Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

The Art Of Persuasion

I think sometimes about that first Clay/Liston fight in Miami when few gave Clay a chance of surviving against the big bear and finally get his trap shut.But Clay wasn't folding. As the fight was progressing Clay showed that ability to move his feet like a dancer and stay away from Liston's bombs ,or at least when landed, the force of the blows were pretty much spent.. You could see Liston becoming more and more frustrated and the crowd began seeing that Sonny was running out of gas and Clay would pull the upset validating his poetic prediction.But then there was that thing of the linement getting into Clay's eyes.Whether they put it on Sonny's sore shoulder, or to make it more effective on his gloves, the stuff got into Clay's eyes. It was sudden,unexpected,but the purpose of the act was paying off. Clay panicked.

Returning to his corner Clay was frightened.
"Pull the gloves off!"he shouted at Angelo Dundee.
Clay was like an animal in a vise trying to pull of his own gloves off.if his hands came with it he wouldn't have cared. He was about to have a apoplectic stroke. But I got to hand it to Dundee.He understood what had happened. Liston was trying to make a last ditch stand,dirty as it was.
"Run!"he yelled at his young charge daubing a wet towel on his eyes and them pushing him back into the ring.

Later,when asked about the incident, Dundee said that if he had obeyed Clay's demand not only would he have lost the fight but who knows what the consequences would have been. Liston might not have given him a return match. The critics would have said that Clay was a quitter and made up a phony excuse. Cassius might have lost that bravado and self confidence thus affecting future performances.Worse yet his growing fan base might dwindle. Imagine Cassius Clay being just a contender?

But Cassius was fortunate having Angelo Dundee in his corner. His strength was as a motivator more than anything else.. If you want more proof just ask Ray Leonard about how against Tommy Hearns the first time and batting him around early, he let things get away from him and before the 14th round,now trailing on all the cards, Angelo Dundee lit a fire under his ass.
"You're blowing it son."

It's like that old adage applying to those two,"I needed to hear that."


Angelo Dundee

[dagosd2000]

You're Rich If You Have A Friend

Remembering back about that fight I talked about the other day,Mando Ramos and Sugar Ramos,when Mando was his best that night and over in Sugar's corner was a familiar face,Angelo Dundee. Dundee sure worked with a lot of great ones. Yeah,his brother had that gym in Miami where a lot of those Cuban exiled fighters found a home but maybe it was also that they knew little brother Angelo could handle them without reinventing the wheel.

Cassius Clay finally decided The 5th Street Gym was the place to be. Lots of hot fighters,plenty of energy,and he could rid himself of the two previous trainers that wanted to smother him,Joe Martin and Archie Moore. Cassius wanted Sugar Ray Robinson to be his man but Robby had an ego to equal The Louisville Lip's and knew that would be a wash.

The problem with Martin and Moore was that were lecturers,the father knows best types. Listen (to me ) and learn. I'm older and wiser and want to be in the limelight too. Not so much to share, but to be a amp more shinier. Discipline is what you'll have to bend to.My way, and you wouldn't think of the highway.Yap ,yap,yap.You see folks he couldn't have done it without me making him sweep the floors and make his bed and wash the dishes.

If you ever tune into that This Is Your Life segment on YouTube with Ali as the guest of honor,Joe Martin is brought out with Fred Stoner the black trainer of fighters in Louisville following behind. Well,Martin takes the mic and throws out his chest and remembers when young Cassius walked into the police station crying that someone had stolen his bicycle.It was that day ,according to Joe,that he made a man of that crybaby.Well, leave it to Ali.He interrupted Joe and hit him with a pie in the face.
"I'm going to let you in on something ,"Ali said with a smile."When you weren't around I'd sneak over to Fred Stoner's gym where the colored fighters were because Louisville was segregated and work out with his fighters because they were better and Fred Stoner was the one who showed me how to box."
How's that fit? Now go wipe the lemon merengue off your face.

As far as The Old Mongoose,he was tiresome. He wore on Clay.
"Wash the dishes? My mother never made me wash the dishes."
That was going to make Cassius The Greatest? Moore wasn't dealing with one of those youngsters in his Any Boy Can Club.

You see Angelo left Cassius alone.He saw that he was special. He already had the skills,his way of doing things.He didn't have to wash the dishes or plop in a chair and get lectured on Greek philosophers to be The Greatest.Hell, he couldn't even spell "Philosoher."But he knew he needed a chief second. Angelo Dundee deferred without getting bruised. That's why the guy had all those great fighters.THEY wanted him.

I bet they asked Archie Moore to be on that This Is Your Life episode when Ali was was being recognized. After leaving him at his training camp and then giving him a beating after fulfilling his poetic prediction I don't Archie wanted to hear about anything Muhammad Ali had to say.


Young Cassius Clay


The great Art Tatum. Wasn't the greatest speller in the world either.

[dagosd2000]

Double Standard

Got to thinking what would have been Archie Moore's reaction,if he would have been handling Cassius Clay, when Cassius started hanging around Malcolm X and joined up with The Nation Of Islam and changed his name to Muhammad Ali.Whoa.

When I was helping out that summer at Moore's ABC club he never brought up Ali's name nor the times he spent with him in the beginning. But he had made it public that he didn't like the way Clay talked about him after he left and before their fight.But I did hear him say in an interview that Muhammad gave boxing a shot in the arm when it needed one and that Ali was faithful to his principles.

However,Ali did turn his back on his pal Malcolm X when Malcolm left The Nation Of islam and formed his own sect. If Ali would have sided with his pal the chances are that Ali would have met the same fate as Malcolm. So in that respect he wasn't faithful.Yet Ali always carried a picture of Malcolm X on his person.That says something.

Archie Moore played the part of Jim the runaway slave in that movie Huckleberry Finn in 1960. That's when Moore wanted to take Cassius Clay under his wing. I guess Moore didn't mind washing dishes and sweeping floors playing the part of a slave. It was only a movie. But then when he pressed Cassius to do the same it was a different story. In both cases it was demeaning.


Malcolm X

[dagosd2000]

Touchy

Besides Archie Moore having thin skin regarding Cassius Clay's rhetorical barbs ,the retired undefeated heavyweight champion,Rocky Marciano, was also of the ilk "that sticks and stones might break my bones and i don't like being called names either."

Now Ali made a big fuss about being called out by an opponent but that was OK because that hyped up the fight ,or if it was the case of a retired pug criticizing his abilities he reflected the denunciations tongue in cheek with a smile on his face. He knew he could beat those guys.

But Marciano was always looking over his shoulder to see if Cassius (or Muhammad) had talked a little trash about him.In his day they didn't do that except for Two Ton Tony but even though he was Italian that was still hitting below the belt.

Marciano at one point said that he was glad that Cassius(or Muhammad whatever his new name was)hadn't crossed the line and made fun of him or invented a new poem or even insinuated that he could wup him. Rocky never had an unkind word about an adversary thus Cassius (or .whatever he wants to be called) should do the same thing-Live by the Golden Rule.

But then in 1969 they came up with that fantasy fight that both Marciano and you know who agreed to because there was a ton of money to be made.They(whoever they was)fed a computer full of data and bulls--t and it spit out the winner. I guess there were two feedings into this machine and two different results. One with each man the victor.

Well prior to this joke, Ali couldn't let the opportunity go by not saying what he thought about the outcome. He couldn't let Rocky get a pass. Rocky got huffy of course. His goomba Angelo Dundee told him not to piss in his raviolis,that it was only something to build up the gate. What's his name didn't really mean anything by it. it was an act.

Marciano died in that plane crash before the two versions were released. With all that fuss the computer couldn't make up it's mind.(they ought to find that pile of junk and give it a moniker and let it post on the forum) about who the winner was.Marciano never lived to comment on the one version that had him losing.(A 15 round decision).When the black guy saw the version of him going down for the count in the hard luck 13th leave it to him to have the last laugh.
"They must have made that computer in Alabama."


Sticks and stones might break my bones but words can never hurt me

[dagosd2000]

Bull Moose

Rocky Marciano was a little hard to figure.Cus D'Amato wanted to hold Floyd Patterson back until Marciano retired.Whether D'Amato thought at the time Patterson couldn't beat him, or maybe he could, then his paisan wouldn't go out a winner. I don't know. When Patterson and Archie Moore squared off for the vacant title Moore was the favorite.He had all that experience behind him but he looked like a rank amateur against Patterson that night.Marciano was surprised and impressed how Patterson had developed.

Marciano was wrestling for awhile whether to make a comeback.He said he didn't want to fight Patterson but when Floyd and Johansson were swapping belts Marciano said he might be interested in Ingo.But when Rocky returned to the gym he was smart enough to realize that he had lost it.

Marciano had this TV show where he had a guest celebrity on and they would watch a past fight and Rocky would narrate like it was a live performance.It was a good show but it went off the air and there went Rocky's spending money. Marciano had some bit roles in a few movies but he wasn't about to send Brando to the unemployment office.So what was the big fella' gonna' do to keep the coin rolling in?He wasn't going to work for anyone. He wanted to do what he wanted and live like a typical Latin husband-stay a bachelor.

Marciano was like Mickey Mantle when he packed it in. There were scads of Walter Mitty's out there that just wanted to hang out with them. Bingo! Rocky would go on the banquet circuit, but he wasn't getting up to the podium for free.

My father was a Moose. Not the animal kind but being a part of that racist fraternity The Loyal Order Of The Moose.He was on the board of Moose Lodge #3 in Berwyn,Illinois. Moose Lodge #3 was a big deal back then and had plenty of Walter Mitty's on its roles. Well, guess what? Rocky Marciano was also a Moose. Put 2 and 2 together-Rocky and my and man being Mooses and both being Italian. You could start passing the plate right now.

But Rocky was tight with a dollar. He wanted his fee up front before he started yakking about how he caught Walcott on the button with his Suzy Q. No checks.No IOU's, or Rocky would leave the building.

Well,that night at the Moose Lodge Rocky got his money beforehand-15 hundred smackers and then went on to talk about
things everybody already knew about. But after a few bourbons and waters no one minded.

Later in life I was a Moose. I can't remember how that started but when this honcho from the local Moose Lodge came over to do a backround check and I told him my old man was a bigshot Moose in Lodge # 3 in Chicago and that he knew Rocky Marciano I was treated like royalty.


Rocky Marciano

[dagosd2000]

Pound Per Pound

The two best pound per pound boxers in the world(according to the pundits) got to show off their stuff recently. After a year of inactivity undefeated Terence Crawford(one of those two best) fought another unbeaten,Errol Spence, And last night the other P4P best,Canelo Alvarez, fought the top contender (according to which boxing association you think is on top of things)Jermell Charlo.Both fights were mismatches. The pound for pound moniker wasn't passed along.

It's hard to find a positive about these two fights. Crawford fights once a year.After going through Spence he has nothing lined up on the docket. Canelo is in his twilight.His performance last night was admirable but that's not an adjective to apply when talking about a pound for pound best.He tried to capture the light heavyweight title but a big strong Ruskey(I think he's one of those Genghis Khan blood types) out Caneloed Canelo and was too strong for the Mexican with the nickname "Cinnamon". That seems the only thing left for Alvarez to tie together a great legacy-a rematch with the guy who beat him fair and square. But Cinnamon doesn't have the flavor to win the rematch.

If boxing is going to have a place on ESPN the champions have to fight more but when they do these "top" contenders make you scratch your head.

I saw boxing when it was at its best-great champs and quality contenders top to bottom, and fights galore most of them free on the tube. Yeah,those were my good old days(as far as boxing). Today,will these generation Z's and Alpha's call what's out there in the land of boxing the good ol' days? If they do they must be boring as hell.


Terence Crawford-a P4P great,and I didn't have to use a perentheses

[dagosd2000]

An Odd Twist

My father turned me on to the fights in Tijuana. The first one I saw with him was when Sugar Ray Robinson blew into town to take on the local, Memo Ayon. The year was 1965.Robinson was pretty much washed up by then but he was still a big draw,He was fighting often and he was globetrotting himself so that everyone could get one last look.He was broke even though he had had so many big fights.A businessman he wasn't. He could self promote but he couldn't hang on to his money. He would spend more than he was making. Robinson lost that night to Ayon.The fight was in the downtown bullring.It was close but they weren't gong to give him the benefit of the doubt. Robinson wasn't well received either.The aficianados berated him throughout the bout with racial slurs.

My father would talk once in awhile about maybe taking on a Mexican prospect and developing him into something big. My father had a couple of fighters under his wing in Chicago but they were a wash.I remember going with my father to the sporting goods store to pick out robes for them.My father had this rule of thumb-lose two in a row and I let you go.These two made quick work of that adage.

When we moved out to San Diego my father made a point of seeing what was available across the border. He said to me that there as a young kid,tall and with a long reach,that he had his eye on.My father shared the same thinking as Emanuel Steward-fighters tall with a long reach had an advantage over the shorter guy.The shorter guy would have to work to get close and take shots. Anyway, the name of this kid from TJ that my father was thinking of taking a chance with was named Rosendo Ruvalcaba.

We went down to see him fight on the undercard one night at the downtown bullring. The main event was Chango Carmona and Raimundo Dias but on the cover of the program they put Ruvalcaba's face on it. The kid had the looks of a real Latino Romeo.-olive skinned ,dark wavy hair ,glistening eyes.Don't think the girls didn't notice him ,and he was more than happy of responding passionately to their overtures. That lust waved a red flag in front of the old man's face.
"I'm worried that this kid let's women interfere with his training,"he quipped.

Well, they brought in a set up for Rosendo (or they imagined so) by the name of Papo Villa,a Puerto Rican fighter based in New York. The fight was going along with nothing to write home about when the Puerto Rican clipped the Mexican and he went to the canvas.Then just about the funniest thing I ever saw happened.As Ruvalcaba got up he couldn't control his torso. His legs were all right but his upper body was as limp as a wet tortilla. Usually it's the other way around.,From the waist up there's no problem but it's the legs that are wobbly. Ruvalcaba couldn't get himself straightened up.The ref was looking at him dumbfoundedly,the crowd was hysterical,and Rosendo Ruvalcaba's image as a Latin Elvis turned into a Cantinflas skit.
"Well,"said my father shaking his head,"I guess that does it for the kid.I wonder how he's going to explain this to all his girlfriends."


Cantinflas

[dagosd2000]

[dagosd2000]

Holding On To Nothing

There used to be a boxing gym next to the Belmont Park amusement park down at the beach.It was near the rollercoaster and out in front was the boardwalk,There were always a lot of passersby and the gym fared pretty well considering it was an odd place to have a boxing gym. But as the turn of the century approached I noticed that there were fewer fighters in the place.

The owner was also the trainer and instructor. He didn't take anyone on to help him out. He was kind of a hard guy to work for,and besides, there weren't many qualified guys that knew the ins and outs of fighting anyway.

The owner's name was Stuffy Smith.He was from back east and he used to train fighters in New York.He learned his trade mostly in Stillman's Gym watching guys like Ray Arcel and Charley Goldman and Whitey Bimstein.He soaked it up like a sponge and was happy in his work but then his wife got the rheumatism and she couldn't take the cold weather so they packed their bags and came out to California.

It was during February towards the end that I dropped by to see Stuffy and ask him how things were going. There was no one in the place.Stuffy was sweeping the floor.
"Where have you been?"he said putting the broom down.
He looked thinner than the last time I saw him. He never was out of character with his frayed T shirt and khaki pants and wearing an old pair of Keds.His thinning hair was as white as his shirt.His narrow frame was small yet erect.His light blue eyes were still alert and his movements brisk. He told me once he used to fight in the amateurs but he suffered a detached retina so he took to being a trainer
"I've been around.It's hard to find a place to park a car in the summertime."
"Come inside the office with me.I've got some bad news,"he said
We walked inside a small backroom. He sat at his desk that had papers scattered all over the top.I took my place on the other side.
"The landlord doesn't want to renew my lease,"he groused with his face staring at the mess of papers on top of the desk."He told me he's got a Burger King lined up to move me out."
"What are you going to do?"I asked trying to feel what he was going through."Right now I'm at a loss.All I've done most of my life has had to do with boxing."
I wanted to say something but couldn't at the moment think of anything.
"I've been here 25 years.I know things have slowed.Boxing isn't what it was. I don't know qnything else."
"It didn't help when The Coliseum finally closed,"I said coming up with something.
"I knew when old man Navarra turned things over to his son the handwriting was on the wall."
"He'll turn the place into one of his furniture stores."
"That family knows nothing about boxing,"he said making a fist on top of the desk.
"it all comes down to money I guess."
"At least the few fighters I had could help fill a card at The Coliseum but then they got rid of the weekly cards and finally it dwindled down to nothing."
"Now your lucky to have a few fights a year in San Diego."
"I had to raise my dues but that didn't help. No one wants to be a fighter anymore.It takes dedication and these kids don't have it."
Again I drew a balnk.
I don't know what I'm going to do."
"How about your son in Tucson?"
"I don't want to go there.He's got a wife that nags and three young kids and I hate the heat.I should have never left New York but my wife had all that pain but now she's gone too."
"Can you make ends meet?"
"I still have my place up the street but I never saved up enough if something like this came up. But hell I was losing my shirt anyway. I've always been self employed so I haven't got anything coming to me in Social Security. Losing out to a f--king Burger King.I can't stand thinking about it."
"Well then you should try not thinking about it."

There's saying that if you tell people about your problems,half don't care and the other half are glad you got them.In Stuffy's case I was willing to sit and listen,at least for awhile.

[dagosd2000]

Flash In The Pan

Getting back to that boxing gym down along the boardwalk I was talking about yesterday,Stuffy Smith's place.It never was the center of attention so to speak. The well known fighters in town didn't frequented it.Ski Goldstein,the heavyweight, comes to mind, but he was more of a curiosity piece than anything else. Ken Norton,Art Hafey,Ronnie Wilson, and just about all the Mexican Fighters trained in the downtown area near The Coliseum or in the South Bay near the border.

Stuffy's clientele consisted mostly of guys that wanted to recreate rather than obliterate another man in the ring. But at the end of the month money was money and it all added up the same.But I remember one time he had this guy,a big blond fella' who had gotten out of the Navy down here, and trained at Stuffy's. He turned turned pro right out of the gate.. He didn't have any amateur backround but as a pro he was undefeated in two fights.

I can't remember this kid's name but the local Tribune was writing about this guy like he was the next great White Hope.Now this was back in the 70's and I guess they thought he had enough in him that he could stand beside Quarry,Chuvalo,and Bonavena;at least according to the local scribes.

Mickey Davies,the matchmaker at The Coliseum along what with Aileen Eaton had going at The Olympic Auditorium in LA,put together this kid and another obscure sort(a black guy of course)in a main event.When the local scribes got a hold of this they were hyping it up as something parallel with Johnson and Jeffries.

They didn't write nothing about the black guy but they penned so much info on this kid that J. Edgar couldn't have done a more thorough job. He was from Tennessee and grew up on a farm and had 12 brothers and sisters and he walked 5 miles to school everyday and got interested in boxing when he found out he could whip all the rest of the guys on the battleship he was on and now had his dreams of making everybody forget about Rocky Marciano.

Well, that was enough to get me hooked and stand in line at the ticket window, The old Coliseum was packed to the doors that night.The black guy came out first and had a towel draped over his shoulders.He had an expression on his face that looked like he was going to walk up the steps of the gallows. Then the kid came out of the dressing room with Stuffy following close behind. If he didn't look like that Joe Palooka character that was on that TV series.He's getting a big round of applause and by the time he climbed though the ropes he looked like he had it already won..He stood there in his shiny satin robe with words "The Big Timber" inscribed on the back and waving at all four corners of the auditorium. The crowd went crazy.

They both stood center ring with the local ref Frank Rustich bringing them together to give them the instructions. The kid had a head taller on the black guy. Now I'm hoping that at least the black guy can make a fight of it and have it go a few rounds.

Well, the fight lasted less than that. The gong rang,both boys touched gloves,and before you could say Davey Crockett,"Big Timber" fell to the canvas like he was poleaxed. I guess he got hit with something. What? I don't know but I wasn't the only one who missed it. They could have counted him out with a calendar.I took a look at Stuffy and he had just folded up the kId's robe.Now he had to unfold it and put it back on him.

The next day the papers didn't even write it up. About a month later I dropped by Stuffy' to catch up on things and looked for the right time to bring up the kid.
"What ever happened o that kid from Tennessee? Does he still come around?"I asked kind of innocently.
Stuffy was setting out some headgear when I posed the question.He stopped what he was doing and gave me a stern look.
"You see this headgear I'm holding in my hand?Well, he asked me if he could have one so he could prove to the people back on the farm in Tennessee that he was a fighter."
"Did you give him one?"
"I did and told him not to let the door hit him on the ass on his way out."


George Chuvalo at the World Boxing Hall Of Fame in LA

[Joson]

I can't remember if I asked this question before, so I'll run it past you.

During the early to mid-1970s, when you were a fixture on the Southern California boxing scene, you must have seen Howard "KO" Smith fight live. He blitzed Jack O'Halloran in San Diego, and after that, stopped Larry Middleton in Los Angeles.

Boxing magazines were touting Smith as a dangerous puncher, particularly with his right hand. The KO over Middleton - who was rarely stopped - speaks for itself. Also, Howard KO'd Ron Lyle in the amateurs. Pretty impressive, at least on paper.

What was your impression of Smith? Did he really punch as hard as boxing journos claimed? Did he have the potential to blossom into a legitimate heavyweight contender? Or is the truth something else?

The only time I saw Smith fight (on TV), he was steamrolled by Earnie Shavers in two rounds. Not good. But I'm guessing Smith must have been a better fighter than what he showed on that particular day.

[dagosd2000]

I can't remember if I asked this question before, so I'll run it past you.

During the early to mid-1970s, when you were a fixture on the Southern California boxing scene, you must have seen Howard "KO" Smith fight live. He blitzed Jack O'Halloran in San Diego, and after that, stopped Larry Middleton in Los Angeles.

Boxing magazines were touting Smith as a dangerous puncher, particularly with his right hand. The KO over Middleton - who was rarely stopped - speaks for itself. Also, Howard KO'd Ron Lyle in the amateurs. Pretty impressive, at least on paper.

What was your impression of Smith? Did he really punch as hard as boxing journos claimed? Did he have the potential to blossom into a legitimate heavyweight contender? Or is the truth something else?

The only time I saw Smith fight (on TV), he was steamrolled by Earnie Shavers in two rounds. Not good. But I'm guessing Smith must have been a better fighter than what he showed on that particular day.

I have never thought of myself as a "fixture of the SoCal boxing scene"-more of a hanger-on,a fan. The "fixtures" are mostly gone today or punchy. I liked hanging around the gyms(mostly in San Diego and Tijuana) and got to know some "fixtures."It surprises me that what I picked up back then is considered a trove today.Anyway to address your question.

I saw Smith fight a few times. I saw his first fight that was on TV when he KO'd George "Battleship" Gray at the Valley Music Center in Woodland Hills,CA. It was both boys' debut-a 4 round prelim. They traded bombs and knockdowns for three rounds until Smith had the last laugh.


I saw both fights with O'Halloran at the old Coliseum. Smith won the first one by a split, but it was wider than that. In the rematch her stopped Happy Jack. O'Halloran was very popular in San Diego and the crowd wanted him to win but O'Halloran was more hype than quality.

I saw the Shavers fight on TV.That finished Smith as a legit contender.

Smith was a sharp puncher but he lacked defense.He reminded me in looks and style of Mathew Saad Muhammad.He didn't fight much.He was off awhile with a hand injury.When they talk about good West Coast heavyweights his name often gets omitted. Glad you brought him up to remind me.

[Joson]

I can't remember if I asked this question before, so I'll run it past you.

During the early to mid-1970s, when you were a fixture on the Southern California boxing scene, you must have seen Howard "KO" Smith fight live. He blitzed Jack O'Halloran in San Diego, and after that, stopped Larry Middleton in Los Angeles.

Boxing magazines were touting Smith as a dangerous puncher, particularly with his right hand. The KO over Middleton - who was rarely stopped - speaks for itself. Also, Howard KO'd Ron Lyle in the amateurs. Pretty impressive, at least on paper.

What was your impression of Smith? Did he really punch as hard as boxing journos claimed? Did he have the potential to blossom into a legitimate heavyweight contender? Or is the truth something else?

The only time I saw Smith fight (on TV), he was steamrolled by Earnie Shavers in two rounds. Not good. But I'm guessing Smith must have been a better fighter than what he showed on that particular day.

I saw Smith fight a few times. I saw his first fight that was on TV when he KO'd George "Battleship" Gray at the Valley Music Center in Woodland Hills,CA. It was both boys' debut-a 4 round prelim. They traded bombs and knockdowns for three rounds until Smith had the last laugh.

You're saying that Gray floored and hurt Smith? More than once? If so, that's new info about him, something that the boxing magazines never reported.

If indeed Smith was rocked and floored in that bout, it makes me wonder about his durability. That's assuming Battleship Gray wasn't one of those lethal punchers that are sometimes found on all echelons of the heavyweight talent ladder.

[Joson]

I can't remember if I asked this question before, so I'll run it past you.

During the early to mid-1970s, when you were a fixture on the Southern California boxing scene, you must have seen Howard "KO" Smith fight live. He blitzed Jack O'Halloran in San Diego, and after that, stopped Larry Middleton in Los Angeles.

Boxing magazines were touting Smith as a dangerous puncher, particularly with his right hand. The KO over Middleton - who was rarely stopped - speaks for itself. Also, Howard KO'd Ron Lyle in the amateurs. Pretty impressive, at least on paper.

What was your impression of Smith? Did he really punch as hard as boxing journos claimed? Did he have the potential to blossom into a legitimate heavyweight contender? Or is the truth something else?

The only time I saw Smith fight (on TV), he was steamrolled by Earnie Shavers in two rounds. Not good. But I'm guessing Smith must have been a better fighter than what he showed on that particular day.

Smith was a sharp puncher but he lacked defense.He reminded me in looks and style of Mathew Saad Muhammad.He didn't fight much.He was off awhile with a hand injury.When they talk about good West Coast heavyweights his name often gets omitted. Glad you brought him up to remind me.

Howard broke his right hand in the 1975 Middleton fight. If I remember correctly, it might have been a classic one punch KO.

As for Smith's lack of activity, his manager and the boxing magazines reported that he was being ducked by most of the top-ten or top-20 fighters.

BTW, Smith's manager was the famed Harry Kabakoff.

[dagosd2000]

I can't remember if I asked this question before, so I'll run it past you.

During the early to mid-1970s, when you were a fixture on the Southern California boxing scene, you must have seen Howard "KO" Smith fight live. He blitzed Jack O'Halloran in San Diego, and after that, stopped Larry Middleton in Los Angeles.

Boxing magazines were touting Smith as a dangerous puncher, particularly with his right hand. The KO over Middleton - who was rarely stopped - speaks for itself. Also, Howard KO'd Ron Lyle in the amateurs. Pretty impressive, at least on paper.

What was your impression of Smith? Did he really punch as hard as boxing journos claimed? Did he have the potential to blossom into a legitimate heavyweight contender? Or is the truth something else?

The only time I saw Smith fight (on TV), he was steamrolled by Earnie Shavers in two rounds. Not good. But I'm guessing Smith must have been a better fighter than what he showed on that particular day.

Smith was a sharp puncher but he lacked defense.He reminded me in looks and style of Mathew Saad Muhammad.He didn't fight much.He was off awhile with a hand injury.When they talk about good West Coast heavyweights his name often gets omitted. Glad you brought him up to remind me.

Howard broke his right hand in the 1975 Middleton fight. If I remember correctly, it might have been a classic one punch KO.

As for Smith's lack of activity, his manager and the boxing magazines reported that he was being ducked by most of the top-ten or top-20 fighters.

BTW, Smith's manager was the famed Harry Kabakoff.

If anyone did the ducking it was Kabakoff. He was famous for it.He had Jesus Pimentel and built his record up ,before his match with Olivares, with fighters with ,losing records.Then when Olivares got a hold of him he turned him inside out. I saw that fight at The Forum.Pimentel was never in it.Kabakoff knew that he couldn't make anymore decent money with Pimentel and let him go.

As far as Smith goes Kabakoff protected Smith to the point that he was also putting him in there with mediocre heavyweights. He fought Mike Weaver,sure,but it was his pro debut. O'Halloran was never a contender. Larry Middleton was marginal.Tony Doyls and Henry Clark the same.Kabakoff would wear his Hawaiian shirts over his fat belly and get on the local sports shows in LA and act like a jerk ranting and raving making little sense claiming basically he got no respect..He reminded me of Minnesota Fats making excuses why he was really a better hustler than Willie Mosconi but when they played Fats could never beat him.Kabakoff finally knew he had drained the well of so so fighters with Smith and finally put him in there with the best he had met up to that point in Shavers and he clocked him.Smith fought once after that.He was back at The Coliseum to sing his swan song fighting a guy with a losing record.


Ruben Olivares

[dagosd2000]

Earnie Shavers

[Joson]

Smith was a sharp puncher but he lacked defense.He reminded me in looks and style of Mathew Saad Muhammad.He didn't fight much.He was off awhile with a hand injury.When they talk about good West Coast heavyweights his name often gets omitted. Glad you brought him up to remind me.

Howard broke his right hand in the 1975 Middleton fight. If I remember correctly, it might have been a classic one punch KO.

As for Smith's lack of activity, his manager and the boxing magazines reported that he was being ducked by most of the top-ten or top-20 fighters.

BTW, Smith's manager was the famed Harry Kabakoff.

If anyone did the ducking it was Kabakoff. He was famous for it.He had Jesus Pimentel and built his record up ,before his match with Olivares, with fighters with ,losing records.Then when Olivares got a hold of him he turned him inside out. I saw that fight at The Forum.Pimentel was never in it.Kabakoff knew that he couldn't make anymore decent money with Pimentel and let him go.

As far as Smith goes Kabakoff protected Smith to the point that he was also putting him in there with mediocre heavyweights. He fought Mike Weaver,sure,but it was his pro debut. O'Halloran was never a contender. Larry Middleton was marginal.Tony Doyls and Henry Clark the same.Kabakoff would wear his Hawaiian shirts over his fat belly and get on the local sports shows in LA and act like a jerk ranting and raving making little sense claiming basically he got no respect..He reminded me of Minnesota Fats making excuses why he was really a better hustler than Willie Mosconi but when they played Fats could never beat him.Kabakoff finally knew he had drained the well of so so fighters with Smith and finally put him in there with the best he had met up to that point in Shavers and he clocked him.Smith fought once after that.He was back at The Coliseum to sing his swan song fighting a guy with a losing record.


Ruben Olivares

My view is that Larry Middleton and Henry Clark were pretty good fighters, Based on talent and record, they deserved a worldwide top-15 rating. You could call them fringe contenders, not much inferior to world class heavyweights. I give kudos to Smith for beating these guys.

But - as you point out - Tony Doyle was a tired, aging journeyman when Smith got to him. I agree that O'Halloran was really just a tough club-fighter. As for Mike Weaver, he was inexperienced and lacking management when he fought Smith. So these victories don't tell us much about Howard's ability.

The hoopla on Smith as a feared and avoided heavyweight was spread by the boxing magazines in the 1975-76 period. Based on what you say, it probably meant Kabakoff was hyping his fighter to the press.

One thing I do know is, in June, 1976, on the undercard of Foreman vs Frazier II, Smith stunk the joint out in winning a split decision over Johnny Boudreaux. That happened at Nassau Coliseum, and East Coast boxing scribes judged him harshly.

Concerning the Shavers debacle, it's worth noting that Jerry Quarry, the live TV commentator that day, said Smith had the ability to beat Earnie. Who knows. Maybe Howard froze under pressure.

Later in 1977, Smith was inked to fight Larry Holmes on TV. But the deal was scrapped because Smith had to retire due to an eye problem, possibly a detached retina.

[dagosd2000]

When Everyone Was Still Alive

We lived in my grandfather's old house on the corner of Polk and Oakley where my grandfather,Diamond Joe,was the King Of The Patch when I was a kid. He had his place,The Bella Napoli ,on South Halsted where anyone of noteriaty was in town would make a point of dropping in and eating the best Italian food west of Italy,stomp their feet to the music of a Louie Armstrong,and swill the best booze (supplied by old man Joe Kennedy) in prohibition era Chicago.

When I lived in that house the memories were still imbedded in the walls. Many of the big shots in The Windy City still would drop by and swap stories with my father about the a city bigger than life. Of course they knew that my grandmother would lay out a spread that would make a Roman emperor's mouth water so it was a no brainer.

I remember three guests of honor,all tied one time or another to my grandfather, and now my father still kept in touch.There was Rogers Hornsby the great hitter who played for my father's cherished Cubbies and managed the team at the same time .He had no trouble twirling spaghetti on his fork.Then there was the immortal Red Grange,The Galloping Ghost,who was the greatest running back of his time and later played for George Halas' big black mean and nasty Bears.He was employed for Papa Bear doing a weekly TV show discussing why you better watch your ass if you were to take on The Monsters of The Midway on a Sunday Afternoon




But since this a boxing forum I'll stay in line. Jack Dempsey I remember came to dinner. It was in the Bella Napoli where Al Capone approached The Manassa Mauler to work out a deal that when he fought Tunney in Soldiers Field he'd win the rematch. That would have been a real stretch. Jack told him that this would be his last fight but thanks but no thanks.

When my father told me that Jack Dempsey was coming over to destroy a plate of pasta it was really no big deal for me. I wasn't star struck more than curious. Before you sit down to eat you go to the bakery and get the hot fresh Italian bread that just came out of the oven. I never missed that ride.I'd sit in the back seat with all the hot loaves inside the bags and chip away at the crusts and put them in my mouth.The aroma that emerged from the breakages was spellbinding.

I remember Dempsey coming through the door. He had this presence.He was still the champ.He didn't have to command attention.People threw it at him.We all sat around the table to eat-me ;my sisters ;my father;and Dempsey;and after serving everyone, my mother and grandmother. The antipasto came first followed by a nice bruschetta,and then some fried eggplant,and then the topper-lasagna with the ricotta in the middle.Well, if you thought Dempsey gave a licking to Willard you should have been there to see him massacre his dinner. Afterwards it was anisette and coffee.The women went to the kitchen to clean up and us men swapped lies in the parlor.

"I remember the food in The Bella Napoli,"remarked Dempsey breaking out a stogie."It's still as great as ever."
"My father brought the best chef in Naples over to cook at The Bella Napoli,"said my father.
"My joint back in New York could use a cook like that."
"Capone ate in The Bella Napoli almost every night."
"Didn't they try to bribe the chef to put poison in his Spaghetti?"
My father just laughed.
"Hey Joe,,didn't you live with Capone for awhile?"
"After my father was killed Capone took me in.I lived there a couple of years and then his wife told him I had to go.She said I was a bad influence on their son."
I remember Dempsey shaking his head and taking a drag on his cigar and not saying nothing.


My grandafather,Diamond Joe,helping serving Jane Addams' Hull House orphan kids inside The Bella Napoli.


The music is still alive

[Joson]

Here's a topic that must be up your alley, as a long-term SoCal resident: Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. Any thoughts or opinions?

[dagosd2000]

Here's a topic that must be up your alley, as a long-term SoCal resident: Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. Any thoughts or opinions?

You really know how to pick 'em.One of the worst bands who ever made a record.They are horrible musicians. I guess Alpert went to the bullfights in Tijuana once and recorded the crowd noise and put it on that record The Lonely Bull. Trite,uninspiring,insipid sounds that some people think have a genuine Latin flavor.If your taste buds are into eating what comes out of bull's ass be sure to brush your teeth afterwards and don't get close to me.

[Joson]

Here's a topic that must be up your alley, as a long-term SoCal resident: Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. Any thoughts or opinions?

You really know how to pick 'em.One of the worst bands who ever made a record.They are horrible musicians. I guess Alpert went to the bullfights in Tijuana once and recorded the crowd noise and put it on that record The Lonely Bull. Trite,uninspiring,insipid sounds that some people think have a genuine Latin flavor.If your taste buds are into eating what comes out of bull's ass be sure to brush your teeth afterwards and don't get close to me.

Sounds like you seriously dislike that band, in an angry way. Me personally, I think they made great pop music. But in no way whatsoever did I ever regard their sound as authentically Latin.

[dagosd2000]

Here's a topic that must be up your alley, as a long-term SoCal resident: Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. Any thoughts or opinions?

You really know how to pick 'em.One of the worst bands who ever made a record.They are horrible musicians. I guess Alpert went to the bullfights in Tijuana once and recorded the crowd noise and put it on that record The Lonely Bull. Trite,uninspiring,insipid sounds that some people think have a genuine Latin flavor.If your taste buds are into eating what comes out of bull's ass be sure to brush your teeth afterwards and don't get close to me.

Sounds like you seriously dislike that band, in an angry way. Me personally, I think they made great pop music. But in no way whatsoever did I ever regard their sound as authentically Latin.

Angry because there were so many other groups that were far much better and never got the recognition.Every time they recorded they had to being in studio musicians to bail them out.Herb Alpert was marketed for the tin ear. Not even good elevator music.

Now here's a gringo that got it right with the Latin sound.Every time they blew into town I never missed a gig.Great musicians.Lots of things going on.

[dagosd2000]

Lend Me Your Ear

Before Thomas Murphy opened his gym on the second floor of that building between 10th and 11th on Broadway naming it after his son,Spud, the room was a nightclub.. More precisely it was a jazz hangout named Wards Jazzville.The joint was black owned,the entertainment featured black artists,all the employees were brothers and sisters,and though they didn't care who paid the cover charge the clientele was was a black and tan fantasy.

I'd go all the time.I knew nothing was going to happen.I knew that the people that went there wanted to listen to music. It wasn't a get whitey thing. If you liked jazz it didn't matter what color your skin was.Besides it was back in a day when there were no Bloods and Crips. No drivebys.No turf wars.Drug trade consisted of sordid little back alley deals under the cover of broken street lamps.Like I said I never got into a beef.

But since it was a black thing there were always the ABC around checking to see mostly if there were underage patrons inside. I'd get in the door never getting carded.(I was underage) Luckily I never got pinched.But I did see undercover nab a few minors. That was al it took to close the doors. Wards Jazzville had a short life but a happy one,at least for the ghetto crowd.

There was always a quirk about black jazz musicians when they blew into town.If they were jamming at a "black" joint they played their asses off.They knew that the hood wouldn't buy into any bulls--t.They knew the good from the bad. But when the brothers played in a "white"club(that is to say integrated) it was a different story,and the soul brothers were hep to it.

If a black group was performing at a "cracker club" blacks wouldn't go. They knew that the performance would be a rip off. It was like the musicians were giving the paid the middle finger.The thing was that that whitey didn't know the difference or was too timid to protest.

But one time I went to see Jimmy Smith,the renowned jazz organ player who revolutionized the keyboard, on the Hammond B3.Every time he was in town I'd go to see him perform. One night I was sitting at a table in Wards Jazzviile and he spotted me.
"I see we got a cracker in the house."he jived
"I'm no cracker I,"I shot back."I'm an albino."
He laughed his ass off.
"Buy that albino a drink,"he laughed.
Well, to get back to the time I saw Jimmy Smith at that "white club."I forget the name of the place.It was in Hillcrest,the gay neighborhood in San Diego, but I don't think there were many gays inside. Well, before Jimmy Smith got to playing he told the audience that he didn't like San Diego very much because he was stationed here for awhile when he was in the Navy and experienced a lot of prejudice.Then he went on to play. I never heard such s--t in all my life.He never tried that when I heard him at Wards Jazzville.

That night in Hillcrest he played like he was using his elbows pressing on the keys.I couldn't believe it.It was horrible.I'm surprised no one called the cops for disturbing the peace.After around 45 minutes he stopped the racket.I looked at he people. They didn't know hat to think,but I was sure that Jimmy Smith had ripped us off.

Outside on the street I felt a tap on my shoulder.I turned and it was Archie Moore.He must have recognized me when I was helping him at his boys club.
"What did you think?"was the rhetorical question.
"He ripped everyone off. Must have been because it was a white audience."
"But I was inside and I'm not white,"he joked.
"Well then maybe he didn't see you."


Archie Moore


JImmy Smith. He sure didn't play like this in that hanky club that night

[dagosd2000]

The Man

Armando Muniz told me that while fighting Jose Napoles in the return, after being robbed of victory the first time they fought,that he started to experience a twinge in his left shoulder every time he threw the jab. He saw docs and chiropracters but the pain kept getting worse.Mando fought twelve more times after losing a decision to Napoles in the second.fight,He was stopped in the last round by Carlos Palomino trying to win that elusive welterweight title(First time two college grads squared off in a championship bout).The fight was dead even going into the final round but Carlos started to catch Mando with some big shots and he couldn't finish.He fought Palomino again losing a decision fair and square.Mando's last fight was against the rising Sugar Ray Leonard failing to answer the bell for the 7th frame claiming his bum shoulder was giving him problems.

Mando's nickname was "The Man."He was born in Chihuahua( He became an American citizen and was always looked at as being a Chicano) and got that name from the white press.He wasn't the most gifted but he had only one gear and that was pedal to the metal.He compiled a record as an amateur to get him a spot on the U.S. boxing team in the 1968 Olympics.He lost in the quarterfinals.In the Army Mando was an all service champ and staying unbeaten kept him from going to Nam.After hanging up the mitts he became a teacher and wrestling coach at Rubidioux High School in Riverside,CA.He was elected president of The World Boxing Hall Of Fame and inducted into the California Boxing Hall of Fame and The West Coast Boxing equal.He opened a bail bond agency,He's happily married and he's adored by his kids.

He's got the dementia now. The last time I saw him was at Rick Farris' West Coast Hall Of Fame bash. He was there to get his award and spread cheer..He said the DMV yanked his license and he thought he got his award because he was Rick's frind. He got a laugh out of that one..He said his daughter gave him a ride.At this years West Coast ceremony they said Mando wasn't in shape to attend.

You know how the president has this power to give guys a reprieve? Trump pardoned Jack Johnson's conviction.Hey Joe Biden, if you're reading this I got an idea. Reverse that chicken s--t decision when they robbed Mando of the title against Napoles in Acapulco.S--t, if your son gets wacked on the pee pee I'm sure you'd give him a pass.Give Mando the belt he deserved and think of how many votes you'd get from the East LA.


Mando looking over some pictures of my artwork

[goose 5]

Nice photo, Roger. I know Mando a bit-nicest guy going; he told me once that he never had a street fight in his entire life .