Alfredo Evangelista

[franciscojavier]

You often hear his name thrown around as a synonym for how Ali was taking it easy later on, or as a synonym for somebody who got an undeserving shot at the heavyweight title, but looking through footage of some of his fights including the Ali fight, he had decent power and some skills. He caught Ali with sneaky right uppercuts and got in good left hooks while pinning him against the ropes. Also he was a genuine top 10-rated contender by the Ring in the late 70’s, generally hovering around the number 7 or 8 spot(He was rated number 6 when Holmes fought him according to their Top 100 series of articles). He certainly wasn’t a world-beater but he was a solid contender in his day, and probably would’ve won an alphabet title and made a defense or two if he were born 30-40 years later. He just happens to look very bad because he was competing in the greatest heavyweight era of all time.

(Also obviously not a relevant point to how good of a fighter one is, but dude is very interesting and has some stories to tell, from his tumultuous life to his friendship with guys like Roberto Duran. Also very funny to watch the press conferences between him and Ali, dude was surprisingly good at trash talk lol. If you speak Spanish there are interesting interviews of him on YouTube.)

[Joson]

You often hear his name thrown around as a synonym for how Ali was taking it easy later on, or as a synonym for somebody who got an undeserving shot at the heavyweight title, but looking through footage of some of his fights including the Ali fight, he had decent power and some skills. He caught Ali with sneaky right uppercuts and got in good left hooks while pinning him against the ropes. Also he was a genuine top 10-rated contender by the Ring in the late 70’s, generally hovering around the number 7 or 8 spot(He was rated number 6 when Holmes fought him according to their Top 100 series of articles). He certainly wasn’t a world-beater but he was a solid contender in his day, and probably would’ve won an alphabet title and made a defense or two if he were born 30-40 years later. He just happens to look very bad because he was competing in the greatest heavyweight era of all time.

(Also obviously not a relevant point to how good of a fighter one is, but dude is very interesting and has some stories to tell, from his tumultuous life to his friendship with guys like Roberto Duran. Also very funny to watch the press conferences between him and Ali, dude was surprisingly good at trash talk lol. If you speak Spanish there are interesting interviews of him on YouTube.)

I remember the late '70s and early '80s very well. Evangelista was just a top-20 or top-15 heavyweight at best. No better.

The only reason Evangelista penetrated the top-ten is that, by the late '70s, lots of better guys had retired or drifted away from boxing. I'm talking about Foreman, Frazier, Bugner, Bonavena, and Quarry, to name a few. The division was simply thin in talent during the 1977 to 1979 period.

Evanglista's power wasn't anything special. His skill set was only average at best.

If you check the 1977 to 1979 period ratings, you'll see lots of mediocrities in the line-up. Scott Ledoux, Lorenzo Zanon, Leroy Jones, Ossie Occasio, Leon Spinks, and Domingo D'Ellia come to mind. Kallie Knoetze's status was very "iffy."

Ali was totally shot when he fought Evangelista in 1977. Probably out of shape too. Evangelista's eighth round KO loss to Holmes is a better measure of his ability than the Ali bout.

Evangelista's only significant win was his 1983 nod over Renaldo Snipes. That fight truly counted for something, IMO. But I never learned the details of that bout. I think Snipes must have underperformed, although I admit I haven't seen the film.

[franciscojavier]

You often hear his name thrown around as a synonym for how Ali was taking it easy later on, or as a synonym for somebody who got an undeserving shot at the heavyweight title, but looking through footage of some of his fights including the Ali fight, he had decent power and some skills. He caught Ali with sneaky right uppercuts and got in good left hooks while pinning him against the ropes. Also he was a genuine top 10-rated contender by the Ring in the late 70’s, generally hovering around the number 7 or 8 spot(He was rated number 6 when Holmes fought him according to their Top 100 series of articles). He certainly wasn’t a world-beater but he was a solid contender in his day, and probably would’ve won an alphabet title and made a defense or two if he were born 30-40 years later. He just happens to look very bad because he was competing in the greatest heavyweight era of all time.

(Also obviously not a relevant point to how good of a fighter one is, but dude is very interesting and has some stories to tell, from his tumultuous life to his friendship with guys like Roberto Duran. Also very funny to watch the press conferences between him and Ali, dude was surprisingly good at trash talk lol. If you speak Spanish there are interesting interviews of him on YouTube.)

I remember the late '70s and early '80s very well. Evangelista was just a top-20 or top-15 heavyweight at best. No better.

The only reason Evangelista penetrated the top-ten is that, by the late '70s, lots of better guys had retired or drifted away from boxing. I'm talking about Foreman, Frazier, Bugner, Bonavena, and Quarry, to name a few. The division was simply thin in talent during the 1977 to 1979 period.

Evanglista's power wasn't anything special. His skill set was only average at best.

If you check the 1977 to 1979 period ratings, you'll see lots of mediocrities in the line-up. Scott Ledoux, Lorenzo Zanon, Leroy Jones, Ossie Occasio, Leon Spinks, and Domingo D'Ellia come to mind. Kallie Knoetze's status was very "iffy."

Ali was totally shot when he fought Evangelista in 1977. Probably out of shape too. Evangelista's eighth round KO loss to Holmes is a better measure of his ability than the Ali bout.

Evangelista's only significant win was his 1983 nod over Renaldo Snipes. That fight truly counted for something, IMO. But I never learned the details of that bout. I think Snipes must have underperformed, although I admit I haven't seen the film.

You make a good point about Evangelista coming in right as a lot of the Ali fighters were winding down or retiring, and I’ll admit that if you put any of the Ali era top contenders against Evangelista(Quarry Bonavena Lyle etc.) I’d favor most of them to win by a lot. I just thought it was kind of funny that he became the poster boy for unworthy title shots when he was at least a world rated contender for a short stretch, whereas nowadays you’re allowed to defend your title against mandatory challengers who aren’t in the top 10 or maybe even top 20.

(Also funnily enough of the names you mentioned, most of them are completely forgettable like you said, but Ocasio beat Jimmy Young twice and held Michael Dokes to a draw in their first fight, before losing focus and getting decimated in one round in the rematch. He also won a Cruiserweight title in the early days of that division. and as an old man held a young Ray Mercer to a split decision, I only watched a couple of his fights but makes me wonder how good he was?)

[Joson]

Regarding Occasio, his only real achievement at heavyweight was his draw against Dokes. The two Jimmy Young fights didn't tell us much because Young was over-the-hill and out-of-shape at the time.

I'm not totally negative on Evangelista. It would have been interesting to see him fighting Tex Cobb and Bernardo Mercado, two "fairish" contenders who he might - just maybe - have beaten. Evanglista would have had a half decent chance against Ocassio and LeDoux.

To Evangelista's credit, he also defeated Lucien Rodriguez, although Rodriguez wasn't genuinely a top-ten fighter.

[franciscojavier]

Decided out of curiosity for what it would say to ask the Chat AI “How good was Alfredo Evangelista?” and the answer it gave included this bit:

> Evangelista had other notable victories in his career, including wins over notable fighters like Joe Bugner, Henry Cooper, and Joe Frazier. These victories showcased his abilities and established him as a formidable contender in the heavyweight division during his era. However, Evangelista also experienced some losses against top-level opposition, including fighters such as Larry Holmes and Ken Norton. These defeats prevented him from reaching the pinnacle of the division and capturing a world title.

I wonder where it gets its information from naming 4 fighters he didn’t even fight

[DrDuke]

Nothing to revision here, he was mediocre.

[jaouad]

He was a contender, nothing more but to say that he is a poster boy for undeserving title shots is unfair. There are better examples of boxers getting a undeserving title shot.

[cannonball]

Regarding Occasio, his only real achievement at heavyweight was his draw against Dokes. The two Jimmy Young fights didn't tell us much because Young was over-the-hill and out-of-shape at the time.

I'm not totally negative on Evangelista. It would have been interesting to see him fighting Tex Cobb and Bernardo Mercado, two "fairish" contenders who he might - just maybe - have beaten. Evanglista would have had a half decent chance against Ocassio and LeDoux.

To Evangelista's credit, he also defeated Lucien Rodriguez, although Rodriguez wasn't genuinely a top-ten fighter.

Evangalista was an ok fighter and far less deserving boxers have got title shots over the years.

I would however pick Cobb and Mercado to do a number on him tho

[bwu]

Evangelista ended up having a perfectly respectable career. But in '77, he was 14-1-1 and his last fight before meeting Ali was an eight round decision loss. It's no shock that people consider his shot as undeserved.