Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sport - 23 September 2023

[lookingaround87]

And Joe has never moved out the way of a punch in his life.

He did against Dubois.

[lookingaround87]

It would be quite a turn around, considering Joyce is 37 and the fight will only have been 5 months ago. Presumably some of those 5 months were spent resting up and recovering. I can’t see him having anything new to offer. Busted up again and probable retirement? Small chance Zhang turns up fat and out of shape I suppose.

Zhang is 40. He also has stamina issues. Joyce just needs to employ some kind of tactics in the first half of the fight (some kind of head movement and focus on Zhang's body) and Zhang will fade late and that's when Joyce is at his strongest.

[Teddy's Toupee]

.

[Teddy's Toupee]

Because of a freak injury and STILL he KO'd Lerena.



You mean the Zhang who lost to Hrgovic? That Zhang? See? We can both do this. Hrgovic is absolutely awful.



All planets.



Your opinion on what will happen in a completely different fight has nothing to do with the rematch between Zhang & Joyce.

Joyce is garbage. It's going the same way as last time.

Another moron presenting his opinion as fact. Okay goof, you post the betting slip with all the money you have on Zhang winning by stoppage (presumably you believe it'll end in the 6th round again), so go hit the jackpot. Oh, what's that? You're full of sh*t? Thought so.

Zhang could barely beat Hrgovic (who is truly awful), so if we're talking about who's garbage, maybe you should take a look at Zhang.

Joe's mum posting again ^.

[si7dog7]

Who the hell posted “Joyce Is Garbage?”

Please grow up. Sorry. Moron!

No. I’m not sorry.

Ffs!!! Forum. I know we have freedom. But c’mon.

[oogiebe]

.

Truly your best post!

[Gran Hermano]

Because of a freak injury and STILL he KO'd Lerena.



You mean the Zhang who lost to Hrgovic? That Zhang? See? We can both do this. Hrgovic is absolutely awful.



All planets.



Your opinion on what will happen in a completely different fight has nothing to do with the rematch between Zhang & Joyce.

Joyce is garbage. It's going the same way as last time.

Another moron presenting his opinion as fact. Okay goof, you post the betting slip with all the money you have on Zhang winning by stoppage (presumably you believe it'll end in the 6th round again), so go hit the jackpot. Oh, what's that? You're full of sh*t? Thought so.

Zhang could barely beat Hrgovic (who is truly awful), so if we're talking about who's garbage, maybe you should take a look at Zhang.

Another moron posting his opinion as fact

[oogiebe]

Neither fighter is garbage. Stop cluttering up the thread with garbage.

[The Gratest]

I just don't see how Joyce can make the fundamental changes required in such a short space of time when his whole career has been built on a somewhat face first, granite chinned, pressure fighter who'll walk through his opponent's punches to land his own and wear them down. Phew, i'm even out of breath writing about him.
His eye injury stoppage of Dubios was impressive at the time (was Dubois the slight favourite going in to the fight?), but now, in retrospect of the one-sided drubbing Dubois took against Usyk, it's clear he (DD) was never destined to be sitting anywhere near the top table. Joyce was able to land his jab repeatedly against someone with about the same amount of head movement that he has. Zhang took away Joyce's jab, it was not a factor in their fight, and I don't see him being able to land it in the rematch, or being able to land a lead straight right cross, which would require handspeed to do so. His left hook is of the sweeping variety rather than a step in shortened hook, and, like the jab, was never anywhere near Zhang in the first fight.

I get he needs to alter his style specifically for this fight, circling left, foot outside Zhang's, but can't just do that for 8 rounds until Zhang tires and his greater stamina comes into play. He'll have to engage to enable Zhang's stamina issues and that is when he'll get caught again. There's one thing repeatedly practicing sparring with a gameplan, but where will he find a 6ft 6" southpaw heavyweight that throws fast, powerful combos like Zhang does?

I mentioned in the build up to the first fight that Zhang reminds me of Corrie Sanders, and I believe the reason Wlad never rematched Sanders was because, in a styles make fights scenario, he knew that Sanders would always have his number. I see it similar with Joyce against Zhang.
Joyce could still beat a lot of high ranked heavyweights (it'd be interesting to see him up against Hrgovic whose body language hasn't been good when pressured and would be made to fight every minute by Joyce), he hasn't suddenly turned crap. Zhang is just all wrong for him though and that straight left and combos will probably cause the damaged eye to start swelling again quite early in the fight and a similar result to the first match up.
I like Joyce, in a weird way I enjoy his awkward interviews and complete lack of bullshit. Credit to him for taking on Zhang again and his attitude after the defeat. However, the rematch and his advanced age will probably stop him from ever challenging for a version of the HW title.

[MasterG]

Anyone from the forum attending the fight?

[jameswilson]

Looks like Yarde v Summers has fallen through so Yarde facing another late replacement.

The number of guys he’s fought who have had full 6-8 week camps is startling.

[tonyevs]

I get he needs to alter his style specifically for this fight, circling left, foot outside Zhang's,

Who can place their leading foot outside of the other will be the basics of both Joyce and Zhang. Hand speed typically provides the distraction to do so ... Slo-Joe isn`t just slow with his fists, his feet are almost as slow too.

My guess would be a high defence similar to a late George Foreman to make Zhang work. Joyce would be expected to be giving away the first half of the fight at least. But that took Foreman years to perfect .. Zhang looked stronger than Joyce last times, and a high defence leaves Joyce very vulnerable to Zhang`s fast and powerful sweeping punches.

Nope - its hard to imagine Joyce winning the rematch.

[Glass Joe]

this is the sort of fight after a round or two you can tell who the winner will be.

As for Yarde. No surprise there, its either cab driver or world-class opponent, no in-between.

[tonyevs]

For Joyce to win its basically coming down to Zhang gassing .. hardly a solid fight plan is it.

[polecateddy]

For Joyce to win its basically coming down to Zhang gassing .. hardly a solid fight plan is it.

Well there’s that and a second Hail Mary, which is Zhang turning up overweight and poorly conditioned. He’s transplanted from China to New Jersey two years ago, and presumably he’s now rich. He could go Buster Douglas bad?

And the 3rd I guess is getting old overnight at his age.

[Teddy's Toupee]

I get he needs to alter his style specifically for this fight, circling left, foot outside Zhang's,

Who can place their leading foot outside of the other will be the basics of both Joyce and Zhang. Hand speed typically provides the distraction to do so ... Slo-Joe isn`t just slow with his fists, his feet are almost as slow too.

My guess would be a high defence similar to a late George Foreman to make Zhang work. Joyce would be expected to be giving away the first half of the fight at least. But that took Foreman years to perfect .. Zhang looked stronger than Joyce last times, and a high defence leaves Joyce very vulnerable to Zhang`s fast and powerful sweeping punches.

Nope - its hard to imagine Joyce winning the rematch.

There's another way to get your backhand on a southpaw. Get your lead foot on the inside of their lead foot, as they throw their backhand slip to your right then counter with your own backhand as they bring their left arm back. It's what Ruiz was doing to Ortiz.

[tonyevs]

Which would take a certain amount of quick movement - not likely from a Frankenstein type guy like Joyce.

I think Joyce will be tightening up with a typical cross arm defence. It's ideal for a plodder like him .. whether he can keep closing the distance to avoid the sweeping hooks downstairs and making Zhang work is another matter though.

[Teddy's Toupee]

Which would take a certain amount of quick movement - not likely from a Frankenstein type guy like Joyce.

That's stating the obvious, which is why I didn't.

[Kilburn]

It does have a look of one of the those repeat results, due to Joyce, for all his determination, perhaps not being able to alter the pattern of the fight in the first half.

But on the plus side, eye damage aside Joyce was nowhere near beaten last time. And Zhang has clear weaknesses himself.

It’s on Joe to come up with something else, subtle or otherwise. Can he do it? I can’t wait to find out.

[Frostieballs]

It does have a look of one of the those repeat results, due to Joyce, for all his determination, perhaps not being able to alter the pattern of the fight in the first half.

But on the plus side, eye damage aside Joyce was nowhere near beaten last time. And Zhang has clear weaknesses himself.

It’s on Joe to come up with something else, subtle or otherwise. Can he do it? I can’t wait to find out.

The eye damage came because he was solidly beaten. It wasn’t a freak clash of heads. Joyce isn’t vulnerable there like a Hatton situation.

Unless he changes something, the same thing will happen. The damage may come out in a different place, but it will come out somewhere if you are outboxed liked that - particularly if you have a decent chin.

[polecateddy]

Eubank/Thompson 2. I think Joyce might end doing surprisingly well but then the eye just lets him down.

[Kilburn]

It does have a look of one of the those repeat results, due to Joyce, for all his determination, perhaps not being able to alter the pattern of the fight in the first half.

But on the plus side, eye damage aside Joyce was nowhere near beaten last time. And Zhang has clear weaknesses himself.

It’s on Joe to come up with something else, subtle or otherwise. Can he do it? I can’t wait to find out.

The eye damage came because he was solidly beaten. It wasn’t a freak clash of heads. Joyce isn’t vulnerable there like a Hatton situation.

Unless he changes something, the same thing will happen. The damage may come out in a different place, but it will come out somewhere if you are outboxed liked that - particularly if you have a decent chin.

Solidly beaten over the 6 rounds that took place, but eye damage aside, Joyce almost certainly had another 6 rounds in him. This isn’t insignificant when weighing up what might happen in a rematch.

But yes it goes without saying, Joyce can’t just show up and do the same thing again.

[Kilburn]

Eubank/Thompson 2. I think Joyce might end doing surprisingly well but then the eye just lets him down.

For Joyce to do surprisingly well, surely that would mean having a much better first half of the fight? If that were to happen, it seems unlikely that Zhang would have a decent second half given how his output drops off.

[TheLeprechaun]

I just don't see how Joyce can make the fundamental changes required in such a short space of time when his whole career has been built on a somewhat face first, granite chinned, pressure fighter who'll walk through his opponent's punches to land his own and wear them down. Phew, i'm even out of breath writing about him.
His eye injury stoppage of Dubios was impressive at the time (was Dubois the slight favourite going in to the fight?), but now, in retrospect of the one-sided drubbing Dubois took against Usyk, it's clear he (DD) was never destined to be sitting anywhere near the top table. Joyce was able to land his jab repeatedly against someone with about the same amount of head movement that he has. Zhang took away Joyce's jab, it was not a factor in their fight, and I don't see him being able to land it in the rematch, or being able to land a lead straight right cross, which would require handspeed to do so. His left hook is of the sweeping variety rather than a step in shortened hook, and, like the jab, was never anywhere near Zhang in the first fight.

I get he needs to alter his style specifically for this fight, circling left, foot outside Zhang's, but can't just do that for 8 rounds until Zhang tires and his greater stamina comes into play. He'll have to engage to enable Zhang's stamina issues and that is when he'll get caught again. There's one thing repeatedly practicing sparring with a gameplan, but where will he find a 6ft 6" southpaw heavyweight that throws fast, powerful combos like Zhang does?

I mentioned in the build up to the first fight that Zhang reminds me of Corrie Sanders, and I believe the reason Wlad never rematched Sanders was because, in a styles make fights scenario, he knew that Sanders would always have his number. I see it similar with Joyce against Zhang.
Joyce could still beat a lot of high ranked heavyweights (it'd be interesting to see him up against Hrgovic whose body language hasn't been good when pressured and would be made to fight every minute by Joyce), he hasn't suddenly turned crap. Zhang is just all wrong for him though and that straight left and combos will probably cause the damaged eye to start swelling again quite early in the fight and a similar result to the first match up.
I like Joyce, in a weird way I enjoy his awkward interviews and complete lack of bullshit. Credit to him for taking on Zhang again and his attitude after the defeat. However, the rematch and his advanced age will probably stop him from ever challenging for a version of the HW title.

Zhang was also able to catch everything on his guard and parry shots away. He wasn't being made to work. Joyce is going to be absorbing the left hand and right hooks again. He will have to increase his volume in order to reduce Zhangs volume but I can only see Zhang whipping in the right hook and straight left which are powerful punches. I think we will be hearing "CHINESE POWER!!!" shouted around the ring by Zhang again after the fight.

Zhang is also one scary looking guy. I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley. He's the kind of guy who you would empty your pockets immediately if he demanded your wallet.

[Kilburn]

Another (slight) plus for Juggernaut is that the ref will be all too aware that Joyce didn’t suffer any facial fractures last time, so may be inclined to give him more of a chance to stay in the fight, should the eye swell up again.