Missing Records

[RobotBoy]

I recently watched a fight between the young James Toney and a Brazilian by the name of Carlos Silva (Jose Carlos Da Silva). According to the announcers[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tMdl6uDDGQ], Silva was a 'South American Champion' with a record of 16-3, 16-4 after the loss to Toney. BoxRec, however, lists this fight as Silva's debut.
I'm curious as to what sort of confirmation of his record would be necessary to change Silva's record. Is the information from the broadcast sufficient? A Boxrec note on Silva's next fight reads: ' Silva reportedly entered with a record of 14-8-3.'
To make matters even more confusing, there was another Jose Carlos Da Silva active at the same time. This Silva was a Brazilian middleweight champion and also fought outside of Brazil, including with Gerald McClellan and Chris Eubank. At first I thought they had to be the same fighter, but the second Da Silva is listed as a southpaw.
An unrelated tidbit: the second Silva's fight with one Angel Amarilla Garcia includes this Boxrec note: 'the dispute between them ran normally until the third round. Amarilla, dissatisfied with the performance of the referee, argued with him and punched him in the face. who ended up being disqualified.'
(Grammar needs to be cleaned there).

[wouter]

The Carlos Silva that fought Toney was a different fighter than Jose Carlos da Silva, going by fight films. While Carlos Silva's record is most likely incomplete, you also have to realize that many 'unknown' foreign fighters were introduced in the U.S. with false credentials: the 16-4 record is of course incompatible with a 14-8-3 mark in a later fight.

[RobotBoy]

Wouter,
Thanks for writing and for the information.
Perhaps my post was confusing but I do state that Carlos Silva's full name was, in fact, 'Jose Carlos da Silva' and that he was clearly not the other Brazilian Jose Carlos da Silva, who was a southpaw.
I am indeed aware that records from South America are often falsified or otherwise inaccurate (heck, the U.S. isn't completely innocent on this account). For example, in his 18th pro fight, Toney faced a 'Jose Luis Esteven' from Venezuela. According to the record, it was only Esteven's second pro fight. Clearly it was not.
In any case, I'm still curious as to what qualifies as a legitimate source for records of fighters outside the U.S. Countries like Brazil and Venezuela must have boxing commissions that keep records. Those records are also probably often inaccurate. So how does Boxrec decide which records to accept as legitimate?
Thank you

[John]

Countries like Brazil and Venezuela must have boxing commissions that keep records. Those records are also probably often inaccurate. So how does Boxrec decide which records to accept as legitimate?
Thank you

It is a nightmare but we try to do due diligence. One thing that helps is that we have been around for a long time so have established contacts in many countries who attend events / know the fighters and inform us when an event actually took place in reality or just in the imagination of the promoter / commission.

[RobotBoy]

John,
I happened to be doing research on Henry 'The Loveable One' Hearns when I saw that he'd had a fight with the Romanian prospect Mircea Simon. Which led me to Simon's page on BoxRec. As it happens, Simon's KO of Hearns doesn't appear. The last fight you do have listed for Simon was immediately prior to his fight with Hearns. Simon's opponent was Leroy Caldwell. BoxRec lists that fight as a draw but the article says it was Simon loss.
Here's a link for confirmation: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/sho ... 233&page=7
The article also includes some details about Simon, who I guess had some buzz at the time for winning silver in the Olympics. Simon had the misfortune of facing Teofilo Stevenson in the gold-medal final and was stopped in the third.
Fortunately, the article lists all of Simon's fights:
Mircea Simon
Professional record: 13-1-1 (11)
· 5 JUN 1980 TKO1 Henry Hearns 6-2 (4) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 27 SEP 1979 L10 Leroy Caldwell 21-20-4 (6) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 30 AUG 1979 KO4 Charlie Johnson 15-4 (10) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 26 JUL 1979 KO2 Koroseta Kid 14-8 (14) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 14 JUN 1979 KO3 Tony Pulu 19-8-1 (10) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 26 APR 1979 KO2 Beau Williford 1-2 (1) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 1 MAR 1979 D10 Eddie Lopez 12-2 (8) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 1 FEB 1979 KO2 James Dixon 9-11-1 (3) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 26 OCT 1978 TKO2 Oliver Philipps 3-3 (0) Forum; Inglewood, CA
· 15 SEP 1978 KO1 David Wynne 8-2-1 (6) Superdome; New Orleans, LA
· 27 JUL 1978 KO2 Mark Junior 10-7-1 (3) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 15 JUN 1978 KO6 Dan Johnson 4-14 (1) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 18 MAY 1978 W8 Bob Swoopes 0-4 (0) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 4 MAY 1978 KO1 Rocky Jones 3-3-1 (1) Olympic Auditorium; Los Angeles, CA
· 18 MAR 1978 W6 Rocky Jones 3-1-1 (1) The Aladdin; Las Vegas, NV
I hope this is useful.

[wouter]

If you go to page 1 of your link, you'll see that these are all part of a fictional 1980 timeline. The Simon vs. Hearns bout is part of the June 1980 fight results, which also includes fantasy wins for George Foreman, Joe Frazier etc etc.

[margaret thatcher]

love ya man but gotta admit that's pretty funny

[Controversial]

Here's a link for confirmation: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/sho ... 233&page=7

ootpdevelopments are the people who make sport simulator games so they are computer generated results, the link you posted is on their forum discussing various fantasy fights. The boxing sim was called Title Bout and there is a part of the boxrec forum where people played it. I think ootpd stopped supporting the boxing sim though.

viewforum.php?f=17 (boxrec forum)

http://www.titleboutboxing.com/cgi-bin/page?game

[RobotBoy]

That's insane. Thanks for picking up on it.
I'm also thinking that is going to be the future, if it isn't already. 'You mean that Napoleon wasn't the first man on the moon? But I read it on the internet!'