old school fighters, bad defense?

jsmoke · Post by **jsmoke** » 31 Aug 2006, 14:08

ok i've been watching the espn classic fights and noticed a couple of things especially in these fights

graziano vs zale
robinson vs. basillio
basillio vs (someone else forgot the guy but he's white)

these guys just pummelled each other, and blocking was almost non existent. Am i the only one seeing this? Did the art of defense improved big time or was i just watching the wrong fights? i mean the graziano vs zale trilogy was horrible defensively (great fight to watch though)... can't believe these guys came out of the 3rd round with all the punches landed between the 2

jedijojo · Post by **jedijojo** » 31 Aug 2006, 14:53

jsmoke wrote:ok i've been watching the espn classic fights and noticed a couple of things especially in these fights

graziano vs zale
robinson vs. basillio
basillio vs (someone else forgot the guy but he's white)

these guys just pummelled each other, and blocking was almost non existent. Am i the only one seeing this? Did the art of defense improved big time or was i just watching the wrong fights? i mean the graziano vs zale trilogy was horrible defensively (great fight to watch though)... can't believe these guys came out of the 3rd round with all the punches landed between the 2

you watched the wrong fights... definitely

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 31 Aug 2006, 15:14

Basillo and Graziano were never considered very good defensive fighters, although both used their offense and pressure as their defense.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 31 Aug 2006, 22:49

Different eras. Guys back in the day rarely cliched so the tendancy was offensive minded. They also rolled punches pretty effectively.
Niccolino Locche, Willie Pep were defensive wizards. Duran's defense was his picture perfect head movement.

jsmoke · Post by **jsmoke** » 01 Sep 2006, 13:01

ok guys so what were all matches like the ones i saw. Other than the robinson fight (which i saw him get pummelled as wel) defense was laughable.

so are pre 70's boxers bad at defense?

if you watch a fight now, you'd be lucky to see more than 3 or 4 flush shots a round. Sometimes u never see one for like 3 rounds.

Which begs the question about greatest fighters of all time status....can an all time great like basillio or graziano stand up to the defenses now and stand up to the counters?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 01 Sep 2006, 13:19

No, not everyone's defense was bad. You just picked a handful of fighters. Graziano in particular was a horrible defensive fighter, but many of the older fighters were good defensive fighters. You could pick a few guys from any era (including the present time) and say they were bad defensive fighters.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 01 Sep 2006, 13:23

Decagon wrote:There was just as much clinching in the 1950s as there is today. Watch an old Ezzard Charles match.

Ha, watch Jack Dempsey and Tommy Gibbons instead. Punch, clinch, clinch, clinch, punch, clinch, repeat.

Where do people get the idea that there is more clinching these days? If anything, there is less compared to the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 01 Sep 2006, 13:24

jsmoke wrote:ok guys so what were all matches like the ones i saw. Other than the robinson fight (which i saw him get pummelled as wel) defense was laughable.

so are pre 70's boxers bad at defense?

if you watch a fight now, you'd be lucky to see more than 3 or 4 flush shots a round. Sometimes u never see one for like 3 rounds.

Which begs the question about greatest fighters of all time status....can an all time great like basillio or graziano stand up to the defenses now and stand up to the counters?

What fights are you watching? What is your definition of a flush shot? Does someone have to get wobbled for it to be your definition of flush? I don't see a difference offensively except maybe a little tweaking than in the 60s.

JC · Post by JC » 01 Sep 2006, 15:05

jsmoke wrote:ok i've been watching the espn classic fights and noticed a couple of things especially in these fights

graziano vs zale
robinson vs. basillio
basillio vs (someone else forgot the guy but he's white)

You definately watching the wrong fights you've picked out three slug fests there. You could just as easily pick

Gatti vs Ward
Castillo vs Corrales I
Trinidad vs Mayorga

As examples that modern fighters have no defense.

jsmoke · Post by **jsmoke** » 03 Sep 2006, 12:26

evndrbsn wrote:
jsmoke wrote:ok guys so what were all matches like the ones i saw. Other than the robinson fight (which i saw him get pummelled as wel) defense was laughable.

so are pre 70's boxers bad at defense?

if you watch a fight now, you'd be lucky to see more than 3 or 4 flush shots a round. Sometimes u never see one for like 3 rounds.

Which begs the question about greatest fighters of all time status....can an all time great like basillio or graziano stand up to the defenses now and stand up to the counters?
What fights are you watching? What is your definition of a flush shot? Does someone have to get wobbled for it to be your definition of flush? I don't see a difference offensively except maybe a little tweaking than in the 60s.

when i talk about flush shots, i'm not talking about wobble status, but i see soo many that grazes or partially blocked. I try to watch boxing as often as i could...

old school fighters, bad defense?

old school fighters, bad defense?

Re: old school fighters, bad defense?

Re: old school fighters, bad defense?