Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Nice photo, Roger. I know Mando a bit-nicest guy going; he told me once that he never had a street fight in his entire life .

That's one for the books

[dagosd2000]

I Never Knew

Sometimes you think all these fighters,including the great ones, keep in touch with each other;like Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard call each other up on the phone once a week and send each other Christmas cards and take vacations together with their families. If they live in the same city they might keep tabs but ,like anyone else distance is a key factor with not getting together.

You all know the story about what happened in Acapulco the night referee Ramon Berumen,Jose Sulaiman's nephew, got the signal from his tio to halt the action when Jose looked like he was about ready to collapse, and awarded Mantequilla the win by TD.Jose Napoles was my favorite fighter but I couldn't swallow that.

When awhile back when I finally tracked Jose down in that dingy neighborhood in Ciudad Juarez sitting outside his rented house(Jose Sulaiman picking up the tab)I mentioned to him that I knew Muniz and would probably see him at the next boxing convention in LA. Then he hit me when my guard was down.
"I felt bad about the first fight,"he said.
Maybe he wanted to clear the air, assume some guilt.He knew if I saw Mando I'd pass that by him.I didn't press him any further on the subject.I don't think he wanted me to.

When I saw Armando at the West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame Ceremony I told him what Napoles had said to me. Armando stopped in his tracks.
"He really said that?"asked Mando giving me a face like don't screw with me about this.
"Yeah,he really said that."
Mando let out a breath and didn't say a word.It was like some kind of vindication. Too bad Mando couldn't have heard it straight from Jose's mouth. Then he asked me how Napoles was doing.
"He's not doing too good,"I replied.
Mando paused a moment,then went on.
"I should have won the first fight but he won the second one," Mando said placidly.
I think Mando finally could put that whole thing to rest. If Jose Napoles had that in his heart that was all that mattered.


Jose Napoles

[dagosd2000]

The Pyrrhic Victory

Before they had cable and PayPerView and a thousand different channels, in San Diego there were the ABC,CBS,and NBC affiliates and no local independent channels. LA had their major network affiliates and channels 5,11,and 13 as their local independent channels.Tijuana had a station,channel 12, that broadcast on Saturday nights live boxing matches from somewhere within the republic.Most of the bouts came from the Arena Coliseo in Mexico City but when there was a major fight somewhere else in Mexico that fight would be shown live on channel 12.

Since channel 12 was coming from TJ the reception was easy to pick up unlike the LA stations were you had to screw around with an added on pair of rabbit ears with the antenna on the roof and keep turning the device until the reception came in. But if there was bad weather forget it. I missed some nice action from the Olympic from time to time being broadcast on channel 5 from LA because of bad weather.

The San Diego TV Guide never listed what was being shown on channel 12 the Mexican channel. But since my Mexican wife liked to watch channel 12(she never watched the U.S. channels) I pretty much knew what was on there. I liked a variety show called Siempre En Domingo with host host Raul Velasco. The show was also syndicated in the U.S. and was very popular.it was Mexico's equivalent to Ed Sullivan. Then there was a local show on Friday nights called Club De Las Estrellas. It was a talent show. There was this short little fat guy who was blind and had a mustache and they called him Don Jose that would introduce the contestants.It was all singing.Since the musicians who did the back up were mariachis the contestants had to sing mariachi songs. If a contestant was stumbling through he'd get the siren but if he made it to the end Don Jose would award him with "a machina de escribir"-a ballpoint pen.My brother in law got up there once and won a pen and was pretty drunk but that didn't surprise me because Mexicans like to sing when they're drunk.

But Saturday nights was when I'd get my satisfaction watching the fights from Mexico. I like them better than the fights from the Olympic.Everything about them was more intense,electric.When Jose Napoles was to fight Armando Muniz from Acapulco I couldn't wait to see it. I invited a friend to watch the fight with me.He wasn't into boxing much so I was building up Napoles as the greatest fighter on the face of the earth.It would be something memorable.

My friend I could tell wasn't buying into all my hype and sat there deadpan in front of the set. As the fight moved along I could tell something wasn't right with Jose. He was being forced to the ropes by Muniz and couldn't get him off him. Armando was banging away and you could tell Jose didn't like getting hit in the gut.As the fight wore on it got worse for the champion.He was tiring to the point that it looked like he couldn't last. Then he began fouling Armando but that didn't even work.When it looked like that Jose was about to go the referee,Ramon Berumen,halted the action.I thought he had stopped the fight and was going to declare Muniz the winner.But instead he raised Napoles' hand and gave him the victory on a foul-a technical decision.I looked at Jose standing there and his face looked like home plate after 23 to 22 ball game.Then my friend chimed in.
"That guy Napoles got his ass kicked."
I had no excuse.So I tried to wipe the egg off my face.
"Let's go down to the Arizona,"I said sheepishly."The drinks are on me."


Mantequiila after being spread around by Armando Muniz

[dagosd2000]

You Can't Fool Me



OK.What's wrong with this picture?

It's Rocky Marciano getting fed macaroni by his Mama.Now I picked up on it right away. I know there's things like photoshop and meme and Artificial Intelligence.It must be one of those tricks because this picture is a gag,a put on,a fake.

So what's wrong with this picture? Before I tell ya' you gotta' give it a whirl. I knew right away.I didn't fall off no turnip truck. I've been around the block. My IQ is 97. I know the score. I watch Jeopardy.Give up? Well here it is.

No Italian eats his pasta with a glass of milk.Unheard of.Never seen it.MIlk? I'm getting an upset stomach just thinking about it. Italians aren't into milk.Maybe when they're babies they're sucking away on mamas' titty but milk is on the pay no mind list after that. Go to Italy.You can't even find milk in the stores.Have you ever seen a cow in Italy.I haven't. No, this picture is some kind of publicity stunt. They didn't want you seeing Marciano having a glass of chianti with his macaroni.I bet Mrs. Marciano had to borrow that bottle of milk from her next door neighbor.


Rocky's mama-priceless

[dagosd2000]

A Little Rough

Breaking down what Pasqualina Marciano had to say when asked how her son should be remembered.I think the question caught her off guard.She had to pause to think, then said-
"A little rough(pausing again))but he loved the children."
She had to come back to say something nice after that"Little rough" comment. Both assertions were accurate.It's funny how she blurted out about her son's character(a Freudian response?),not necesarily his roughness in the ring but his general disposition.

Yeah ,mama, Rocky must have been a handful-in and out of the ring.



Rocky

[dagosd2000]

The nightmare

The word was going around that Archie Moore would finally get tagged by the up and coming heavyweight from Argentina with the "drop dead looks" ,Alejandro Lavorante. Tragically, six months later Lavorante would suffer a KO defeat from a little known fighter by the name of John Riggins that would result in Lavorante's death sixteen months later.

Prior to the Moore fight Lavorante had been building his rep out here on the West Coast. He hadn't a lot of fights but some of his wins were against notables like Zora Folley and Willie Besmanoff by KO,and Alonzo Johnson and Monroe Ratcliff going the distance.

Lavorante was a tall swarthy skin good looking kid with dark eyes to go along with his wavy hair. With Latin charm and a solid punch he was becoming a very popular fighter,especially when most of the good heavyweights were based east of the Mississippi. Frank Sinatra had planted the seed to Lavorante that if he played his cards right the Hollywood moguls would dive a test run . Maybe another Fernando Lamas also from the land of Pampas.

Like I said, when they put Lavorante and Moore together I think they had in mind that the Argentinian would come out on top and that would be his breakout fight into the big time. But leave it to Archie Moore to put that idea to rest including putting Lavorante to sleep. Call it too much experience on Moore's end compared to a lack of it on Lavorante's side.Lavorante was in way over his head.He was so utterly beaten they carried him from the ring on a stretcher.After seeing that I said to myself he better get ahold of Sinatra ,f Frank was still interested.

But instead of thinking about a career change his people signed Lavorante to fight Cassius clay four months later. It was another slaughter. But instead of pulling out Sinatra's phone number, Lavorante was back in the ring again. This time against a journeyman who had lost five out of last six fights named John Riggins.

Lavorante had taken too much punishment from Moore and Clay to be fighting only two months after the losing to the guy who thought of himself as The Greatest. But nobody thought Lavorante was going to lose to Riggrns,and especially die.

Looking back on Lavorante's career it's easy to say he was rushed.He shoulda,coulda.But most fighters are dreamers and they live with that dream.In Lavorante's case the dream turned out to be a nightmare.


Archie Moore

[Joson]

Dagosd2000:

Getting back to the subject of Ken Norton - which you've had a lot to say - do you think he could have beaten Anthony Joshua? Me personally, I think AJ would have run Kenny over, just like the Foreman, Shavers, and Cooney debacles.

Norton never fared well against devastating punchers who could back him up. I remember reading that the way he planted his back foot (as if it's in a bucket), meant he was a stationary target for hulking, big bombers.

I'm surprised there are lots of people on this board who believe Norton would have beaten AJ. Size makes all the difference, here, IMO.

[dagosd2000]

Macho Man

I don't know how they felt about the fight in Puerto Rico but in Mexico and in the Mexican community in the U.S. the match up between Julio Cesar Chavez and Hector"Macho "Camacho was as big as you could imagine. No need to hype up this one.It was a natural. The stoic Mexican and the animated Puerto Rican. The ugly(and proud of it) Chavez and the pretty boy(and also proud of his looks) Camacho. The Caribbean and all its picante and salsa music and Mexico with its mariachis seasoned with jalapenos. But the bottom line was which fighter would represent his country as being the most manly,the guy with the Roman empire name or the one who just called himself "Macho"?They were surrogates for virility in a culture where the man wore the pants and the women put on dresses.

My wife worked for Ghio Seafoods in San Diego. The Ghio family owned a string of seafood restaurants.My wife worked in the commissary and cleaned the fish that the fishermen would bring in very early in the morning. The crew that did the work were all Mexican(mostly women), three Italian men(recently just off the boat),and the lead man who was born in Mexico. The lead man's name was Pedro and he lived in a trailer park with his wife and two kids in San Ysidro just up the street were I was teaching at the high school.The school was a mile from the border. 90 % of the kids were Mexican and all the kids would speak Spanish when they weren't talking to a teacher and to tell the truth I sometimes thought I was in Tijuana.

The Anglo teachers had a hard time dealing with it because they never went to Tijuana and didn't want to learn Spanish and they spent half the day unintentionally and intentionally insulting their students. They wanted the students to assimilate into ACTING like Americans under the condition that the students wouldn't knock on their doors wanting to take their daughters out on a date.

Well, I want to get back to this guy Pedro who was the lead man at the commissary.(on Saturdays he sold furniture at a furniture store) Pedro's son went to the school where I was at and the kid was OK. Good student.Played on the baseball team. And never got in trouble.Pedro asked me to write a letter of recommendation so his wife could become a U.S. citizen .No problem. Pedro was a stand up guy.Soft spoken.The breadwinner.He also demanded that his kids get an education.That was the main reason for coming to the U.S.

His son Pedro Jr. once told me that his father told him that he never went to school in Mexico because he had to help his mother and siblings and go to work so they wouldn't starve to death. Pedro's old man took a powder so Pedro was the man of the house.His son told me that his father couldn't help him with his homework because he never had a formal education but if he let his grades slip he'd beat him with a strap,( Sometimes he'd beat him anyway) Pedro Jr, would have to bring in a progress report every week on all his classes to show his father.Pedro Jr. graduated at the top of his class. Earned a scholarship to med school. He was the first Mexican heart surgeon at Grossmont Hospital here in San Diego.(BTW:Pedro's daughter is a school teacher in the Sweetwater Union High School District)

OK. I set that up. Now to get to that fight I was talking about in the first paragraph. One day when I went t pick up my wife from work Pedro came outside and asked me if I was going to watch the fight.I told him that I was and to if he wanted to come over to watch it was OK with me. My wife would lay out a spread and it would be a good evening.

Pedro came over with his son and a six pack of Corona.It wasn't much of a fight. Camacho looked like he didn't want any part of Chavez. Chavez had the bigger juevos and Mexico was satisfied.

As Pedro and his son left I got to thinking about all this "macho" stuff. Now here's Chavez who can't be denied being a macho man ,but the real macho mean ,or at lest the equal, is a guy like Pedro. .Hard working.Looking out for his family. Exerting discipline and showing love.He didn't have to beat up anybody in a boxing ring. You'd never know it by just looking at the guy.


"Macho" Camacho

[dagosd2000]

Dagosd2000:

Getting back to the subject of Ken Norton - which you've had a lot to say - do you think he could have beaten Anthony Joshua? Me personally, I think AJ would have run Kenny over, just like the Foreman, Shavers, and Cooney debacles.

Norton never fared well against devastating punchers who could back him up. I remember reading that the way he planted his back foot (as if it's in a bucket), meant he was a stationary target for hulking, big bombers.

I'm surprised there are lots of people on this board who believe Norton would have beaten AJ. Size makes all the difference, here, IMO.

It's a question of heart and who had the bigger one.Foreman ,Quarry ,and Cooney could have run over Joshua too. Norton went toe to toe with a very good Larry Holmes. Joshua would have got a beat down from Larry.

[dagosd2000]

When A Candy Bar Was A dime And Boxing Was Priceless.

For me it's interesting reading the thread about "What was the first fight you saw on live TV?" I think the farthest back one I saw was Chuvalo and Foley in 1964. A lot of the responses are more recent:Ali/Frazier I,( lots of Ali's post retirement fights),Mancini/KIm,Tyson/Berbick,Eubank/Benn-some typical examples.

I know I'm older than a lot of you guys but I don't want you to feel that I'm one upping you when I say I saw Marciano KO Louis in 1951. My father took me down to the poolroom where they showed the fight on a TV about the size of my wallet.That fight was televised in bars and places like pool halls,not on sets in the living room.

It might seem that I want to have an advantage on my fellow posters ,and in a way I do,but not to to claim any fame but to pass on what that era was like. I've said it before:boxing was better then.but that's not to say that you have to hold John L. Sullivan's jockstrap to make that claim. It's really pretty simple to put together.There was a time when boxing could stand shoulder to shoulder with major league baseball,pro football,and the NBA.

But then post war moms and dads were living the better life,at least a hell of a lot better than before the war. Families were moving to the suburbs. Little League baseball was taking off.Pop Warner Football was sprouting its wings. Basketball courts were displacing the boxing gyms in the inner cities.MIckey mantle and Willie Mays were pushing Floyd Patterson to the second page of the sports section.

With those evaporating boxing gyms went the fighters,trainers,and managers. Oh,it wasn't a speedy disappearance but looking at what's out there today it's like the trying to find a silver back gorilla. So how can you have a depth of quality fighters when there are so few top notch trainers and no place to train?

So when I read these posts about how for example Deontay Wilder would tear off Marciano's head, I scratch mine. Just because he's tall and got muscles and tips the scales at 230 pounds doesn't equate that he's necessarily a good fighter.Yeah,he's good for what they put they put in front oh him today but the skill levels of fighters today don't match with the past generation.

Today it's hand speed. But it's easy to throw your hands fast when your feet are planted in cement.Fighters today take a wide stance and face each other trying to get one in. But co ordinating foot movement with the hands is the most difficult element in boxing. it takes years to develop it.

I remember when Tommy Morrison said that he would have loved to get in the ring with Marciano because he was so "small." Then Michael Bentt takes him out in one round.You tell me your dream and I'll tell you mine.


Rocky Marciano

[dagosd2000]

The Toy Department

There is no country in the world like the United States that is so consumed by sports,whether watching it or participating. I guess it's better to participate.At least you're doing something,exercising if northing else. But to see all the people huddled at the various watering holes to the loner who sits glued to the set flipping the channels from one game to another swigging beer makes me think why.

Some are fanatics,others are indulged for a social gathering,and for some it's a conduit to get drunk.But it's the team sports that bring in the crowds.Here for example in San Diego,the major league Padres, when they were granted a place in the big leagues,the attendance at the ballpark was lucky to seat a few thousand in the stands at the start. The first year for the club was 1969.They didn't reach their first million gate until 1975. Now granted the team has mostly stunk and I can understand the low attendance,but in recent years with the advent of Covid and the economy in the tank and the team still stinking up the joint the Padres had the third highest attendance in the majors.

Back in the early days you could sit in the bleachers for a buck and a half and parking was a dollar. Today,nosebleed seats, depending on the game,(if it's a team like the lousy KC Royals you're looking at around 30 dollars a head.But if it's the rival Dodgers that same seat will tap your wallet for 60 smackers).You can give the data on inflation and how people today make more money,but I lived cozier back then when I was pulling in a lot less dough.

Ok,now to factor in boxing. I saw Ali fight Norton in San Diego sitting in the rafters at the Sports Arena for ten dollars. Today ,if Tyson Fury was to fight in San Diego(Would that be a stretch)I'd have to take out a loan if I wanted to see his shenanigans.

I heard once some talk show guy on the radio say that "Sports" is in the toy section of the department store. He's got it right as far as I'm concerned.Those jocks don't pay my rent. And now they act like they're something special. But I blame the people who shell out their rent money to propagate the situation. It brings out the pundits on the tube who all day long give you their two cents.

But wait a minute. I heard someone say,"How come you write everyday on the forum?" Do I like boxing that much? No. But I like to write. I've been here too long to jump somewhere else. Of all the cerebral factors involved in a sport boxing is the most intriguing.But like I said,I like to wrire.Maybe it has a lot to do with my psyche too.It sure beats going to a shrink everyday and paying 500 bucks to have him ask me if I loved my mother or planting my ass in some taproom destroying my liver.

[dagosd2000]

Looking Back At A Stranger

Oh there was a time though that I liked boxing(I still do a little).I could say even that I loved boxing.Boxing was my favorite sport to watch..It was my favorite sport to watch on TV.And in person there was no other sport like it.A fight crowd is like no other.They came to see blood and and are revved up to provide their animation.

I once thought of being a fighter in the ring.But the realities sobered my aspirations.I didn't get into a boxing ring until I was 23 years old. I had had my share of rumbles on the playgrounds and dirt lots but that kind of battle was different. They usually didn't last long, and though there weren't any rules both combatants, crude with their attacks, didn't pull any chicken s--t stuff. No kicking a man when he was down so to speak. Never any weapons,You might have your friends watching but they never jumped in. When it was over there weren't any grudges.I mean you weren't going to buy the guy you fought any Christmas presents but there wasn't a vindictiveness.I often would see guys that I had a fight with later and we wound up friends. Boys will be boys and grow into men from the experience.

I mentioned I had never tried out boxing in the ring until I was 23. There were rules and that required skills if you were to become successful. Watching boxing on TV might seem easy(anyone could pick that up)but to do it in the ring was the most difficult of an undertaking. Just holding up your hands for starters for 3 minutes was impossible. Add all those "skills" and I realized it would take to master a long time and plenty of drive.

I've gone over some about sparring with some of the fellas at the gym.Sparring is nothing compared to the real thing.You can practice but practice doesn't put your foot on the gas. But being a novice and working out with some of these fellas afterwards I'd go home with a headache. "Nuff said. Boxing wasn't for me. I just didn't have it in me.

With all that said though that didn't sour me on the sport. Most fighters wind up broke or punchy or both. They have little protection outside the ring and if they can't defend themselves inside they are an accident waiting to happen. There's no pension fund for these guys, and there never will be.The promoters are pimps even if they don't know it. Managers are scraping to make ends meet. You ever know what they are up to. The fighters are out on a limb. If they wind up penniless or sick or both they're on their own. All their fair weather friends have left them to fend for themselves. A fighter is lucky if he has a wife to look out for him.

Now don't start giving me the exceptions to all this.There are always exceptions. Some ex pugs say if they had to do it all over again they wouldn't change a thing. Maybe they are trying to convince themselves.

I look back on my life and the older I get the scarier the view. "Who is that guy?" I ask myself. I sure was crazy. As for boxing,to tell the truth when I'm flipping the channels looking for some sports action and I see a fight with two fighters whose names I can't pronounce because they have no vowels, I pass.

Hey,I read where they had a soccer game over the weekend at the Rose Bowl in LA between Chivas and Club America and the crowd drew over 86 thousand. And in India there was a cricket game between India and Pakistan that drew in over 130 thousand.They say that those cricket games can last weeks. And I think I'm crazy.

[dagosd2000]

Three Motherpluckers

I never heard Archie Moore play the string bass.he sure liked to talk jazz with me,fighting was something he talked with other fighters mostly.He loved jazz.He was thinking of hanging up the gloves and being a jazz musician at one time,a string bass player. he even went on the road a played a few gigs with Lucky Thompson ,the tenor man,who had his own group.But you've heard of that expression "starving musicians"? Well before The Mongoose was to give up eating he turned in his axe and returned to the ring.

Moore's buddy and a guy he could never beat in the ring,Ezzard Charles also fashioned himself as a jazz string bass player. Never heard him play either.Archie and Ezzard would cruise 52nd Street in new York at hit all the clubs hoping one of the cats like Bird or Dizzy would let them sit in for a set. It wasn't a problem.

Jack Johnson was another upright bass plucker.When he opened hid club on the southside in Chicago he would play the rhythm on his instrument behind the house band.

There's no recording out there of any of these champions sitting in with any of their jazz idols making music. I'll go out on a limb nd say they were probably not that good. Charlie Mingus or Ray Brown had nothing to worry about. All three stuck to fighting. They were good at that.


I guess Charlie Parker was nice enough to let Ezzard Charles sit in one night.Even had a chair named after him.Somewhere on 52nd Street



Herbie Mann at The village Gate New York. Some nice bass work on this around 1960.

[dagosd2000]

The Introduction

When Muhammad Ali was riding the crest of the wave,a symbol of the counter culture,admired by the rebel youth and underdog,the most recognized face on the planet,ol' Archie Moore just seemed to be aging in that old rocking chair blues. But that view was coming from the U.S. along with societies that had found a new hero,Ali.,someone who spoke for them the guy kicked to the curb and the in crowd that wanted to be more "in." Where I was in San Diego at the time all I had to do is take a spin down south across the border to Mexico to see that perception of Ali skewed,or maybe I should say screwed.

They never made a big fuss about The Greatest in Mexico. With Mexico's Z generation (if you want to call it that)they might put in a kind word but to get all sentimental over the guy you can forget it. They have heard of the name that's all. He was a big talker. Tada,yada,yada. The louder you want to impress with your mouth the farther away you get ignored. Ali was into himself.Mexico wasn't into him.

But Mexico was into Archie Moore.Archie showed,humility. manners.Archie talked a lot but his tone had a reverent quality. Archie saw people and what they were.Ali saw himself,but that style was a turn off. Oh,Ali had plenty of love to share and it was sincere, but he loved himself too much. At least that's how they saw it across the border. Here people laughed with him.There,at him.

I told you the time I went to see Ruben Olivares,"El Puas" that blade they tie to the fighting roosters talons so that his strikes slash and tear.Olivares, before there was Chavez or Canelo. He was Mexico's best of all time. They had to put that fight in the bullring because it was the biggest venue. He was to fight some no name Japanese fighter but he could have fought Cio-Cio-san and it wouldn't have mattered.As long as Olivares slashed and tore.

Well, I'm sitting there feeling the excitement building.The fighters are in their corners waiting for the referee to bring them to ring center when the PA announcer shouts out to the throng that Archie Moore is with us and if he would please enter the ring. Like an eruption from Vesuvius the crowd rose like a thunder,standing applauding and cheering as the old guy deliberately climbed through the ropes, and then walking to ring corners waving and smiling and blowing kisses to the sky.The pandemonium didn't let up even when The Mongoose had returned to his seat.

When the announcer introduced Olivares he got a good hand but I didn't see anyone standing. An introduction paints a thousand pictures.


Archie Moore

[dagosd2000]

Blending In

I tried to avoid waiting in line to buy a ticket to the fights in Tijuana by going to the promoter's place and purchase a ducat beforehand. The big time promoter in Tijuana was a roly poly guy named Ignacio Huizar. Someone told me he still has a finger in it but the way boxing is going in Tijuana there isn't much movement.

Anyway, I'd go to his place,his headquarters,office,whatever he thought of it, that was a little hole in the wall tacito joint on Aguas Caliente Boulevard heading out to the racetrack.I remember when someone gave me the directions and I couldn't find it at first. I drove up and down until I finally had to park the car and ask someone.Asking for directions in Mexico can be a hassle especially if you only have a street address. Most numbers aren't on street signs nor on the buildings. You have to go by landmarks.
"Go to the big church and then turn left until you get to the park and then you'll see a school and it's behind it."
That's a typical example.

Well,I finally found where Ignacio Huizar's taco joint was and I can tell you this place wasn't turning a profit. Small,dark,and dingy ;a few chairs at an empty counter. No one inside.It was all a front.Some guy came out from the back and I asked him about buying a ticket to the fight. there wasn't any problem. I bought a ticket and left.

But I got to thinking. This is how it's done in Mexico. A big shot like Huizar operating out of such an ordinary environment. The government is the same way. I remember when that corrupt PRI party (they're all bad)that was in control of the country after the revolution for over 60 years.Their honchos were fixed good. They were rolling in money but they didn't want the people thinking that they were THAT rich.Nothing ostentatious. They didn't dress to the nines.They drove Fords. The lived in all right neighborhoods, but the houses were something along the lines of middle class Mexico. They may have had a dig in a high scale neighborhood or in a foreign country but they wanted to show the people that they were like them-average.In every colonia they'd have an office with the PRI emblem on the wall but the office blended in with the second hand store next to it. It was all a front,a facade.And the people knew it.

Ignacio Huizar would sometimes have something going on in San Diego. I saw Jose Napoles fight Adolfo Pruitt on the close circuit big screen at the Sport Arena.Huizar took a bath on that one.The crowd was small.But there he was tailored in a fancy suit with some blonde on his arm.

I guess he wanted to show the gringos he was a cut above the average.No eating tacos at the snack bar.


Tacos El Gordo in Tijuana.

[dagosd2000]

Either Comin' Or Goin'

San Diego, in a way, was like a footnote in boxing circles during the late 60's through the 70's and early 80's. The big venues for the big fights in the Southland were up in LA and in Tijuana. San Diego,in the middle, was a combination starting point and dumping ground.

Fighters like Ken Norton,Art Hafey,and Ronnie Wilson launched careers in San Diego, mainly proving their mettle at the old San Diego Coliseum, thus earning bigger fights for bigger purses in Los Angeles and back east or out of the country.

Then there were fighters who were on their way out,battlers who had perhaps wore the championship belt, but now they were long in the tooth and hard up for cash. Names like Denny Moyer,Bobby Chacon,and the San Diego's former knight in shining armor, Ronnie Wilson.

There was never a fight broadcast live from the old Coliseum. The only fights that I can remember that were on the tube was Norton's encounter with Muhammad Ali and Matthew Saad Muhammad's title defense against Lotte Mwale. Both contests were staged at The San Diego Sports Arena.

Terry Norris' beginnings were in San Diego but when he started to go south he didn't return to "America' Finest city." I guess it really doesn't matter where the bone heap is.I remember in the end when Ronnie Wilson was taking a shellacking here. It wasn't fun to watch. Just as well if he'd gone to Timbuktu to wrap things up. At least I couldn't see it.


Terry Norris

[dagosd2000]

A Match Not Quite Made In Heaven.

MIckey Davies,the matchmaker for Aileen Eaton at The Olympic Auditorium and later worked for George Parnassas at The Forum,also put together cards for the backers here in San Diego,most of the bouts staged at the San Diego Coliseum.

I first remember Davies doing the fight broadcasts at The Olympic in the beginning alongside a fledgling Dick Enberg.Enberg never felt comfortable it seemed to me.He later said that he feared that someone would die in the ring and that Aileen Eaton would make him break out sweating. He lasted a year. Boxing wasn't his bag. Asked by Davies during his last broadcast which fighter caught his eye the most Enberg replied,"Manny Lugo." Lugo was a four round prelim guy who was one of the lousiest fighters to ever laced up the gloves. A miniature Ray "Windmill" White,Lugo sometimes would throw punches with both hands simultaneously. He got a laugh that's all. Davies was kind of taken aback by Enberg's response considering he'd witnessed fighters like Jerry Quarry and Mando Ramos in action. I don't think Davies missed Enberg's departure.

One night I was by myself at The Coliseum in San Diego taking in the action.The crowd was small that night. Eddie Mazon was fighting in the main event.Mazon was a local fighter who bounced around from welter to middleweight.He had skills but never excelled at any of them. He gave it his all but he lacked a punch. Between The Coliseum and The Silver Slipper in Las Vegas was where you could see Eddie ply his trade mostly.

Well,like I was saying I'm there by my lonesome sitting ringside when who plops next to me but Mickey Davies. Before the start of the main I asked him how things were going. Let Mickey tell it.

"You know I've never had a card go off as planned. There's always something that comes up. Usually it's in the prelims. I've heard every excuse in the world why a fighter doesn't show up. He flunks the the drug test. He can't get here from wherever he's coming from. He wants more money. He's in jail. One fighter got into a knife fight with his own brother. The guy who was supposed to fight for me wound up in the hospital."

I then asked him who didn't show up for tonight's card.
"One of the guys in the four rounder just never showed.No phone call.Nothing."

There was a law back then set up by the commission that if the card didn't have a sufficient number of rounds the fans could get their money back.That happened a few times when I went. But there wasn't a rush to the ticket window to get the refund until the fights were over.Me included in the stampede .


The very popular Jimmy Lennon. Ring announcer for all the big fights in Los Angeles.

[dagosd2000]

A Tale Of Two Cities

Looking back on the history of boxing you can't think of any other burg to rival the importance of New York City. Think of the staples ,a diet of Benny Leonard Dempsey,Louis,Robinson, Armstrong,Pep Graziano,LaMotta,Basilio,Ali,Duran-if I continued namedropping my fingers would cramp up. The three Madison Square Gardens of course were the showcase arenas.Then there were the ballparks,Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds for the really big shows. Want to write a history of boxing?If you left out what had happened in The Apple you'd wind up with seeds. No one can dislodge its place.No one can' refute the record.

But there was a space,Let's put it between the mid 60's through the mid 80's that Los Angeles was the hotspot for the week in week out grind for the Sweet Science.It maybe wasn't a long run but it was a very fast sprint.

I know the "purists,the traditional pundits ,whose tone of voice sounded like Johnny Addie, would argue my claim saying maybe that Southland boxing had its moments but that time was a split second when compared to New York.

But I'm talking about that 60's through 80's window. Only 20 years but what a double decade it was. With the bigger media in New York,and the fatter heads,the scribes will say middleweights on up of quality fought in New York. The little guys were left to sort things out in LA. If you were Mexican and weighed 118 pounds and possessed a left hook worth mentioning you probably took your lumps at The Olympic Auditorium.

But LA had weekly cards.They had the fights on TV. There was a local contingent of fighters who LIVED in the city.You didn't have to wait around.There was plenty of talent waiting their turn. The caliber was deeper than New York's and the fighters drove their cars from the barrio to the arenas. They didn't have to be flown in.

TIme for a list of names:Carlos Palomino,Armando Muniz,Mando Ramos, The Ruelas brothers,the Albertos Sandoval and Davila,Frankie Duarte,Frankie Crawford,Danny Lopez,Frankie Crawford,Gato Gonzalez,Hedge Lewis, bros Danny and Ernie Lopez,Raul Rojas, Lopez,Ruben Navarro,Dwight Hawkins,Greg Haugen.Throw in all the Mexican nationals who crossed the border and I'll have to reach for a Tylenol.

New York couldn't match this.It was a big jerk like the Fight Of The Century, and then quiet. But then a lot of those New York boys came out to the Coast to try their luck. Floyd Patterson and Emile Griffith come to mind.

OK.I'm off my soapbox. Did I mention Ken Norton and Jerry Quarry?


Hedgemon Lewis

[dagosd2000]

A Loss To Remember

If ol' Henery Cooper would have dropped Cassius Clay at the beginning of that fateful round instead of at the tail end?
I never saw Clay/Ali get taken down by a single punch that unraveled him like the one Cooper clipped him with. Doug Jones got one in on him. Joe Frazier put him on the seat of his pants.Wepner? Make me laugh. All single shots. But Coops' caliber packed the most powder.

Henry Cooper's left hook was not so much a punch that started off low and then swept up but a swing that when delivered began higher and then arced down. It was a triphammer blow, and when it landed on The Greatest's jaw he fell like someone had pulled the rug out from under him.

There were some anxious moments in the corner.They talk about the slit in that glove that crafty Angelo Dundee tugged on to make it slittier, but that's an old wives tale. The plan for the ensuing round was simple,:Pepper Cooper's face with shots.The blood would start to pour out like a tipped pint of Guinness. Instead of giving Cooper a transfusion in the ring the referee stopped the fight,Like the gentleman Englishman he protested but his arguments were laced with The Marquess Of Queensberry like a proper gentleman.(What ruddy luck)

I always liked Henry Cooper. I'm surprised a lot of you Brits don't bring up his besting of Jose Urtain for the European Heavyweight Championship. The Basque was undefeated knocking out every bloke he fought before he faced Cooper. But Cooper was too smart for him. Jose offered his face and before it was over he had lost face by Cooper goring him like a Manolete in the bullring.

Jolly good show.


Henry Cooper. Only British fighter to be knighted by the Queen. Cracking

[dagosd2000]

Henry Cooper.Here not overripe.Still dishy ( I looked that up.I hope I' didn't insult the guy calling him "dishy" Here in the U.S. if you called a guy "dishy" ...well I guess it would depend on the guy))

[dagosd2000]

Jake LaMotta As Art

Shakespeare wrote about the rise and fall of kings. The movie Raging Bull was written about the ascent and descent of a prizefighter. By the time Raging Bull was ready for the cinema, between the screenwriters,the producers,the actors and the director Martin Scorsese, you could conclude it was a joint effort with a lot of trading of punches.some below the belt. The final product however is a masterpiece. Who knows? Maybe if they had prizefighting in Shakespeare's day the Shake might have penned a play about the Sweet Science. Willie died in 1616.James Figg is recognized as prizefighting's first champion. in the early 1700's. So Jimmy and Willie missed connecting. But then Jimmy was a mere pug.He might have worn a crown but it was never bestowed on his head by the Archbishop Of Canterbury.

But with all that said I put Raging Bull ,the movie, right alongside, King Lear. Lear's demise was self inflicted by his narcissism and his inability to see his own flaws. Jake's tumble was caused by the same traits and Sugar Ray Robinson. Lear was a Shakespearean tragedy because he was a king. Jake just a f--k up.

Now Shakespeare didn't use the word "f--k".They probably hadn't invented the word then. Raging Bull,the movie,still holds the record for having used the word "f--k". Since Martin Scorsese wanted the actors to adlib mostly, I guess they thought "f--k" was apropos,came natural.

Al Silvani,who was one of LaMotta's trainers and brought in to be an advisor with Raging Bull, complained to Scorsese about why the movie had so many bad words. Scorsese passed it off to "poetic license." Shakespeare alluded to vulgarity. Raging Bull is more blunt.

But now we're talking about something more along what Scorsese saw growing up in the dago neighborhood. People talked like that. The cussing enhanced the point. But there's fine line between making it(cussing) work and having it fall flat on its face. Around your mother you got to watch it. On the street it's part of the genre.

Watching Raging Bull I get a kick about how natural the dialogue flows,dirty words and all. Scorsese is considered a great director. Maybe he is, and I say "maybe" because when he strays from the Italian stuff he's a little out of step. But then when he directs all those Italians in those movies about Italians it's not really much of a stretch.That's because all Italians, especially southern Italians, are living there lives like they are on the stage.They are not really acting but it seems like they are. I mean he let's them adlib. So what's the big deal?

Shakespeare said "All the world's a stage." Willie never visited Italy.Too bad.He would have seen it first hand.


Robert DeNiro "acting" like Jake LaMotta


Intermezzo from Cavellerria Rusticana used in Raging Bull."F--king awesome.

[scartissue]

Roger, WHERE ARE YOU?

[scartissue]

Fight fans of classic American west coast boxing, I have some sad news. I just received word from Randy de la O, one of our original members of west coast boxing, that Roger Esty, better known to you as Dagos, has passed away. I have been lucky enough to have met Roger on numerous occasions. Attending events with the world boxing hall of fame and the west coast boxing hall of fame, there were few people that loved the sport more than Roger. Aside from his passion for painting, writing, his love of family, his wit, he was also a great friend and great conversationalist. Randy told me he passed on October 23rd, yet, his last post was dated October 24th. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say, as St. Peter was sorting him out with paperwork, that Roger got off one more post under the table. On behalf of Randy, Rick Farris, Brian Higgins and so many that stopped in here to hear Roger’s stories, it’s been a pleasure knowing you Rog.

You can relax now Roger, the bell just rang.

[goose 5]

I really enjoyed reading what Roger posted over the years; condolences to his family.

[Chuck1052]

I am sorry to learn that Roger Esty has passed away. It is my hope that Roger's family accept my condolences.

- Chuck Johnston