interesting james degale inteview (ADHD)

[Alba]

Looks like some folk are rewriting history..Degale was an arrogant, obnoxious twat.

[coneye]

Looks like some folk are rewriting history..Degale was an arrogant, obnoxious twat.

Well thats one way to put things

[tonyevs]

We will all have traits of various conditions such as ASD or ADHD .. it's very normal. But it's when those traits are problematic and negatively impacting on how a person functions in their day to day life that help is sought.

There is a window of opportunity for all of us in our early years to be almost anything we want to be (I truly believe that).
'Education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today'.

So if for whatever reason, be it bio/psycho/social, a child is unable to participate in education on a similar level playing field as others then meds may be the best initial way of helping.
Maybe when they are at a level of maturity and calmness they can engage in therapies such as CBT and cease meds all together .. but sometimes there is a need for meds to calm things to open alternative options.

Adults seeking a diagnosis may be doing so for lots of reasons. Unfortunately there will always be some who do so for financial or some other less than legit reason. Years ago it was a bad back or depression.

But I always assume a humanist approach and like to think most will be seeking it to enable themselves to improve their lives some how.

[SeanBrennan]

We will all have traits of various conditions such as ASD or ADHD .. it's very normal. But it's when those traits are problematic and negatively impacting on how a person functions in their day to day life that help is sought.

There is a window of opportunity for all of us in our early years to be almost anything we want to be (I truly believe that).
'Education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today'.

So if for whatever reason, be it bio/psycho/social, a child is unable to participate in education on a similar level playing field as others then meds may be the best initial way of helping.
Maybe when they are at a level of maturity and calmness they can engage in therapies such as CBT and cease meds all together .. but sometimes there is a need for meds to calm things to open alternative options.

Adults seeking a diagnosis may be doing so for lots of reasons. Unfortunately there will always be some who do so for financial or some other less than legit reason. Years ago it was a bad back or depression.

But I always assume a humanist approach and like to think most will be seeking it to enable themselves to improve their lives some how.

A really informed and intelligent post. Ban this man!

[Lenny Cravats]

It's not easy to get a diagnosis for ADHD.

My wife has ADHD, as does my son (though he's more ASD).
Cost a fortune for a diagnosis.

[tonyevs]

Thanks Sean - but I certainly not informed on ADHD, and not confident of writing anything intelligent.
I am passionate about supporting people to be the best they can.

Getting ADHD may be expensive to get diagnosed privately - as will every other private medical request. And what some people may not realise is that privately acquired diagnoses are often considered not as legit as those going the NHS route .. rightly or wrongly the assumption has been that the private Psychologist or psychiatrist will often give you the diagnosis you want .. or at least that was true years ago regarding private ASD diagnosis.

The waiting list in my particular team to see a psychiatrist for assessment of ADHD is something like 18mths via the non urgent route; it's free of course.

[SeanBrennan]

It's not easy to get a diagnosis for ADHD.

My wife has ADHD, as does my son (though he's more ASD).
Cost a fortune for a diagnosis.

awful that you had to pay to get your family a diagnosis.

[SeanBrennan]

this thread is really useful, thanks for those posting.

[forcefraser]

ADHD is certainly not a made up disease. It is often used as an excuse for other illnesses or certain traits.

I have an ADHD diagnosis. Took Ritalin for a few years and found it dulled my senses.

I just live with the ups and downs of ADHD now. Impulsive behaviour, addictive personality, rapid mood swings and the othe hand I find it aids creativity, hyper concentration and humour.

It's different for everyone. The best way for me to keep going off the rails is to have routine and train every day.

If I stray for a few days I can be looking at two week bender before I even realise what's going on. Madness really.

[Lenny Cravats]

It's not easy to get a diagnosis for ADHD.

My wife has ADHD, as does my son (though he's more ASD).
Cost a fortune for a diagnosis.

awful that you had to pay to get your family a diagnosis.

Couldn't wait.

My lad was self-harming and about to be kicked out of school. He needed a diagnosis to have protection from schools behaviour policy that they kept trotting out.

Without an EHCP, they just wouldn't make any adjustments.

The whole process was a nightmare from start to finish.
Local authority stretched beyond their limit and dropping the ball so many times meant the process was dragged out over 18 months, cost me thousands for diagnosis and SaLT, OT and Ed Psych reports.
Took years off my life.

I'm a little dubious of some of the claims here that people are getting a diagnosis for their kids so they can claim benefits. No doubt there's a few, but the system is so hard to navigate for legitimate people with an understanding of education and LA (I'd been a teacher for 10 years at that point).
It cost me about £3,000 plus a hundred + hours of my time...

As we were living through the difficulties of having an SEN kid we realised how ADHD my wife was.
I just assumed she was fornicating mental, so did she.

It came around at the same time, really. My wife is the cleverest person I've ever met. She barely went to school, but managed to get 10 A*'s.
She barely attended 6th form, but got 4 A's.

She studied Politics, Philosophy and Economics at Manchester, read the course books a few months before the finals and come at with a first - with the highest percentages they'd seen for years at Manchester University.
She's done a Master's in Economics in the same results.

She'd worked her way up on her job to a very senior level very quickly, and at the top is when she started to struggle.
Not because she wasn't able, but because, for the first time, she had to concentrate on singular things and see them through.

Life with her can be proper stressful... Constantly changing the house, buying new things, replacing everything, throwing stuff out only to buy new stuff that looked exactly like what we had 3 redecorations (and 6 months) ago.

She has serious anxieties and inabilities to complete basic tasks. A parking ticket will escalate to bailiffs. A tax return will result in a massive HMRC fine. Company expenses? There'll be a drawer full of our of date receipts worth thousands.

She takes medication now and finds things easier, but because our system is absolute dogshit, and it was a private diagnosis, the NHS won't take on her prescription... So that's £180 a month to fork out for.

[SeanBrennan]

It's not easy to get a diagnosis for ADHD.

My wife has ADHD, as does my son (though he's more ASD).
Cost a fortune for a diagnosis.

awful that you had to pay to get your family a diagnosis.

Couldn't wait.

My lad was self-harming and about to be kicked out of school. He needed a diagnosis to have protection from schools behaviour policy that they kept trotting out.

Without an EHCP, they just wouldn't make any adjustments.

The whole process was a nightmare from start to finish.
Local authority stretched beyond their limit and dropping the ball so many times meant the process was dragged out over 18 months, cost me thousands for diagnosis and SaLT, OT and Ed Psych reports.
Took years off my life.

I'm a little dubious of some of the claims here that people are getting a diagnosis for their kids so they can claim benefits. No doubt there's a few, but the system is so hard to navigate for legitimate people with an understanding of education and LA (I'd been a teacher for 10 years at that point).
It cost me about £3,000 plus a hundred + hours of my time...

As we were living through the difficulties of having an SEN kid we realised how ADHD my wife was.
I just assumed she was fornicating mental, so did she.

It came around at the same time, really. My wife is the cleverest person I've ever met. She barely went to school, but managed to get 10 A*'s.
She barely attended 6th form, but got 4 A's.

She studied Politics, Philosophy and Economics at Manchester, read the course books a few months before the finals and come at with a first - with the highest percentages they'd seen for years at Manchester University.
She's done a Master's in Economics in the same results.

She'd worked her way up on her job to a very senior level very quickly, and at the top is when she started to struggle.
Not because she wasn't able, but because, for the first time, she had to concentrate on singular things and see them through.

Life with her can be proper stressful... Constantly changing the house, buying new things, replacing everything, throwing stuff out only to buy new stuff that looked exactly like what we had 3 redecorations (and 6 months) ago.

She has serious anxieties and inabilities to complete basic tasks. A parking ticket will escalate to bailiffs. A tax return will result in a massive HMRC fine. Company expenses? There'll be a drawer full of our of date receipts worth thousands.

She takes medication now and finds things easier, but because our system is absolute dogshit, and it was a private diagnosis, the NHS won't take on her prescription... So that's £180 a month to fork out for.

thanks for sharing Lenny and I'm sorry your boy and wife have been through so much, and you too as I know it takes its toll caring for them during this. My daughter self harms and we're lucky in Lincolnshire that CAMHS support is really good and I work in that field so it's a little easier to navigate.

your wife is clever getting a first in PPE with all she had to go through, well done to her.

I hope you are well. If you ever want to chat re appealing the NHS medication decision, happy to chat (not being patronising just went through it for my daughter)

[tonyevs]

It sounds like the private diagnosis of ADHD are received similar to how I remember those for ASD and LD being previously.

I don't know what background or experience the private doctors have who give the private diagnosis, and I'm sure they will need to adhere to the same criteria and ethics. But when they are given a one or two visit snapshot of a person, and the person has likely been Googling symptoms for 6mths self-diagnosing and likely to repeat these to the Doctor word for word, then their diagnosis can understandably be flawed.

There are many overlaps between ASD and ADHD. Added to this female presentation of ASD is still being better understood. From being recognised as heavily male 16:1 it is now more accepted as being 3:1. I see no reason why this won't be finally accepted as 1:1 ratio of equal male/female.

My concern of private diagnosis of ADHD would be a neurodivergent person focussed on a similar, but ultimately incorrect diagnosis, and being too fixated on convincing the Doctor.
All meds have side effects and a placebo can be very effective .. but that can potentially be a risky association when the likes of an amphetamine or a methylphenidate are prescribed.

[Lenny Cravats]

It sounds like the private diagnosis of ADHD are received similar to how I remember those for ASD and LD being previously.

I don't know what background or experience the private doctors have who give the private diagnosis, and I'm sure they will need to adhere to the same criteria and ethics. But when they are given a one or two visit snapshot of a person, and the person has likely been Googling symptoms for 6mths self-diagnosing and likely to repeat these to the Doctor word for word, then their diagnosis can understandably be flawed.

There are many overlaps between ASD and ADHD. Added to this female presentation of ASD is still being better understood. From being recognised as heavily male 16:1 it is now more accepted as being 3:1. I see no reason why this won't be finally accepted as 1:1 ratio of equal male/female.

My concern of private diagnosis of ADHD would be a neurodivergent person focussed on a similar, but ultimately incorrect diagnosis, and being too fixated on convincing the Doctor.
All meds have side effects and a placebo can be very effective .. but that can potentially be a risky association when the likes of an amphetamine or a methylphenidate are prescribed.

I don't understand your concern for private diagnosis.

How would the (cynical) above summary be any different from a private diagnosis or waiting years for an NHS one?

[veriton]

Private diagnosis for huge recurring sums, what could possibly go wrong. I've worked in places where you could get a doctor to write anything for a few quid and that sounds the same.

There's been a huge rise in people being signed off work long term under the mental health umbrella - either as a society we are experiencing a historical surge for unexplained reasons or record numbers of people are simply reporting symptoms to skive or find a label/excuse for character flaws that in any other age would have been perfectly acceptable as simply being human.

Make your own minds up on that. To keep this to boxing, I find it bizarre that Degale has gone this way but I can see the comfort in going down the 'it was the adhd that made me do it guv' route.

[Steveh583]

where i live, they have run out of medication to prescribe, its shameful. so genuine cases like some of the lads i work with are falling thru the cracks who could genuinely have a different life trajectory but for the short supply.

schools are basically being told tough titties theres nothing we can do. CAMHS are an embarrassment.

[tonyevs]

My concern of private diagnosis of ADHD would be a neurodivergent person focussed on a similar, but ultimately incorrect diagnosis, .

I don't understand your concern for private diagnosis.

How would the (cynical) above summary be any different from a private diagnosis or waiting years for an NHS one?

Your description of your child and wife's situation kinda adds weight to my concern of private diagnosis. Would you wife be prescribed the medication she feels is beneficial if she had gone the NHS route?
Will your child's private diagnosis face similar challenges when he turns 18?

It's just concerns I'd have and I don't feel it's cynical at all, especially after reading your own experiences.

If you feel the private diagnosis were beneficial then from your perspective it's money well spent.

[polecateddy]

Often the GP route for a child autism diagnosis is an initial GP appointment and then a 4-6 month wait for a couple of long multi-hour assessment sessions via Zoom. But as they outsource they are all basically using the same private companies anyway but obviously it’s free on the NHS.

[Lenny Cravats]

My concern of private diagnosis of ADHD would be a neurodivergent person focussed on a similar, but ultimately incorrect diagnosis, .

I don't understand your concern for private diagnosis.

How would the (cynical) above summary be any different from a private diagnosis or waiting years for an NHS one?

Your description of your child and wife's situation kinda adds weight to my concern of private diagnosis. Would you wife be prescribed the medication she feels is beneficial if she had gone the NHS route?
Will your child's private diagnosis face similar challenges when he turns 18?

It's just concerns I'd have and I don't feel it's cynical at all, especially after reading your own experiences.

If you feel the private diagnosis were beneficial then from your perspective it's money well spent.

It doesn't.

The pediatrician takes works both private and NHS, as does the psychiatrist my wife has her appointments with.
The payment was in order to get a diagnosis without having to wait years.

[tonyevs]

I don't understand your concern for private diagnosis.

How would the (cynical) above summary be any different from a private diagnosis or waiting years for an NHS one?

Your description of your child and wife's situation kinda adds weight to my concern of private diagnosis. Would you wife be prescribed the medication she feels is beneficial if she had gone the NHS route?
Will your child's private diagnosis face similar challenges when he turns 18?

It's just concerns I'd have and I don't feel it's cynical at all, especially after reading your own experiences.

If you feel the private diagnosis were beneficial then from your perspective it's money well spent.

It doesn't.

The pediatrician takes works both private and NHS, as does the psychiatrist my wife has her appointments with.
The payment was in order to get a diagnosis without having to wait years.

For you it doesn`t - for me it does.

The crux of what you said, is that in your own opinion our system is absolute dogshit because the NHS won't take on your wifes prescription because it was from a private diagnosis.

But as said - If you feel the private diagnosis were beneficial, then from your perspective it's money well spent. I not getting into a silly argument about it

[Lenny Cravats]

Your description of your child and wife's situation kinda adds weight to my concern of private diagnosis. Would you wife be prescribed the medication she feels is beneficial if she had gone the NHS route?
Will your child's private diagnosis face similar challenges when he turns 18?

It's just concerns I'd have and I don't feel it's cynical at all, especially after reading your own experiences.

If you feel the private diagnosis were beneficial then from your perspective it's money well spent.

It doesn't.

The pediatrician takes works both private and NHS, as does the psychiatrist my wife has her appointments with.
The payment was in order to get a diagnosis without having to wait years.

For you it doesn`t - for me it does.

The crux of what you said, is that in your own opinion our system is absolute dogshit because the NHS won't take on your wifes prescription because it was from a private diagnosis.

But as said - If you feel the private diagnosis were beneficial, then from your perspective it's money well spent. I not getting into a silly argument about it

Your posts are suggesting a lack of integrity in a private diagnosis - with no evidence to back it.

NHS are under no obligation to accept private prescriptions or diagnosis of any kind - it does not mean that a consultant working under an NHS banner or one of a private practice (as they're often the same person) would come to a different diagnosis or write a different prescription.

Nor does it mean that a person attending a private clinic over an NHS one would be any more likely to fake their 'symptoms'.

[black panther]

It's not easy to get a diagnosis for ADHD.

My wife has ADHD, as does my son (though he's more ASD).
Cost a fortune for a diagnosis.

awful that you had to pay to get your family a diagnosis.

Couldn't wait.

My lad was self-harming and about to be kicked out of school. He needed a diagnosis to have protection from schools behaviour policy that they kept trotting out.

Without an EHCP, they just wouldn't make any adjustments.

The whole process was a nightmare from start to finish.
Local authority stretched beyond their limit and dropping the ball so many times meant the process was dragged out over 18 months, cost me thousands for diagnosis and SaLT, OT and Ed Psych reports.
Took years off my life.

I'm a little dubious of some of the claims here that people are getting a diagnosis for their kids so they can claim benefits. No doubt there's a few, but the system is so hard to navigate for legitimate people with an understanding of education and LA (I'd been a teacher for 10 years at that point).
It cost me about £3,000 plus a hundred + hours of my time...

As we were living through the difficulties of having an SEN kid we realised how ADHD my wife was.
I just assumed she was fornicating mental, so did she.

It came around at the same time, really. My wife is the cleverest person I've ever met. She barely went to school, but managed to get 10 A*'s.
She barely attended 6th form, but got 4 A's.

She studied Politics, Philosophy and Economics at Manchester, read the course books a few months before the finals and come at with a first - with the highest percentages they'd seen for years at Manchester University.
She's done a Master's in Economics in the same results.

She'd worked her way up on her job to a very senior level very quickly, and at the top is when she started to struggle.
Not because she wasn't able, but because, for the first time, she had to concentrate on singular things and see them through.

Life with her can be proper stressful... Constantly changing the house, buying new things, replacing everything, throwing stuff out only to buy new stuff that looked exactly like what we had 3 redecorations (and 6 months) ago.

She has serious anxieties and inabilities to complete basic tasks. A parking ticket will escalate to bailiffs. A tax return will result in a massive HMRC fine. Company expenses? There'll be a drawer full of our of date receipts worth thousands.

She takes medication now and finds things easier, but because our system is absolute dogshit, and it was a private diagnosis, the NHS won't take on her prescription... So that's £180 a month to fork out for.

Hi mate. Have you or your wife read "Scattered Mind" by Dr Gabor Mate? It was a game changer for me. It's regarding origins of ADD/ADHD and how to mitigate/navigate its symptoms. Also I subscribe to different blogs and toolkits like "AdHD doers". And if you've been with a company for more than 3 months you can apply for the access to work scheme via the government where you get help with ADHD in the form of sponsored counselling/coaching, different tools that can assist with ADHD working such as electronic notepad that automatically types up what you write, standing desk etc. They take ages to get back to you/review your application but worth it.

Few things that have helped me a great deal though biggest aid was a good therapist.

Best of luck for you both.