe Walled or hanging from the nearest tree before the last round ended.
There's no white fighters anymore(and I'm talking American lily whites)so I'm not sure what number they'd push on the jukebox. Maybe Johnny Cash. If they're a dago ,Frank Sinatra. But this is only conjecture.
Then you gotta have the ring announcer , Michael Buffer, sound out his patented trademark "Let's Get Ready To Rumble."You know this guy is the wealthiest guy in boxing.They pay him millions to say."Let's Get Ready To Rumble" and that's for just for one fight!
And before I forget each fighter wears a pair of trunks that look like they've been sewn together in Elton John's boudoir.
And now I'm supposed to be ready for a fight? My ass.
Can you see Sugar Ray Robinson going through all those histrionics? Of course there were no gangsta rappers back then. Maybe a little Nat King Cole.But that would be too mild.Hey,here's a good one:
Yeah,that's more like it
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
4 O'clock In The Morning Courage
The Rumble in The Jungle between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman started at 4 am local time in Zaire. That was because the pay per view watchers in the states wouldn't have to get up at some dreadful hour to get their money's worth.You figure if they're going to shell out all that kind of dough make it convenient for them.But imagine a fight having those epic proportions having the opening bell ring at 4 am?
When Robert E. Lee got the news that U.S. Grant was the new commanding general of The Army Of The Potomac he had to sit down and draw a breath.
"That man has 4'oclock in the morning courage,"remarked Lee.
Don't think ol' Bobby wasn't sweating it.
Who in their right mind wants to go toe to toe with another army or a fighter at such a dismal hour? All your bio rhythms are screwed up. Your serotonin levels are at their low. But that's the hour when that fight started.
Ali had to be the toughest mentally of any fighter around. After that forced layoff he wasn't the same caliber anymore. His legs were heavy.He was getting hit by shots that during the pre banishment he would have just floated away from the intended wrath. Now he was standing in his corner waiting for the bell looking face to face with a monster that said he wanted to "kill him." And it would have to be at 4 O'clock in the morning.Got to hand it to the guy.
Yesterday I got on my high horse pretty good.All this hype.All these disappointing fights.One sided blowouts. Or cakewalks that give you a case of sleeping sickness.Mismatches that were spun as matching two equally gifted battlers. OK. There are some good fights, but they are too few and far between. It's hard to follow boxing anymore.There's very little out there to hold one's attention.For me the most worth is recalling the history of the sport.What's alive today is the next step to life support.
What would have happened if his bicycle hadn't been stolen when he was a kid in Louisville?
The Rumble in The Jungle between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman started at 4 am local time in Zaire. That was because the pay per view watchers in the states wouldn't have to get up at some dreadful hour to get their money's worth.You figure if they're going to shell out all that kind of dough make it convenient for them.But imagine a fight having those epic proportions having the opening bell ring at 4 am?
When Robert E. Lee got the news that U.S. Grant was the new commanding general of The Army Of The Potomac he had to sit down and draw a breath.
"That man has 4'oclock in the morning courage,"remarked Lee.
Don't think ol' Bobby wasn't sweating it.
Who in their right mind wants to go toe to toe with another army or a fighter at such a dismal hour? All your bio rhythms are screwed up. Your serotonin levels are at their low. But that's the hour when that fight started.
Ali had to be the toughest mentally of any fighter around. After that forced layoff he wasn't the same caliber anymore. His legs were heavy.He was getting hit by shots that during the pre banishment he would have just floated away from the intended wrath. Now he was standing in his corner waiting for the bell looking face to face with a monster that said he wanted to "kill him." And it would have to be at 4 O'clock in the morning.Got to hand it to the guy.
Yesterday I got on my high horse pretty good.All this hype.All these disappointing fights.One sided blowouts. Or cakewalks that give you a case of sleeping sickness.Mismatches that were spun as matching two equally gifted battlers. OK. There are some good fights, but they are too few and far between. It's hard to follow boxing anymore.There's very little out there to hold one's attention.For me the most worth is recalling the history of the sport.What's alive today is the next step to life support.
What would have happened if his bicycle hadn't been stolen when he was a kid in Louisville?
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Three Letters
I was watching the NFL draft on the TV last night.It wasn't so much a big deal that I wanted to know who got drafted by what team as much as I wanted to see the dog and pony show. I didn't watch for long. The event was held in Union Station in Kansa City. The place was mobbed with people dressed up ;like they were at the Super Bowl:costumes,gadgets,gizmos;every imaginable meme of the 21st century was unfurled .When the camera passed by they fought to have their faces smashed up to the lens,screaming at the top of their lungs, Every city that had a NFL team was showcased with stadiums and the massive outdoor screens broadcasting who were the picks and the ceremonial pomp. Most of these picks will washout before the opening game.
But that's the magnitude of what the NFL has morphed into:mega media,mega bucks,and a popular appetite that's insatiable. It's bigger than life.Without going into the particulars Major League Baseball and the NBA are similar in scope. All these entities have their respective Disney Worlds that house their hallowed halls of fame. They resemble theme parks. Boxing, in comparison, is a weak sister.
There is no media around and national television when the IBHOF holds their annual inductions in their little cubby hole of an edifice. ESPN doesn't give it notice.You'd have to go to the website to find out who got in.But I always get to thinking when I see all this fanfare.If the world had to vote on the greatest athlete of all time(and you know by now I'm not into this kind of stuff)who would they vote number 1?
Being it's the world that's casting ballots you have to factor in soccer. But I'll put soccer aside for now and mull over what the U.S. big 3 would come up with for the all time greatest.
Up to the plate is baseball. Babe Ruth is a quick and natural response.
Next the NFL.Jim Brown.Jerry Rice,Tom Brady?
Now the NBA.I like Mike and Lebron.
But remember it's the world that gets to pick.Pele? Messi?
Put these guys' names next to (you should have guessed by now)Muhamad Ali and it's a no brainer. Ali stands out tallest.Boxing,the sport that's dying on the vine right now, is represented in this mythical vote has having the top gun.
After Ali there wouldn't be anyone on boxing's rolls that would get a call.Not even Joe Louis. But then there's Ali. Even the dumbest and most remote have heard of him even it's only the name. Ali-three letters. Standing alone he doesn't need any castles, and thrones to sit on.
Ali.It was more than boxing
I was watching the NFL draft on the TV last night.It wasn't so much a big deal that I wanted to know who got drafted by what team as much as I wanted to see the dog and pony show. I didn't watch for long. The event was held in Union Station in Kansa City. The place was mobbed with people dressed up ;like they were at the Super Bowl:costumes,gadgets,gizmos;every imaginable meme of the 21st century was unfurled .When the camera passed by they fought to have their faces smashed up to the lens,screaming at the top of their lungs, Every city that had a NFL team was showcased with stadiums and the massive outdoor screens broadcasting who were the picks and the ceremonial pomp. Most of these picks will washout before the opening game.
But that's the magnitude of what the NFL has morphed into:mega media,mega bucks,and a popular appetite that's insatiable. It's bigger than life.Without going into the particulars Major League Baseball and the NBA are similar in scope. All these entities have their respective Disney Worlds that house their hallowed halls of fame. They resemble theme parks. Boxing, in comparison, is a weak sister.
There is no media around and national television when the IBHOF holds their annual inductions in their little cubby hole of an edifice. ESPN doesn't give it notice.You'd have to go to the website to find out who got in.But I always get to thinking when I see all this fanfare.If the world had to vote on the greatest athlete of all time(and you know by now I'm not into this kind of stuff)who would they vote number 1?
Being it's the world that's casting ballots you have to factor in soccer. But I'll put soccer aside for now and mull over what the U.S. big 3 would come up with for the all time greatest.
Up to the plate is baseball. Babe Ruth is a quick and natural response.
Next the NFL.Jim Brown.Jerry Rice,Tom Brady?
Now the NBA.I like Mike and Lebron.
But remember it's the world that gets to pick.Pele? Messi?
Put these guys' names next to (you should have guessed by now)Muhamad Ali and it's a no brainer. Ali stands out tallest.Boxing,the sport that's dying on the vine right now, is represented in this mythical vote has having the top gun.
After Ali there wouldn't be anyone on boxing's rolls that would get a call.Not even Joe Louis. But then there's Ali. Even the dumbest and most remote have heard of him even it's only the name. Ali-three letters. Standing alone he doesn't need any castles, and thrones to sit on.
Ali.It was more than boxing
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Second Thoughts
I was in Tijuana yesterday and the talk on the street was that one of Ryan Garcia's sparring partners approached Gervonta Davis before the fight and informed him that Garcia was going into the fight with a rib injury he sustained in training.
I saw more of the fight on YouTube.Garcia started fast outboxing Davis.Manny Pacquiao is right about this guy.He's a very crude fighter who needs more work.Granted, he's powerful but he leaves himself open and his balance and footwork is horrible.
After the first knockdown Garcia went downhill.I don't know if the rib problem affected him.I can't find anything in print that says he was injured going in.Garcia didn't say anything that I know of.
Boxing isn't like the team sports where a guy gets injured and they put him on the IL.He still gets paid.With boxing it's different.You back out of the fight you don't get paid unless you were guaranteed something up front.
I guess there was a big Pay Per View audience. Let them fight again.I just hope you don't have to wait next year for the rematch.
I was in Tijuana yesterday and the talk on the street was that one of Ryan Garcia's sparring partners approached Gervonta Davis before the fight and informed him that Garcia was going into the fight with a rib injury he sustained in training.
I saw more of the fight on YouTube.Garcia started fast outboxing Davis.Manny Pacquiao is right about this guy.He's a very crude fighter who needs more work.Granted, he's powerful but he leaves himself open and his balance and footwork is horrible.
After the first knockdown Garcia went downhill.I don't know if the rib problem affected him.I can't find anything in print that says he was injured going in.Garcia didn't say anything that I know of.
Boxing isn't like the team sports where a guy gets injured and they put him on the IL.He still gets paid.With boxing it's different.You back out of the fight you don't get paid unless you were guaranteed something up front.
I guess there was a big Pay Per View audience. Let them fight again.I just hope you don't have to wait next year for the rematch.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Addendum
While I was in TJ ,supposedly getting the word about Ryan Garcia's sore ribs when he fought Gervonta Davis,I was also told to watch the replay of Davis' fight with Isaac "Pitbull" Cruz. Cruz was a late replacement for Rolando Romero who got pulled from the fight on a sexual harassment beef. I hadn't see this fight.My Mexican amigos were telling me that Cruz got robbed of the decision.
Well, I went to YouTube and watched the fight. My amigos were right.Cruz had Davis backing up most of the time,and when Davis got to the ropes he made a lot of clinches. He wasn't even close to the overpowering fighter he was against Ryan Garcia. The judges had it 115-113,115-113,116-112 all in favor of Davis:except those numbers should have been in favor of Cruz.If anyone deserves a rematch with Davis,it's Cruz.But the big money is with Garcia.
What else is new?
While I was in TJ ,supposedly getting the word about Ryan Garcia's sore ribs when he fought Gervonta Davis,I was also told to watch the replay of Davis' fight with Isaac "Pitbull" Cruz. Cruz was a late replacement for Rolando Romero who got pulled from the fight on a sexual harassment beef. I hadn't see this fight.My Mexican amigos were telling me that Cruz got robbed of the decision.
Well, I went to YouTube and watched the fight. My amigos were right.Cruz had Davis backing up most of the time,and when Davis got to the ropes he made a lot of clinches. He wasn't even close to the overpowering fighter he was against Ryan Garcia. The judges had it 115-113,115-113,116-112 all in favor of Davis:except those numbers should have been in favor of Cruz.If anyone deserves a rematch with Davis,it's Cruz.But the big money is with Garcia.
What else is new?
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Old School
Muhammad Ali did his roadwork wearing leather work shoes. Those weren't designed for running.They were made for guys like construction workers. Ali ,inside the gym or when running,wore a gray sweatshirt and the same color sweatpants. When he fought in the ring he wore white standard length boxing trunks with the black stripe down the side. The only exception was when he fought Joe Frazier the first time when he wore red trunks.He said afterwards that that had something to do with him losing. His shoes were white.(That wasn't the norm but could you imagine Ali wearing black boxing shoes?)When he fought Frazier that time he had tassels on them,. He also added that the tassels had something to do with that loss. He alluded that he was out of character. HIs robes were white with his name on the back. The exceptions were the red robe for the Fight Of The Century and a robe Elvis Presley gave him when he fought Ken Norton the first time that had inscribed on the back, "The People's Champ" He lost both those Fights.Again he was out of character.
Ali never sported a mustache or a beard when he entered the ring. In training for Foreman he grew a mustache because he had a cut on his lip resulting from a sparring session.His hair was cut medium .No long sideburns No tattoos. His dress attire on the street was a long sleeve shirt buttoned up to the collar and dress slacks.Leather shoes. His sport coats had thin lapels,and if he wore a tie it was one color over a white shirt.
Ali didn't have to draw attention to himself with his clothes or countenance. But when he fought and when he spoke it was a different matter.That was more than enough.
Muhammad Ali
Muhammad Ali did his roadwork wearing leather work shoes. Those weren't designed for running.They were made for guys like construction workers. Ali ,inside the gym or when running,wore a gray sweatshirt and the same color sweatpants. When he fought in the ring he wore white standard length boxing trunks with the black stripe down the side. The only exception was when he fought Joe Frazier the first time when he wore red trunks.He said afterwards that that had something to do with him losing. His shoes were white.(That wasn't the norm but could you imagine Ali wearing black boxing shoes?)When he fought Frazier that time he had tassels on them,. He also added that the tassels had something to do with that loss. He alluded that he was out of character. HIs robes were white with his name on the back. The exceptions were the red robe for the Fight Of The Century and a robe Elvis Presley gave him when he fought Ken Norton the first time that had inscribed on the back, "The People's Champ" He lost both those Fights.Again he was out of character.
Ali never sported a mustache or a beard when he entered the ring. In training for Foreman he grew a mustache because he had a cut on his lip resulting from a sparring session.His hair was cut medium .No long sideburns No tattoos. His dress attire on the street was a long sleeve shirt buttoned up to the collar and dress slacks.Leather shoes. His sport coats had thin lapels,and if he wore a tie it was one color over a white shirt.
Ali didn't have to draw attention to himself with his clothes or countenance. But when he fought and when he spoke it was a different matter.That was more than enough.
Muhammad Ali
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Across The Republic
"So how many fights have you seen in public?"asked Jeff the bartender as he opened a case of beer on the counter at Champs.
"A lot,"I answered.
It was morning and as usual there was no one in the place.You could smell the last night's beer.They must have had a pretty good night.I was sitting across from Jeff.I didn't want anything.
"You saw Ali when he fought Norton at the Sports arena didn't you?"
"Seems like a long time ago."
"What was the best fight you ever saw?"
"I've got a lot of them.Depends what mood I'm in."
"You still go to the fights in Tijuana?"
"Haven't been to one almost 10 years."
"Do they still have cards down there?"
"Not on a weekly basis like before."
Jeff got done putting the beer in the cooler underneath the bar.
"You sure you don't want anything?A beer? A cup of coffee?I"ll make some right now."
"You know the fight I think about a lot is the time I saw Baby Vasquez fight at the Jai Alai Palace."
"Why you say that?"
"It was a last minute decision.I went by myself. I remember it was a cold night.I was dressed in shirt sleeves. My body was shivering. I always wanted to see Baby Vasquez fight.He fought everywhere in Mexico;all across the republic.He was a living legend by then.I can't remember the guy he fought but it looked like he was playing with him,.I found out later that the guy never had a pro fight before.Vasquez never got a title hot.He could make it difficult for anyone to catch him flush.He was a real slippery guy.Mexicans like killers but Vasquez was a real cutie.But the Mexicans liked him because he could get those big bangers to miss and get them frustrated,throw their rhythm off.Jose Napoles fought him once and didn't want to fight him again after that. Vasquez probably had over 200 fights.He fought in just about every arena and bullring in Mexico;all across the republic.He was somethin' to watch."
Jeff grabbed a towel and began wiping down the bar.
"He was before my time,"he said."To tell the truth I never heard of him until you brought him up."
"I think about him a lot."
"You sure you don't want anything?A cup of coffee?I've got a pot brewing in the back."
Baby Vasquez
"So how many fights have you seen in public?"asked Jeff the bartender as he opened a case of beer on the counter at Champs.
"A lot,"I answered.
It was morning and as usual there was no one in the place.You could smell the last night's beer.They must have had a pretty good night.I was sitting across from Jeff.I didn't want anything.
"You saw Ali when he fought Norton at the Sports arena didn't you?"
"Seems like a long time ago."
"What was the best fight you ever saw?"
"I've got a lot of them.Depends what mood I'm in."
"You still go to the fights in Tijuana?"
"Haven't been to one almost 10 years."
"Do they still have cards down there?"
"Not on a weekly basis like before."
Jeff got done putting the beer in the cooler underneath the bar.
"You sure you don't want anything?A beer? A cup of coffee?I"ll make some right now."
"You know the fight I think about a lot is the time I saw Baby Vasquez fight at the Jai Alai Palace."
"Why you say that?"
"It was a last minute decision.I went by myself. I remember it was a cold night.I was dressed in shirt sleeves. My body was shivering. I always wanted to see Baby Vasquez fight.He fought everywhere in Mexico;all across the republic.He was a living legend by then.I can't remember the guy he fought but it looked like he was playing with him,.I found out later that the guy never had a pro fight before.Vasquez never got a title hot.He could make it difficult for anyone to catch him flush.He was a real slippery guy.Mexicans like killers but Vasquez was a real cutie.But the Mexicans liked him because he could get those big bangers to miss and get them frustrated,throw their rhythm off.Jose Napoles fought him once and didn't want to fight him again after that. Vasquez probably had over 200 fights.He fought in just about every arena and bullring in Mexico;all across the republic.He was somethin' to watch."
Jeff grabbed a towel and began wiping down the bar.
"He was before my time,"he said."To tell the truth I never heard of him until you brought him up."
"I think about him a lot."
"You sure you don't want anything?A cup of coffee?I've got a pot brewing in the back."
Baby Vasquez
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Something Not Worth Thinking About
"No.I'll pass on the coffee," I told Jeff.
Jeff put down the towel that he as wiping off the bar and picked up a feather duster .
"When are you going to take down all these old press clippings and fight pictures of Burke?",I asked him.
"That's not up to me,"he replied."That's Shirley's grandson's decision."
"It's been awhile since Burke died,"I said.
"I don't think anybody pays any attention to them or knows what they mean anyway."
"I always see at night a big crowd at the Bay Hill next door," I said.
"We get a big crowd too but they're different.Next door they have those girls behind the bar with the big tits.We just have old Mabel in here during the day and I don't think anybody wants to see her body.Next door they close at 9. We stay open till 2.We have a different kind of crowd.We could open at 6 am and they'd be in here but the landlord made us sign an agreement to not open till 11."
"Do any of the old fighters come in anymore?"
"I wouldn't know who they are if they did. They're probably all dead anyway."
Jeff turned and began dusting off the bottles on the shelf. He was talking to me with his back towards me.
"What did you think of that Mexican guy in Texas,"said Jeff," that killed those family members because they complained that the noise from his gun was waking up the baby?"
"That guy probably high tailed it across the border."
"You think they'll find him?"
"Hard to say.He's probably already in a gang since he's such a sociopath.He'll have enough clout to pay off the cops so they won't hand him over."
Jeff put the feather duster down and turned around.
"I makes me sick just thinking about something like that",he sighed.
"Well then you better not think bout it,"I said.
"No.I'll pass on the coffee," I told Jeff.
Jeff put down the towel that he as wiping off the bar and picked up a feather duster .
"When are you going to take down all these old press clippings and fight pictures of Burke?",I asked him.
"That's not up to me,"he replied."That's Shirley's grandson's decision."
"It's been awhile since Burke died,"I said.
"I don't think anybody pays any attention to them or knows what they mean anyway."
"I always see at night a big crowd at the Bay Hill next door," I said.
"We get a big crowd too but they're different.Next door they have those girls behind the bar with the big tits.We just have old Mabel in here during the day and I don't think anybody wants to see her body.Next door they close at 9. We stay open till 2.We have a different kind of crowd.We could open at 6 am and they'd be in here but the landlord made us sign an agreement to not open till 11."
"Do any of the old fighters come in anymore?"
"I wouldn't know who they are if they did. They're probably all dead anyway."
Jeff turned and began dusting off the bottles on the shelf. He was talking to me with his back towards me.
"What did you think of that Mexican guy in Texas,"said Jeff," that killed those family members because they complained that the noise from his gun was waking up the baby?"
"That guy probably high tailed it across the border."
"You think they'll find him?"
"Hard to say.He's probably already in a gang since he's such a sociopath.He'll have enough clout to pay off the cops so they won't hand him over."
Jeff put the feather duster down and turned around.
"I makes me sick just thinking about something like that",he sighed.
"Well then you better not think bout it,"I said.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Bury My Gloves At Wounded Knee
When thinking about all the fighters of different racial makeups the United States has had, and has, its fair share. There's plenty of candidates comprising of English,Irish,Black,Italian,Jews,Mexican;every color and creed,stretching all four corners of the country. But the guys that were here first:the native Americans-the Indians-where's their reps?
Indians were savage fighters,but did that necessitate having a tomahawk in their grips? They scalped and set their victims on fire and ate their hearts.They smashed captives' skulls,poked out eyes,cut out organs,crammed genitalia in their mouths.The Indians were sadistically creative when it came to downright torturing techniques and prolonging the agonies for days on end. You'd think that some of these warriors would have taken to the sweet science. But then there were all those Marquis Of Queensbury rules. Couldn't get a scalp after a boxing match.
The Indians never wanted to conform to the white man's conditions after they ran out of arrows.They didn't want to be confined living on a reservation. They didn't want to live in houses.They didn't want to be farmers.They wanted to keep their own religions. One wife was too confining and not enough fun. Raw buffalo meat was good enough for them to digest but the white man had exterminated that staple from the menu.Reading and writing was a drag. So I could see that for an Indian to think that boxing was a way to make a living was too civilized a way to fight.It was a white man's concept.
Still can't think of a full blooded Indian who was a prizefighter. There was Indian Red Lopez but we all know that was just another paleface.
Indian Red's bro,Little Red. Another paleface
When thinking about all the fighters of different racial makeups the United States has had, and has, its fair share. There's plenty of candidates comprising of English,Irish,Black,Italian,Jews,Mexican;every color and creed,stretching all four corners of the country. But the guys that were here first:the native Americans-the Indians-where's their reps?
Indians were savage fighters,but did that necessitate having a tomahawk in their grips? They scalped and set their victims on fire and ate their hearts.They smashed captives' skulls,poked out eyes,cut out organs,crammed genitalia in their mouths.The Indians were sadistically creative when it came to downright torturing techniques and prolonging the agonies for days on end. You'd think that some of these warriors would have taken to the sweet science. But then there were all those Marquis Of Queensbury rules. Couldn't get a scalp after a boxing match.
The Indians never wanted to conform to the white man's conditions after they ran out of arrows.They didn't want to be confined living on a reservation. They didn't want to live in houses.They didn't want to be farmers.They wanted to keep their own religions. One wife was too confining and not enough fun. Raw buffalo meat was good enough for them to digest but the white man had exterminated that staple from the menu.Reading and writing was a drag. So I could see that for an Indian to think that boxing was a way to make a living was too civilized a way to fight.It was a white man's concept.
Still can't think of a full blooded Indian who was a prizefighter. There was Indian Red Lopez but we all know that was just another paleface.
Indian Red's bro,Little Red. Another paleface
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 03 May 2023, 14:44, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Hi Roger: I think Joe Hipp and Sam Hampton were full blooded Indians. Hampton, of course, had that assault case with the Baltimore Oriole Glenn Davis.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Thanks for sharing that. BTW,I can't think of any Asian fighters who were boxers with the exception of David Young (born in Hawaii when it was a territory)
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Melodrama
The night John Dillinger got shot by FBI agent Melvin Purvis ,in that alley in Chicago trying to escape, he had just left the Biograph theater after watching 'Manhattan Melodrama" with a couple of women,Polly Hamilton and Ana Sage.It was a setup.Sage had co operated with the FBI to rat on Dillinger to prevent from being deported. Purvis was waiting outside. Sage wore an orange dress so that Purvis would be able to identify that it was Dillinger who was with the women. Sage thus became known as the infamous "Lady In Red."
I was watching "Manhattan Melodrama" last nigh on Turner Classic Movies. The two male leads are played by Clark Gable and William Powell. To make a long story short they are two orphan kids who grow up together like brothers. Powell takes the straight and narrow path winding up as the head DA in New York and later the governor. Gable runs in the rackets becoming the number one mobster in The Apple. Eventually, Powell has to make the decision to do the right thing and go after his pal.But Gable's affinity for his boyhood "brother" doesn't give him any ideas about knocking his old pal off. In fact he admires Powell for his honorable intentions! Powell ,as DA, eventually nabs Gable on a murder beef and now Gable is facing 'Ol Sparky at Sing Sing where they have a seat waiting for him. But Gable,being the standup guy , still isn't sore at his 'ol pal because he did the honest thing. If you can swallow all that then you must still believe in Santa Claus.
There' a scene early in the movie where Gable and Powell bump into each other at the Polo Grounds before the Dempsey/Firpo fight. They get to gabbing about the good 'ol days. They're yakking outside the stadium and Powell tells Gable he's going to run for the DA and clean up the city of gangsters. Gable is proud as punch but while they're jaw jacking they miss the fight.But they both laugh it off as nothing.
Im thinking.This movie is about as Pollyanna as the Wizard Of Oz,yet it has to do with organized crime..Now Dempsey and Firpo weren't acting. That nugget was the only real life experience in the movie. Then afterwards there's Dillinger gets drilled with lead from Melvin Purvis' gat in the back of an alley.Nothing melodramatic about that.
I remember my father telling me that they put Dillinger's body on display in the morgue.He ran over there with the rest of his pals like everybody else.I guess you could say they overdid that, but you sure couldn't call that acting.
Clark Gable
The night John Dillinger got shot by FBI agent Melvin Purvis ,in that alley in Chicago trying to escape, he had just left the Biograph theater after watching 'Manhattan Melodrama" with a couple of women,Polly Hamilton and Ana Sage.It was a setup.Sage had co operated with the FBI to rat on Dillinger to prevent from being deported. Purvis was waiting outside. Sage wore an orange dress so that Purvis would be able to identify that it was Dillinger who was with the women. Sage thus became known as the infamous "Lady In Red."
I was watching "Manhattan Melodrama" last nigh on Turner Classic Movies. The two male leads are played by Clark Gable and William Powell. To make a long story short they are two orphan kids who grow up together like brothers. Powell takes the straight and narrow path winding up as the head DA in New York and later the governor. Gable runs in the rackets becoming the number one mobster in The Apple. Eventually, Powell has to make the decision to do the right thing and go after his pal.But Gable's affinity for his boyhood "brother" doesn't give him any ideas about knocking his old pal off. In fact he admires Powell for his honorable intentions! Powell ,as DA, eventually nabs Gable on a murder beef and now Gable is facing 'Ol Sparky at Sing Sing where they have a seat waiting for him. But Gable,being the standup guy , still isn't sore at his 'ol pal because he did the honest thing. If you can swallow all that then you must still believe in Santa Claus.
There' a scene early in the movie where Gable and Powell bump into each other at the Polo Grounds before the Dempsey/Firpo fight. They get to gabbing about the good 'ol days. They're yakking outside the stadium and Powell tells Gable he's going to run for the DA and clean up the city of gangsters. Gable is proud as punch but while they're jaw jacking they miss the fight.But they both laugh it off as nothing.
Im thinking.This movie is about as Pollyanna as the Wizard Of Oz,yet it has to do with organized crime..Now Dempsey and Firpo weren't acting. That nugget was the only real life experience in the movie. Then afterwards there's Dillinger gets drilled with lead from Melvin Purvis' gat in the back of an alley.Nothing melodramatic about that.
I remember my father telling me that they put Dillinger's body on display in the morgue.He ran over there with the rest of his pals like everybody else.I guess you could say they overdid that, but you sure couldn't call that acting.
Clark Gable
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
It Just Wasn't My Night
I like when the pissing contests get going on the forum , the arguments about who was better than who. The fighters in question are usually two of the best.Sometimes they fought each other,or maybe not. Take for example Duran and Leonard. The evidence presented for dissing a particular fighter is his disappointing ring performances .To be fair these flubs should be fights when the fighter was in his prime.
We can look at Leonard and say his loss against Roberto the first time would be an example of a disappointing performance.Then in the rematch Roberto quit. 'Nuff said. Now at a seemingly standoff the the arguers will dig into the records to find examples of sub par efforts against other opponents. The bottom line with all great athletes is they have off nights. Mike Tyson is now doing a standup act that when he refers to the Douglas fight he shrugs it off as "It just wasn't my night." And he's right
You can go down the list of all the great fighters in their primes and you can find glitches. Often the great one has enough talent to still win but the victory is tainted. Joe Louis didn't exactly destroy Tommy Farr and Arturo Godoy(the first time).Ray Robinson was lucky to get a draw against Henry Brimm.Rocky Marciano had to crank it into overdrive the first time he went against Roland LaStarza to earn a split. Cassius clay didn't look the greatest against Doug Jones.
But all the greats had their off nights and it doesn't especially concern prizefighters. Mickey Mantle had roughly 3000 hits in 10,000 at bats.
"That means somewhere I went zero for 7000 ,"quipped The Mick.
Michael Jordan said he missed 16 shots at the buzzer that would have won the game.
Jim Brown against the Baltimore Colts didn't score a touchdown in the Browns only championship win during his tenure. And on the other end Johnny Unitus for Baltimore didn't throw a touchdown pass in that shutout loss. Shakespeare's Comedy Of Errors is a joke compared to Hamlet. Alfred Hitchcock's Marnie is a weak sister to Psycho and Rear Window.Beethoven's 8th Symphony seems trite coming after his 7th.FDR's eloquence eluded him when he made his pitch before Congress to stack the Supreme Court.
But people will always find an excuse for their heroes.When their arguments turn into whining then the credibility for their heroes become less credible. When you want to put Roberto Duran on Mount Rushmore that's going too far.
Roberto Duran's mug next to Abe Lincoln's. Wouldn't that be peachy?
I like when the pissing contests get going on the forum , the arguments about who was better than who. The fighters in question are usually two of the best.Sometimes they fought each other,or maybe not. Take for example Duran and Leonard. The evidence presented for dissing a particular fighter is his disappointing ring performances .To be fair these flubs should be fights when the fighter was in his prime.
We can look at Leonard and say his loss against Roberto the first time would be an example of a disappointing performance.Then in the rematch Roberto quit. 'Nuff said. Now at a seemingly standoff the the arguers will dig into the records to find examples of sub par efforts against other opponents. The bottom line with all great athletes is they have off nights. Mike Tyson is now doing a standup act that when he refers to the Douglas fight he shrugs it off as "It just wasn't my night." And he's right
You can go down the list of all the great fighters in their primes and you can find glitches. Often the great one has enough talent to still win but the victory is tainted. Joe Louis didn't exactly destroy Tommy Farr and Arturo Godoy(the first time).Ray Robinson was lucky to get a draw against Henry Brimm.Rocky Marciano had to crank it into overdrive the first time he went against Roland LaStarza to earn a split. Cassius clay didn't look the greatest against Doug Jones.
But all the greats had their off nights and it doesn't especially concern prizefighters. Mickey Mantle had roughly 3000 hits in 10,000 at bats.
"That means somewhere I went zero for 7000 ,"quipped The Mick.
Michael Jordan said he missed 16 shots at the buzzer that would have won the game.
Jim Brown against the Baltimore Colts didn't score a touchdown in the Browns only championship win during his tenure. And on the other end Johnny Unitus for Baltimore didn't throw a touchdown pass in that shutout loss. Shakespeare's Comedy Of Errors is a joke compared to Hamlet. Alfred Hitchcock's Marnie is a weak sister to Psycho and Rear Window.Beethoven's 8th Symphony seems trite coming after his 7th.FDR's eloquence eluded him when he made his pitch before Congress to stack the Supreme Court.
But people will always find an excuse for their heroes.When their arguments turn into whining then the credibility for their heroes become less credible. When you want to put Roberto Duran on Mount Rushmore that's going too far.
Roberto Duran's mug next to Abe Lincoln's. Wouldn't that be peachy?
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Hold The Hot Sauce
I sometimes talk about San Diego being a quirky sports town.I think it's the 7th largest city in the U.S. behind Phoenix. But Phoenix has major league baseball with the Diamondbacks;an NBA hoops franchise with the Suns,;the Cardinals are playing on the gridiron in the NFL;The Coyotes are on the ice in the NHL.San Diego has only one big time pro team, the baseball Padres. The pigskin Chargers hauled ass up tp LA when the voters in San Diego turned down a bill to erect a new stadium. Two NBA franchises couldn't make a go of it. Hockey was a no show.
When boxing in the Southland was going great guns in the 60's and 70's San Diego joined the fun with weekly cards at the San Diego Coliseum.But when they turned off the lights when the party was over I got to thinkin' about it. San Diego which is sandwiched between Los Angeles and Tijuana ,Mexico never featured a showcase Mexican fighter.Los Angeles has more Mexicans than Mexico's second largest city ,Guadalajara. And 20 minutes south of San Diego by auto there's Tijuana in a country all full of Mexicans,around 130 million give or take.
LA had the Chicano pugs like Mando Ramos;Bobby Chacon;Alberto Davila;Alberto Sandoval; Ruben Navarro;Joey Orbillo;the Ruelas brothers all headliners in The City Of Angels.But with the exception of Bobby Chacon,who fought a throw away fight at the end of his career at the Coliseum, none of the aforementioned ever laced up the gloves in the city at the end of the line,San Diego.
Then there were the historic confrontations of the Mexican national with the Chicano fighters. But these encounters were staged in Los Angeles. Or it was the Mexican star(didn't matter if it was homegrown or Mex/Amer)in the ring with a paleface , smoke,or Chopstick Charley. Because there were no top gun Mexica fighters plying their trade in San Diego it was a moot point.
San Diego's favorites were Ken Norton, Ronnie Wilson,Denny Moyer,and Art Hafey. Jack O'halloran hung around long enough for a cup of coffee but that was about it.David Love never really caught on. If I they held a gun to my head and I had to give a name of Mexican fighter who drew the most interest I'd say the light heavy,Amado Vasquez.But he lost twice to Mike Quarry.
Like I said,San Diego is a quirky sports town. In fact it's pretty quirky burg any way you look at it. But with that said,you can't beat the weather.
Bobby Chacon.Fought at the Coliseum when shouldn't have been fighting anymore.
I sometimes talk about San Diego being a quirky sports town.I think it's the 7th largest city in the U.S. behind Phoenix. But Phoenix has major league baseball with the Diamondbacks;an NBA hoops franchise with the Suns,;the Cardinals are playing on the gridiron in the NFL;The Coyotes are on the ice in the NHL.San Diego has only one big time pro team, the baseball Padres. The pigskin Chargers hauled ass up tp LA when the voters in San Diego turned down a bill to erect a new stadium. Two NBA franchises couldn't make a go of it. Hockey was a no show.
When boxing in the Southland was going great guns in the 60's and 70's San Diego joined the fun with weekly cards at the San Diego Coliseum.But when they turned off the lights when the party was over I got to thinkin' about it. San Diego which is sandwiched between Los Angeles and Tijuana ,Mexico never featured a showcase Mexican fighter.Los Angeles has more Mexicans than Mexico's second largest city ,Guadalajara. And 20 minutes south of San Diego by auto there's Tijuana in a country all full of Mexicans,around 130 million give or take.
LA had the Chicano pugs like Mando Ramos;Bobby Chacon;Alberto Davila;Alberto Sandoval; Ruben Navarro;Joey Orbillo;the Ruelas brothers all headliners in The City Of Angels.But with the exception of Bobby Chacon,who fought a throw away fight at the end of his career at the Coliseum, none of the aforementioned ever laced up the gloves in the city at the end of the line,San Diego.
Then there were the historic confrontations of the Mexican national with the Chicano fighters. But these encounters were staged in Los Angeles. Or it was the Mexican star(didn't matter if it was homegrown or Mex/Amer)in the ring with a paleface , smoke,or Chopstick Charley. Because there were no top gun Mexica fighters plying their trade in San Diego it was a moot point.
San Diego's favorites were Ken Norton, Ronnie Wilson,Denny Moyer,and Art Hafey. Jack O'halloran hung around long enough for a cup of coffee but that was about it.David Love never really caught on. If I they held a gun to my head and I had to give a name of Mexican fighter who drew the most interest I'd say the light heavy,Amado Vasquez.But he lost twice to Mike Quarry.
Like I said,San Diego is a quirky sports town. In fact it's pretty quirky burg any way you look at it. But with that said,you can't beat the weather.
Bobby Chacon.Fought at the Coliseum when shouldn't have been fighting anymore.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Preacher And The Phone Call
After the surge of the 60's and 70's in the boxing Southland the big fights started to take place in Las Vegas and the weekly local cards began dwindling.San Diego's fan interest focused on two fighters.One became a world title holder.The other should have been. Both were Texas grown but made there base of operations here in San Diego. Neither fighter fought at The Coliseum yet that old structure was still around.The weekly cards had vanished.IOnce in awhile there'd be some action but you'd have to check the papers to find that out.
When Terry Norris KO'd John Mugabi for the WBC light middleweight title we here in San Diego knew that that was no fluke.When Sugar Ray Leonard tried his first comeback he picked Norris as his opponent. Maybe Leonard thought that Norris had the credentials but didn't have the talent to beat him. That was a mistake. Norris was very sharp at the time.He was as fast and slick a boxer as there was. He was faster and slicker than Ray.
I watched Norris train with Gilbert Baptist at Spud Murphy's Gym downtown and out in the foothills at Joe Sayatovich's training facility in Campo. There was no way Leonard would be able to hang with him. Norris handled him easily.I thought if he would have pressed his attack there might have been a KO comin' but I guess Norris didn't want to take any chances.It looked like Norris was going to stay on top for a long time and be mentioned in the se breath with the 4 Kings but then Simon Brown put him to sleep in 4 rounds.There were some goofy DQ losses to Luis Santana. After that Norris never won a big fight.
James "The Heat" Kinchin was also around at the same time as Norris and more or less in the same weight category. Kinchin had three crossroads fights-Tommy Hearns,James Shuler,and Iran Barkley.He fought those guys in their neck of the woods and lost to all three by SD's.He got robbed but what else is new in the tawdry world of boxing? His manager was the local Bobby DiFilippis and maybe he should have looked out for him better. Anyway, KInchin staggered to the end winding up living in his van with his wife and kids and 40 bucks in his pocket. That's when he told me he found the Lord .He's a preacher now at The Helping hands Of God church of in Encanto east of the city.
I used to be a more or less attender at the Helping Hands Of God.Kinchin would tell me that Norris would call him up on the phone.Kinchin said he couldn't make sense of what he was saying.It was the dementia that had gotten him.
Both Terry Norris and James Kinchin left their marks here in San Diego. But you have to look real close to see them anymore.
James "the Heat" Kinchin
After the surge of the 60's and 70's in the boxing Southland the big fights started to take place in Las Vegas and the weekly local cards began dwindling.San Diego's fan interest focused on two fighters.One became a world title holder.The other should have been. Both were Texas grown but made there base of operations here in San Diego. Neither fighter fought at The Coliseum yet that old structure was still around.The weekly cards had vanished.IOnce in awhile there'd be some action but you'd have to check the papers to find that out.
When Terry Norris KO'd John Mugabi for the WBC light middleweight title we here in San Diego knew that that was no fluke.When Sugar Ray Leonard tried his first comeback he picked Norris as his opponent. Maybe Leonard thought that Norris had the credentials but didn't have the talent to beat him. That was a mistake. Norris was very sharp at the time.He was as fast and slick a boxer as there was. He was faster and slicker than Ray.
I watched Norris train with Gilbert Baptist at Spud Murphy's Gym downtown and out in the foothills at Joe Sayatovich's training facility in Campo. There was no way Leonard would be able to hang with him. Norris handled him easily.I thought if he would have pressed his attack there might have been a KO comin' but I guess Norris didn't want to take any chances.It looked like Norris was going to stay on top for a long time and be mentioned in the se breath with the 4 Kings but then Simon Brown put him to sleep in 4 rounds.There were some goofy DQ losses to Luis Santana. After that Norris never won a big fight.
James "The Heat" Kinchin was also around at the same time as Norris and more or less in the same weight category. Kinchin had three crossroads fights-Tommy Hearns,James Shuler,and Iran Barkley.He fought those guys in their neck of the woods and lost to all three by SD's.He got robbed but what else is new in the tawdry world of boxing? His manager was the local Bobby DiFilippis and maybe he should have looked out for him better. Anyway, KInchin staggered to the end winding up living in his van with his wife and kids and 40 bucks in his pocket. That's when he told me he found the Lord .He's a preacher now at The Helping hands Of God church of in Encanto east of the city.
I used to be a more or less attender at the Helping Hands Of God.Kinchin would tell me that Norris would call him up on the phone.Kinchin said he couldn't make sense of what he was saying.It was the dementia that had gotten him.
Both Terry Norris and James Kinchin left their marks here in San Diego. But you have to look real close to see them anymore.
James "the Heat" Kinchin
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
So Let's Get It On
Figured that fight the other night with Canelo was going to turn out the way it did. It was good of him to have fought in his backyard of Guadalajara.He said he did it for his country.Well, he thre them a bone but it was better than nothing.Being a superstar Mexican fighter he's cleaned up fighting in Las Vegas,and a lot of his opponents were no more qualified than that English bloke he fought the other night. So he took a smaller paycheck fighting in Mexico. He ain't going to the poorhouse.
Champions used to fight along the way like this years ago. Louis had his "Bum Of The Month Club." Ray Robinson would fight a slew of non title fights in tank towns.If you have the goods you should have the faith in your ability to beat a second rater. Besides,it's a good workout. Tune up fights are almost like sparring sessions but you get paid for it.
Now Canelo says he wats to go after Bivol again.Good.I just hope they don't put the fight off until next year. Canelo should fight another soft touch in the meantime.Maybe a couple of pushovers as long as his date with Bivol is in writing.But I'm not holding my breath. Canelo isn't the hungry fighter he used to be. His bank account is up there with Mayweather When he's not in the gym he's driving his Bugattis and bedding super models and starlets.One of his homes worth in the area of 10 million dollars and has an area of 12,000 square feet is tucked away in Del Mar, California in a gated community,and he's signed deals advertising everything from booze to boxing gear.
And to think that Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson were fighting at the end trying to eke out a living.
Canelo Alvarez
Figured that fight the other night with Canelo was going to turn out the way it did. It was good of him to have fought in his backyard of Guadalajara.He said he did it for his country.Well, he thre them a bone but it was better than nothing.Being a superstar Mexican fighter he's cleaned up fighting in Las Vegas,and a lot of his opponents were no more qualified than that English bloke he fought the other night. So he took a smaller paycheck fighting in Mexico. He ain't going to the poorhouse.
Champions used to fight along the way like this years ago. Louis had his "Bum Of The Month Club." Ray Robinson would fight a slew of non title fights in tank towns.If you have the goods you should have the faith in your ability to beat a second rater. Besides,it's a good workout. Tune up fights are almost like sparring sessions but you get paid for it.
Now Canelo says he wats to go after Bivol again.Good.I just hope they don't put the fight off until next year. Canelo should fight another soft touch in the meantime.Maybe a couple of pushovers as long as his date with Bivol is in writing.But I'm not holding my breath. Canelo isn't the hungry fighter he used to be. His bank account is up there with Mayweather When he's not in the gym he's driving his Bugattis and bedding super models and starlets.One of his homes worth in the area of 10 million dollars and has an area of 12,000 square feet is tucked away in Del Mar, California in a gated community,and he's signed deals advertising everything from booze to boxing gear.
And to think that Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson were fighting at the end trying to eke out a living.
Canelo Alvarez