Jack Dempsey vs Jack Johnson, Did it happen?

[HomicideHenry]

I think we as a forum, should really take this rumored fight as a serious matter. We need to find dates, we need to see if Johnson would have been in Canada in the time that was represented as well as Dempsey---the evidence that we do have is an old BOXING ILLUSTRATED magazine article that briefly brought this up in the 80's, an old clipping on sale on Ebay and the word of Dempsey's illegitimate son and an friend/reporter of Dempsey's.

And we need to find out if this was just an exhibition or an actual bout. Myself, exhibition or not, this would have been a big deal, irregardless if Johnson was into his 40's or not. Though this fight would have had the same significance (in terms of the outcome and at what stage these men's careers were in) as the Johnson-Jefferies fight, it's still boxing's most hated and controversial HW champion to date vs Jack Dempsey, who really needs no introduction.

This is a big deal, and while it may or may not elevate either man's ranking, if it did happen, it needs to officially go down in the books.

[Grant]

I think some of us are looking at this from the wrong perspective. It wasn't about whether Johnson deserved a shot at the title but more so some rich bored financiers settling a personal arguement of 'what if'.
And the fact that a Black man can take a beating to win a bet made it even more appealing.
I believe it could have happen as Dempsey was first and foremost a 'prize fighter'
He was possibly embarassed by it later in life for taking advantage of a man passed his prime for the sake of earning some cash. Anyway thats what I think.
(It would make a great movie though!)

[UpWithEvil]

So, who's gonna find us a transcript of that newspaper article from the Brooklyn Eagle? Hmmmm????

[HomicideHenry]

I think might have hit it on the head, so to speak. You have to realize that back in the day of not so squeamish referees, 20 to 45 round fights, extensive training and the most daunting of fight schedules---someone who hit 30 years of age or slightly more was considered ancient. A forty something year old ex champion, no matter how successful, would have been considered a living fossil of sorts---who knows, maybe the fight was dismissed and forbidden to ever happen in the USA, even though Johnson had challenged Dempsey at 42 (this supposedly happened when Johnson would have been 43), and some high rollers up in Canada heard wind of this and thought to themselves:

"Jack Johnson, the greatest of all time (up until Ali, many considered Johnson to be the greatest), now 42, still fighting and racking up victories, against the current HW champion of the world. WHy not? The most hated and controversial champion in history versus the highest paid athlete in the world (Dempsey). It's a given that this will be huge money. And besides, wouldn't it be nice to see the person get licked again?"

While that was probably not ever said, I am sure some of that was the motive: money, the almighty agrument of 'who was the greatest?' and of course not only the significance, but the sheer idea of possibly seeing Jack Johnson get what he done to Jim Jefferies, when he was fat, old and washed up.

What Dempsey didn't expect was that this 'little exhibition' out in the Great White North was being taken very seriously by the 43 year old Jack Johnson, who actually gave Dempsey some trouble (mind you Dempsey hadn't defended the HW title in over three years) knocking him down in the 5th, Dempsey gets pissed and thrashes Johnson in the 7th.

This has all the makings of a great Hollywood movie, if anything, it's almost on the level of the 1969 'SuperFight' with Ali and Marciano, except it's the tactician (Johnson) who is the old guy and it's the champion (same as Ali with being inactive for over 3 years) Dempsey. The roles have been all but reversed.

As far as the newspaper article, the ONLY way it could ever be proven, or at least be proven to have been written that something between the two men occured, is to look through public library records, town records, etc of Saskatoon when this event supposedly taken place.

So for any Canadian BoxRec members, it would be a just service if someone took it upon themselves to try and be a MythBuster on this age old story of "The Manassa Mauler" against "The Blast From The Past" in Jack Johnson.

[Crease]

If they did fight, I would very much like to have seen it...

BUT NO, I don't believe it actually happened...

PLUS, Dempsey winning by a round 7 KO sound slike the stuff of fansty to me, alright...

[HomicideHenry]

a knockout in 7 rounds against an old, old Jack Johnson is nothing impossible Crease hardly the stuff worth being called a fantasy.

[marktaha]

Is there any evidence that Johnson - Price happened outside Price's imagination - he aimed it was 19 minutes in a cellar?

[Cap]

I recall correspondence many moons ago with Lew Eskin, editor of Boxing Illustrated in which he said he'd looked into this fable back in the late 70s and could find absolutely nothing to support it. Back then there were still people alive who could have had first hand knowledge. This was likely a fantasy dreamt up by some Dempsey fan and there was a lot of that then with all the talk of "computer" tournaments and the like.

[klompton]

Are people really taking this seriously??? Jesus. Thos has been debunked a million times. The boxing illustrated article was an april fools joke using an old article about a fantasy fight as its basis with the date and premise cut off.