Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Many years ago I considered trips to Tijuana for dental and ortho procedures. Decided against it because I realized I'd be powerless if I needed civil court involvement for anything that goes wrong. But this aside, I wasn't worried about the competency of the dentists/orthos.
[/quote]

Yeah,civil court involvement essentially means do you have enough money to bribe someone.Not many Mexicans do so they don't worry about it.

[dagosd2000]

Encore

"Boxers who could box well who didn't". What's a boxer doing in the ring if he isn't boxing? Even if he's in trouble he's drawing on all his survival(boxing) skills to hang in there.

If he's like a Henry Armstrong or a Joe Frazier going pedal to the metal he's still boxing. Someone mentioned Ray Robinson. Robinson softened his guy up boxing him ,and then when he he had him in his crosshairs he finished him off. A fighter is always boxing. He's implementing what works for him.

Tommy Hearns when he got stung by Ray Leonard in their first fight,went to stay alive by moving with his legs. You could say he went to plan B.

But a boxer who doesn't box because he doesn't want to? How do you spell O-X-Y-M-O-R-O-N?




Henry Armstrong

[dagosd2000]

n
If You Don't Succeed,Screw It.

I tried posting that video of The Little Rascals again.Something about my browser is on the fritz..What the hell is a browser?

So I'll say something. Looking forward to seeing Crawford and Spence fight in a couple of weeks. This is like Mayweather and Pacquiao but I think it will be better. Don't see much building up to this one.That's a shame. These kids that are hooked on these UFC scraps would take notice about what two fighters with all the goods can do in the ring. It could give boxing a much needed shot in the arm.


Terence Crawford

[dagosd2000]

Those Were The Good Old Days

These kids today think they know good music. Now when I was a kid we had groups like the Haircuts. This was real class.MIght not have been Cole Porter but what did my old man know anyway.

[dagosd2000]

A Star Is Reborn

When all the Italians gathered around the big box TV in the living room of Diamond Joe's old house to watch the fight between Jake LaMotta and Sugar Ray Robinson on Valentine's Day there was no doubt that dago Jake would leave the Chicago Stadium still the middleweight champ.

I had never seen Sugar Robinson fight before,nor LaMotta for that matter.But I had heard al the stories about LaMotta handing Robinson his first loss as a pro and believed that that was only fight prior between the two. I never heard any talk on Southwest Side that Robinson had a 4 to 1 edge on Jake going into the fight in Chicago.

Well, I certainly didn't want to get the back of the hand from my old man and say that I wanted Robinson to win that night.I just wanted Robinson to win that's all. The greaseballs in that living room wanted blood,all Suger Ray's.

As the fight stared I could see that LaMotta was going after Robinson in a manner to rough him up and find a quick end. The living room crew sensed an early victory. But as the fight moved into the middle rounds I could see Robinson had let Jake shoot his load, and now Robby had him on weak pins. The look on Jake's puss told the story. After the fight moved into the double digit frames the handwriting on the wall.Robinson was using him for target practice. In the end The Sons Of Italy were left speechless and I played along.

Robinson was now the star in boxing circles.He traveled to Europe with his entourage,got caught up in Parisian night life,and left the continent after getting caught with his pants down so to speak by Randy Turpin. There was a rematch in the ballpark after Ray arrived home, and everything was the way it ought to be.

But now Robinson's management thought he could go up a weight and be sitting on the light heavy throne.The champ at the time was the pitter patterer,Joey Maxim. The fight was again in the ballpark and in the middle of a heat wave. Ray lost only for the third time in his career in over 135 fights.It was the heat that beat Robinson they said more than Maxim. Joey never bought that analysis.

Robinson retired after that fight. He said he was going to test showbizz.Because he could skip rope better than any kid in the schoolyard he thought he'd try being a hoofer.He also thought he could sing. The curiosity seekers lined up.

But Robinson's talent was only skin deep. He was a Course 101 er.After the novelty wore off and his finances had dwindled, Robinson decide the only way he'd get his hands on some dough again and be be the star he once was was to return to the ring.

The second time I saw Ray Robinson fight live was again at Diamond Joe's old house on the corner of Polk and Oakley sitting in the living room with the same cast of characters.This time Robinson wasn't fighting for any championship.He was just trying to reset himself.Afte laying off for 3 years they put a journeyman black fighter, who was on a 5 fight losing skid in front of him, called Ralph "Tiger" Jones. I don't think the room felt one way or the other except me,the secret Ray Robinson fan.

Well,Robby had a tiger by the tail that night. Jones,a stocky guy with a barrel chest,bullrushed Robinson the entire fight winning almost every round. It was a bigger shocker than the Turpin loss. It was evident that Robinson was not the same man that he was before hanging up the gloves. Robby ,who had those spindly legs,could no longer do their job.

After that loss Robinson would lose another 14 times.He re won the middleweight title twice but he never dominated again.He finally settled in Los Angeles.He lived hand to mouth; borrowing here and there,paying some of it back.I don't think the lenders really cared.You could see him from time to time working out at the Main Street Gym wearing a rubber suit and hitting the heavy bag..If you asked him how he was doing he'd say,"I gotta get down to one sixty if I'm going to fight LaMotta."


Sugar Ray Robinson singing in French...

and dancing in the chorus line. I don't think Sinatra or Astaire had anything to worry about.

[dagosd2000]

Sugar Ray Robinson.
Denny Moyer fought everybody over time. He won more than he lost some. But the victory he was most proud of was the time he beat Sugar Ray Robinson.THey fought twice.Moyer lost the first fight,but came back to beat Robinson decisively in the rematch. After the decision was announced Robinson went over to Denny's corner and gave him a heartfelt congratulation. Denny was one happy fella'. He could say he beat the greatest.

[dagosd2000]

A Bad Rug,But Maybe Not So Bad A Guy

When prior to their championship fight in 1939 Tony Galento was calling Joe Louis "a bum" in public. He even called Joe on the phone and reiterated the insult..

Now Joe Louis was a type of fellow who never had a disparaging word towards an opponent.Yeah,he was coached not to say anything naughty about who he was fighting but Joe wasn't that type of guy.He did his fighting in the ring , not with his mouth.

So when roly poly Tony started sounding off about Louis being "a bum" Louis became befuddled. He couldn't understand why anyone would talk in such a way.No one had ever done that to him before. Tony's lack of manners thus made Louis take stock. He would deliberately "carry" Galento(literally that would have hard to do with Tony weighing in at 233 pounds)into the later rounds,and after punishing him severely for his unkindly remarks, then giving him the coup de grace.

ButJoe had his hands full with Two Ton Tony. In the 3rd round one of Galento's wild swings put Louis on the canvas.He bounced back up but decided then and there to get this thing over with.Louis went o work and put Tony on the deck for the first time in his career. Into the 4th round with Galento ,stumbling around like a man blinded and bleeding like a stuck pig, Arthur Donovan called off the slaughter.

After the fight Galento stewed that he lost because after flooring Joe his corner told Tony to "box him".Not even if you believed in Santa Claus did you swallow that one.

There's on YouTube a video of that interview with Joe Louis and Tony Galento(I believe in the 70's) on that show "The Way It Was" hosted by Curt Gowdy and guest Don Dunphy. There's Joe and Tony sitting there side by side;Joe in a polyester and Tony in an even louder version and sporting a bad wig..

Now they're looking at the replay and maybe you'd think Tony would be whining.But no,he said that Joe louis was the best fighter he ever fought and it was an honor to do fight him and that Joe would have beaten Dempsey. Asked if he would have fought Joe differently, Tony replied that he gave it his best shot and couldn't beat him.

There was Tony,with the bad polyester and even a worse hairpiece.He didn't seem like a bad guy.Joe Louis said that he still couldn't understand Tony's hype but the dago had given him his toughest fight up to that time.Joe never did kick a man when he was down.


Tony Galento

[dagosd2000]

A Stroll To The Dressing Room

After Carmen Basilio retired from fighting my father kind of lost interest with boxing.Marciano was gone ,and Patterson didn't make an impression on the old man. Then there was Liston, and my father thought he was a big bluff with that deadly stare down of his.And then when Basilio was finished my father was through with boxing-almost.Ali came along but my father didn't go in for all his yakking;It wasn't his style. it wasn't that my old man hated Ali,and then when Ali refused to go into the Army that didn't bother my father either.Hell, he was in two of the biggest battles of the war-Peleliu and Okinawa with the Corps. He figured Vietnam was all politics and he didn't want to see my ass shot off for that one.

My father would take me to the fights once in awhile.He liked th fights in TJ.That's because he was always looking for some hot prospect he could take under his wing for a song.He was keeping his eye on a local down there ,Rosendo Ruvalcaba,who was tall and had a good reach.But Rosendo also had a yen for the ladies.He was a good looking kid,a real Latin heartthrob.

Me and the old man went down to see Rosendo fight in the bullring against a journeyman from The Apple,the Puertorican, Papo Villa.Ruvalcaba was on the undercard but I guess he was so good looking they put his face on the front of the program. Well, it didn't take long for Villa to spoil those good looks. He hit Rosendo on the button and he went down hard. First time I ever saw this:Ruvalcaba had his legs under him but he had lost all control of his torso.He couldn't get control of himself. Everybody was laughing, He looked like a duck on downers. in short time Ruvalcaba went from cinematic star to seeing stars. My old man threw in the towel with Rosendo after that performance.

But I got a little ahead of myself.In 1968 my father wanted to see Luis Rodriguez fight the Mexican middleweight champ,Rafael Gutierrez ,the winner to fight Nino Benvenuti for all the marbles.It surprised me that the old man wanted to go but I thought it'd be good for him to get out of the house.

The Nose was trained by Angelo Dundee. Well, kinda'. Angelo would drop in a week before the fight and make an appearance. The fight was at The sports Arena before a modest crowd. Jose Napoles came down from LA to glad hand his Cuban compadre.

I thought Louie would make short work of the Mexican but this guy was one tough hombre. Gutierrez was in control and looked the stronger.I said to my father that something must be "wrong" with Rodriguez. My father's response was ,"Wait."

Rodriguez came out for the 6th round behind on the cards. He still looked flat as the the round was coming to the end,and then Louie threw a left hook that looked like it flew in airmail from El Segundo,and put the Mexican in Siestaland.

Next thing I know is my old man is climbing into the ring. My father,with a s--t eating grin goes up to Dundee,puts his arm around him, and walks him down to the dressing room.
"Well, Ange.You got your title shot,"I head him say.
Well I'm sitting there holding my dick thinking,"You're not even going to introduce me?"
My old man must have wanted to say something that he didn't want me to hear.


Luis Rodriguez

[dagosd2000]

All The Cats Join In

I didn't talk to Archie Moore much. He was so busy at his ABC boys club that unless he had something to say to me I held my tongue. But like I've mentioned in the past he did like to talk about music of the jazz ilk.

Even though I was a whitey he liked to converse with me on the subject because the rest of the brothers who'd drop by were mostly into Motown.Moore was old school and his tastes were vintage.But when I got to know him he was into bop and guys like Parker and Monk. My ears were open to jazz like his yet he was my father's age. I'd never bring up boxing unless he started,and that was rare. But jazz music was something we could bounce off each other.

There was a time after the war he briefly gave up fighting to play the string bass in Lucky Thompson's group. Thompson's axe was the tenor saxophone and Moore went on the road with him a bit.

Boxing is a tough gig to make a living at,but being a be bop black jazz musician was like climbing Mt. Everest wearing flip flops. Even the best white musicians were starving to death. (Starving and musician seem always to go hand in hand).

After the war the clubs that featured that kind of music were closing their doors. 52 nd Street in New York ,which was a hot spot for Be Bop jazz,was morphing into strip joints.Harlem still had some after hour places but they weren't going to bring in Ward and June Cleaver. The 50's had arrived and in the beginning it was Perry Come and by the end of the decade Elvis had taken over. Be Bop had no sound.

But Archie Moore was a diehard fan and so was I. I had never heard Archie Moore play the standup bass. Bass players were 't showcased much anyway. They provided the rhythm to let the horns to solo and get all the glory.

The bass seemed to be the thing with fighters. Ezzard Charles played the string bass. Jack Johnson was on the bandstand in his club in Chicago plucking away on the instrument. I think Jersey Joe Walcott.also was a bass payer of the genre. You need big strong fingers to play the bass. You can bet these guys had the hands.

Archie Moore didn't stay with Lucky Thompson's group very long. There're two professions ,boxing and being a jazz musician, that don't mesh.It's one or the other.If a fighter wants to break training all he has to do is be a jazz musician. I think Moore knew he'd never cut it with music.Besides,he had a wife and family and with that expenses.He would have lost everything being one of the cats,especially being black. But music is different today with race. Now all the cats join in.



Benny Goodman's band was the first "white" band to integrate black musicians into the ensemble.


Archie Moore



Looks like Ezzard Charles sat in with Charlie Parker one night. Looks like somewhere on 52nd Street in New York

[dagosd2000]

BoxRec Got It Wrong

Looking at the thread about how a referee influenced the outcome of a fight there's a glaring example of this that happened in 1962.

An undefeated Vicente Saldivar was in the ring against the Cuban refugee Baby Luis in the Mexico City bullring.(Sugar Ramos was also on that card).Saldivar,a notoriously slow starter was floored by the crafty Luis in the 2nd round. The tape of the fight is on YouTube. The broadcasters are Mexican speaking Spanish. The tape for some reason blanks out rounds 3 and 4.The action returns in the 5th. At this point you can see that Saldivar has gotten it in gear and is banging away at Luis. Ditto in the 6th. Then before the start of the 7th round there is a stall with the the referee conferring with the judges. The broadcasters are in the dark.Suddenly,the referee goes over to Luis' corner and raises the Cuban's hand declaring him the victor. Now all hell breaks loose.People are throwing things and Saldivar's corner(and Vicente) are obviously upset. The announcers are befuddled saying that Luis has been awarded the fight on a disqualification for headbutting according to the officials. In what was seen on the tape there was no headbutting nor any warning from the ref.BoxRec has this fight listed as a TKO loss against Saldivar.It should be recorded as a DQ loss instead.

I know that the BoxRec editors are proud of their recordkeeping but they've blown it on this one.



Vicente Saldivar

[dagosd2000]

Not a live commentary but if you understand Spanish what transpired is explained:referee Magana awards the fight to Luis on the foul.

[dagosd2000]

The Rising Sun Over Tijuana

Before Kuniaka Shibata signed to fight Vicente Saldivar for the featherweight championship at the Municipal Auditorium in Tijuana I had never heard of him.

I was a little surprised that they didn't have the fight in the bullring that had a larger seating capacity.Saldivar was as popular with the aficianados as any Mexican fighter at the time.The only blemish on his record was a controversial DQ against the Cuban transplant Baby Luis who he later took apart in the rematch.

Shibata hadn't fought outside of Japan and all his 32 wins were against rickshaw drivers. The American veteran, Dwight Hawkins,made the trip over to the land of The Rising Sun and made him say sayonara in round 7. Shibata's other loss was also of the KO variety by one Hubert Kang. Yeah,might as well put this one in the Municipal Auditorium.

One thing I had in mind was that the Japanese fighters were always in great shape and incorporated a Banzai charge in their attack. What most of them lacked was that one punch knockout power. Maybe that was because they were always so active that they didn't sit down with their punches to get more leverage in the blow.

Now most of their Mexican adversaries were the opposite. The Mexican fighter of that day was a left hook artists and liked to work downstairs. You could say they were stronger and carried the higher percentage of knockouts on their records but sometimes they wouldn't be in top condition and that obviously would work against them.

During the 60's and 70's there was a hot rivalry between the Japanese and Mexican fighters.Alacran Torres and Hanagata;Ruben Olivares and Kanazawa;Joe Medel and Harada;and now there would be Vicente Saldivar and Shibata. That's a lot of "a's " at the end of their names.

It was a last minute decision for me when I decided to take a ride across the border.The Municipal Auditorium was full that night but there wasn't the usual electricity in the air. I think that was because everyone thought that Saldivar would make short work of Shibata.

When the bell sounded for the 1st round Shibata went right after him. He had Saldivar on the ropes banging away with both hands.This was going to be his modus operandi for the fight.But Saldivar was always slow getting out of the gate.He needed to get his face slapped a few times before he came to life.He'd get stronger as time went on.But as the fight progressed Shibata had slapped him enough times that I thought Saldivar would eat his can of spinach and turn the tideThe arena sensed something was amiss. The aficianados weren't heaping anything derisive on Shibata but wondering out loud if Saldivar might have drank the water.He was waning instead of sprouting wings like an eagle.His hopes were fading along with his crown. At the start of the 12th his corner wouldn't let him go out.Saldivar didn't make a scene.

When it was over the Mexican judges had the fight close.One of them even had Saldivar ahead.

Saldivar had one more fight left in him before he retired.He won a decision over Frankie Crawford up in LA.Two years later he tried to come back into form and did a dumb thing by not building himself back up again properly. He went straight into the lion's den with Eder Jofre .who was also on the comeback trail ,winning the featherweight title from Jose Legra,Eder was his old self again. But Jofre accompllshed it without rushing, taking it step by step.Saldivar got destroyed in 4 rounds down in Brazil.

There's no film of that fight.I don't think the aficianados would want to look at it anyway.I don't think all the spinach in the world would have helped Saldivar.


Eder Jofre

[dagosd2000]

Bringing Up Baby

Mentioned Baby Luis,the Cuban fighter, the other day with his first go with Vicente Saldivar. If you saw the film of that one on YouTube you could see Luis was loaded with potential. Just is,he never lived up to it.His daddy was a pro pug and taught him the ABC's of the sport. But when it came time to doing his homework everyday Luis was out living in the fast lane instead. When he should have been cracking the books so to speak in the gym, Baby was playing hooky most of the time..Luis was part of that exiled crew of Cubans-Jose Napoles,Sugar Ramos, and Jose Legra who now, having fled their native soil, were looking for a spot to make a soft landing. Mexico was one of those test spots.

Luis' ability was on the level of his pals but his work ethic could be compared to another fighter who wasted what he was born with,Mando Ramos.

Just prior to Castro banning pro boxing on the island, Luis beat an up and comer(like himself)Jose Legra in Havana, flooring him twice on way to winning a lopsided decision.

In his boxing anthology of Cuban fighters,Hard Leather,Enrique Encinosa tells an anecdote about how Ferdie Pacheco flew down to Mexico City frantically trying to locate Luis to get him in line for a potential fight Howard Winstone.Pacheco searched every gym in the capital,and when he came up dry ,he started working on the cantinas.Finally, Ferdie ran into a disheveled and burned out Luis.Asked where he had been hiding Luis gave the wrong answer.
"I had a bag of marijuana and spent time on top of a hill trying to find the meaning of life,"was his excuse.
"Well, did you ever find it?"asked Pacheco.
"I ran out of marijuana and I need some more,"was his brilliant reply.

Baby Luis never did get his act together to fight Howard Winstone. He staggered along with boxing winning some and losing more than he should have, As Naplos,Ramos,and Legra went on to to win titles Luis ,when sober enough,would be seen in some tank town arena fighting for enough money to buy that bag of marijuana.He later was murdered in a drug deal that went bad. He thought he could make enough money so he could buy all the marijuana in the world and the other dope that dreams are made of.But those are the dreams that turn into nightmares.

[dagosd2000]

What It's Coming Down To

The Heavyweight Champion Of The World is going to put on an exhibition or maybe a title defense(the champ hasn't made up his mind yet) in Saudi Arabia on October 28th.The guy he's fighting has never had a professional fight.He's a MIxed Martial Arts guy He says his dream has always been to be a professional boxer. He's jumped right up to the top in a harry.

They'll hype this one up as being the Fight Of The Century. I wonder what all those contenders in the division are thinking?But then there's not really a lot of interest in those guys either.

You can buy this whatever it is on Pay Per View or you can find a way of getting to Saudi Arabia.

The irony of all this is that this whatever it is will show in the black when it's all done. When it's over I'll read about it on the internet and view the comments.I got a feeling most scribblers will think they got ripped off. But it's their own fault. The public buys this stuff. What do the think they are going to get?They bankroll these dog and pony shows.

You notice I didn't use any names here.They aren't worth mentioning.

[dagosd2000]

Shaking Out The Cobwebs

I've never been much interested in watching ex athletes go though the motions participating in old timer baseball games,senior PGA championships,or boxing exhibitions.

I remember when Willie Pep and Sugar Ray Robinson did this exhibition(I don't want to use the word "fought")back in 1965.I'll just call it what I called it yesterday-"whatever it is"Robinson had retired a month earlier after losing a decision to Joey Archer.Believe it or not Pep was still active.Both were the same age when they did this whatever it was-43 years of age.Boston was picked for the site.

It turned out to be sort of a joke.They had nothing to prove, There were no punches of mean intentions. If it was to be a taste of what these two greatest P4P boxers had left it was apparent from the get go that the well went dry a long time ago. But I can't believe anyone watching expected anything else. No one hyped this whatever it was as anything more than two old ex pugs having some fun. I guess the only word that fit was "exhibition" yet they exhibited nothing that resembled a fight,and it shouldn't have.They couldn't fight anymore,at least like they did in their primes or close to it.

Today, they would have talked this whatever it was as something to take seriously. They would have put it on PPV and charged up the ass and the suckers would have swallowed it hook line and sinker and Robinson and Pep would have laughed all the way to the bank.

These guys like Tyson,Mayweather,and now Fury can see how easy it is to make big money and not have to bust their asses in the gym. But I can't blame them. It's these greedy promoters. Now they don't have to protect their fighters from engaging each other.All they have to do is shake out the cobwebs as long as they aren't in wheelchairs.


For what it really was.



Sugar Ray Robinson

[dagosd2000]

Willie Pep

[dagosd2000]

No Big Deal

Rodolfo Gonzalez told me when he fought Antonio Cervantes the fight was even going into the 8th round but that a cut eye he sustained earlier was the cause of the stoppage.
"I knocked him down and he knocked me down and he had a cut over his eye and I had a cut over my eye and they stopped the fight,"he said in a soft voice.
I hadn't seen the fight ,and there are no tapes of it, so I didn't feel the need to press him more, and let it go at that.Rodolfo just shrugged it off like it was no big deal.

Rodolfo told me that Jose Napoles didn't want to fight him,but it didn't bother him.

He said that Roberto Duran was content to have his half of the lightweight title, and so was he, and they were both happy with that arrangement.Then Rodolfo said that Duran offered him 20 thousand dollars for a unification fight but Rodolfo said that Ishimatsu offered 50 thousand to fight him in Japan.After being stopped two in a row by Ishimatsu ,Rodolfo said he was tired of fighting and retired.

Rodolfo ,after winning the WBC title,said he bought his mother a house in the high end neighborhood Hipodromo in Tijuana. He said he left the deed to the house with his brother Frankie after their mother passed. Meanwhile Rodolfo was living in Oceanside,Californis with his soulmate Barbara, and Frankie was renting out all the rooms in the house in Tijuana. Rodolfo didn't get upset.

Rodolfo's uncle was Joe Becerra.Rodolfo said that his uncle knocked out Eder Jofre to win the championship.
"Didn't your uncle win the bantamweight title from Alphonse Halimi?" I said politely.
"No,my uncle knocked out Eder Jofre,"was his mild retort.

From time to time I'd meet Rodolfo and Barbara for lunch at some restaurant.He'd talk about some movie producers from the middle east who wanted to do a life story about him.He'd always say he had to get back to the house because he was expecting their phone call or they were waiting to meet with him.

The last time I heard from Rodolfo a few years ago he hadn't mentioned the movie producers anymore. He didn't show at Rick Farris' last West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame banquet. Then I had a phone conversation with Dan Hanley and he told me that Rodolfo is in Arizona living with his son.Barbara is in a home being taken care of.

I would sure have liked to have seen that fight between Rodolfo and Cervantes.To me that would have been a big deal.


Antonio Cervantes

[dagosd2000]

No Harm No Foul

Gilbert Baptist was a last minute replacement,almost llterally,for Lamar Parks who was to challenge Gerald McClelland for his WBC middleweight title. Parks had failed his pre fight exam when it was discovered that he was HIV positive.The fight was to take place at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.Everything was set ,and now the promoter,Bobby Lee,had to either find a another challenger or call the whole thing off. Knowing that a cancelation would be a financial catastrophe,Lee got on the horn and made a desperate plea to Baptist if he would fill in.

Baptist had previously fought Parks for the vacant WBC Continental Americas Title(whatever the hell that was) and was stopped by Parks in the 11th round of the scheduled 12.Feeling that Baptist was worthy to face McClelland after that scrap he was rushed in hopefully give the fans some compensation.

The fight was over almost as quick as you could say "Better than nothing" . McClelland had Baptist out of there before the 1st round ended.The last trip Baptist took to the canvas he broke his ankle in the process.

I knew Gilbert Baptist. I was teaching at Juvenile Hall and he was a probation officer. He was friends with Terry Norris.They had fought twice when both were on their way up the ladder. i saw them do battle at the El Cortez Hotel(the property of Mrs. Chiang Kai Shek who bought the joint with money the U.S government had given to her husband to fight the Commies in China).Norris beat Baptist in both. When Terry was prepping to fight Ray Leonard, who had announced a comeback, Gilbert was Norris' mainstay sparring partner.I'd watch them spar at Spud Murphy's gym downtown.

Archie Moore's son ,Billy.was handling Baptist at the time of the McClelland fight. I asked Gllbert later about the fight when I saw him at Point Loma High School checking up on a kid(he was still with the probation department and I was doing a combo teaching/ coaching gig).He was there with his young son who I called "Little Champ."Gilbert said the he was in the gym everyday but that his mind wasn't ready,After the loss he hung up the gloves.

There was something that stuck in my mind about that fight. It was suspected that Lamar Parks might have had HIV prior to being examined by the Vegas doctors. They didn't test for any HIV before Baptist fought Parks previously.

But Gilbert is Ok. He turned to The Good Book and became a preacher. When I was going to The Helping Hand Of God Church in East San Diego,James Kinchen, who had also seen The Light and was a minister,told me that Gilbert would sometimes drop by for a prayer or two.

I want to walk in God's grace I just haven't found my way.Kjerkegaard said that the bridge to heaven is "suffering."I'm either on that bridge or I'm already in hell.


Terry Norris

[dagosd2000]

Merry Christmas

When womens' UFC and now this upcoming thing with the world's heavyweight champion of the world in the ring "Mandingo" Ngannou(Can you believe there's a rematch clause ) not until October getting more copy than the fight on the 29th between the undefeateds Terence Crawford and Errol Spence(Is it still on?)it's time to take stock of boxing.

They talk about the 4 Kings(Leonard,Duran,Hearns,and Hagler) and now the over the shoulder lookers want to throw in a 5th. Wilfred Benitez's name comes up quite often.Well, here's my guy-Aaron Pryor. Here was a non stop Henry Armstrong look alike that crumbled Antonio Cervantes and then Alexis Arguello twice, Pryor temporarily retired undefeated saying he needed a rest but the truth was he had a monkey on his back.He was in and out of rehab for over a year,and then he was back in the ring. But his opponents lacked the star power and the finesse,Pryor had ballooned up and acted logy though he still pushed forward. If you look at his Waterloo against Bobby Joe Young all that former greatness was just a memory.Think if he had retired for good after Arguello? He'd been undefeated with all but one of those wins being of the KO variety.

Yeah but Pryor unraveled. And he had Panama Lewis in his corner("Give me the bottle I mixed").And now boxing is morphing into these sideshows with ex champions with soft bellies and current heavyweight champions with spongy stomachs going through the wind and smoke of strobe lights and fireworks into a mania replacing a sport.

If only the ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.



Aaron Pryor

[Joson]

.Well, here's my guy-Aaron Pryor. Here was a non stop Henry Armstrong look alike that crumbled Antonio Cervantes and then Alexis Arguello twice, Pryor temporarily retired undefeated saying he needed a rest but the truth was he had a monkey on his back.He was in and out of rehab for over a year,and then he was back in the ring. But his opponents lacked the star power and the finesse,Pryor had ballooned up and acted logy though he still pushed forward. If you look at his Waterloo against Bobby Joe Young all that former greatness was just a memory.Think if he had retired for good after Arguello? He'd been undefeated with all but one of those wins being of the KO variety.

Yeah but Pryor unraveled. And he had Panama Lewis in his corner("Give me the bottle I mixed").And now boxing is morphing into these sideshows with ex champions with soft bellies and current heavyweight champions with spongy stomachs going through the wind and smoke of strobe lights and fireworks into a mania replacing a sport.

Aaron Pryor

What's your take on Pryor's fourth round stoppage of Antonio Cervantes in 1980? I was very surprised when it happened. That's because Cervantes had long been touted as a boxing's best and dominant fighters.

Another weird thing is that Cervantes - a world champion who usually fights in his home country of Venezeala - was willing to fight in the challenger's hometown of Cincinnati.

And then of course Cervantes rolled over and wiped out by Pryor. That's a far more decisive ending to the bout that anyone could have imagined. In retrospect, I'm wondering about something.

Maybe everyone involved in staging the bout knew something the public didn't? Could be Cervantes was in deep athletic decline, maybe losing his willpower to train, and his management team decided to cash out early before someone knocked him off?

[dagosd2000]

.Well, here's my guy-Aaron Pryor. Here was a non stop Henry Armstrong look alike that crumbled Antonio Cervantes and then Alexis Arguello twice, Pryor temporarily retired undefeated saying he needed a rest but the truth was he had a monkey on his back.He was in and out of rehab for over a year,and then he was back in the ring. But his opponents lacked the star power and the finesse,Pryor had ballooned up and acted logy though he still pushed forward. If you look at his Waterloo against Bobby Joe Young all that former greatness was just a memory.Think if he had retired for good after Arguello? He'd been undefeated with all but one of those wins being of the KO variety.

Yeah but Pryor unraveled. And he had Panama Lewis in his corner("Give me the bottle I mixed").And now boxing is morphing into these sideshows with ex champions with soft bellies and current heavyweight champions with spongy stomachs going through the wind and smoke of strobe lights and fireworks into a mania replacing a sport.

Aaron Pryor

What's your take on Pryor's fourth round stoppage of Antonio Cervantes in 1980? I was very surprised when it happened. That's because Cervantes had long been touted as a boxing's best and dominant fighters.

Another weird thing is that Cervantes - a world champion who usually fights in his home country of Venezeala - was willing to fight in the challenger's hometown of Cincinnati.

And then of course Cervantes rolled over and wiped out by Pryor. That's a far more decisive ending to the bout that anyone could have imagined. In retrospect, I'm wondering about something.

Maybe everyone involved in staging the bout knew something the public didn't? Could be Cervantes was in deep athletic decline, maybe losing his willpower to train, and his management team decided to cash out early before someone knocked him off?

I was surprised but after looking at the replay there wasn't any fix(if that's what you were implying).The way to go after a good boxer is to put pressure on him.Pryor was the best at that.Besides,when he cut Cervantes he quickly unraveled. Pryor proved it again against Arguello by putting the pressure on.. As far as Cervantes taking the fight in Cincy he had left the Colombia before.(DeJesus and Frazer in Panama,Gonzalez in LA,Kadota in Japan,Benitez in Puerto Rico,and Loche in Argentina).I think he was sure he could beat Pryor and that was another factor besides the money.

BTW:if a fighter is gonna' go in the tank he doesn't let the other guy kick the s--t out of him like Pryor did.

[Joson]

What are your thoughts on Howard Cossell? You must have seen his broadcasts many times during the 1960s and 1970s.

I have a strongly negative view on Cossell as a ringside commentator. He was obnoxious and distracting. He knew little about boxing technicalities and history.

Cossell's baseless and hysterical views on the 1982 Holmes vs. Cobb fight irritated me. Contrary to what Cossell argued, there was never any justification for even thinking about stopping that fight.

Sure, Cobb was athletically and technically outclassed, and always losing by shutout on the scorecards. But the guy was never once hurt, stunned, buckled, or staggered. His stamina never flagged, and at all times he counterattacked as best he could, if inefficiently. Inevitably the bout was going the full distance.

Cossell, IMO, was indulging his narcissism by insisting that Holmes-Cobb was some kind of barbaric, dangerous spectacle which showcased everything inhumane about the sport. Note that, in true drama queen fashion, Cossell picked this moment to announce his retirement from ringside. He probably did that to link his reputation with the then unfolding SJW uproar over the Mancini-Kim tragedy.

[dagosd2000]

What are your thoughts on Howard Cossell? You must have seen his broadcasts many times during the 1960s and 1970s.

I have a strongly negative view on Cossell as a ringside commentator. He was obnoxious and distracting. He knew little about boxing technicalities and history.

Cossell's baseless and hysterical views on the 1982 Holmes vs. Cobb fight irritated me. Contrary to what Cossell argued, there was never any justification for even thinking about stopping that fight.

Sure, Cobb was athletically and technically outclassed, and always losing by shutout on the scorecards. But the guy was never once hurt, stunned, buckled, or staggered. His stamina never flagged, and at all times he counterattacked as best he could, if inefficiently. Inevitably the bout was destined to go to the scorecards.

Cossell, IMO, was indulging his narcissism by insisting that Holmes-Cobb was some kind of barbaric, dangerous spectacle which showcased everything inhumane about the sport. Note that, in true drama queen fashion, Cossell picked this moment to announce his retirement from ringside. He probably did that to link his reputation with the then unfolding SJW uproar over the Mancini-Kim tragedy.

I never liked him either.He was a career driven opportunist who was going nowhere until he saw his meal ticket with Cassius Clay.He used to have a small column in the back pages of Sport Magazine.If you look at the replay when Clay beat Liston in Miami there's Cossell first in the ring swarming himself through the masses to get to Clay with microphone in hand and his .pathetic face drooling all over the new champ.

Cosell knew how to parlay his relationship with Ali and Ali went along for the ride.Whether it was Cossell chastising Ali for picking on Terrell or holding the Constitution in his hand defending Ali's stance on the draft it was about as sincere as Trump saying we're going to build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it.As long as it kept an audience from switching channels Cosell didn't mind playing the fool having Ali make fun of his toupee or his haughtiness.

And then before the Homes fight and Howard is so concerned about Ali getting hurt seriously and with the tears in his eyes and his humble tone. It was like a mother seeing her son go off to war.

Cosell was the epitome of egomania. When wrote his autobiography "I Never Played The Game" it was the only true statement he made.The rest of it was nothing but bum rapping everybody he was in the booth with and out. A total ingrate and phony.

Now ask me what I really think about him.

[Joson]

I never liked him either.He was a career driven opportunist who was going nowhere until he saw his meal ticket with Cassius Clay.He used to have a small column in the back pages of Sport Magazine.If you look at the replay when Clay beat Liston in Miami there's Cossell first in the ring swarming himself through the masses to get to Clay with microphone in hand and his .pathetic face drooling all over the new champ.

Cosell knew how to parlay his relationship with Ali and Ali went along for the ride.Whether it was Cossell chastising Ali for picking on Terrell or holding the Constitution in his hand defending Ali's stance on the draft it was about as sincere as Trump saying we're going to build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it.As long as it kept an audience from switching channels Cosell didn't mind playing the fool having Ali make fun of his toupee or his haughtiness.

And then before the Homes fight and Howard is so concerned about Ali getting hurt seriously and with the tears in his eyes and his humble tone. It was like a mother seeing her son go off to war.

Cosell was the epitome of egomania. When wrote his autobiography "I Never Played The Game" it was the only true statement he made.The rest of it was nothing but bum rapping everybody he was in the booth with and out. A total ingrate and phony.

Now ask me what I really think about him.

What about Cossell's outspokenness on the Holmes-Cobb fight? Do you agree with his argument that the match was so one-sided it should have been stopped to protect Cobb?

Again, I think Cossell really pushed the envelope regarding Cobb. And I'm not a Cobb fan either.

[Joson]

.Well, here's my guy-Aaron Pryor. Here was a non stop Henry Armstrong look alike that crumbled Antonio Cervantes and then Alexis Arguello twice, Pryor temporarily retired undefeated saying he needed a rest but the truth was he had a monkey on his back.He was in and out of rehab for over a year,and then he was back in the ring. But his opponents lacked the star power and the finesse,Pryor had ballooned up and acted logy though he still pushed forward. If you look at his Waterloo against Bobby Joe Young all that former greatness was just a memory.Think if he had retired for good after Arguello? He'd been undefeated with all but one of those wins being of the KO variety.

Yeah but Pryor unraveled. And he had Panama Lewis in his corner("Give me the bottle I mixed").And now boxing is morphing into these sideshows with ex champions with soft bellies and current heavyweight champions with spongy stomachs going through the wind and smoke of strobe lights and fireworks into a mania replacing a sport.

Aaron Pryor

What's your take on Pryor's fourth round stoppage of Antonio Cervantes in 1980? I was very surprised when it happened. That's because Cervantes had long been touted as a boxing's best and dominant fighters.

Another weird thing is that Cervantes - a world champion who usually fights in his home country of Venezeala - was willing to fight in the challenger's hometown of Cincinnati.

And then of course Cervantes rolled over and wiped out by Pryor. That's a far more decisive ending to the bout that anyone could have imagined. In retrospect, I'm wondering about something.

Maybe everyone involved in staging the bout knew something the public didn't? Could be Cervantes was in deep athletic decline, maybe losing his willpower to train, and his management team decided to cash out early before someone knocked him off?

I was surprised but after looking at the replay there wasn't any fix(if that's what you were implying).The way to go after a good boxer is to put pressure on him.Pryor was the best at that.Besides,when he cut Cervantes he quickly unraveled. Pryor proved it again against Arguello by putting the pressure on.. As far as Cervantes taking the fight in Cincy he had left the Colombia before.(DeJesus and Frazer in Panama,Gonzalez in LA,Kadota in Japan,Benitez in Puerto Rico,and Loche in Argentina).I think he was sure he could beat Pryor and that was another factor besides the money.

BTW:if a fighter is gonna' go in the tank he doesn't let the other guy kick the s--t out of him like Pryor did.

I never thought Cervantes tanked. Rather, I speculated that Cervantes had turned into another version of the 1975 Jose Napoles, a once-great champion so badly decayed that he's ripe to be KO'd by any contender.

I also speculated that Cervantes and his team realized he was hopelessly shot, and were staying in the game just to make one more good payday while getting KO'd.

But then again, maybe not...