My amateur Record...

[MikeKnight]

I'm Mike Knight. My Boxrec ID is ID#130200. You only have 3 of my 28 amateur fights listed on the site. Two are correct, one is not. I lost to Lonzo Barnes by RSC, not TKO. I sprained my ankle in the first round and the fight was stopped due to the injury. That was at the 1978 National AAU Tournament in Biloxi, Mississippi. I would appreciate the correction. Thank you.

[Controversial]

I'm Mike Knight. My Boxrec ID is ID#130200. You only have 3 of my 28 amateur fights listed on the site. Two are correct, one is not. I lost to Lonzo Barnes by RSC, not TKO. I sprained my ankle in the first round and the fight was stopped due to the injury. That was at the 1978 National AAU Tournament in Biloxi, Mississippi. I would appreciate the correction. Thank you.

I can't edit on here but boxrec uses TKO on their records, RSC and TKO effectively mean the same thing. They also use RTD (retired) so not sure if that's more accurate.

[MikeKnight]

Thanks...but on Boxrec, TKO is listed as a KO in the record heading. RSC is NOT listed as a KO on Boxrec. Even though they are essentially the same thing...RSC's are NOT listed as KO's. Only TKO's are listed as KO's. RSC's and TKO's are when the ref stops the fight, for whatever reason. A KO is when there is a 10 count and the fighter can't get up. But on Boxrec, TKO's are listed as KO's...and RSC's are NOT listed as KO's in the loss column.

[MikeKnight]

Here's the record of one of my old Air Force Boxing Team teammates...Notice the RSC is not listed as a KO.

[Controversial]

One for the mods to answer then, I can’t say I’ve noticed RSC on boxrec records before. Maybe a glitch? For me RSC and TKO are the same thing though so should be counted as a KO win or loss. Even though technically no 10 count given. Otherwise using the rule that RSC doesn’t count as a KO a fighter could be knocked unconscious and the fight immediately stopped without a count, if recorded as RSC it wouldn’t be recorded as a KO. Or a fighter gets stopped on his feet and it isn’t counted as a stoppage win if listed as RSC and not TKO

RTD (retired) also gets counted as a stoppage in the KO column, for example Donovan Razor Ruddock retired on his stool at end of a round after an asthma attack and quit, that has been counted as a KO loss on his record and a KO win for his opponent David Jaco.

[MikeKnight]

Actually, RSC is used quite a bit on Boxrec. Here's Woody Clark's amateur record. It is full of TKOs and RSCs. https://boxrec.com/en/box-am/1058
He has 4 KO's listed on his Loss column...he had 3 TKO's and 1 KO loss for a total of 4. He had 2 RSC's...neither of them are counted in the "Loss By KO" column.
There are countless others, you just have to look. Most are amateur records. I posted one above, Wade Walker.
His fight was stopped...and given an RSC, not a TKO or KO. My fight against Lonzo Barnes is listed as an RSC in
the newspaper (I attached it in my first post), but Boxrec is classifying it as a TKO/KO.
I've never been counted out. I have always finished on my feet. So this "TKO" is not accurate on my record.
If Boxrec is going to misrepresent my record, I am requesting that they just delete the whole thing. Thank you.

[Controversial]

I don’t really look at amateur records closely so maybe that’s why I’ve never noticed, hopefully one of the mods can reply and shed more light on it, maybe they record it differently on amateur records.

[MikeKnight]

Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

[Controversial]

Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

I was just looking on these forums and others have queried the RSC and TKO issue with RSC not counting towards the KO stat. It seems to be unique to the amateur records, maybe because clean KO’s are rare in the amateurs and refs err on the side of caution more because there are more novices fighting so they stop fights quicker, sometimes when they don’t look to be in trouble. I’d be interested to hear the official line here too. Any mods able to comment on this?

[MikeKnight]

Here's a writeup from one of my wins...as an amateur. It was the USA/ABF (AAU) Tournament in Sioux City, Iowa, that took place on February 28, 1981. It was in the 201 lbs. Heavyweight division. A 1st round KO over Jeff Shubert. It was a 10 second count knockout, not a TKO or an RSC. I had the only KO of the tournament. My next fight was against Roger Pepel, in Grand Island, Nebraska. I KO'd him in round 2. Not TKO, it was a 10 count KO win. Here's the writeup from the Sioux City fight. You might recognize the name Terry Christensen at 147, he had a great career.

[Controversial]

Here's a writeup from one of my wins...as an amateur. It was the USA/ABF (AAU) Tournament in Sioux City, Iowa, that took place on February 28, 1981. It was in the 201 lbs. Heavyweight division. A 1st round KO over Jeff Shubert. It was a 10 second count knockout, not a TKO or an RSC. I had the only KO of the tournament. My next fight was against Roger Pepel, in Grand Island, Nebraska. I KO'd him in round 2. Not TKO, it was a 10 count KO win. Here's the writeup from the Sioux City fight. You might recognize the name Terry Christensen at 147, he had a great career.

Nice! Yes sure KOs do happen in the amateurs, I just meant they aren’t as common as they are in pro fights. Especially these days where they seem to stop fights a lot quicker. Maybe ask boxrec to add your other results too. I just looked at your record, you had a couple of pro fights, how come you stopped?

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/130200

[MikeKnight]

Thanks! I actually had 28 total amateur fights, 18 wins, 10 by knockout (actually 7 KO's w/10 counts, 3 TKOS), 10 Losses. I lost to James "Bonecrusher" Smith in 1977 in Germany, I weighed 183, he was 235. He knocked me down 3 times, but I kept bouncing back up and moving forward, I was moving forward when they stopped the fight because of the "3 knockdown rule". I actually wasn't hurt. I've been hurt worse in sparring with Lamont Kirkland (1980 Middleweight National Golden Gloves Champion). I lost to Tommy Sullivan in 1973 at the National Junior Olympics, he beat Michael Spinks in 1975 when he won the National Golden Gloves. Sullivan also won the Pan Am Games. I lost to Bennie Heard in 1981, he knocked me down, I jumped up and started throwing puches in the air, showing the ref I was okay, but they stopped it because I didn't have my gloves under my chin...lol. I had other refs coming up to me right after the fight, telling me that the would not have stopped the fight. I beat Howard Lake, who was rated in the top 10 for years, in the All Air Force Box-off in 1980. He beat me in an AAU Tournament shortly afterward, they stopped the fight because my nose was bleeding? lol. It wasn't even that bad...but at that point it didn't matter, I missed my shot at the Olympic Trials because I lost the All Air Force tournament in the finals against Stanley Butler, in what was called a robbery, as I gave him about 5 total "standing 8 counts" in the bout, they still gave him the decision, he was the defending Air Force Champion and he was 6'4" to my 5'11" so I think the coaches thought it would be advantageous to take Butler to the Interservice instead of me. He lost to James Broad that year, 1980, in the finals of the Interservice Tournament. Broad went on to win the Olympic Trials...but we didn't go to the Olympics anyway, so it dosn't really matter. I have a scrap book with my results...so I can prove my fights. I stopped Roger Pepel in round 2, he was the 1980 National Junior Olympic Heavyweight Champion. Another highlight of my career is when I KO'd Randy Cullen, who was 6'8", in a heavyweight fight in Blair, Nebraska in 1980. I hit him with one uppercut in the 3rd round and he went out. I won the Outstanding Boxer Award trophy for that fight. Here's my record:

[MikeKnight]

The reason why I stopped boxing professionally was, I moved from Florida to Nebraska, had a couple of fights cancelled there, one was going to be in Minnesota on a Scott LeDoux card, but he got cut so it got cancelled. Then I moved to California and was training with Will Edgington, Tony Lopez's trainer...I had another fight cancelled that was supposed to take place in Mexico...I got an offer to work for the Dept of Corrections as a prison guard, with a good retirement plan, so I took it. I'm glad I did.

[Controversial]

Thanks! I actually had 28 total amateur fights, 18 wins, 10 by knockout (actually 7 KO's w/10 counts, 3 TKOS), 10 Losses. I lost to James "Bonecrusher" Smith in 1977 in Germany, I weighed 183, he was 235. He knocked me down 3 times, but I kept bouncing back up and moving forward, I was moving forward when they stopped the fight because of the "3 knockdown rule". I actually wasn't hurt. I've been hurt worse in sparring with Lamont Kirkland (1980 Middleweight National Golden Gloves Champion). I lost to Tommy Sullivan in 1973 at the National Junior Olympics, he beat Michael Spinks in 1975 when he won the National Golden Gloves. Sullivan also won the Pan Am Games. I lost to Bennie Heard in 1981, he knocked me down, I jumped up and started throwing puches in the air, showing the ref I was okay, but they stopped it because I didn't have my gloves under my chin...lol. I had other refs coming up to me right after the fight, telling me that the would not have stopped the fight. I beat Howard Lake, who was rated in the top 10 for years, in the All Air Force Box-off in 1980. He beat me in an AAU Tournament shortly afterward, they stopped the fight because my nose was bleeding? lol. It wasn't even that bad...but at that point it didn't matter, I missed my shot at the Olympic Trials because I lost the All Air Force tournament in the finals against Stanley Butler, in what was called a robbery, as I gave him about 5 total "standing 8 counts" in the bout, they still gave him the decision, he was the defending Air Force Champion and he was 6'4" to my 5'11" so I think the coaches thought it would be advantageous to take Butler to the Interservice instead of me. He lost to James Broad that year, 1980, in the finals of the Interservice Tournament. Broad went on to win the Olympic Trials...but we didn't go to the Olympics anyway, so it dosn't really matter. I have a scrap book with my results...so I can prove my fights. I stopped Roger Pepel in round 2, he was the 1980 National Junior Olympic Heavyweight Champion. Another highlight of my career is when I KO'd Randy Cullen, who was 6'8", in a heavyweight fight in Blair, Nebraska in 1980. I hit him with one uppercut in the 3rd round and he went out. I won the Outstanding Boxer Award trophy for that fight.

Wow sounds like you were pretty decent! Interesting read, have you got any good stories about guys you’ve sparred or met?

[Controversial]

The reason why I stopped boxing professionally was, I moved from Florida to Nebraska, had a couple of fights cancelled there, one was going to be in Minnesota on a Scott LeDoux card, but he got cut so it got cancelled. Then I moved to California and was training with Will Edgington, Tony Lopez's trainer...I had another fight cancelled that was supposed to take place in Mexico...I got an offer to work for the Dept of Corrections as a prison guard, with a good retirement plan, so I took it. I'm glad I did.

You never missed fighting then? A secure job probably the better option as more secure than embarking on a boxing career that could be full of pitfalls, injuries etc

[MikeKnight]

I kind of missed it, especially at the beginning, when I was younger. I started working as a guard in 1983, at the end of 1984, I got a call from Will Edgington, he wanted me to make a comeback. On my days off I would drive 2.5 hours to Sacramento from Monterey, where I was living at the time. He had kickboxing champion (before he became champion) Dennis Alexio training in the gym. I thought, finally someone close to my size that I could spar with. We were both around 190 lbs. at the time. However, Will told me he would not let Alexio even spar with me...and told me I would "kill him", so I wasn't allowed to spar with him. lol. Anyway, I had become "civilized" after being away from the sport, and since I wasn't 100% committed to it anymore, I decided not to make the comeback. That was at the end of 1984. By 1988 I was married....and later had 3 sons. They don't fight, but they know how to fight.

[MikeKnight]

Thanks, yes I do have some stories. I sparred with Mike McCallum in Tampa....when he was in the gym on the week of his fight in Tampa in October 1981. We moved around the ring for a couple of rounds. They told me just to jab around with him...I could tell he was a smart fight...he was moving around, trying to set me up for shots, I could see that. On the Air Force Boxing Team, I used to move around with Roger Leonard, he was a smart fight too...the same thing with him, the movement to set you up for shots. I learned a lot from Roger. I sparred with Marvin Camel in Omaha, he was training for a fight...I hadn't been training in awhile, but he needed sparring partners for an upcoming fight, so I sparred a few rounds with him. He was fairly easy to hit, and he wobbled on the ropes one time...and I barely hit him. So that was good for my ego. lol.

[Controversial]

Interesting stuff there Mike, must be great to have those experiences and tales to tell.

[MikeKnight]

Thanks a lot. Yeah, life was interesting for sure. Lucky I had the opportunity to work with some of the best fighters of my era. I worked with Tony Ayala's dad for awhile too. Their gym in San Antonio was legendary.

[Controversial]

Thanks a lot. Yeah, life was interesting for sure. Lucky I had the opportunity to work with some of the best fighters of my era. I worked with Tony Ayala's dad for awhile too. Their gym in San Antonio was legendary.

Did you meet Ayala Jr?

[MikeKnight]

Yes. I drove to Corpus Christi, Texas with them, in their car :). Tony Sr. worked my corner, along with Joe Souza at the 1978 South Texas AAU Tournament. I had 2 fights in 2 days (at 178 lbs), won the first one by TKO, the 2nd fight I won by decision. That earned me the spot at the 1978 National AAU Tournament in Biloxi, Missippi. Unfortunately, I sprained my ankle in first round and I was out of the competition. Here's the results from the South Texas AAU tournament.

[Controversial]

Yes. I drove to Corpus Christi, Texas with them, in their car :). Tony Sr. worked my corner, along with Joe Souza at the 1978 South Texas AAU Tournament. I had 2 fights in 2 days (at 178 lbs), won the first one by TKO, the 2nd fight I won by decision. That earned me the spot at the 1978 National AAU Tournament in Biloxi, Missippi. Unfortunately, I sprained my ankle in first round and I was out of the competition. Here's the results from the South Texas AAU tournament.

What was Jnr like? Obviously he ended up being a nasty piece of work!!

[MikeKnight]

He was a quiet kid. Respectful. He developed a problem with alcohol, that, coupled with the fact that he got disrespected by a girl, when he was younger. I don't want to get into that, but from what I read, she was talking shit about the size of his "manhood". That doesn't give him the right to do what he did though, that's for sure, but he couldn't handle it mentally. Most great fighters aren't exactly "normal" anyway...but he was a machine in the ring. He grew up in the gym, so boxing was what he knew. HIs dad trained his sons to fight...and that's what they did.

[Controversial]

He was a quiet kid. Respectful. He developed a problem with alcohol, that, coupled with the fact that he got disrespected by a girl, when he was younger. I don't want to get into that, but from what I read, she was talking shit about the size of his "manhood". That doesn't give him the right to do what he did though, that's for sure, but he couldn't handle it mentally. Most great fighters aren't exactly "normal" anyway...but he was a machine in the ring. He grew up in the gym, so boxing was what he knew. HIs dad trained his sons to fight...and that's what they did.

Interesting. Yes of course nothing excuses what he did

[MikeKnight]

MIKE KNIGHT'S AMATEUR BOXING RECORD
1973
156 LBS.
06/15/73 SCOTT CLARK WIN-DEC3 - JR. OLYMPIC DISTRICT BOXING CHAMPIONSHIPS - ORLANDO, FL
(OUTSTANDING BOXER AWARD)
07/14/73 UNKNOWN WIN-DEC3 - JR. OLYMPIC REGIONAL BOXING CHAMPIONSHIPS - ORLANDO, FL
07/18/73 SCOTT CLARK WIN-DEC3 - ORLANDO SPORTS STADIUM - ORLANDO, FL
08/10/73 TOM SULLIVAN LOSS-RET1 - JR. OLYMPIC NATIONAL BOXING TOURNAMENT - CHEYENNE, WY
(RETIRED IN CORNER BETWEEN 1ST AND 2ND ROUND - RTD)

1974
178 LBS.
09/23/74 BOBBY BESSENT WIN-KO1 (32 sec) - ORLANDO SPORTS STADIUM - ORLANDO, FL

1977
HEAVYWEIGHT (178+)
11/05/77 JAMES SMITH LOSS-RSC1 - VILSECK, GERMANY (JAMES "BONECRUSHER" SMITH)
(REFEREE STOPPED CONTEST DUE TO 3 KNOCKDOWN RULE)
178 LBS.
12/10/77 WILLIE BANKS WIN-DEC3 - PIRMASENS, GERMANY

1978
178 LBS.
01/14/78 DARVIN STARGELL WIN-DEC3 - BAUMHOLDER, GERMANY
02/04/78 LOUIS BENNETT WIN-TKO2 - CONTINENTAL SPORTS CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS- RHEIN-MAIN, GERMANY
02/10/78 STEVEN MUNIZ WIN-KO2 - USAFE BOXING TOURNAMENT- UPPER HEYFORD, ENGLAND
02/11/78 ROBERT JONES WIN-KO3 - USAFE BOXING TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONSHIPS- UPPER HEYFORD, ENGLAND
03/31/78 CRAIG WHITE WIN-TKO3 - SOUTH TEXAS AAU BOXING TOURNAMENT - CORPUS CHRISTI, TX
04/01/78 KEVIN WOODEN WIN-DEC3 - SOUTH TEXAS AAU BOXING TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONSHIPS - CORPUS CHRISTI, TX
04/19/78 LONZO BARNES LOSS-RSCI1 - NATIONAL AAU BOXING TOURNAMENT - BILOXI, MS
(REFEREE STOPPED CONTEST DUE TO INJURY - SPRAINED ANKLE)
09/30/78 UNKNOWN LOSS-DEC3 - PIRMASENS, GERMANY

1979
HEAVYWEIGHT (178+)
03/09/79 RICK REDFORD WIN-KO2 - KANSAS/OKLAHOMA GOLDEN GLOVES TOURNAMENT - HUTCHINSON, KS
03/10/79 RICHARD CADE LOSS-DEC3 - KANSAS/OKLAHOMA GOLDEN GLOVES CHAMPIONSHIPS - HUTCHINSON, KS
04/07/79 WILLIE FEAGIN LOSS-DEC3 - MIDWEST AAU HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS - SIOUX CITY, IA
(ALSO SPELLED WILLIE "FAGAN" ON BOXREC.COM)

1980
HEAVYWEIGHT (178+)
02/15/80 RANDY CULLEN WIN-KO3 - BLAIR EAGLES BOXING TOURNAMENT - BLAIR, NE
(OUTSTANDING BOXER AWARD)
03/14/80 HOWARD LAKE WIN-DEC3 - ALL AIR FORCE BOXING TOURNAMENT - SAN ANTONIO, TX
03/15/80 STAN BUTLER LOSS-DEC3 - ALL AIR FORCE BOXING TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONSHIPS - SAN ANTONIO, TX
04/25/80 GILBERT SALDANA WIN-TKO2 - SOUTH TEXAS AAU BOXING TOURNAMENT - SAN ANTONIO, TX
04/26/80 HOWARD LAKE LOSS-RSC1 - SOUTH TEXAS AAU BOXING TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONSHIPS, SAN ANTONIO, TX (REFEREE STOPPED CONTEST DUE TO BLOODY NOSE)
11/22/80 UNKNOWN WIN-DEC3 - OMAHA, NE

1981
178 LBS.
01/31/81 STAN SMITH LOSS-DEC3 - OMAHA CITY GOLDEN GLOVES CHAMPIONSHIPS - OMAHA, NE
HEAVYWEIGHT 201 LBS.
02/28/81 JEFF SHUBERT WIN-KO1 (27 sec) - MIDWEST AAU (USA/ABF) HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS - SIOUX CITY, IA
05/02/81 ROGER PEPEL WIN-KO2 - REGION 9 - USA/ABF BOXING CHAMPIONSHIPS - GRAND ISLAND, NE
05/19/81 BENNIE HEARD LOSS-RSC1 - USA/ABF NATIONAL BOXING TOURNAMENT - CONCORD, CA
(REFEREE STOPPED CONTEST DUE TO GLOVES NOT BEING HELD UP TO CHIN DURING
8 COUNT AFTER A KNOCKDOWN)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOTAL AMATEUR FIGHTS - 28

18 WINS (10 BY KO) - 10 LOSSES (5 BY RSC)
BOXREC.COM WOULD LIST MY RECORD AS -
18 WINS (10 KOs) - 10 LOSSES (5 KOs)