Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

orbtastic
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 12549
Joined: 05 Dec 2006, 11:22

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by orbtastic »

Nightmare Roy wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 08:41
coneye wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 01:21 70,000 out of a million , Jeez not suprised there was a fall out , even more suprised Barry and Shane have got ANYONE to sign with them . I know if i was with them i would be double checking EVERY single invoice , and expense .
No that was Tim Witherspoon with Don King cant remember the exact figures but I'm pretty sure he won the court case and got money back
Don's trick was tell you you'd get X then pull you in the office and show you a briefcase of cash. Often the cash was only 70k but they would see the cash and take it. It would be gone a few weeks later. The other bonus for Don was that more than often they would spend it on drugs, hit the clubs and the women then drop the training and they were facing another DK fighter anyway.

Not to mention that his son was often their manager so a clear, conflict of interests there. He often got a 50% share of the purse which is illegal.

He would also take sparring partner fees, sanction fees and training fees out of their purse.
jamesmcdonnell
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 45213
Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

Sounds like the Mcguigans aren't too smart, or were very blasé if they thought they'd get away with it.

They needed a better creative accountant.
a force
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 775
Joined: 12 Feb 2010, 20:23

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by a force »

Coco wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 06:41 Shane has a gym in London and living there too, that's a lot of money, he has clearly benefitted from the financial arrangements.

There is no weekly wage in boxing
He will have made a fortune.

Trained Haye against Bellew on PPV.

Trained Groves throughout the super 6 which were apparently huge pay days.

Trained Frampton against Quigg.

Trained Luke Campbell against Lomachenko.

They’re just the PPV fights.

Okolie world title fights, Dubois against Bryan, Campbell against Garcia, Groves against Chudinov, even Haye in the warm up fights before Bellew would be all significant pay days.

The gyms always packed as well. 10% of Billam-Smith, Fowler, Caroline Dubois, both Azim’s, Scotney etc over the last few years & it all adds up to a hell of a lot.
coneye
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8565
Joined: 21 Jun 2004, 06:00

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by coneye »

Is the book out yet ,, anyone read it
maverick23
Cruiserweight
Posts: 10375
Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 18:20

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by maverick23 »

coneye wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 20:49 Is the book out yet ,, anyone read it
Yeah - it’s out. I haven’t bought/read it yet though.
Ruthless-RKO
Welterweight
Posts: 100750
Joined: 24 Apr 2016, 11:59

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Ruthless-RKO »

Carl Frampton: Daniel Kinahan's boxing firm 'was good for me'

Retired boxing star Carl Frampton has said a defunct boxing management company, co-founded by a man accused of leading an organised crime gang, "looked after me".

Daniel Kinahan co-founded the firm MTK.

The US government imposed sanctions on him after he and other members of his family were identified as leaders of the Kinahan organised crime cartel.

Up to $5m (£4.1m) is being offered for information leading to their arrests or financial disruption of the gang.

Mr Frampton, who has no involvement in crime, had already retired when the MTK management company was disbanded after the sanctions were announced.

Daniel Kinahan had previously been named in the High Court in Dublin as the controller and manager of the Kinahan gang.

Mr Frampton, a former two-weight world champion, was advised by MTK after he split from his former manager Barry McGuigan.

Mr McGuigan and Mr Frampton settled a multi-million pound legal case in 2020, with MrFrampton saying he was "extremely happy" with the confidential settlement.

Speaking during the promotion for his autobiography, he said MTK was "good" for him.

He also said he had "no regrets".

'10 times more money'

Speaking to BBC Sport NI, Mr Frampton said: "I got a fair bit of grief about it and, look, people can say what they want but for me MTK were, when I had left the McGuigans, good for me.

"They had an advisory role where they got good deals off allegedly, as the first promoter at Queensbury [a boxing promotions company], and Bob Arum at Top Rank, when I had signed a deal with them as well.

"So, people get mixed up and talk about me being paid by MTK."

He added: "I was paid by the promoters that they got the deals with.

"So, I mean, at a point in my career and the court process and stuff was going on while I was still fighting... I was worried about things and I got, with MTK, the Josh Warrington fight off allegedly.

"So they done a deal with allegedly... I was a challenger in this fight, [got] 10 times more money than I got to fight Kiko Martinez in a government-funded fight in Belfast.

"So, I had a bit of security for my family and, I mean for me personally, MTK looked after me."

He also said: "I didn't have knowledge of anything, I was a boxer boxing, that was it."

He concluded: "When you talk about the sanctions and stuff that happened after that, I was already a retired fighter then - so I was a boxer boxing, and that's all I was doing."

A week after the United States sanctions were announced against Daniel Kinahan and others, it was confirmed that MTK would close down.

A prominent Irish police officer told BBC News NI last year that many boxers had been exploited and preyed upon by the Kinahan gang.

Daniel Kinahan's lawyer previously told the BBC that he had no criminal record or convictions and the allegations about him being a crime boss were false and had no evidential basis.

Image
In 2022, rewards of up to $5m (£4.1m) were offered for information on the gang

But law enforcement agencies in the US, Ireland, the UK and other European countries want to find Daniel Kinahan and some other members of his family and bring them before the courts.

For many years now, across the island of Ireland, there has been a major focus on the illegal activities of the Kinahan gang.

This has brought attention to the people suspected of being at the top of the organised crime gang all the way down to the destructive and devastating impact their illegal drugs supply network has had on individuals, families and communities in towns, villages and cities across the island.
Nightmare Roy
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 16398
Joined: 18 May 2003, 17:29

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Nightmare Roy »

Ruthless-RKO wrote: 04 Oct 2023, 03:51 Carl Frampton: Daniel Kinahan's boxing firm 'was good for me'

Retired boxing star Carl Frampton has said a defunct boxing management company, co-founded by a man accused of leading an organised crime gang, "looked after me".

Daniel Kinahan co-founded the firm MTK.

The US government imposed sanctions on him after he and other members of his family were identified as leaders of the Kinahan organised crime cartel.

Up to $5m (£4.1m) is being offered for information leading to their arrests or financial disruption of the gang.

Mr Frampton, who has no involvement in crime, had already retired when the MTK management company was disbanded after the sanctions were announced.

Daniel Kinahan had previously been named in the High Court in Dublin as the controller and manager of the Kinahan gang.

Mr Frampton, a former two-weight world champion, was advised by MTK after he split from his former manager Barry McGuigan.

Mr McGuigan and Mr Frampton settled a multi-million pound legal case in 2020, with MrFrampton saying he was "extremely happy" with the confidential settlement.

Speaking during the promotion for his autobiography, he said MTK was "good" for him.

He also said he had "no regrets".

'10 times more money'

Speaking to BBC Sport NI, Mr Frampton said: "I got a fair bit of grief about it and, look, people can say what they want but for me MTK were, when I had left the McGuigans, good for me.

"They had an advisory role where they got good deals off allegedly, as the first promoter at Queensbury [a boxing promotions company], and Bob Arum at Top Rank, when I had signed a deal with them as well.

"So, people get mixed up and talk about me being paid by MTK."

He added: "I was paid by the promoters that they got the deals with.

"So, I mean, at a point in my career and the court process and stuff was going on while I was still fighting... I was worried about things and I got, with MTK, the Josh Warrington fight off allegedly.

"So they done a deal with allegedly... I was a challenger in this fight, [got] 10 times more money than I got to fight Kiko Martinez in a government-funded fight in Belfast.

"So, I had a bit of security for my family and, I mean for me personally, MTK looked after me."

He also said: "I didn't have knowledge of anything, I was a boxer boxing, that was it."

He concluded: "When you talk about the sanctions and stuff that happened after that, I was already a retired fighter then - so I was a boxer boxing, and that's all I was doing."

A week after the United States sanctions were announced against Daniel Kinahan and others, it was confirmed that MTK would close down.

A prominent Irish police officer told BBC News NI last year that many boxers had been exploited and preyed upon by the Kinahan gang.

Daniel Kinahan's lawyer previously told the BBC that he had no criminal record or convictions and the allegations about him being a crime boss were false and had no evidential basis.

Image
In 2022, rewards of up to $5m (£4.1m) were offered for information on the gang

But law enforcement agencies in the US, Ireland, the UK and other European countries want to find Daniel Kinahan and some other members of his family and bring them before the courts.

For many years now, across the island of Ireland, there has been a major focus on the illegal activities of the Kinahan gang.

This has brought attention to the people suspected of being at the top of the organised crime gang all the way down to the destructive and devastating impact their illegal drugs supply network has had on individuals, families and communities in towns, villages and cities across the island.
I didn't know nufink Guv.
Coco
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 28310
Joined: 08 May 2007, 05:42

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Coco »

10 times more fighting as a challenger than as a champ at home.

I suppose that is the dif between 70k and 700k
coneye
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8565
Joined: 21 Jun 2004, 06:00

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by coneye »

Coco wrote: 04 Oct 2023, 08:49 10 times more fighting as a challenger than as a champ at home.

I suppose that is the dif between 70k and 700k
Reading between the lines seems like Kinahan was the absolutly best move for him , Barry obviously did'nt want to appear to be fooking him over
high tower 1
Super Featherweight
Posts: 1591
Joined: 04 Aug 2018, 09:36

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by high tower 1 »

I’ve read it. They shafted him. Frampton bankrolled their lives and was getting rinsed. It was much much more than a few quid on hotels and lingerie. Very disappointed in Barry after reading it.
jameswilson
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 13361
Joined: 08 Jan 2004, 18:01

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by jameswilson »

I did think a bit came out at the time of the court case about Indian meals in Canterbury and clothes being bought under the expenses bracket.
Counter-puncher
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 39141
Joined: 20 May 2008, 11:41

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Counter-puncher »

jameswilson wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:00 I did think a bit came out at the time of the court case about Indian meals in Canterbury and clothes being bought under the expenses bracket.
That’s most of the stuff I remember, wasn’t there about sixty odd Mcguigan family and guests that stayed in a hotel for a fight weekend, when one of the fighters on the card didn’t get a room at all, Or something? Ha.

‘Bankrolled their lives’ sounds more drastic than I remembered but maybe there are loads of details I don’t know or remember.
Coco
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 28310
Joined: 08 May 2007, 05:42

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Coco »

Counter-puncher wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:05
jameswilson wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:00 I did think a bit came out at the time of the court case about Indian meals in Canterbury and clothes being bought under the expenses bracket.
That’s most of the stuff I remember, wasn’t there about sixty odd Mcguigan family and guests that stayed in a hotel for a fight weekend, when one of the fighters on the card didn’t get a room at all, Or something? Ha.

‘Bankrolled their lives’ sounds more drastic than I remembered but maybe there are loads of details I don’t know or remember.
Enough to set up a gym for McGuigan jnr when there were no fighters left in cyclone promotions
SeanBrennan
Bantamweight
Posts: 9634
Joined: 12 Feb 2022, 12:45

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by SeanBrennan »

high tower 1 wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 15:51 I’ve read it. They shafted him. Frampton bankrolled their lives and was getting rinsed. It was much much more than a few quid on hotels and lingerie. Very disappointed in Barry after reading it.
was it a good read?
maverick23
Cruiserweight
Posts: 10375
Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 18:20

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by maverick23 »

Coco wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:36
Counter-puncher wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:05
jameswilson wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:00 I did think a bit came out at the time of the court case about Indian meals in Canterbury and clothes being bought under the expenses bracket.
That’s most of the stuff I remember, wasn’t there about sixty odd Mcguigan family and guests that stayed in a hotel for a fight weekend, when one of the fighters on the card didn’t get a room at all, Or something? Ha.

‘Bankrolled their lives’ sounds more drastic than I remembered but maybe there are loads of details I don’t know or remember.
Enough to set up a gym for McGuigan jnr when there were no fighters left in cyclone promotions
Shane was still training people though. If he was getting 10% of all of his fighters purses then it would have been more than enough to pay the deposit on a gym.

The likes of Groves and Haye were never with Cyclone but would/should have generated Shane a fair bit of money.
Coco
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 28310
Joined: 08 May 2007, 05:42

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Coco »

maverick23 wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 04:42
Coco wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:36
Counter-puncher wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:05

That’s most of the stuff I remember, wasn’t there about sixty odd Mcguigan family and guests that stayed in a hotel for a fight weekend, when one of the fighters on the card didn’t get a room at all, Or something? Ha.

‘Bankrolled their lives’ sounds more drastic than I remembered but maybe there are loads of details I don’t know or remember.
Enough to set up a gym for McGuigan jnr when there were no fighters left in cyclone promotions
Shane was still training people though. If he was getting 10% of all of his fighters purses then it would have been more than enough to pay the deposit on a gym.

The likes of Groves and Haye were never with Cyclone but would/should have generated Shane a fair bit of money.
Trainers are never on 10% for big fighters

Saying that for Frampton it was him getting the 10%
Nightmare Roy
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 16398
Joined: 18 May 2003, 17:29

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Nightmare Roy »

Coco wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 07:09
maverick23 wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 04:42
Coco wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:36

Enough to set up a gym for McGuigan jnr when there were no fighters left in cyclone promotions
Shane was still training people though. If he was getting 10% of all of his fighters purses then it would have been more than enough to pay the deposit on a gym.

The likes of Groves and Haye were never with Cyclone but would/should have generated Shane a fair bit of money.
Trainers are never on 10% for big fighters
Some are if they start out with them but yeah I imagine the top earners pay a flat fee.
liamlion
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1954
Joined: 06 Jan 2005, 09:56

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by liamlion »

bripez wrote: 02 Oct 2023, 08:34
BigDoofus wrote: 02 Oct 2023, 07:18
a force wrote: 02 Oct 2023, 06:12 None of that happens without the McGuigan’s in my opinion.
Or this?

"41 hotel rooms in Manchester, Frampton's purse withheld. lingerie and womens shoes in New York, £250 at a department store in Canterbury, £260 to a vet in Whitstable, £270 at an antiques store near Canterbury, £350 at a luxury furniture-maker in London, £365 at Marks & Spencer in Canterbury, £48 at a Tandoori restaurant in Canterbury on Christmas Eve, 855 complimentary tickets and 11 non-paying sponsors for Frampton-Martinez (the show made a "loss")

I do get it, however they did manage his career beautifully-
a pathway to a world title and £million purses and I wouldn't begrudge Barry a chicken madras or Sandra some fancy nick nacks!
Are you sure? Didnt Frampton batter Kiko Martinez for the European title and yet Martinez got a shot at the IBF before Frampton and then defended that IBF title against Frampton as champion?
steve689
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 9651
Joined: 20 Jan 2003, 13:50

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by steve689 »

Aye he was well matched to million dollar purses but Frampton only about 30% of it!

I'm looking forward to reading the book. Will wait until the fuss dies down and it's cheaper. I got a few mentions in it so I'm told. Too afraid to look yet lol. Waiting the Barry hair dryer treatment again.
maverick23
Cruiserweight
Posts: 10375
Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 18:20

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by maverick23 »

Coco wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 07:09
maverick23 wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 04:42
Coco wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:36

Enough to set up a gym for McGuigan jnr when there were no fighters left in cyclone promotions
Shane was still training people though. If he was getting 10% of all of his fighters purses then it would have been more than enough to pay the deposit on a gym.

The likes of Groves and Haye were never with Cyclone but would/should have generated Shane a fair bit of money.
Trainers are never on 10% for big fighters

Saying that for Frampton it was him getting the 10%
Even if he was getting 5% or a decent fixed fee then it’s enough for a gym deposit.

I’m not condoning how Frampton was managed and it’s awful that how little he got of some of the purses but I haven’t seen anything that puts the blame on Shane or that alludes to him receiving more than he should have received.
maverick23
Cruiserweight
Posts: 10375
Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 18:20

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by maverick23 »

steve689 wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 14:05 Aye he was well matched to million dollar purses but Frampton only about 30% of it!

I'm looking forward to reading the book. Will wait until the fuss dies down and it's cheaper. I got a few mentions in it so I'm told. Too afraid to look yet lol. Waiting the Barry hair dryer treatment again.
Ahhh right - did you work with Cyclone promotions?
a force
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 775
Joined: 12 Feb 2010, 20:23

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by a force »

I’m pretty sure Shane wouldn’t need money from Cyclone to build a gym. I listed some of the big fights he was involved in on an earlier page. He was earning a fortune
Stevieaber
Lightweight
Posts: 263
Joined: 26 Nov 2017, 13:05

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Stevieaber »

Counter-puncher wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:05
jameswilson wrote: 09 Oct 2023, 16:00 I did think a bit came out at the time of the court case about Indian meals in Canterbury and clothes being bought under the expenses bracket.
That’s most of the stuff I remember, wasn’t there about sixty odd Mcguigan family and guests that stayed in a hotel for a fight weekend, when one of the fighters on the card didn’t get a room at all, Or something? Ha.

‘Bankrolled their lives’ sounds more drastic than I remembered but maybe there are loads of details I don’t know or remember.
Loads more details. Claiming to earn peanuts and paying about 3 grand a year tax while the company accounts are into big deficits even when they are promoting world title fights. Turns out Barry and his Mrs were banned from being company directors for doing the same thing previously too.
Charging Frampton for promotional expenses AFTER the fight and using it to pay a family holiday, holding tickets back to sell on themselves. It’s all in there
jamesmcdonnell
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 45213
Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

Sounds like a fraud case here, declaring minimal earnings, running the company at a loss, whilst lavishing large chunks of what would have Been taxable profit on very dubious expenses.

Can see this ending up either tax man taking them to court.
Stevieaber
Lightweight
Posts: 263
Joined: 26 Nov 2017, 13:05

Re: Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

Post by Stevieaber »

jamesmcdonnell wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 16:46 Sounds like a fraud case here, declaring minimal earnings, running the company at a loss, whilst lavishing large chunks of what would have Been taxable profit on very dubious expenses.

Can see this ending up either tax man taking them to court.
Yeah. It all sounded very, very dubious
Post Reply