Heres how to respond to a vitali quitschko nuthugger

[silkov]

I don't think there is any point in replying -- Vitali-rage seems to be an infectuous, pathological condition.

I agree, some people just have a hard time accepting that America dont rule the Heavyweight world anymore.... VIVA RUSSIA!! HIP HIP HOORAY!!... 8)

Still better than not ruling ANY division
(and going out at the World Cup at the customary stage in customary style - quarterfinals on penalties...)

Yeah but England is only the size of Florida!.... I dont recall Florida causing any shockwaves in the world cup!!!. Actually to show I'm not a hater or anything like that I must say I was impressed by the American team in the world cup , they showed a lot of energy :x and desire. .. ok they often seemed confused over whether they were playing footie , Rugby :P or WWF wreastling :x :x :x , but you're still all learning over there so I'm not holding it against you!... 8)

[silkov]

I agree, some people just have a hard time accepting that America dont rule the Heavyweight world anymore.... VIVA RUSSIA!! HIP HIP HOORAY!!... 8)

I don’t think many have any problem with Russians, British, French, Persians or any other nationality holding the HW title. The issue is with how VK supporters are blind to the fact that he NEVER ruled the HW division. He was a top 10 HW, and had a good career, but Lewis was the best HW in the world during his career, and VK got TKO’d by an old LL in a very sloppy fight. Besides that loss and the Byrd loss, he had a pretty weak resume.

His win over the less than dedicated Kirk Johnson is about the only win he had over someone who MIGHT be considered a world class HW. That’s hardly enough to warrant his inclusion as an ATG. If you see much else in his resume, please feel free to mention it, but it’s gonna be pretty hard to justify any of his other victories as very substantial. Bean and Donald were pretty good, but pretty hard to justify as top opponents. Ernie Els, err, I mean Sanders was about 40 and flabby in their fight. Anything else? Come on, put some effort into this, besides a few simple insults.

Fact is when Lewis retired Vitali was the best heavyweight in the world, its a shame that he wasnt able to fight on and build a better record and I'm sure that he could have stayed at the top for a fair amount of time had he remained injury free... he was the best of what is besically a very poor bunch... but to try and kncok him down by calling him a quitter is just plain stupid... especially if you've seen the Lewis fight. As for the Byrd fight I would never criticise anyone for pulling out of a fight with a dislocated shoulder... those who do should try fighting someone themselves with one arm... my bet is that they havent even done it with two.

[The Great John L]

Fact is when Lewis retired Vitali was the best heavyweight in the world, its a shame that he wasnt able to fight on and build a better record and I'm sure that he could have stayed at the top for a fair amount of time had he remained injury free... he was the best of what is besically a very poor bunch... but to try and kncok him down by calling him a quitter is just plain stupid... especially if you've seen the Lewis fight. As for the Byrd fight I would never criticise anyone for pulling out of a fight with a dislocated shoulder... those who do should try fighting someone themselves with one arm... my bet is that they havent even done it with two.

Your reply is a perfect example of why so many are quick to jump on VK. You completely ignored my questions regarding his ACCOMPLISHMENTS and jumped to the defenseless statement - “Fact is when Lewis retired Vitali was the best heavyweight in the world”. How do you justify that statement as fact? Please reread my previous post, which I don’t think was an attack of any kind on Vitali, but was an explanation of why so many are frustrated with the Vitali supporters. I didn’t criticize him for the Byrd fight. In fact I didn’t even mention it because I want a discussion of VK’s wins during his career that would indicate that he could ever be considered the best HW in the world. What WINS did he have on his resume? Where are the big wins that distinguished VK as the best HW in the world? If he had a few really good wins then the losses to Byrd and Lewis would mean something a bit more than just the competitive loses that they were.

You seem no better than every other Vitali supporter because all you can say is that he COULD have accomplished a lot if he had been able to continue his career. OK, maybe he could have, but he didn’t. He never proved that he was the best HW, so please don’t say that he was. After Lewis retired he had no more claim to being the best HW than any number of other HWs.

[Cojimar 1945]

Klitschko never proved himself the best in the division. He did not fight the guys he would have needed to fight to establish this.

[silkov]

Fact is when Lewis retired Vitali was the best heavyweight in the world, its a shame that he wasnt able to fight on and build a better record and I'm sure that he could have stayed at the top for a fair amount of time had he remained injury free... he was the best of what is besically a very poor bunch... but to try and kncok him down by calling him a quitter is just plain stupid... especially if you've seen the Lewis fight. As for the Byrd fight I would never criticise anyone for pulling out of a fight with a dislocated shoulder... those who do should try fighting someone themselves with one arm... my bet is that they havent even done it with two.

Your reply is a perfect example of why so many are quick to jump on VK. You completely ignored my questions regarding his ACCOMPLISHMENTS and jumped to the defenseless statement - “Fact is when Lewis retired Vitali was the best heavyweight in the world”. How do you justify that statement as fact? Please reread my previous post, which I don’t think was an attack of any kind on Vitali, but was an explanation of why so many are frustrated with the Vitali supporters. I didn’t criticize him for the Byrd fight. In fact I didn’t even mention it because I want a discussion of VK’s wins during his career that would indicate that he could ever be considered the best HW in the world. What WINS did he have on his resume? Where are the big wins that distinguished VK as the best HW in the world? If he had a few really good wins then the losses to Byrd and Lewis would mean something a bit more than just the competitive loses that they were.

You seem no better than every other Vitali supporter because all you can say is that he COULD have accomplished a lot if he had been able to continue his career. OK, maybe he could have, but he didn’t. He never proved that he was the best HW, so please don’t say that he was. After Lewis retired he had no more claim to being the best HW than any number of other HWs.

Well tell me who had a better argument for being the best heavyweight then?.... Rahman??? Byrd??? Ruiz???... don't make me laugh!... you only needed to see him fight to see that he was superior to the other heavies out there. I dont really get your point, I agree that Vitalis record suffers because of his early retirement but does that justify the insults and outright hatred of closed minded people like you?... no I think not!. If Vitali had been born in America you would be on here bleating about what a loss he is to the sport... which indeed he is...

[silkov]

I never once ranked Klitschko #1 in the division. I think it's stupid that anyone ever did.

So who did you rate at number one then pray tell???.... please enlighten us with your superior intellect...

[pundit]

Klitschko never proved himself the best in the division. He did not fight the guys he would have needed to fight to establish this.

Hmmm..... there was noone close to Lennox Lewis' level for years, and then Vitali wins four out of six rounds against him, rocks him a couple of times, and can't finish the job only because of cuts (and being stopped on cuts is always unfortunate).

For me there is no doubt Vitali was the #1 after Lennox' retirement....

P

[silkov]

Klitschko never proved himself the best in the division. He did not fight the guys he would have needed to fight to establish this.

Hmmm..... there was noone close to Lennox Lewis' level for years, and then Vitali wins four out of six rounds against him, rocks him a couple of times, and can't finish the job only because of cuts (and being stopped on cuts is always unfortunate).

For me there is no doubt Vitali was the #1 after Lennox' retirement....

P

Ofcourse he was, what happened to judging a fighter by his ability and performances rather than where he comes from? ...glad to see theres someone else on this thread with a balanced opinion and open mind... ...in fact if you take away Vitali's injury caused defeats then he was unbeaten during his career... someone should tell Brock that Marcinao would'nt have stayed unbeaten had he boxed in more recent times... he certainly would have been stopped in his 2nd fight with Charles... (and should have been too) would that have made him a quitter???... obviously so as judging by Brocks logic if you are stopped on an injury in a fight then you're a quitter.....

[silkov]

I don't see anyone criticising Marciano for retiring when he did, even though there was plenty of interesting fights coming up?... oh he had a bad back!!! ohhh his nose hurt!!!... yeh sure!... maybe he was scared of fighting Floyd Patterson or some of the others coming up?!!. Hell he even backed out of a comeback fight with Ingmar for christs sake!!... :x :x

[silkov]

I never once ranked Klitschko #1 in the division. I think it's stupid that anyone ever did.

So who did you rate at number one then pray tell???.... please enlighten us with your superior intellect...

Byrd, up until he drew with Golota and Ruiz knocked out Oquendo. Then Ruiz. Neither of them had an 0-2 record against top-10 heavyweights.

Byrd who Vitali would have beaten had he not picked up his shoulder injury!... yeah right mate!... as for Ruiz I hope you're joking, ...Vitali would have made short work of Ruiz if Ruiz had ever dared fight him...

[The Great John L]

Well tell me who had a better argument for being the best heavyweight then?.... Rahman??? Byrd??? Ruiz???... don't make me laugh!... you only needed to see him fight to see that he was superior to the other heavies out there. I dont really get your point, I agree that Vitalis record suffers because of his early retirement but does that justify the insults and outright hatred of closed minded people like you?... no I think not!. If Vitali had been born in America you would be on here bleating about what a loss he is to the sport... which indeed he is...

You’re totally incapable of being objective about this issue. Please explain where this comment came from?

“If Vitali had been born in America you would be on here bleating about what a loss he is to the sport... which indeed he is...”

What do you base this comment on? And this statement clearly indicates how clueless and clouded you are on this topic as well.

Well tell me who had a better argument for being the best heavyweight then?.... Rahman??? Byrd??? Ruiz???... don't make me laugh!

If you could actually read a post rather than become emotional, you would know that I didn’t think that ANY of them could be considered the best HW after Lewis retired. Certainly Byrd and Ruiz had more accomplishments than VK, but I don’t think there has been a “best HW in the world” since LL retired, because nobody earned that distinction in the ring. And we all aren’t arrogant enough to make statements like this.

you only needed to see him fight to see that he was superior to the other heavies out there

Did you ever stop to think that maybe you aren’t the greatest judge of boxing talent the world has ever seen? I and many others didn’t quite see what you did in VK. And even if I did think he was the most talented, if he didn’t prove it by beating the best, it doesn’t mean anything. Or is your opinion on baxing more important than what actually happens in the ring?

And why are you so narrow minded to think that since I am from the US I am somehow biased against non-US fighters? Lewis was clearly the best HW during his reign, and I think he was better than Tyson and Holyfield as well. And Lewis wasn’t from the US.

You don’t get my point because you get too emotional when discussing Vitali. Why, I have no idea.

[The Great John L]

Byrd who Vitali would have beaten had he not picked up his shoulder injury!... yeah right mate!... as for Ruiz I hope you're joking, ...Vitali would have made short work of Ruiz if Ruiz had ever dared fight him...

silkov, try re-reading this last post and then return to Brocky's original post. You're making this thread look legitimate with statements like that.

[silkov]

If me saying that Vitali wasnt a quitter and that he was the best in the world for a time after Lewis retired makes me a nutthugger then so be it... I really dont give a damn... and its quite amusing that such a post is written by Brock who is the biggest nutthugger of Marcinao in this solar system of ours!... but then Rocky is ok isnt he, ...so hug away Brock!... 8)

[pundit]

I never once ranked Klitschko #1 in the division. I think it's stupid that anyone ever did.

So who did you rate at number one then pray tell???.... please enlighten us with your superior intellect...

Byrd, up until he drew with Golota and Ruiz knocked out Oquendo. Then Ruiz. Neither of them had an 0-2 record against top-10 heavyweights.

You have to throw any remote hint of boxing knowledge out of the window if you make Vitali's "0-2 record against top-10 heavyweights" the basis of your assessment (but exactly this seems to happen when people discuss Vitali).

To put it differently: rating Chris "the fluke" Byrd above Vitali at ANY time of their careers is like, say, rating ballboy Jimmy Bimbam above Roger Federer because Jimmy helped Roger warming up, they exchanged a few balls, and Jimmy allegedly made 4 points, Roger 3.

[silkov]

Byrd who Vitali would have beaten had he not picked up his shoulder injury!... yeah right mate!...

Well, if Quitali hadn't missed Byrd so much, he wouldn't have injured it in the first place. It wasn't a freak injury. Evander Holyfield and Davaryll Williamson had nearly the exact same injuries against Byrd. Missing all night, while landing a few punches on the gloves and elbows, isn't very good for the body. Quitali didn't have to give up. After the fight, were they rushing to give him medical attention? NO! There's no evidence that his injury was even as bad as the ones Williamson and Holyfield had.

as for Ruiz I hope you're joking, ...Vitali would have made short work of Ruiz if Ruiz had ever dared fight him...

What are you talking about? Ruiz maybe as boring as shit, but he took on everyone he possibly could. He was the one calling out Quitali. Quitali was the one... quitting. Here's who Ruiz fought:

• Holyfield (three times)
• Roy Jones
• James Toney
• Andrew Golota
• Kirk Johnson
• Hasim Rahman
• Fres Oquendo
• Nicolai Valuev (in Germany, with Don King holding options on Valuev!)

Here's who Quitali fought:

• Byrd, who took the fight on 10 days' notice
• Lewis, who took the fight on 14 days' notice
• Corrie Sanders (38-year-old golfer with a lucky swing)
• Kirk Johnson (after Ruiz had already exposed him)

What great opposition is that? You're talking about Ruiz ducking Quitali? Quitali didn't fight ANYONE! He was the one running from Ruiz, and nearly every other decent boxer out there. Why the hell was he fighting Johnson in the first place? Why not the man who beat him, Ruiz? And Danny Williams? That's a "gimme" defense if I've ever seen one.

I wouldnt expect anymore from you I'm afraid!. And when did Vitali quit?.... was it with the torn rotator cuff or the severely lacerated eye??... since when is being pulled out of a fight with an injury 'quitting?' have you tried fighting with a torn rotator cuff?.... have you even tried fighting?... I very much doubt it somehow because your views carry all the ignorance of an armchair warrior....

[pundit]

Byrd who Vitali would have beaten had he not picked up his shoulder injury!... yeah right mate!...

Well, if Quitali hadn't missed Byrd so much, he wouldn't have injured it in the first place. It wasn't a freak injury. Evander Holyfield and Davaryll Williamson had nearly the exact same injuries against Byrd. Missing all night, while landing a few punches on the gloves and elbows, isn't very good for the body. Quitali didn't have to give up. After the fight, were they rushing to give him medical attention? NO! There's no evidence that his injury was even as bad as the ones Williamson and Holyfield had.

as for Ruiz I hope you're joking, ...Vitali would have made short work of Ruiz if Ruiz had ever dared fight him...

What are you talking about? Ruiz maybe as boring as shit, but he took on everyone he possibly could. He was the one calling out Quitali. Quitali was the one... quitting. Here's who Ruiz fought:

• Holyfield (three times)
• Roy Jones
• James Toney
• Andrew Golota
• Kirk Johnson
• Hasim Rahman
• Fres Oquendo
• Nicolai Valuev (in Germany, with Don King holding options on Valuev!)

Here's who Quitali fought:

• Byrd, who took the fight on 10 days' notice
• Lewis, who took the fight on 14 days' notice
• Corrie Sanders (38-year-old golfer with a lucky swing)
• Kirk Johnson (after Ruiz had already exposed him)

What great opposition is that? You're talking about Ruiz ducking Quitali? Quitali didn't fight ANYONE! He was the one running from Ruiz, and nearly every other decent boxer out there. Why the hell was he fighting Johnson in the first place? Why not the man who beat him, Ruiz? And Danny Williams? That's a "gimme" defense if I've ever seen one.

Vitali's 6 rounds with Lewis are 10 times more impressive than everything Ruiz has ever attempted in his entire career.

[Seamus]

I wouldn't even consider myself a Vitali Klitschko fan, and pfp I can't rate him too highly, but at this point I think it's time to point out the very obvious by looking at some VK's opponents.

Herbie Hide. Still a fast hard hitting fighter who's only loss was to Riddick Bowe, when he met Vitali in 99. VK destroyed him in 2 rounds.

Ross Puritty. Iron jawed club fighter who after a pair of stoppages early in his career, went the distance with Tommy Morrison, Rahman, Grant, Corrie Sanders and even stopped Wlad. VK pounded him into submission in 11 rds. Puritty may have retired, but he was not stopped in his 6 remaining fights.

Vaughn Bean. 51 career fights including bouts with Moorer, Holyfield, Tony Thompson and Dimitrenko. The only one to stop him was Vitali.

Larry Donald. Never exciting, but still a good boxer. Fought Riddick Bowe, Kirk Johnson, Ray Austin and Valuev. The only one to stop him was Vitali.

Kirk Johnson. Very skilled fighter, who seldom get's in shape. Still Vitali did to him in 2 rounds, what no one else has in his other 39 fights.

You can sum up Vitali's career like this 3 out of his 37 opponents went the distance. He won practically every round in his one decision victory, and led on all score cards in the two losses. And he took, tremendous shots from two of the divisions biggest punchers in Lewis and Sanders without making a trip to the canvas.

Is he an all time great ? No ! Did he do pretty damn good against the 37 guys he fought ? Absolutely !

[Ambling Alp]

Klitschko could have fought Byrd again,Rahman,Ruiz,Brewster,Toney or Tua. All of these guys were better than anyone he ever did beat.
If he would have beat 2 or 3 three of these guys he would be more highly regarded than he is.

He may very well have beaten these guys; but the bottom line is that he didn't. They aren't all time greats but they were the best guys available; and Klitschko didn't fight them.

[pundit]

Klitschko could have fought Byrd again,Rahman,Ruiz,Brewster,Toney or Tua. All of these guys were better than anyone he ever did beat.
If he would have beat 2 or 3 three of these guys he would be more highly regarded than he is.

He may very well have beaten these guys; but the bottom line is that he didn't. They aren't all time greats but they were the best guys available; and Klitschko didn't fight them.

Well, most of the time they had the titles and Vitali was the one not getting a shot.

[Ambling Alp]

You might be able to make a case that Ruiz or Byrd ducked him, but Tua and Toney never had a belt, and Brewster and Rahman never had it for long.

It just seems far fetched that all of these guys were ducking Klitscko. Surely over the span of several years, (from about 1998-2004) Klitschko could have fought some of these guys.

[pound per pound]

I wouldn't even consider myself a Vitali Klitschko fan, and pfp I can't rate him too highly, but at this point I think it's time to point out the very obvious by looking at some VK's opponents.

Herbie Hide. Still a fast hard hitting fighter who's only loss was to Riddick Bowe, when he met Vitali in 99. VK destroyed him in 2 rounds.

Ross Puritty. Iron jawed club fighter who after a pair of stoppages early in his career, went the distance with Tommy Morrison, Rahman, Grant, Corrie Sanders and even stopped Wlad. VK pounded him into submission in 11 rds. Puritty may have retired, but he was not stopped in his 6 remaining fights.

Vaughn Bean. 51 career fights including bouts with Moorer, Holyfield, Tony Thompson and Dimitrenko. The only one to stop him was Vitali.

Larry Donald. Never exciting, but still a good boxer. Fought Riddick Bowe, Kirk Johnson, Ray Austin and Valuev. The only one to stop him was Vitali.

Kirk Johnson. Very skilled fighter, who seldom get's in shape. Still Vitali did to him in 2 rounds, what no one else has in his other 39 fights.

You can sum up Vitali's career like this 3 out of his 37 opponents went the distance. He won practically every round in his one decision victory, and led on all score cards in the two losses. And he took, tremendous shots from two of the divisions biggest punchers in Lewis and Sanders without making a trip to the canvas.

Is he an all time great ? No ! Did he do pretty damn good against the 37 guys he fought ? Absolutely !

Intersting way to look at it. Vitai would have beaten Byrd if not for the injury. I think most people agree. Vitali was ahead on points vs a tired Lewis before the ring doctor in his corner halted the fight on cuts.

Vitali needed re-matches vas Byrd and Lewis. Bad breaks cost him in the fights he was winning.

[pundit]

Klitschko could have fought Byrd again,Rahman,Ruiz,Brewster,Toney or Tua. All of these guys were better than anyone he ever did beat.
If he would have beat 2 or 3 three of these guys he would be more highly regarded than he is.

He may very well have beaten these guys; but the bottom line is that he didn't. They aren't all time greats but they were the best guys available; and Klitschko didn't fight them.

Well, most of the time they had the titles and Vitali was the one not getting a shot.

All three of the opposing titlists were calling out Bitchko at various times, although Byrd eventually chickened out.

Simply put, you're lying. You're full of shit.

Simply put, you're losing it again.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

vitalis 6 rounds with lennox?? whats so impressive about that?


vitali fought a 38 year old past his prime overweight(257lb) way out of shape slower rusty lennox lewis who looked horrible on film that night.....yet he STILL BEAT VITALI.


frank bruno outboxed a prime lennox for 7 rounds...he should get more credit than vitali does.


hasim rahman knocked out a overconfidet lennox lewis, who was faster and sharper than the lennox in the vitali fight.



lennox in 2003 was ready to be taken he was very vunerable......but vitali couldnt beat lennox which shows u his lack of greatness. hasim rahman took on a vunerable lennox but the difference is rahman knocked out lennox.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

silky trying to degrade a ATG like rocky marciano(on his birthday i might add) is not going to help boost vitali any better. marciano was a boxing legend, vitali is a what if. marciano had more heart in his pinky finger than vitali quitschko did in his whole body.



vitalis best wins:



39 year old way out of shape fat corrie sanders who was literally hyperventalting after 2 rounds.....



25lb overweight fat kirk johnson who looked disgustingly obese.




what in shape top contenders did vitali ever beat?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Klitschko never proved himself the best in the division. He did not fight the guys he would have needed to fight to establish this.

Hmmm..... there was noone close to Lennox Lewis' level for years, and then Vitali wins four out of six rounds against him, rocks him a couple of times, and can't finish the job only because of cuts (and being stopped on cuts is always unfortunate).

For me there is no doubt Vitali was the #1 after Lennox' retirement....

P

cant finish the job? more like lennox was starting to get to vitali and vitali was going to quit in the late rounds again