Classic American West Coast Boxing

[scartissue]

Dan,Don't you think that Rodolfo Gonzalez had a similar style like Napoles'?

Very! The smooth almost seamless way he would move in and shift his stance suddenly, not to mention the way he would pelt those shots on the outside and inside without ever forgetting about that left hook to the liver. It was so Napolesesque.

[dagosd2000]

Mexico's Monkey

"Chango" means "monkey" in Spanish. Chango Carmona was the World Boxing Council light weight champion.He won that title from Mando Ramos at the Memorial Coliseum in Los Angeles in 1972. The night Ramos lost his title he had a monkey on his back he couldn't shake off.

Chango Carmona was born in the Mexican capital,Mexico City.His real first name is Erubey. He was a very popular fighter in his country. They gave him that name,"Chango",because of his fighting style. He'd come in attacking, flailing his arms windmill fashion from every angle.He acted like a monkey on meth. Defense wasn't a big deal with him. He figured if his opponent didn't want to mix it up he's force him into an exchange.When he won the tittle from Mando Ramos he didn't deviate from his from his style.

When the match was made they put it in The Coliseum,the biggest venue in America.Here you had the hometown local Chicano favorite,Ramos, the slick boxing boy who was called by his trainer Jackie McCoy "the most gifted fighter I ever trained", and the darling of Aileen Eaton the promoter, in the ring with the crude and exciting, always giving the fans their money's worth ,Chango.

I figured that Mando would be too crafty for Carmona.He'd be potshotting him making a monkey out of the Mexican "chango." But Ramos didn't follow the script. You see the night before the fight Mando Ramos was sleeping it off in the drunk tank at the LA County jail.Jackie McCoy was summoned to come get his champion.

Well, Ramos' eve of fun wasn't revealed to the public until later. When he arrived at The Coliseum he still had so much booze and dope in his body it was a miracle that he didn't die in the ring.He was a toxic timebomb.

The fight was as one sided as one of Pancho Villa's cavalry charges against the Federales at Zacatecas. Ramos was beaten to a bloody pulp.Mexico had a new champion.

But now for a backhanded compliment.In the condition that Ramos was in going in, just about any light weight fighter in the world could have taken him that night.It didn't have to be a contender, ,just a warm body who could make weight.While Mando was left licking his wounds the new champ was signed to meet Rodolfo Gonzalez for a defense. Rodolfo's moniker was "Gato" meaning "cat." It would be the cat and monkey show.

Although Gonzalez was born in Guadalajara,Mexico he had built his rep fighting in Los Angeles.This time they cut down the seating capacity to fill the bill at the LA Sports Arena. I was there for that one.But this time Chango would be facing a fighter who could also box with the best of them and would be stone cold sober. It was as one sided a battle as The Federales catching Pancho Villa's army in the crossfire of machineguns at the Battle of Trinidad.

After Carmona lost the title he dropped two straight to worthy contenders ,and then returned to Mexico to engage with three hombres who had a combined record of only one win. The last guy he fought was making his pro debut.

I saw Chango Carmona fight once in the Tijuana bullring against the Brazilian ,Raimundo Dias. Dias had stopped him once on a cut in the bullring in Ciudad Juarez. It was time for revenge,and this time it was Chango who heard the "oles".

Chango Carmona won't go down in history as one of the all time greats.He was no Duran or Leonard. But if you wanted to see a fight he made sure he kept up his end of the deal.Because of his great heart the aficianados never left his side.



Chango Carmona

[dagosd2000]

The old downtown bullring in Tijuana. Many great fighters showed their stuff there-Ismael Laguna,Sugar Ramos,Vicente Saldivar,Jose Napoles,Sugar Ray Robinson,Ruben Olivares,Davey Moore,Archie Moore.

It wasn't what you'd call a classic bullring in structure. The metal bleacher seats were kind of rinky dink not to mention unsafe.Because of safety concerns they leveled the bullring somewhere in the 90's.

They had already built another bullring out at the beach in Playas De Tijuana. Hasn't been a big fight there in all those years.Today,it's noted for all the migrants that come up from the south wanting to get into the U.S. and settle along the fence that's on the other side of the bullring.



View of the border fence from the the U.S. side.You can see the image of the new bullring in the picture left corner.

[dagosd2000]

Cat Feet.

Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez told me that he felt very confident going into his fight with Chango Carmona. From the start "Gato" established his dominance.I had to hand it to Chango for lasting as long as he did.

During that heyday stretch of Southland boxing during the 60's and 70's ,as I''ve told you before,Jose Napoles was my favorite fighter to watch.But my second favorite was Rodolfo Gonzalez.Both boys had similar styles.They were smooth in action,beautiful balance,worked downstairs,combianation punching,head and shoulder movement pretty,and the left hook deadly upstairs and below.When Gato ran away dumping Carmona that night at The LA Sports Arena I thought he'd last a very long time a winner.But then there was the defense against Ishimatsu.

Gato said that the Japanese side of the bargaining table put 50 thou down on the table in front of him.Gato's side thinking they could handle Ish without much difficulty they then could look down the road for a unification with Duran. i was thinking along those lines too.

After stopping Ruben Navarro and Antoino Puddu in defenses Gato flew to Japan to take on the guy they called "Guts.".The fight wasn't shown live in the U.S. but when I read the papers the next day I was shocked.:a KO defeat to a guy who was also put in the loss column by Hands Of Stone,Ismael Laguna,and LIonel Rose I thought would also wind up on the short end to the WBC champ.

When I saw the replay I was left scratching my head. Gato looked the same but all his skills were having little effect on the relentless Guts. When it ended ithe fight looked even but suddenly Gato ran out of gas.He was no longer in line to unify the lightweight titles with Roberto.

I asked Gato about that night. He told me he had trouble getting down to weight.He was on a vegan diet.He felt weak,and then his manager and trainer Jackie McCoy,didn't get to Japan until just before the fight. There was an clause for a repeat. The follow up followed the script of the first one except it lasted a little longer. Again the fight was held in Nipponlandia.Gato decided he'd had enough with boxing.

"I was 32 years old ,"he lamented."I was tired. I made a little money.I bought my mother a house in Tijuana. It was over."

You could say Gato did the right thing.If he had gotten by Ishimatsu I don't think he would have had enough in his tank to beat Duran.Gato was showing signs of wear while Duran was wearing out his opposition.Duran was young,had the eye of the tiger,was in his prime.Gato was a 180 of all that.

I would meet Gato and his soulmate Barbara for lunch from time to time.They lived up in Oceanside and we'd chat about this and that:Mexico,and fighting mostly. He didn't keep in touch with other fighters much,once in awhile a phone call to Jose Napoles he said which I doubted. A trip to Mexico comped by Jose Sulaimin to get together with former Mexican pugs.He was gettng the dementia blues I could tell the last time I had contact.He couldn't drive anymore. He was losing touch with things.

Gato's uncle was Joe Becerra the bantam weight champ, and his cousin was Alacran Torres the top flyweight for a stretch. The pedigree was there but Gato's folks wanted him to become a bullfighter. But Gato told me he was afraid of the critters.He wasn't afraid of fighters.It's just in the end he ran out of gas.


Gato enjoying my wife's cooking,carne asada and camaron empanizado, at our place. Gato told me to tell my wife to hold the onions.They wee held.

[dagosd2000]

A Shadow Of A Fight

After Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez lost his WBC title to Guts Ishimatsu he wanted a tune up fight before the rematch.It was smart thinking.Gato's get well party would take place in a little obscure arena on Agua Caliente Boulevard that was located just north before you arrived at the racetrack. The name of the place was Arena 72.I took a drive down to watch the fight.I think I was the only gringo in the house.

I'd seen a few fights cards there.They were nothing special.The arena held maybe a thousand and that was stretching it.I think the Arena 72 was once a movie theater because the ring was against a wall with no seats in back of it nor around the sides.

Gato fought a Mexican journeyman ,Clemente Mucino. He had blown in from Mexico City,and being a Chilango, he had nobody in the house pulling for him to upset the former champ.

As soon as the bell rang for round number one I could tell this guy was in over his head. He was slow and seemed he had his mind on something else. He looked the part of the set up. I think Gato wanted to get some work in before he finished him off. But Mucino was so inept that as soon as Gato began peppering his face with punches, that looked like the intent was more for timing than demonstrating power, Mucino's pan started to split apart. He came out for the second frame needing a transfusion. He couldn't see.He couldn't defend himself. His corner threw in the towel after Gato jumped a few more shots into his mug. It wasn't what Gato wanted.The fans felt shortchanged. I left early.The crowd chaser was the main event.

After all was said and done I figured I had enough money left in my wallet that I could go to the Coahuila to spend it on booze and broads and blow the rest.


The Arena 72. Don't know what it is now.Probably better off when it was a movie house.

[scartissue]

A Shadow Of A Fight

After Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez lost his WBC title to Guts Ishimatsu he wanted a tune up fight before the rematch.It was smart thinking.Gato's get well party would take place in a little obscure arena on Agua Caliente Boulevard that was located just north before you arrived at the racetrack. The name of the place was Arena 72.I took a drive down to watch the fight.I think I was the only gringo in the house.

I'd seen a few fights cards there.They were nothing special.The arena held maybe a thousand and that was stretching it.I think the Arena 72 was once a movie theater because the ring was against a wall with no seats in back of it nor around the sides.

Gato fought a Mexican journeyman ,Clemente Mucino. He had blown in from Mexico City,and being a Chilango, he had nobody in the house pulling for him to upset the former champ.

As soon as the bell rang for round number one I could tell this guy was in over his head. He was slow and seemed he had his mind on something else. He looked the part of the set up. I think Gato wanted to get some work in before he finished him off. But Mucino was so inept that as soon as Gato began peppering his face with punches, that looked like the intent was more for timing than demonstrating power, Mucino's pan started to split apart. He came out for the second frame needing a transfusion. He couldn't see.He couldn't defend himself. His corner threw in the towel after Gato jumped a few more shots into his mug. It wasn't what Gato wanted.The fans felt shortchanged. I left early.The crowd chaser was the main event.

After all was said and done I figured I had enough money left in my wallet that I could go to the Coahuila to spend it on booze and broads and blow the rest.


The Arena 72. Don't know what it is now.Probably better off when it was a movie house.

Rog, never knew you were there for that one. And it answers a lot with you being an eyewitness. I recall when this took place and even recall Ring Magazine announcing it in their Mexican result section as a TKO in 2, just as you said. But somewhere down the line boxrec started displaying it as a 'Technical decision'. I don't know where this came from. Maybe some writer didn't understand it when they said, "Technically, he can't continue."

[dagosd2000]

A Shadow Of A Fight

After Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez lost his WBC title to Guts Ishimatsu he wanted a tune up fight before the rematch.It was smart thinking.Gato's get well party would take place in a little obscure arena on Agua Caliente Boulevard that was located just north before you arrived at the racetrack. The name of the place was Arena 72.I took a drive down to watch the fight.I think I was the only gringo in the house.

I'd seen a few fights cards there.They were nothing special.The arena held maybe a thousand and that was stretching it.I think the Arena 72 was once a movie theater because the ring was against a wall with no seats in back of it nor around the sides.

Gato fought a Mexican journeyman ,Clemente Mucino. He had blown in from Mexico City,and being a Chilango, he had nobody in the house pulling for him to upset the former champ.

As soon as the bell rang for round number one I could tell this guy was in over his head. He was slow and seemed he had his mind on something else. He looked the part of the set up. I think Gato wanted to get some work in before he finished him off. But Mucino was so inept that as soon as Gato began peppering his face with punches, that looked like the intent was more for timing than demonstrating power, Mucino's pan started to split apart. He came out for the second frame needing a transfusion. He couldn't see.He couldn't defend himself. His corner threw in the towel after Gato jumped a few more shots into his mug. It wasn't what Gato wanted.The fans felt shortchanged. I left early.The crowd chaser was the main event.

After all was said and done I figured I had enough money left in my wallet that I could go to the Coahuila to spend it on booze and broads and blow the rest.


The Arena 72. Don't know what it is now.Probably better off when it was a movie house.

Rog, never knew you were there for that one. And it answers a lot with you being an eyewitness. I recall when this took place and even recall Ring Magazine announcing it in their Mexican result section as a TKO in 2, just as you said. But somewhere down the line boxrec started displaying it as a 'Technical decision'. I don't know where this came from. Maybe some writer didn't understand it when they said, "Technically, he can't continue."

Dan,this this how it worked in Mexico.It may still be the case. If a fighter is so cut up that he can't continue and if he's behind on the cards after 2 rounds it goes down as a loss on a TD. I saw a similar result when Hedgemon Lewis cut the Mexican welterweight champ,Raul Rodriguez, to ribbons at the Jai Alai Palace in Tijuana.There was no way he could have survived the 3rd round.so the fight was halted.It went down as a TD loss against Rodriguez. ( Check out the result in the BoxRec records).But the TD has to be the result of a cut.It doesn't make sense,but there are a lot of things in Mexico that don't make sense.

[dagosd2000]

A Technical Disgrace

Hey Dan,are you still with me? Now you got me thinking with this technical decision business in Mexico.When I saw those two fights -Gato and Mucino and Lewis and Rodriguez- it automatically registered with me as TKO's. Then I got to thinking about the time Jose Napoles was awarded that TD win against Armando Muniz in Acapulco.That fight went 12 frames . The judges had it even at that point.That was a joke.Armando was handing it to Jose left and right, and it didn't look like Jose would last another round.He was fouling Armando knowing that the referee, Ramon Berumen (who was Jose Sulaiman's nephew) wouldn't do anything.I think then that Sulaiman, who was at ringside, made everything up. He gave his nephew the wink and the fight was stopped.I thought that it was going to go in Armando's favor. Napoles was bleeding all over the ring mat But it was determined that he had been fouled earlier, and then looking at the score cards and seeing it even, Jose got his hand raised.

Jose Sulaiman was so moved by Armando's effort that Sulaiman gave Armando his watch.I wonder how many pieces he smashed it into?

[dagosd2000]

School Days

One of my first jobs teaching was with the San Diego Court Schools. I worked a spell at Juvenile Hall and sometimes I'd get assigned at one of the local storefront schools that were scattered around town. They were for the kids that were on probation with the stipulation that they lived with their parents and had to attend school.The kids would take the bus or some would walk if they lived near enough their assigned school.

One of my assignments was at a school that was in a building that housed a boxing gym upstairs.It was run by the City of San Diego. The building was located on Logan Avenue in the Barrio Logan area just south of the city proper.The structure was a common stucco job with the classroom on the second floor and the boxing gym on the lower floor. As you entered from the street you had to walk through the gym and up a flight of stairs to get to the classroom. The classroom was open and you could look down at the gym.

The kids were high school age and because they lived at home and were on probation they weren't very hard core. School would start at 9 in the morning ,and depending if they got off probation and went back to normal school or violated their probation and were returned to Juvenile Hall, I'd have around a dozen kids on my roll trickling in.

I didn't push it too hard with them. There wasn't a set curriculum. I more or less winged it everyday.There wee no books.There were no grades handed out. No advancements to the next grade. There were no diplomas and no one graduated from anything.

Discipline wasn't a big problem. If a kid screwed up he knew I could get a hold of the probation department and he'd get picked up and sent to Juvenile Hall. He didn't want that to happen so it was pretty much tame.The only ruckus was when the fighters would start filtering into the boxing gym around noontime.Then the kids would leave their seats and go to the railing and look down at the fighters working out in the gym.

I didn't make a stink about it. To tell the truth I liked watching the fighters too.There were punching bags and a ring.The guy in charge of the gym was the guy I've been talking about the last few days,Rodolfo Gonzalez.I didn't know him yet on a personal level. This was a around ten years after he had retired from fighting.

I wouldn't say that there any hot prospects working out in that gym. Maybe you'd see a dozen or two bodies on a regular basis. There was a small fee to workout there. I don't think there were any pro fighters or matchmakers and managers that came around. For a classroom of kids and a gym full of fighters the place was kind of quiet.

I worked that assignment for about three weeks ,and then I went back to working again at Juvenile Hall.Later,when I got to know Rodolfo we'd talk about that combo- school upstairs and the boxing gym below.Rodolfo didn't really have much to say about that gym,and I didn't have much to offer about my classroom experience. You could say that no contenders emerged from that gym nor did I have any future valedictorians.

When me and Rodolfo would get together down the road we'd talk about something else.


The building on Logan Avenue that used to be school and a boxing gym. Now it's an evangelical church.Somehow it makes sense.

[dagosd2000]

He Wasn't In Joe's Bar

Got to thinkin' again about the Arena 72 in Tijuana. I'd been there a few times to watch the fights but the only two things I remember is that fight Rodolfo Gonzalez had with that club fighter from Mexico City,Mucino ,and a fight in the main event pitting a Mexican fighter with a black guy from Chicago. I couldn't remember the black guy's name so I looked that fight up in the BoxRec archives.The thing I did remember though was the robe the black guy was wearing.It read on the back,"Joe's Bar."

Well, you could see this comin'. The black guy,whose name I found out was Ronnie Furlow,came out for the first round and before you could say "Give me a shot of red eye" the ref was standing over Ronnie Furlow giving him a ten count. Can never forget that.

I said that when I went to the Arena 72 I didn't se anything special except for Gato Gonzalez.But looking through the cards on the BoxRec records I see that Jibaro Perez and Dinamita Estrada got their starts there.Missed those guys.

I wonder what kind of robe they were wearing.




Dinamita Estrada

[Joson]

You must have seen Pedro Lovell in action back in the 1970s. He was established in Southern California.

What are your thoughts about Pedro? How do you rate him, ability wise? Think he could have been top-ten material if he had had the right breaks?

[dagosd2000]

You must have seen Pedro Lovell in action back in the 1970s. He was established in Southern California.

What are your thoughts about Pedro? How do you rate him, ability wise? Think he could have been top-ten material if he had had the right breaks?

I saw him fight Ken Norton on TV. Lovell was real rough around the edges, HIs balance was bad and he couldn't keep the proper distance to get the most on his punches.He was slow afoot.His jab was nothing to write home about.He took a lot of shots that if had worked on slipping pinches could have avoided. He had a good punch but that was about it. He fought a lot of stiffs.

When he started to make those Rocky movies and trying to fit that in with fighting I knew he wouldn't last. It wasn't a case that he didn't get the right breaks. A fighter makes his own breaks.He never won a championship and he never won an Oscar.No surprise there.

[dagosd2000]

A Part Of The Culture

This brouhaha the other day about the Mexican fans during a match chanting "puto" at the American's goalkeeper and the U.S. press wanting the Mexican soccer organizations and even FIFA to impose penalties-lots of luck with that one.
"Puto" more or lress means a man that has sex with another man for money;a homosexual male prostitute.

But you hear that chant at Mexican sporting events all the time. The aficianados' intent is not vicious as it's meant to give just the plain 'ol razz. It's a part of the culture. It's supposed to be funny.

My granddaughter's husband is a small time wrestling promoter in Tijuana.Go to one of his cards and you'll see grandmas and little kids happily chanting "puto" or little ditties ,like (using the English translations) "Your mother is a whore" or "You take it in the ass." all in harmony and with happy smiling faces at the guy they don't want to win. And now an outsider wants Mexico to do something about it? There's a laugh.

Boxing matches are not exempt from this kind of anti cheerleading. Remember now it's all in good spirit.(We're only having fun)I could just see the cops in the U.s. storming into the grandstands trying to roundup grandma of some nino because he has a dirty mouth. But then you don't see grandma or a nino at many boxing matches.That conduct is left for the adults.

Now if you really want to start a rhubarb then try to stop it. Explain that carrying on like that is stupid. Now there's a word that will light a fire under a Mexican's ass-calling him "stupid." Mexicans are sensitive about living in a 3rd World land and not having as much as, let's say the gringo, so call a Mexican "stupid" and you've put your life on the line.Even if a Mexican cop heard an outsider call a Mexican "stupid" ,even if he thought it just,the cop would probably work the paleface over with his baton.

I remember going to Tijuana as a rambunctious teen kicking up my heels up and down Revolution Street raising mayhem in all the cantinas.Maybe there'd be something that rubbed me the wrong way and I'd get into a fight.The cops would arrive,take me outside,and after I cooled off pay the mordida(thr bribe) and then they'd let me go back inside to continue my night of song and dance.

But there was one act,short of murder,that you couldn't talk your way out of-getting caught peeing in the street.Nope,you'd be going to the Tijuana jail for exhibiting that form of reiief.You'd spend a few hours in the stir before your bribe would be pocketed. For a gringo to pee on a Mexican street was a symbolic insult to the republic.You might as well have set fire to the Tri.

So when I go to a soccer game,the wresting maches,or take in the fights in Mexico and hear the aficianados call the other guy a "puto", I understand where it's coming from and ignore it. It's just part of the culture.And if I have to take a leak I know to use the restroom.



Inside the old Tijuana jail on 8th Street commonly referred to as"Calle Ocho." I spent a few hours in there once because I couldn't find a bathroom.

[dagosd2000]

Picture On The Wall

The San Diego Coliseum had a giant picture on the wall in back of the snack bar that you could see from any seat in the house.Now don't start guessing that it was a picture of one of the mainstay fighters that was popular in the old building.No. It wasn't Archie Moore or Kenny Norton.It wasn't even a fighter.It was a giant picture of a wrestler.The "giant" part is a tipoff. Now you guessed it.Andre The Giant was the guy who took up all that wall space.

Wrestling was as big a draw as boxing at The Coliseum. When Archie Moore was the fans' favorite during the 30's and 40's it was grapplers like Jim Londos and Strangler Lewis who packed the crowds to the doors. When I began frequenting the old edifice it was the likes of Freddie Blassie and The Destroyer who had the fans lined up at the ticket windows.There were only two ticket windows. When there was a big card the line would stretch all the way down the block.

Ander The Giant only wrestled at the The Coliseum one time. He was the biggest draw in the sport-attendance wise and in physicality.I didn't go down that night to see him.I can't remember why but I know that I was absent.

I'd say it was 50/50 on my part when it came to taking in the fights and the wrestling matches. I liked them both. You might say the wrestling was a better show most of the time. Well, that's because it was all staged to look like those guys were really killing each other.I can tell you about a lot of bum boxing cards I sat through.

The wrestlers were certainly more colorful than the fighters.Those wrestlers were really in a kind of show business.They had to sell themselves to the audience. There were probably more wrestlers in movies and television than fighters. Let's face it, acting was what they did in the ring.to make a living.


Andre The Giant

[Joson]

Picture On The Wall

The San Diego Coliseum had a giant picture on the wall in back of the snack bar that you could see from any seat in the house.Now don't start guessing that it was a picture of one of the mainstay fighters that was popular in the old building.No. It wasn't Archie Moore or Kenny Norton.It wasn't even a fighter.It was a giant picture of a wrestler.The "giant" part is a tipoff. Now you guessed it.Andre The Giant was the guy who took up all that wall space.

Wrestling was as big a draw as boxing at The Coliseum. When Archie Moore was the fans' favorite during the 30's and 40's it was grapplers like Jim Londos and Strangler Lewis who packed the crowds to the doors. When I began frequenting the old edifice it was the likes of Freddie Blassie and The Destroyer who had the fans lined up at the ticket windows.There were only two ticket windows. When there was a big card the line would stretch all the way down the block.

Ander The Giant only wrestled at the The Coliseum one time. He was the biggest draw in the sport-attendance wise and in physicality.I didn't go down that night to see him.I can't remember why but I know that I was absent.

I'd say it was 50/50 on my part when it came to taking in the fights and the wrestling matches. I liked them both. You might say the wrestling was a better show most of the time. Well, that's because it was all staged to look like those guys were really killing each other.I can tell you about a lot of bum boxing cards I sat through.

The wrestlers were certainly more colorful than the fighters.Those wrestlers were really in a kind of show business.They had to sell themselves to the audience. There were probably more wrestlers in movies and television than fighters. Let's face it, acting was what they did in the ring.to make a living.


Andre The Giant

What was your POV about Norton during his early years in Southern California? I'm talking long before he beat Ali. Did you think he was future champion or star? Did the rest of the SoCal boxing industry think Ken was going to go far in boxing?

[dagosd2000]

[quote=Joson post_id=5915437 time=1688321289 user_id=11733


What was your POV about Norton during his early years in Southern California? I'm talking long before he beat Ali. Did you think he was future champion or star? Did the rest of the SoCal boxing industry think Ken was going to go far in boxing?
[/quote]

I never thought Ken Norton would go very far after watching him start out.He was brought along very slowly by Eddie Futch because I think he knew that Norton had some problems. His big problem was that he'd hit the wall midway through a fight, even fighting against inferior opposition.Sometimes I'd think he wasn't going to finish. When he took his fragile undefeated record with him to up to LA to fight Jose Luis Garcia I knew his number would be up. Garcia clocked him at the bell ending the 5th round. By that time Norton had run out of gas.They could have used a calendar to count him out.

I thought he was through after that fight. But he went to see a local shrink,Dean Ezell, who had a hypnotist act in town at the Chuck Wagon Buffet.(A green Regis Philbin would introduce him)After getting put under by Ezell and finding what was wrong(I don't know what the problem was )Norton started a comeback.Surprisingly he was stronger. He stopped Garcia in a rematch ,and then he beat Henry Clark that got him into the ring with Ali.

AS far as popularity goes Norton didn't have a huge fanbase in San Diego nor the rest of the Southland. He was kind of standoffish and uptight. When he fought Jack O'Halloran here The Coliseum the fans were rooting for Happy Jack.

[dagosd2000]

Hey Ma,Tony Canzoneri Beat Me Up.Don't Worry I Feel Great

Fighters today don't have those tough names like the fighters of the past.Oh Tyson Fury is a "tough" name.But he's in the minority.

Today and in recent times you have the likes of Winky Wright,Dmitri Bivol,Genaddly Golovkin,Regis Prograis,Pinklon Thomas,Floyd Mayweather.You wouldn't want get a black eye in the schoolyard from fellas' with names like that.To add insult to injury Mayweather called himself"Pretty Boy." Imagine the ring announcer saying,"In this corner, Jake "Pretty Boy" LaMotta?

Now if you come home with a shiner and tell your old man that Jack Dempsey or Tony Canzoneri put a hit on you he would say that black and blue was a badge of honor.

What we need today is fighters with tougher names.Today they have to give these guys tough nicknames to cover for their wimpy birth monikers. Rocky Marciano.Now how are you gonna' make that name tougher? But Manny Pacquiao? There's room for improvement there. So they called him "PacMan."Still Wimpy.

"Hands Of Stone" was a proper fit for Duran.But Jeff "Candy Slim" Merritt?.He had better learn to fight with a nickname like that.

Yeah,the names today don't stack up with the names of the past.That reminds me.I've got to collect a bet from this guy by the name of Bruce Lilly. Shouldn't be a problem.


Tony Canzoneri.He even looked like his name.

[Joson]

AS far as popularity goes Norton didn't have a huge fanbase in San Diego nor the rest of the Southland. He was kind of standoffish and uptight. When he fought Jack O'Halloran here The Coliseum the fans were rooting for Happy Jack.

Regarding Norton vs Happy Jack, I assume you were present in The Coliseum that night. Was the decision legitimate, in your opinion? How'd Norton look...did he struggle?

[dagosd2000]

AS far as popularity goes Norton didn't have a huge fanbase in San Diego nor the rest of the Southland. He was kind of standoffish and uptight. When he fought Jack O'Halloran here The Coliseum the fans were rooting for Happy Jack.

Regarding Norton vs Happy Jack, I assume you were present in The Coliseum that night. Was the decision legitimate, in your opinion? How'd Norton look...did he struggle?

The fight was slow,pretty even until Norton caught him with a hook and dropped him to the canvas. I think it was around the 6th round. O'Halloran wasn't badly hurt. Norton didn't follow up.Both men were tired at the end,O'Halloran more. For a big man he didn't have a big punch.The decision was fair.

[dagosd2000]

The Flag Waver( A Moment To Love Oneself)

Go to a fight in Mexico and they'll play their national anthem before things get going, usually before the main event,and everyone is on their feet.There's no one on one knee,no clenched fist in the air.I'm not saying that it's a show of patriotism necessarily because there's plenty of things Mexicans are dissatisfied about, but acting out during the national anthem is something you won't see.

If a foreigner is one of the combatants they'll play his national anthem first and everyone gets up and remains silent. So why the respect? Well, maybe that mood stops with the national anthem. After that's over the admiration goes out the door. But when it comes to the HImno Nacional De Mexico there's no monkeying around.

There'll never be another revolution in Mexico like the one they had in 1910 with Pancho Villa and its usual cast of characters.The spin doctor narcos, who are fighting between themselves for control, won't put up with any outside acts of violence in the cause of patriotism or what's right for the people. Besides,the United States is satisfied the way things are.

The U.S. went ape when Castro turned Commie and we tried to change it back to what it was before the bearded one took over with that calamity The Bay Of Pigs. The United States wants neighbors that are co operative with the banks and big business here so they can exploit what's left of the poor and keep a 3rd world country inside that number.

Remember that 1968 Olympics in Mexico City when those American black athletes stood on the podium to get their medals and the had their heads down and their clenched fists up in the air? Well, it was the Mexican government that sent them back on the plane pronto.

If a Mexican demonstrated like that in Mexico he'd get locked up. Maybe something even worse would happen. So maybe when I go to the fights and everyone is on their feet during the national anthem they figure it's not worth the trouble to show any sign of defiance. It's not so much protesting, they just don't want to be thrown in jail and have their skulls broken. That would be stupid.



National anthem of Mexico before the Chavez /Camacho fight. Viva Mexico!!!

[Joson]

I've got another Tijuana question.

Everyone hears about these Americans who go there for discount plastic surgery, cosmetic dentistry, and other kinds of medical treatment. Same with prescription drugs: Americans get them filled at sub-bargain prices in Tijuana.

The picture I'm getting from you is Tijuana's not such a safe place for Americans. What about these "medical tourists?" Has their Tijuana presence thinned out? Do you think those "medical tourists" are taking dangerous risks by being there"

[dagosd2000]

I've got another Tijuana question.

Everyone hears about these Americans who go there for discount plastic surgery, cosmetic dentistry, and other kinds of medical treatment. Same with prescription drugs: Americans get them filled at sub-bargain prices in Tijuana.

The picture I'm getting from you is Tijuana's not such a safe place for Americans. What about these "medical tourists?" Has their Tijuana presence thinned out? Do you think those "medical tourists" are taking dangerous risks by being there"

If I gave you the impression that Tijuana(and Mexico) is not a safe place for Americans I'll try to be more specific. It depends what you go down there for.If you're looking to get involved with narcos you better watch your ass,but that holds true for a Mexican too.Being kidnapped is what I think an American should be aware of. They think all gringos have money,thus the chance of getting grabbed off the street is more risky than being involved with the narcos. Don't stand out by yourself especially at night. Be with a group in a crowded area and don't be flashing your money.


As for the risks taken for the person who goes down there for medical purposes,expecially plastic surgery,it depends on how critical the procedure is. My daughter went to TJ for a boob and nose job and she was fine. I'd rather go to a GP in Tijuana than one here even though I have an HMO. However,I got a double hip replacement with my HMO here instead of in Tijuana.Even if I had had the insurance down there,something like hip replacement, I'd stay away from in Mexico.

I've been buying medicine that I'd need a prescription for here in TJ where I don't need one. 70% of the pharmaceutical drugs here in the U.S. are made in China and India.A lot of big PHARMA like Bayer and Merck make the same drugs in Mexico.

My dentist is in TJ.She's great.My optometrist too. The medical business is booming down there because of the cost factor.You get all these insecure Americans getting bummed about their sagging bellies and their tiny tits, and then factor in the cost. The Medical field in TJ is making money hand over fist.Also I might mention that cancer patients here that have stage 4 and are not given any hope,many go to these holistic centers in TJ to see if that they can get cured.That's something that the medical profession here doesn't want anyone to know.

[dagosd2000]

Among My Souvenirs

What's left of the boxing fan today isn't much. His frame of reference doesn't go back very far.Look at the thread on the forum:"What's The First Live Fight You Ever Saw?",and that shovel spade goes digging into a shallow grave. I think someone posted "Ali/Liston."

I don't go back to the halcyon days of say Jack Dempsey but I grew up reading stories of those fellas back then. A lot of them were still breathing too.They were household names . You could mention Ray Robinson and Mickey Mantle in the same breath and you wouldn't get a blank look.The sport fan back then would qualify as a historian today.

I think too that a lot of today's fans don't like hearing from someone older about "You should have seen so and so..." It's like they're at a disadvantage. It's like their old man making the point that because he's been walking on the planet longer he knows more than you ever will."Now when I was a kid..."

I do that all the time when I'm around my kids and grandkids. But I bring that up because sometimes what they are saying they need to understand the contrasts and get filed in on a little history. But when they get tired of hearing about the good old days they shut me off. "What's going on today is what's happening man."They don't sat that to me but I can take a hint.

I was a history teacher in school. Try that on for size with the young folk."Johnny,what is you most boring subject?"Answer:"History." But then maybe you'd tell me that I didn't make it "Come alive."How do you do that? If someone younger,who's been ,bred to believe that there's more wisdom in their acne years than the guy with the hardening of the arteries,it's like pissing against the wind.

But I try to be careful with the younger set. They're so full of piss and vinegar that I just tell myself that sooner or later they'll get it. It's a part of growing up. Learn through your mistakes.That sort of thing.

When I was kid(gee I just said that ) all the pubertyites thought rock 'n roll was where it was at when it came to music.Glenn Miller was for squares. And Sonny Liston could have beaten Joe Louis. But we knew who Glenn Miler was because dad played him on the record player. All the stories about The Brown Bomber were still ringing in our ears.It was tough to say Mickey Mantle had it over Babe Ruth.

I'll end this with what I saw yesterday scanning this thread about "Are the fighters today stronger and fitter or weaker?"One guy said that "Archie Moore would be road kill against today's heavyweights." I don't think this guy could teach history.



Muhammad Ali.Today's subject in ancient history.

[dagosd2000]

A Hell Of A Oxymoron

"Fighters who didn't like getting hit.' Now don't that take all? I think I'll save that one for Make Believe Ballroom Time.I'll tell you what. Next time I walk into a boxing gym I'll ask the fighters if there are any of them that don't like getting hit. Then I'll follow that gem up with asking if any of them LIKE getting hit.I hope I can jot their responses down before they start hitting ME and throw me out into the street. I'll let you in on it right now-I don't particularly care for getting clobbered and thrown out into the street.

Maybe there are some fellas who are masochists and get gratification from taking a beating(the shrinks say there's some kind of sexual gratification connected with it) but I'll stick to visiting the neighborhood dominatrix to get my rocks off.

I've never known of a fighter that liked getting whacked ,or didn't like it. Getting "hit" comes with the territory of being a fighter.Now you might say a fighter gets KO'd a lot because he doesn't like getting hit, but that's because he's got a weak beard.

Floyd Patterson had the knock of not taking a punch.But it wasn't because he didn't like it. Rocky Marciano stood in there and took the other guy's best shots but he wasn't asking for more.He didn't like getting tagged anymore than Patterson.

Ronnie Wilson,the local kid who was popular with the fans here at The Coliseum, was stopped 11 times in his career. That's a lot. Now when I knew Ronnie if I would have said to him that he got stopped because he didn't like to get hit he would have hauled off and punched me in the nose and asked me how I liked that or not.My answer:
"Only when Madam Dementia ties me up and whips me."

[Joson]

I've got another Tijuana question.

Everyone hears about these Americans who go there for discount plastic surgery, cosmetic dentistry, and other kinds of medical treatment. Same with prescription drugs: Americans get them filled at sub-bargain prices in Tijuana.

The picture I'm getting from you is Tijuana's not such a safe place for Americans. What about these "medical tourists?" Has their Tijuana presence thinned out? Do you think those "medical tourists" are taking dangerous risks by being there"

If I gave you the impression that Tijuana(and Mexico) is not a safe place for Americans I'll try to be more specific. It depends what you go down there for.If you're looking to get involved with narcos you better watch your ass,but that holds true for a Mexican too.Being kidnapped is what I think an American should be aware of. They think all gringos have money,thus the chance of getting grabbed off the street is more risky than being involved with the narcos. Don't stand out by yourself especially at night. Be with a group in a crowded area and don't be flashing your money.


As for the risks taken for the person who goes down there for medical purposes,expecially plastic surgery,it depends on how critical the procedure is. My daughter went to TJ for a boob and nose job and she was fine. I'd rather go to a GP in Tijuana than one here even though I have an HMO. However,I got a double hip replacement with my HMO here instead of in Tijuana.Even if I had had the insurance down there,something like hip replacement, I'd stay away from in Mexico.

I've been buying medicine that I'd need a prescription for here in TJ where I don't need one. 70% of the pharmaceutical drugs here in the U.S. are made in China and India.A lot of big PHARMA like Bayer and Merck make the same drugs in Mexico.

My dentist is in TJ.She's great.My optometrist too. The medical business is booming down there because of the cost factor.You get all these insecure Americans getting bummed about their sagging bellies and their tiny tits, and then factor in the cost. The Medical field in TJ is making money hand over fist.Also I might mention that cancer patients here that have stage 4 and are not given any hope,many go to these holistic centers in TJ to see if that they can get cured.That's something that the medical profession here doesn't want anyone to know.

Very interesting. I didn't know about those holistic centers attracting significant numbers of cancer patients.

Many years ago I considered trips to Tijuana for dental and ortho procedures. Decided against it because I realized I'd be powerless if I needed civil court involvement for anything that goes wrong. But this aside, I wasn't worried about the competency of the dentists/orthos.