Should PED's be allowed in boxing, if so why?

[Controversial]

Something that seems to divide opinion, personally I don't think performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) should be allowed however some people give reasons why they should. I'm no expert on the subject but from what I've read there are PEDs that are untraceable and done properly you won't get caught. So if testing is only catching the odd fighter then are they just fighting a losing battle enforcing it?

Larry Olubamiwo made some valid points in his defence of PEDs, his opinion is allow PEDs that the body produces anyway. What's the difference between complete mismatches where one fighter sparks a journeyman in seconds aren't those mismatches more dangerous? He also made reference to research allegedly showing that PEDs could help protect the brain.

Thoughts?

[polecateddy]

I don’t want to ramble on, but the issues are the long term damage, you’d basically be getting boxers starting on by-weekly injections of testosterone, etc as a senior amateur at 18 or whatever, and carrying on into their mid-30’s potentially. That’s probably a longer span of heavy abuse than the average professional bodybuilder, and they drop like flies in their middle age. Drugs completely screw up your natural hormone production and in many cases change the actual structure of your major organs, accelerate the growth of cancers, a lot of negatives! And then add in weight loss orientated drugs, dehydrating agents etc. high dosing EPO for improved blood oxygen. It’s all pretty hazardous stuff!

[Controversial]

I don’t want to ramble on, but the issues are the long term damage, you’d basically be getting boxers starting on by-weekly injections of testosterone, etc as a senior amateur at 18 or whatever, and carrying on into their mid-30’s potentially. That’s probably a longer span of heavy abuse than the average professional bodybuilder, and they drop like flies in their middle age. Drugs completely screw up your natural hormone production and in many cases change the actual structure of your major organs, accelerate the growth of cancers, a lot of negatives! And then add in weight loss orientated drugs, dehydrating agents etc. high dosing EPO for improved blood oxygen. It’s all pretty hazardous stuff!

But aren’t they allowed in bodybuilding? I guess if the actual drug isn’t illegal then it’s a choice whether you want to take it?

[polecateddy]

I don’t want to ramble on, but the issues are the long term damage, you’d basically be getting boxers starting on by-weekly injections of testosterone, etc as a senior amateur at 18 or whatever, and carrying on into their mid-30’s potentially. That’s probably a longer span of heavy abuse than the average professional bodybuilder, and they drop like flies in their middle age. Drugs completely screw up your natural hormone production and in many cases change the actual structure of your major organs, accelerate the growth of cancers, a lot of negatives! And then add in weight loss orientated drugs, dehydrating agents etc. high dosing EPO for improved blood oxygen. It’s all pretty hazardous stuff!

But aren’t they allowed in bodybuilding? I guess if the actual drug isn’t illegal then it’s a choice whether you want to take it?

They don’t explicitly say it’s allowed but it’s implied. There’s a human impossibility to get to their mass monster size without a lot of testosterone based steroids and growth hormone. A lot of the drugs may possibly be under prescription in America. A lot will still be illegal too. In the UK, pretty much everything you’d want to take is totally illegal. I think it’s very unlikely that boxing would ever get rid of doping controls. Even the UFC had to toe the line to go mainstream. A sport totally rife with steroid use is Brazilian JuJitsu at all levels. Which kind of suggests that most mma fighters are secretly on stuff usually.

[leejonesjnr]

I don’t want to ramble on, but the issues are the long term damage, you’d basically be getting boxers starting on by-weekly injections of testosterone, etc as a senior amateur at 18 or whatever, and carrying on into their mid-30’s potentially. That’s probably a longer span of heavy abuse than the average professional bodybuilder, and they drop like flies in their middle age. Drugs completely screw up your natural hormone production and in many cases change the actual structure of your major organs, accelerate the growth of cancers, a lot of negatives! And then add in weight loss orientated drugs, dehydrating agents etc. high dosing EPO for improved blood oxygen. It’s all pretty hazardous stuff!

But aren’t they allowed in bodybuilding? I guess if the actual drug isn’t illegal then it’s a choice whether you want to take it?

Someone being bigger, leaner or more symmetrical than they would otherwise be doesn’t risk killing the other competitors.
There are ‘natural’ body building categories, natural and enhanced boxing divisions wouldn’t be workable.

[TheLeprechaun]

Yes because they are always going to be used by 99% of fighters anyway.

[Controversial]

I don’t want to ramble on, but the issues are the long term damage, you’d basically be getting boxers starting on by-weekly injections of testosterone, etc as a senior amateur at 18 or whatever, and carrying on into their mid-30’s potentially. That’s probably a longer span of heavy abuse than the average professional bodybuilder, and they drop like flies in their middle age. Drugs completely screw up your natural hormone production and in many cases change the actual structure of your major organs, accelerate the growth of cancers, a lot of negatives! And then add in weight loss orientated drugs, dehydrating agents etc. high dosing EPO for improved blood oxygen. It’s all pretty hazardous stuff!

But aren’t they allowed in bodybuilding? I guess if the actual drug isn’t illegal then it’s a choice whether you want to take it?

Someone being bigger, leaner or more symmetrical than they would otherwise be doesn’t risk killing the other competitors.
There are ‘natural’ body building categories, natural and enhanced boxing divisions wouldn’t be workable.

Sure I get that, Larry O covers this point in that podcast though, he allegedly sought legal advice and was told it would be impossible to prove PEDS were the cause of a death as by definition the sport is potentially lethal. There are have been many deaths not linked to PEDS caused be caused by a multitude of things, being weight drained, damage in sparring, accumulation of head trauma from previous fights, birth defect etc.. which when you think about it makes sense.

[Controversial]

I don’t want to ramble on, but the issues are the long term damage, you’d basically be getting boxers starting on by-weekly injections of testosterone, etc as a senior amateur at 18 or whatever, and carrying on into their mid-30’s potentially. That’s probably a longer span of heavy abuse than the average professional bodybuilder, and they drop like flies in their middle age. Drugs completely screw up your natural hormone production and in many cases change the actual structure of your major organs, accelerate the growth of cancers, a lot of negatives! And then add in weight loss orientated drugs, dehydrating agents etc. high dosing EPO for improved blood oxygen. It’s all pretty hazardous stuff!

But aren’t they allowed in bodybuilding? I guess if the actual drug isn’t illegal then it’s a choice whether you want to take it?

They don’t explicitly say it’s allowed but it’s implied. There’s a human impossibility to get to their mass monster size without a lot of testosterone based steroids and growth hormone. A lot of the drugs may possibly be under prescription in America. A lot will still be illegal too. In the UK, pretty much everything you’d want to take is totally illegal. I think it’s very unlikely that boxing would ever get rid of doping controls. Even the UFC had to toe the line to go mainstream. A sport totally rife with steroid use is Brazilian JuJitsu at all levels. Which kind of suggests that most mma fighters are secretly on stuff usually.

But in terms of taking things the body produces naturally they aren't illegal are they? Your last sentence says it all though really, people are on this stuff and likely will never get caught which makes a mockery of the whole testing routine.

[polecateddy]

I think the doping controls create limits to what people can get away with. Without controls some idiots would be ramping their testosterone through the roof. Pretty much all steroids are testosterone derivatives …human growth hormone, EPO, etc are all found in the body naturally. That point is moot.

[jwfg]

100% no. This isn't which guy runs the 100 meters faster. This is irreparable brain damage.

[Glass Joe]

100% no. This isn't which guy runs the 100 meters faster. This is irreparable brain damage.

i would say 99% of damage is done in gym. it was in the Pride fighter's contract they wouldnt get tested and i dont think there was a injury in pride.

[Controversial]

100% no. This isn't which guy runs the 100 meters faster. This is irreparable brain damage.

i would say 99% of damage is done in gym. it was in the Pride fighter's contract they wouldnt get tested and i dont think there was a injury in pride.

That was kind of the point Larry made, it’s impossible to know. Wilder punches harder than most so would his punch be less damaging than a non puncher taking PEDS?

[jwfg]

100% no. This isn't which guy runs the 100 meters faster. This is irreparable brain damage.

i would say 99% of damage is done in gym. it was in the Pride fighter's contract they wouldnt get tested and i dont think there was a injury in pride.

This isn't pride, this is boxing. Ask any former boxer this one simple question.........

Do you wish that all your opponents were on PEDs and had given you more brain damage than you already have?

[polecateddy]

100% no. This isn't which guy runs the 100 meters faster. This is irreparable brain damage.

i would say 99% of damage is done in gym. it was in the Pride fighter's contract they wouldnt get tested and i dont think there was a injury in pride.

This isn't pride, this is boxing. Ask any former boxer this one simple question.........

Do you wish that all your opponents were on PEDs and had given you more brain damage than you already have?

That’s a fair point. I think it’s a genuine hypothesis that PEDs have over the years turned Conor Benn into a puncher. The muscles grow bigger and stronger, and at a slower rate the tendons catch up. The physical elites often can get the most benefit.

[Controversial]

In terms of damage you could argue that being knocked out quick is better than taking numerous blows to the head in hard fights.

[margaret thatcher]

peds should be allowed, but only for the fighters i like

anyone else who uses them is a dirty shameful cheat

[tonyevs]

Yes allow them all to fill their boots on all and everything.

That way it enables even those without a big promoter or deep pockets to get the advantages too.

Just provide the information of possible side effects, and let them decide if they feel its worth it.

Those that say it will damage their health are kinda overlooking the fact that getting punched in the head is well known to cause chronic traumatic brain encephalopathy anyway. Yet kids still get encouraged by their parents to box .. adults take part in SlapFight.

So if some people want to - crack on I say.

[MasterG]

Being a parent who kid was hooked on Peds and seen the effects I'm going to give an honest opinion.

When you reach the age of 18 you are an adult.

If any sports person takes any banned substance they should be banned, period.

Take what you like but remember if caught you get banned.

Regardless of the effects on a person mentally and I've fcuking been there calling any hotline available because someone is sat on a bridge ready to jump, it's a waste of time telling any sports person not to take any enhancement performance drug because they will if told to. In professional sport every top sports personality has a dietary person who formulates food. The trainer's will find alternative ways to enhance performance.

I say, if performance drugs are banned they are banned regardless of excuses such as eggs for eff sake. If caught ban the effers.

Every sport has scientists who are employed to try to hide cheats, that's a damn fact.

[big lennox]

Being a parent who kid was hooked on Peds and seen the effects I'm going to give an honest opinion.

When you reach the age of 18 you are an adult.

If any sports person takes any banned substance they should be banned, period.

Take what you like but remember if caught you get banned.

Regardless of the effects on a person mentally and I've fcuking been there calling any hotline available because someone is sat on a bridge ready to jump, it's a waste of time telling any sports person not to take any enhancement performance drug because they will if told to. In professional sport every top sports personality has a dietary person who formulates food. The trainer's will find alternative ways to enhance performance.

I say, if performance drugs are banned they are banned regardless of excuses such as eggs for eff sake. If caught ban the effers.

Every sport has scientists who are employed to try to hide cheats, that's a damn fact.

Really sorry that you had to go through that. I hope your kid has come out the other side and turned their back on PEDs.

[leejonesjnr]

But aren’t they allowed in bodybuilding? I guess if the actual drug isn’t illegal then it’s a choice whether you want to take it?

Someone being bigger, leaner or more symmetrical than they would otherwise be doesn’t risk killing the other competitors.
There are ‘natural’ body building categories, natural and enhanced boxing divisions wouldn’t be workable.

Sure I get that, Larry O covers this point in that podcast though, he allegedly sought legal advice and was told it would be impossible to prove PEDS were the cause of a death as by definition the sport is potentially lethal. There are have been many deaths not linked to PEDS caused be caused by a multitude of things, being weight drained, damage in sparring, accumulation of head trauma from previous fights, birth defect etc.. which when you think about it makes sense.

I’ve already replied to this and it was deleted for some reason.
Larry saying that legally you are unlikely to be prosecuted doesn’t make it ok. Because a man is articulate doesn’t make it okay to cheat, regardless how erudite a man may be, cheating is cheating and avoiding prosecution for causing permanent damage or death doesn’t mean you did nothing wrong.
Equally, because other factors cause damage doesn’t mean it’s okay to add to the list.
Proper boxing should remain proper and anyone wanting freak show boxing with whatever drug cocktail a person is willing to take should start a misfits style league.

[Teddy's Toupee]

Proper boxing should remain proper and anyone wanting freak show boxing with whatever drug cocktail a person is willing to take should start a misfits style league.

Or just watch Tommy and Tyson.

[MasterG]

Being a parent who kid was hooked on Peds and seen the effects I'm going to give an honest opinion.

When you reach the age of 18 you are an adult.

If any sports person takes any banned substance they should be banned, period.

Take what you like but remember if caught you get banned.

Regardless of the effects on a person mentally and I've fcuking been there calling any hotline available because someone is sat on a bridge ready to jump, it's a waste of time telling any sports person not to take any enhancement performance drug because they will if told to. In professional sport every top sports personality has a dietary person who formulates food. The trainer's will find alternative ways to enhance performance.

I say, if performance drugs are banned they are banned regardless of excuses such as eggs for eff sake. If caught ban the effers.

Every sport has scientists who are employed to try to hide cheats, that's a damn fact.

Really sorry that you had to go through that. I hope your kid has come out the other side and turned their back on PEDs.

It was hard mate, not going to deny it. It was touch and go towards the end. Luckily with professional help made it through but not going to deny it was really hard on us all.

Like I say after the age of 18 take what you want. If professional sportsman you know the score.

[big lennox]

Being a parent who kid was hooked on Peds and seen the effects I'm going to give an honest opinion.

When you reach the age of 18 you are an adult.

If any sports person takes any banned substance they should be banned, period.

Take what you like but remember if caught you get banned.

Regardless of the effects on a person mentally and I've fcuking been there calling any hotline available because someone is sat on a bridge ready to jump, it's a waste of time telling any sports person not to take any enhancement performance drug because they will if told to. In professional sport every top sports personality has a dietary person who formulates food. The trainer's will find alternative ways to enhance performance.

I say, if performance drugs are banned they are banned regardless of excuses such as eggs for eff sake. If caught ban the effers.

Every sport has scientists who are employed to try to hide cheats, that's a damn fact.

Really sorry that you had to go through that. I hope your kid has come out the other side and turned their back on PEDs.

It was hard mate, not going to deny it. It was touch and go towards the end. Luckily with professional help made it through but not going to deny it was really hard on us all.

Like I say after the age of 18 take what you want. If professional sportsman you know the score.

I bet. Must have been terrifying and exhausting for you all, but that's a great outcome!

[GreenLightning]

I don’t want to ramble on, but the issues are the long term damage, you’d basically be getting boxers starting on by-weekly injections of testosterone, etc as a senior amateur at 18 or whatever, and carrying on into their mid-30’s potentially. That’s probably a longer span of heavy abuse than the average professional bodybuilder, and they drop like flies in their middle age. Drugs completely screw up your natural hormone production and in many cases change the actual structure of your major organs, accelerate the growth of cancers, a lot of negatives! And then add in weight loss orientated drugs, dehydrating agents etc. high dosing EPO for improved blood oxygen. It’s all pretty hazardous stuff!

But aren’t they allowed in bodybuilding? I guess if the actual drug isn’t illegal then it’s a choice whether you want to take it?

The difference is you consent to a fight where I expect the other guy to be in good shape, but not pumped with industrial shi!te, I , you, or a family member , could get seriously injured or killed, we already expect a level of brutality out of boxing, it's a juxtoposition at the best of times as we jump up for a knockout but then quickly remember there's a human being whos lying unconscious( and hopefully that's the worst) for it, it's always been a corrupt sport open to exploitation, even at its "purest" form of can be utterly savage (an overused word now but apt when people's heads are hitting the floor)how do we fix all the holes in this ship, I couldn't begin to tell you, but if we're going to just have a complete free for all then I say good luck and I probably opt out

[GreenLightning]

Being a parent who kid was hooked on Peds and seen the effects I'm going to give an honest opinion.

When you reach the age of 18 you are an adult.

If any sports person takes any banned substance they should be banned, period.

Take what you like but remember if caught you get banned.

Regardless of the effects on a person mentally and I've fcuking been there calling any hotline available because someone is sat on a bridge ready to jump, it's a waste of time telling any sports person not to take any enhancement performance drug because they will if told to. In professional sport every top sports personality has a dietary person who formulates food. The trainer's will find alternative ways to enhance performance.

I say, if performance drugs are banned they are banned regardless of excuses such as eggs for eff sake. If caught ban the effers.

Every sport has scientists who are employed to try to hide cheats, that's a damn fact.

Yeah when there's money involved...big money..I'm literally looking at Matthew Macklin right now we know who his best mate is