Louis L'Amour

[HomicideHenry]

I always read in the back of those novels by author Louis L'Amour that as a younger man he won 51 out of 59 professional bouts as a boxer. Now I do know that Louis L'Amour went under a few aliases, most notably "Duke" LaMoore and Michael "Micky" Moore.

I have done research on him and the only fighters that I know of that L'Amour ever fought or was connected with are the following men:


Turk Madden- L'Amour would later use this man's name for a character in his novels. L'Amour fought several exhibitions with him in the 20's.

Frank Moran- Louis either fought him or met him when Louis was a "club second". Moran fought Jack Johnson I believe and was murdered after not taking a dive against professional wrestler Wayne Munn. Ironically L'Amour would often write boxing stories centered around the mob.

Guardsman Penwill- Louis either fought or boxed him while Louis was stationed in England in the 20's. Penwill's most notable fight [that I know of] was against 'great white hope' Billy Wells who was aiming for Jack Johnson.

Timmy Pinto- Louis either fought or boxed him while Louis worked in a factory in Portland, Oregon.

Johnny Annette

Dynamite Jackson

Joe May

********************************************************

The following men were born before 1909:

Johnny "Kid" Stomper
Jack Horan
"Kid" Yates
Butch Vierthaler [Bill Thaler]
Ira O'Neil
Jimmy Roberts
Jimmy Russo
Jack McGraf
Jackie Jones

These men Louis met in the 30's or early 40's and either fought them or had worked shows with them or might even have managed or promoted them.

Does anyone know L'Amour's full record?

[Ezzard]

IRM

What I know of L'Amour was that he talked a lot of cr*p. I wouldn't believe much of what he wrote or said. One of my literary heroes, Jim Thompson, started off as a good friend of L'Amour only to turn away from him as L'Amour lied and fabricated constantly to try and create his own legend.

I'm willing to stand corrected of course but I'm sure whatever claims he has made have been blown out of proportion.

[barry]

Ezz is very correct and when it comes to boxing...Louis may have had 59 fights in his mind, but it's doubtful if he ever had a pro fight, much less have won, what 52 of 59...supposedly at heavyweight...complete nonsense!

[Ezzard]

Ezz is very correct and when it comes to boxing...Louis may have had 59 fights in his mind, but it's doubtful if he ever had a pro fight, much less have won, what 52 of 59...supposedly at heavyweight...complete nonsense!

Thanks, Barry

This is pretty much what I suspected.

[barry]

I've researched the heavyweights of that era pretty well and I have never, ever came across L'Amour and I doubt that he fought under any alias. He may have had a couple of fights, which is also doubtful, but he most certainly did not have anything that would have made him known and a heavyweight who was 51-8, well, he would have been pretty well known..even if he was no good.

[tagjohnson]

Although I liked his books L'Amour was full of it. He also claimed to have been a captain of tank destroyers during WWII. After his death he turned out to have been a truck driver stateside.

[blamour]

I was here doing some other research when I ran onto this thread. So, a quick response ...

As the man's son I have researched the life of Louis L'Amour as extensively as anyone and found many records of him boxing under several different names. I have no idea how fights were tabulated in the 1920s and by the 1930s LL had moved on to coaching and promoting boxers. However, his approach and that of others at the time was to have different names for differing levels of condition or expectations regarding the difficulty of the bout. This way he could keep a certain "boxing identity" clear of those fights he had to take with inadequate preparation just to keep eating. Because of this it is impossible to know the full extent of his or other boxers records in this time period. I am not an expert in boxing history but what went on outside of the major cities in those days seems to have been a bit chaotic. Dad often said that you could never equate the career of a "modern" (post WWII) fighter and one from before that period. In the early days there were just so many boxers fighting so many bouts that a career like his (regardless of many fights he had) was an insignificant drop in the bucket. I expect that today 59 fights might be a good career, back then (according to him) it was completely insignificant. That is not to say he wouldn't brag about it ... but he had a sense of proportion too.

Louis was great at producing a romantic vision of his own life. He was an entertainer and fantastic at self promotion. That must be understood. On the other hand, I am aware of bouts in New Mexico, Arizona and Oregon that were in the local news if not the official record. There are hints of many more. 59 "professional" fights? I have no idea. Dozens of local bouts that he was paid for? Certainly.

Posters on this thread cite Jim Thompson and LL's record in WWII.

Thompson was a dark and moody character who was no doubt irritated by LL's relentless optimism, ego and self promotion (elements that were closely entwined) but many of the people LL met in Oklahoma in the 1930s could hardly believe he had traveled to the Far East (I have records) and done some of the things he did on his own as a teenager. Thompson was still in LL's life to a slight extent in the 1970s ... I know that because as a kid, I met him several times when he and Dad were going to lunch. In the '30 LL was a barely tolerated hanger on in Jim's circle but by the 1970s LL was vastly more successful. If the info quoted in this thread came from the JT bio "Savage Art," I would suggest that it was the opinion of the people the biographer interviewed. I knew some of them and they had little conception of what my dad had and had not done. As a young man LL seems to have been hard to take but that doesn't mean he was a liar in every instance, just irritating. The two are far from the same thing.

LL did his Officer's Candidate School at Camp Hood, Texas but was the second oldest member of his class. He served with the 607th TD Battalion and the 808th stateside but, by the time they were ready to deploy he was too old (34 I believe) to serve in a combat unit ... there were many older soldiers and Guardsman but they had been permanently placed with their units and deployed before their 34th birthday. While with the 808th LL managed/coached the 808ths Golden Gloves team, which did well enough in the semi finals to get to the Championships in Chicago. Because of the age thing he was then assigned to a Quartermaster Truck Company. He ran gasoline tankers supplying armor fighting in Normandy, eastern France, Holland and Germany.

In doing my research I never relied on anything dad said or wrote except to lead me to additional, hopefully objective, sources. But being LL's son has often resembled the movie Big Fish, where I knew to take his stories with a grain of salt. Actually researching his life has taught me that there was a great deal of truth to the stories he told.

[Ezzard]

Well I do stand corrected. And thank you for putting me straight on this.

I really shouldn’t have been so dismissive. In my defence it was almost 7 years ago. I was a fool back then. Now I’m cured of that ailment.

I would not usually be so candid, probably send a personal message, but as I made claims in public I should at least try to put things right here.

My American co-writer is managed by the same guy who used to work for the managers or agents of Thompson (towards the end). He also has friends from that crowd. I don’t know all the details. I’m sort of two steps removed. The whole gang of them pretty much back up what you say. Thompson was a drunk. He became cynical and bitter when his work was neglected and all out of print when he died.

Much in “Savage Art” is made about the perceived Peckinpah betrayal that sent Thompson over the edge…but it appears from the people I know that Thompson had been cranky for some time. Like most writers, hating everyone else’s success is par for the course, I’m afraid.

Your father was a very successful writer. I’m sure it stuck in Thompson’s throat. And as Thompson slowly became the literary hero he is today people became more and more prone to believe whatever he said.

I know I have.

I apologise for dismissing your father’s boxing success. With the writing, the fighting and his time in the military he had a really amazing life. And self-publicity is all part of the game for writers and artists.

I feel like I should dig out one of your father’s books and give it a read.

Good luck with your research.

[wouter]

Louis was great at producing a romantic vision of his own life. He was an entertainer and fantastic at self promotion. That must be understood. On the other hand, I am aware of bouts in New Mexico, Arizona and Oregon that were in the local news if not the official record. There are hints of many more. 59 "professional" fights? I have no idea. Dozens of local bouts that he was paid for? Certainly.

Thanks for all the information. Are you able to give us details of the fights that you have been able to find? Thus far, we have only 1 bout here that with certainty belongs to your father:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

There is also this bout in our database that might belong to your father, although he would have been very young, or perhaps to another relative of yours:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Any information you have will be greatly appreciated.

[klompton]

Moran was not murdered.

[blamour]

" In my defence it was almost 7 years ago. I was a fool back then. Now I’m cured of that ailment."

Hysterical! I've GOT to remember this one ... it could get me out of many mistakes I've made or will make!

I get the feeling that Thompson was pretty crabby back in the 1930s ... it kind of makes sense, you don't write like he did and live a life full of sweetness and light. Dad just ignored things like that. In later life, after I was born, he had a great ability to bring out the best in people and the personality quirks that tended to cause people to think him a fool matured into simple and deserved confidence.

Polito, the author of Savage Art, certainly could have called me (as I called him) to check on his L'Amour information. However, he was doing a bio of Thompson, not LL, and it's for certain that he heard the things he wrote about first hand from some Oklahoma sources who were ignorant of Louis's entire story.

The two links mentioned by Wouter ARE LL. He boxed a few more times in Prescott and may have also done so in Jamestown. The family left in '23, so anything after that is not him. The image doesn't have a home on the internet so I can't give you a link but in the back of the Louis L'Amour graphic novel "Law of the Desert Born" there is a photograph of a poster from Santa Rosa, NM advertising a fight between Kid Mortio and Battling Leonard. LL was Battling Leonard. He also fought as Battling or Jack Leonard in Louisiana and perhaps Texas. That was 1925, I think. I have a few other references but they are buried deep. I'm going to write a biography of Dad as soon as get some other projects out of the way and so I've been storing up information. The above mentioned Graphic Novel will be out on Sept. 17th in the US.

Louis left behind a Second's Card from Ventura, CA dated '26 or '28 ... probably '28 given he was out of the country for most of '26. After he stopped boxing Dad trained Golden Gloves fighters in the Oklahoma City area throughout the 1930s.

If anyone finds any more information I'd love to know. LL also boxed as Michael "Mikey" Moore and Mickey McGuire, McQuire or something like that, however, I'm sure there were dozens who also took those names.

Beau L'Amour

[Jack The Nonpareil]

I have long known that the great populist writer of the American west was an ex-pug. Had not made myself aware that his dealings in this capacity extended much beyond semi-pro smoker level; but a pug he was, nevertheless.
Good stuff here.
As an aside; I'm sure that I've misread what you had intended to state, but long time top man Frank Moran; The Fighting Dentist, lived to a ripe old age and died without the intervention of any malice.

[JMac]

I feel like I should dig out one of your father’s books and give it a read.

One of my favorite books by LL is "Last of the Breed" about a Native American air force pilot who is shot down over Siberia and escapes prison and is tracked by a Native Russian.

I think I may have to pick up a copy of "Education of a Wondering Man". I just looked some reviews and it looks like an interesting book.

[HomicideHenry]

Moran was not murdered.

I do stand corrected; I meant Andre Anderson. For some reason I mix up Anderson and Moran from time to time. My apologies.

[HomicideHenry]

Bump....

I wonder if his son found more fights. BoxRec only lists three so far of the alleged 59, and considering the disparity in years between each bout, most definitely he fought often.

[Caractacus]

I feel like I should dig out one of your father’s books and give it a read.

One of my favorite books by LL is "Last of the Breed" about a Native American air force pilot who is shot down over Siberia and escapes prison and is tracked by a Native Russian.

I think I may have to pick up a copy of "Education of a Wondering Man". I just looked some reviews and it looks like an interesting book.

yeah,Education of a Wandering Man was a terrific read,I especially remember reading were he was a young man travelling during the Great Depression. It was one of the last books I read at the local public library here before they got rid of the ENTIRE Biography,Autobiography
books section at the Public library here a few years ago (Communists at work trying to erase history no doubt).

[1259437]

Bill Thaler (real name William Vierthaler) is my great uncle. His last boxing match did happen to be with Louis L'Amour.
Louis L'Amour fought under the alias Louis LaMoore

[HomicideHenry]

Bill Thaler (real name William Vierthaler) is my great uncle. His last boxing match did happen to be with Louis L'Amour.
Louis L'Amour fought under the alias Louis LaMoore

Awesome update!

[wouter]

Bill Thaler (real name William Vierthaler) is my great uncle. His last boxing match did happen to be with Louis L'Amour.
Louis L'Amour fought under the alias Louis LaMoore

The fight with Louis L’Amour was actually Thaler’s first bout. L’Amour fought under the name of Mickey Moore

[Controversial]

Ezz is very correct and when it comes to boxing...Louis may have had 59 fights in his mind, but it's doubtful if he ever had a pro fight, much less have won, what 52 of 59...supposedly at heavyweight...complete nonsense!

Changing subjects what happened to Barry who made this post?

[margaret thatcher]

quite the bullsh!tter louis was

[margaret thatcher]

Bill Thaler (real name William Vierthaler) is my great uncle. His last boxing match did happen to be with Louis L'Amour.
Louis L'Amour fought under the alias Louis LaMoore

predictably your great uncle bill beat lying louis

[wouter]

Louis L'Amour did some fighting, but the record mentioned in his books is nowhere near accurate. Louis's son Beau posted here a few years back by the way.

[HomicideHenry]

Louis L'Amour did some fighting, but the record mentioned in his books is nowhere near accurate. Louis's son Beau posted here a few years back by the way.

As far as we know.

It's hard to pinpoint a lot of people's careers back then.

I mean hell, Jimmy Wilde had like a hundred fights while working athletic shows in carnivals and I don't see them listed on his pro record even though technically they were pro fights because they were cash fights.

Louis L'Amour fought mostly in carnival athletic shows, and also in organized bouts under various aliases. I imagine it would take decades of pain staking research to remotely compile something close to the 59 bouts he claimed.

I talked to his son a few years ago and he said he was working to track down the matches, because he was writing different volumes on his dad's life. I mean a lot of the stories the man wrote have yet to be republished after decades which is why they keep cranking out new books from Louis L'Amour, because they keep finding old material in magazines and newspapers that haven't seen the light of day in ages. So one can imagine how much harder it is to find boxing matches.

[margaret thatcher]

isnt it funny that of the supposed 51-8, an excellent record numerically, all the fights we can find are losses lol

louis was a fiction writer, his son even admitted he liked to romanticize himself. unless youre guillable it's obvious what happened.