Doesn't mean he is better than he was when he beat Jones. Woods has come a long way since then, I'm tagging him for the decision win.viciousmaussa wrote:If Johnson can beat Woods again - a far better Woods - then he isn't on the slide. Glen is a bigger name now. Remember that when Glen won the IBF title he was not highly rgarded; when Calzaghe wanted to fight him it was summer of 2004 - Jones & Tarver overshadowed Johnson until Glen beat 'em both. Johnson IMO is more proven and more acknowledged now.
Who would people rather Calzaghe fight
I'm going for Woods as well. I think this fight will surprise a lot of ppl in terms of quality actionMattyp151 wrote:Doesn't mean he is better than he was when he beat Jones. Woods has come a long way since then, I'm tagging him for the decision win.viciousmaussa wrote:If Johnson can beat Woods again - a far better Woods - then he isn't on the slide. Glen is a bigger name now. Remember that when Glen won the IBF title he was not highly rgarded; when Calzaghe wanted to fight him it was summer of 2004 - Jones & Tarver overshadowed Johnson until Glen beat 'em both. Johnson IMO is more proven and more acknowledged now.
JC says he can go up to 175 and then fight the Kessler-Beyer winner if necessarypundit wrote:Both easily beat Dawson. And both would have good chances agaist any of the other folks.Mattyp151 wrote:What are you talking about, a conspiracy? Get out of town. Woods would do something for Joe on a domestic level, but for a guy who had the American audience in his lap after the Lacy fight, he totally dropped the ball.
Woods and Johnson are very, very good fighters, but neither one beats Erdei, Adamek, Briggs, or Dawson at this point in their career.
Besides, I consider Woods a very good opponent. But if Calzaghe fights Woods/Johnson before fighitng Kessler, it will always look as if he had run from the true challenge at 168 (which of course would be true as well).
I don't think that's smart. Because if he goes to 175, loses, then the fight at 168 loses some luster. Why not take the biggest fight he has available, Kessler/Beyer winner, and fight for something he's supposedly waited for for 8 years.viciousmaussa wrote:JC says he can go up to 175 and then fight the Kessler-Beyer winner if necessarypundit wrote:Both easily beat Dawson. And both would have good chances agaist any of the other folks.Mattyp151 wrote:What are you talking about, a conspiracy? Get out of town. Woods would do something for Joe on a domestic level, but for a guy who had the American audience in his lap after the Lacy fight, he totally dropped the ball.
Woods and Johnson are very, very good fighters, but neither one beats Erdei, Adamek, Briggs, or Dawson at this point in their career.
Besides, I consider Woods a very good opponent. But if Calzaghe fights Woods/Johnson before fighitng Kessler, it will always look as if he had run from the true challenge at 168 (which of course would be true as well).
I know that is how most ppl perceive it - but you can look at it differently.fist wrote:...Joe does not need Kessler, but Kessler certainly needs Joe.
Kessler (assuming he beats Beyer) holds the key to complete SMW unification - which in retrospect might be the most obvious way for Calzaghe to secure a legacy. Calzaghe has very few fights ahead of him to secure that legacy.
Time will tell how Calzaghe will be judged if he doesn't try to make a Kessler fight happen. If Kessler turns out to be hot air, it wont matter feck all. But if Kessler goes on to have a great career when Calzaghe is out of the game, some ppl might view it as a blemish on Calzaghes career.
Kessler on the other hand is in a good position to unify, when Calzaghe is out of the game. He presumeably has time ahead of him.
Sure ppl will always question whether Kessler could have beaten Calzaghe. But as i said, depending on what the future holds for Kessler, it could leave even more of a mark on Calzaghe's reputation.
I know this is just speculation - and most ppl wont agree with it. Just tryin to say there are different ways of looking at it.
I agree. Calzaghe has very few fights left and a win over Kessler and the undisputed 168 title will leave a far better legacy than moving up a weight and beating an ancient Glen Johnson. Kessler has years ahead of him to build his legacy, if Calzaghe moves up Kessler can still unify the belts with the next WBO and IBF champions. Calzaghe is the one nearing the end of his career here.dumdane wrote:I know that is how most ppl perceive it - but you can look at it differently.fist wrote:...Joe does not need Kessler, but Kessler certainly needs Joe.
Kessler (assuming he beats Beyer) holds the key to complete SMW unification - which in retrospect might be the most obvious way for Calzaghe to secure a legacy. Calzaghe has very few fights ahead of him to secure that legacy.
Time will tell how Calzaghe will be judged if he doesn't try to make a Kessler fight happen. If Kessler turns out to be hot air, it wont matter feck all. But if Kessler goes on to have a great career when Calzaghe is out of the game, some ppl might view it as a blemish on Calzaghes career.
Kessler on the other hand is in a good position to unify, when Calzaghe is out of the game. He presumeably has time ahead of him.
Sure ppl will always question whether Kessler could have beaten Calzaghe. But as i said, depending on what the future holds for Kessler, it could leave even more of a mark on Calzaghe's reputation.
I know this is just speculation - and most ppl wont agree with it. Just tryin to say there are different ways of looking at it.
See if you'll defend PBF for fighting the very fragile Judah and the rest of his 2nd rate wins, how can you criticise Joe for fighting Johnson. Just a few months back when we all did our lists of best opp for Joe, Johnson was on your list! So how has he slipped so far within months to the extent that he no longer means anything? In the last 2 years, Johnson has beat Woods, Jones, Tarver, perhaps his 3 biggest career wins. You are talking BS and you know it.Mattyp151 wrote:A couple of those fights were eliminators, Judah was still one of the most viewed fights of the year.lvlarc_uk wrote:Quite rich coming from someone that licks PBF's ass. How is Glengoffe not a credible opp, he is a major guy at 175 that brings a world title, just last year if Woods beats Johnson then of course Woods would be more credible. Sure I'd like to see Calzaghe beat Kessler instead, but Johnson is still a good fight.Mattyp151 wrote:
Sounds like he wants to fight Johnson because he is yet another guy who will not move and would be another easy win.
I also love the "terrorization of super middleweight"...it's hard to terrorize when you take not even a handful of tough fights. Woods or Johnson does nothing for him.
If Johnson/Woods does nothing for Calzaghe, how can you defend PBF for facing Gatti, Mitchell, Brusseles, Corley, Judah etc (after losing to Baldo!)
Because let's face it, you do.
As for Joe fighting Glenn, he's had at least two fights when Glen was a far better fighter. Now that Glenn is clearly on the slide, Joe can't stop talking about how much he wants the fight. That's my issue. When the fight would've been HUGE, Joe found a way to get out of it. Now that Glenn isn't Glenn anymore, Joe can't jump at the fight fast enough. It's not like Judah was on a slide, the guy had the same problems against Baldo that plagued him his entire career, but he has time to improve and change. Glenn is the guy he's always been, just not as good.
Not to mention, Johnson is a come forward, stand and deliver type fighter, the same type of fighter Joe has been beating for years. He knows he can win because he's fought this same fight 30 times in his career. Yes, Johnson would still bring a title at 175, but is 1/4th the title at 175 worth more than 100% of 168, especially after spending 100% of your career at 168?
Pundit you say Johnson is OLLLLLDDDD, well Beyer is no spring chicken at 35.
Brilliant. I think Matty has made a mistake by saying that Johnson / Woods would do nothing for Calzaghe. Yes there is an extremelly good argument for Joe to fight Kessler, Id love to see it. But it is a crazy crazy thing to say that fighting the the winner of Johnson / Woods would do nothing for Joe, more importantly it completely disrespects what both these world class fighters have achieved.lvlarc_uk wrote:See if you'll defend PBF for fighting the very fragile Judah and the rest of his 2nd rate wins, how can you criticise Joe for fighting Johnson. Just a few months back when we all did our lists of best opp for Joe, Johnson was on your list! So how has he slipped so far within months to the extent that he no longer means anything? In the last 2 years, Johnson has beat Woods, Jones, Tarver, perhaps his 3 biggest career wins. You are talking BS and you know it.Mattyp151 wrote:A couple of those fights were eliminators, Judah was still one of the most viewed fights of the year.lvlarc_uk wrote: Quite rich coming from someone that licks PBF's ass. How is Glengoffe not a credible opp, he is a major guy at 175 that brings a world title, just last year if Woods beats Johnson then of course Woods would be more credible. Sure I'd like to see Calzaghe beat Kessler instead, but Johnson is still a good fight.
If Johnson/Woods does nothing for Calzaghe, how can you defend PBF for facing Gatti, Mitchell, Brusseles, Corley, Judah etc (after losing to Baldo!)
Because let's face it, you do.
As for Joe fighting Glenn, he's had at least two fights when Glen was a far better fighter. Now that Glenn is clearly on the slide, Joe can't stop talking about how much he wants the fight. That's my issue. When the fight would've been HUGE, Joe found a way to get out of it. Now that Glenn isn't Glenn anymore, Joe can't jump at the fight fast enough. It's not like Judah was on a slide, the guy had the same problems against Baldo that plagued him his entire career, but he has time to improve and change. Glenn is the guy he's always been, just not as good.
Not to mention, Johnson is a come forward, stand and deliver type fighter, the same type of fighter Joe has been beating for years. He knows he can win because he's fought this same fight 30 times in his career. Yes, Johnson would still bring a title at 175, but is 1/4th the title at 175 worth more than 100% of 168, especially after spending 100% of your career at 168?
Pundit you say Johnson is OLLLLLDDDD, well Beyer is no spring chicken at 35.
I don't remember doing a list, please show me if you can find it. I'd be willing to say since Lacy lost that Kessler is the next big fight for him.lvlarc_uk wrote:See if you'll defend PBF for fighting the very fragile Judah and the rest of his 2nd rate wins, how can you criticise Joe for fighting Johnson. Just a few months back when we all did our lists of best opp for Joe, Johnson was on your list! So how has he slipped so far within months to the extent that he no longer means anything? In the last 2 years, Johnson has beat Woods, Jones, Tarver, perhaps his 3 biggest career wins. You are talking BS and you know it.Mattyp151 wrote:A couple of those fights were eliminators, Judah was still one of the most viewed fights of the year.lvlarc_uk wrote: Quite rich coming from someone that licks PBF's ass. How is Glengoffe not a credible opp, he is a major guy at 175 that brings a world title, just last year if Woods beats Johnson then of course Woods would be more credible. Sure I'd like to see Calzaghe beat Kessler instead, but Johnson is still a good fight.
If Johnson/Woods does nothing for Calzaghe, how can you defend PBF for facing Gatti, Mitchell, Brusseles, Corley, Judah etc (after losing to Baldo!)
Because let's face it, you do.
As for Joe fighting Glenn, he's had at least two fights when Glen was a far better fighter. Now that Glenn is clearly on the slide, Joe can't stop talking about how much he wants the fight. That's my issue. When the fight would've been HUGE, Joe found a way to get out of it. Now that Glenn isn't Glenn anymore, Joe can't jump at the fight fast enough. It's not like Judah was on a slide, the guy had the same problems against Baldo that plagued him his entire career, but he has time to improve and change. Glenn is the guy he's always been, just not as good.
Not to mention, Johnson is a come forward, stand and deliver type fighter, the same type of fighter Joe has been beating for years. He knows he can win because he's fought this same fight 30 times in his career. Yes, Johnson would still bring a title at 175, but is 1/4th the title at 175 worth more than 100% of 168, especially after spending 100% of your career at 168?
Pundit you say Johnson is OLLLLLDDDD, well Beyer is no spring chicken at 35.
Matty, that is fair enough what you say about Kessler being the biggest fight for Joe. But come admit that your statement about Woods and Johnson doing nothing for Joe was over the top. They are both world class fighters who have achieved a great deal. If Joe fought either of these it would be a valid and decent test foe legitimate world belt.Mattyp151 wrote:I don't remember doing a list, please show me if you can find it. I'd be willing to say since Lacy lost that Kessler is the next big fight for him.lvlarc_uk wrote:See if you'll defend PBF for fighting the very fragile Judah and the rest of his 2nd rate wins, how can you criticise Joe for fighting Johnson. Just a few months back when we all did our lists of best opp for Joe, Johnson was on your list! So how has he slipped so far within months to the extent that he no longer means anything? In the last 2 years, Johnson has beat Woods, Jones, Tarver, perhaps his 3 biggest career wins. You are talking BS and you know it.Mattyp151 wrote: A couple of those fights were eliminators, Judah was still one of the most viewed fights of the year.
As for Joe fighting Glenn, he's had at least two fights when Glen was a far better fighter. Now that Glenn is clearly on the slide, Joe can't stop talking about how much he wants the fight. That's my issue. When the fight would've been HUGE, Joe found a way to get out of it. Now that Glenn isn't Glenn anymore, Joe can't jump at the fight fast enough. It's not like Judah was on a slide, the guy had the same problems against Baldo that plagued him his entire career, but he has time to improve and change. Glenn is the guy he's always been, just not as good.
Not to mention, Johnson is a come forward, stand and deliver type fighter, the same type of fighter Joe has been beating for years. He knows he can win because he's fought this same fight 30 times in his career. Yes, Johnson would still bring a title at 175, but is 1/4th the title at 175 worth more than 100% of 168, especially after spending 100% of your career at 168?
Pundit you say Johnson is OLLLLLDDDD, well Beyer is no spring chicken at 35.
If it's after Kessler/Beyer, I have no problem. By saying it does nothing, I mean it as he has a job left to do at 168. He ruins what he's done if he jumps ship at 168 to go fight at 175. Honestly, how many people would leave a weight class if unifying, and not just 2 belts, but all 4 major belts and the Ring belt, was merely 1 fight away for them? Not many.fist wrote:Matty, that is fair enough what you say about Kessler being the biggest fight for Joe. But come admit that your statement about Woods and Johnson doing nothing for Joe was over the top. They are both world class fighters who have achieved a great deal. If Joe fought either of these it would be a valid and decent test foe legitimate world belt.Mattyp151 wrote:I don't remember doing a list, please show me if you can find it. I'd be willing to say since Lacy lost that Kessler is the next big fight for him.lvlarc_uk wrote: See if you'll defend PBF for fighting the very fragile Judah and the rest of his 2nd rate wins, how can you criticise Joe for fighting Johnson. Just a few months back when we all did our lists of best opp for Joe, Johnson was on your list! So how has he slipped so far within months to the extent that he no longer means anything? In the last 2 years, Johnson has beat Woods, Jones, Tarver, perhaps his 3 biggest career wins. You are talking BS and you know it.
Pundit you say Johnson is OLLLLLDDDD, well Beyer is no spring chicken at 35.
Well there are many factors to Calzaghe v Kessler happening. Lets not forget when Kessler v Lacy was being discussed the Danes were talking telephone numbers. Calzaghe would no doubt want the lions share. I'd say Calzaghe should take a 50-50 split he will no doubt get home advantage as the fight is worth way more in the UK than Denmark - and get the fight made then move up to 175.
Kessler made a million bucks before Lacy even called, so asking for 900K of a 1.5 million purse doesn't seem as excessive. It's even less excessive if Lacy got home field advantage. However, Kessler did offer Lacy the entire pot if he came to Denmark, which was turned down. I just don't think negotiations got going very well for either side and they nixed it before it became realistic.nickd wrote:Well there are many factors to Calzaghe v Kessler happening. Lets not forget when Kessler v Lacy was being discussed the Danes were talking telephone numbers. Calzaghe would no doubt want the lions share. I'd say Calzaghe should take a 50-50 split he will no doubt get home advantage as the fight is worth way more in the UK than Denmark - and get the fight made then move up to 175.
The same danes also OFFERED "telephone numbers", if Lacy would come to Denmark to fight - the exact same amount as they asked to come to the US. But Shaw/Lacy wanted none of that.nickd wrote:...Lets not forget when Kessler v Lacy was being discussed the Danes were talking telephone numbers
Obviously Kessler is not gonna risk two major belts for free. So if Calzaghe wants it - he's gonna have to make a compromise. Something he's usually not happy with.
So, once again - it won't happen.
Calzaghe took a hit to face Lacy so you never know, lets hope his legacy is more important than money at this stage.dumdane wrote:The same danes also OFFERED "telephone numbers", if Lacy would come to Denmark to fight - the exact same amount as they asked to come to the US. But Shaw/Lacy wanted none of that.nickd wrote:...Lets not forget when Kessler v Lacy was being discussed the Danes were talking telephone numbers
Obviously Kessler is not gonna risk two major belts for free. So if Calzaghe wants it - he's gonna have to make a compromise. Something he's usually not happy with.
So, once again - it won't happen.
Money can't be an issue, the guy could fight a decent opponent and sell out MEN in a heartbeat.nickd wrote:Calzaghe took a hit to face Lacy so you never know, lets hope his legacy is more important than money at this stage.dumdane wrote:The same danes also OFFERED "telephone numbers", if Lacy would come to Denmark to fight - the exact same amount as they asked to come to the US. But Shaw/Lacy wanted none of that.nickd wrote:...Lets not forget when Kessler v Lacy was being discussed the Danes were talking telephone numbers
Obviously Kessler is not gonna risk two major belts for free. So if Calzaghe wants it - he's gonna have to make a compromise. Something he's usually not happy with.
So, once again - it won't happen.
Lets hope it happens. Calzaghe v Kessler/Beyer winner is a way bigger fight than Calzaghe v Woods/Johnson IMO. And will look better on Calzaghe's ledger.Mattyp151 wrote:Money can't be an issue, the guy could fight a decent opponent and sell out MEN in a heartbeat.nickd wrote:Calzaghe took a hit to face Lacy so you never know, lets hope his legacy is more important than money at this stage.dumdane wrote: The same danes also OFFERED "telephone numbers", if Lacy would come to Denmark to fight - the exact same amount as they asked to come to the US. But Shaw/Lacy wanted none of that.
Obviously Kessler is not gonna risk two major belts for free. So if Calzaghe wants it - he's gonna have to make a compromise. Something he's usually not happy with.
So, once again - it won't happen.
Calzaghe, at this stage in his career could probably sell 30-40,000 tickets for the Millennium Stadium.
Anyway, I don't know why people are getting all weak kneed about Kessler. The bloke has only beaten one decent fighter in Mundine, and in all honesty, Mundine wasn't as good as either Brewer or Mitchell. And beating up a 'ready for the taking' Beyer is hardly going to be a feather in the cap.
Anyway, I don't know why people are getting all weak kneed about Kessler. The bloke has only beaten one decent fighter in Mundine, and in all honesty, Mundine wasn't as good as either Brewer or Mitchell. And beating up a 'ready for the taking' Beyer is hardly going to be a feather in the cap.
Mundine is a much better fighter than you give him credit for. Brewer also gets overrated because he KOed Graham. However, Brewer lost to Echols two fights before he fought Joe, and I wouldn't call Echols more than a good fighter at best. Brewer wasn't that big accomplishment that everyone sees him to be. Ottke got two close ones against him, but Ottke also wouldn't have ever been 34-0 outside of Germany.Taki... wrote:Calzaghe, at this stage in his career could probably sell 30-40,000 tickets for the Millennium Stadium.
Anyway, I don't know why people are getting all weak kneed about Kessler. The bloke has only beaten one decent fighter in Mundine, and in all honesty, Mundine wasn't as good as either Brewer or Mitchell. And beating up a 'ready for the taking' Beyer is hardly going to be a feather in the cap.
Yeah your right Kessler has an awful lot to prove. Is his boxing record on here correct - that he has only fought 12 rounders matches 8 times??Taki... wrote:Calzaghe, at this stage in his career could probably sell 30-40,000 tickets for the Millennium Stadium.
Anyway, I don't know why people are getting all weak kneed about Kessler. The bloke has only beaten one decent fighter in Mundine, and in all honesty, Mundine wasn't as good as either Brewer or Mitchell. And beating up a 'ready for the taking' Beyer is hardly going to be a feather in the cap.
His last 8 rounder was in 2002, when he was 23, and had only been fighting pro for 4 years.fist wrote:Yeah your right Kessler has an awful lot to prove. Is his boxing record on here correct - that he has only fought 12 rounders matches 8 times??Taki... wrote:Calzaghe, at this stage in his career could probably sell 30-40,000 tickets for the Millennium Stadium.
Anyway, I don't know why people are getting all weak kneed about Kessler. The bloke has only beaten one decent fighter in Mundine, and in all honesty, Mundine wasn't as good as either Brewer or Mitchell. And beating up a 'ready for the taking' Beyer is hardly going to be a feather in the cap.
Yes, Kessler is still unproven.fist wrote:Yeah your right Kessler has an awful lot to prove. Is his boxing record on here correct - that he has only fought 12 rounders matches 8 times??Taki... wrote:Calzaghe, at this stage in his career could probably sell 30-40,000 tickets for the Millennium Stadium.
Anyway, I don't know why people are getting all weak kneed about Kessler. The bloke has only beaten one decent fighter in Mundine, and in all honesty, Mundine wasn't as good as either Brewer or Mitchell. And beating up a 'ready for the taking' Beyer is hardly going to be a feather in the cap.
Keep in mind he's 2 years younger than Lacy (or Froch for that matter) and has admittedly been brought foreward carefully.
He has potential though.