Clarification of the Heavyweight scene now

[mooman]

Has last night's show in Riyadh clarified the heavyweight scene?

There were lots of questions surrounding Wilder and his actual worth. He hadn't actually beaten anyone of value, and his whole reputation was built around his high KOs over very poor opposition.
He lost badly against a fat Tyson Fury twice, and very clearly just now against a pretty well worn Joseph Parker.
Has losing against Parker demonstrated that Wilder wasn't that good anyway?

Dubois hung in there to win in style against Miller. Yet was dismantled convincingly and ultimately quit against Usyk.
And Joshua gained reports of being 'back to his best' by dominating and destroying Wallin in 5. Yet Wallin ran Fury to the wire just before Fury put in what most regard as his best performance ( Wilder 2).

Again, does last night clarify that Fury, like what Ngannou recently showed, is vastly overrated after all.
That Joshua is the 2nd best heavyweight after Usyk .. and Fury is merely a very lucky charlatan blessed with exceptional luck?

[stujones]

Partially agree

Bad night for Fury reputation, yes I agree with. Does that make me a bit more confident for a Usyk win…umm yes.

Fury a charlatan? A bit harsh… he does still hold wins over Whyte and while we criticised it also 3 dominant wins over Chisora who have at least won a fair few rounds vs Parker.

I think what it shows is Whyte might well have beaten Wilder when he was WBC champ and Whyte had the interim belt

[1328613]

Has last night's show in Riyadh clarified the heavyweight scene?

There were lots of questions surrounding Wilder and his actual worth. He hadn't actually beaten anyone of value, and his whole reputation was built around his high KOs over very poor opposition.
He lost badly against a fat Tyson Fury twice, and very clearly just now against a pretty well worn Joseph Parker.
Has losing against Parker demonstrated that Wilder wasn't that good anyway?

Dubois hung in there to win in style against Miller. Yet was dismantled convincingly and ultimately quit against Usyk.
And Joshua gained reports of being 'back to his best' by dominating and destroying Wallin in 5. Yet Wallin ran Fury to the wire just before Fury put in what most regard as his best performance ( Wilder 2).

Again, does last night clarify that Fury, like what Ngannou recently showed, is vastly overrated after all.
That Joshua is the 2nd best heavyweight after Usyk .. and Fury is merely a very lucky charlatan blessed with exceptional luck?

Excellent post. Last night highlighted the sorry state of heavyweight boxing. Wilder is a never was, with the worst boxing skills of almost any Champion I’ve seen outside of Carlos Maussa.

[polecateddy]

Fury must on some level be about the devaluation of the heavyweight division. These fighters aren’t as good as those in the 1990’s. Fury managed to create an illusion of greatness and like Wilder has finally been exposed. If he does turn up in February presumably he’ll lose a landslide or do a corner retirement.

[Twinkle Toes]

There is a lot of pressure on Fury for February. I think he's finished but we'll see.

[Coco]

I'd love to see Zhang in the mix, I think they will wait until he is too old though

Parkers win puts Joyce back in the mix too

In reality last night's results complicated things further!

[Boxerbeetle]

Heavyweight division has been poor for 20 years, in terms of overall quality and comparisons to previous eras. Although it's a damn sight more enjoyable now than when the Eastern Europeans were dominating. Wilder, for all his faults and lack of skills, has always been an intriguing watch.

[SAPFO]

We have to take the currency at face value. I’d like to see Zhang mix it with a few in the top three personally. if this is fantasy heavyweight boxing, the Saudis can make whatever they like.

[tony1234]

I think it's in a mess, Joshua was well beaten twice by Usyk and nothing last night would mean he would beat Usyk again. Wilder is done as a challenger, Parker could get a shot after winning but he's well exposed as a challenger.

Fury v Joshua is about the most interesting fight left now and whether that ever happens god knows ?

Who is the up and comer who can shake things up ?

[tonyevs]

I think it's in a mess, Joshua was well beaten twice by Usyk and nothing last night would mean he would beat Usyk again. Wilder is done as a challenger, Parker could get a shot after winning but he's well exposed as a challenger.

Fury v Joshua is about the most interesting fight left now and whether that ever happens god knows ?

Who is the up and comer who can shake things up ?

I agree - AJ didn`t show anything new to suggest he could beat Usyk. But what he did show was that Wallin isn`t that good .. in fact as someone earlier wrote, Wallin is just fodder for the elite. Yet he is good enough to have lasted the distance with Fury, and did so without ever looking under pressure ... maybe the Ngannou result wasn`t that surprising after all?

I don`t believe Joyce is outside of the elite , he just lost to a better fighter. Joyce would likely still be too tough for Dubois, and very likely still be a dangerous opponent for AJ and Hrgovic. I too would like to see Zhang get his opportunity to be in the mix - Dubois or Joshua would be fun, I not too interested in Zhang v Parker.

I think the division is clearer now too. Three pretenders were removed from the picture, and Fury`s standing severely damaged as a result. Hopefully people now will see Fury for the hype job that he is, and he gets removed too in February. Hopefully then the division will be able to move again.

Well done to Dubois though. Maybe he can build on the win and gain some confidence in himself to deafen the quit next time it speaks to him. If he can - then the losses to Joyce and Usyk can be a great learning experience to take forward. Fighting usyk will no doubt have benefited him, as no doubt it benefited AJ fighting Wallin last night.

[Riddick Bowie]

Last night confirmed how ridiculously overrated Tyson Fury is.

To have an up and down trilogy with a fighter as useless as Deontay Wilder is bad enough, but to struggle with cannon fodder like Otto Wallin is just embarrassing. Joshua smashed him up the way any serious top heavyweight would do. Fury's showing against the MMA debutante was no abberation -- he really is that average.

[Lenny Cravats]

What last night proved, if anything, is that we need more nights like this.

It's beyond shit that, as fans, we have to sit and consider what recent results might mean in terms of who would beat who... Just fight each other, FFS.

Though, we are where we are.

Wilder was being soundly beaten by most of his opponents that could fight a bit, until he knocked them out. He's always been a boxer with poor fundamentals but incredible power. Ortiz nearly had him, and who has that guy ever beat?

Fury's wins over Wilder were incredibly one-sided, save for the rounds he was knocked down in.
Klitschko is by far Fury's best win, possibly the best of any current heavyweight. I'd still have him as No 1.

[tonyevs]

What last night proved, if anything, is that we need more nights like this.

I

Fury's wins over Wilder were incredibly one-sided, save for the rounds he was knocked down in.
Klitschko is by far Fury's best win, possibly the best of any current heavyweight. I'd still have him as No 1.

I not sure you can call a fight one sided when both guys are put down heavy and both look 1 punch away from stopping the other.

Fury fought an old Wlad literally at the end of a very long career - and scraped the win. Fury holds the distinction of being the only guy who beat Wlad who wasn`t able to stop him.
I`d put AJs win over Wlad as more impressive and definitive - and Usyks win against Aj, or Zhangs win against Joyce as being far better wins out of this current group of heavyweights.

Its crazy to suggest Fury deserves to be considered as number 1 in the division - he just scraped past a guy almost 40 yrs old making his boxing debut .. Furys historic best wins over Wilder hold little value nowadays.

1. Usyk
2. Joshua/Zhang
3. Fury
4. Hrg
5. Joyce

[funso banjo baby]

Joshua is in a tricky situation as regards his legit title ambitions. He will never beat Usyk and no one really wants a third match.

Maybe these new heavyweight bills are the way forward

Leaving the undisputed title aside.....it's fairly dull anyway, I'd love to see big bills with these kinds of matchups....

Joshua v Kabayel
Dubois v Ngannou
Parker v Zhang
Ruiz v Sanchez
Bakole v Hunter 2
Etc

[tony1234]

Trouble to ge these shows we need Saudi money and so the shows will be there

[SeanBrennan]

I hope Bakole and Hunter get onto these cards, they both deserve it.

[Riddick Bowie]

I think if Wilder retires Joshua's tastiest opponent is Zhang. Hrgovic is just a quick pointless knock over job.

Andy Ruiz vs Joyce, Dubois, Parker or any name would be fun.

[knockout]

No one really talks about Sanchez ?

Looks pretty impressive. Very quick feet and hands and has power.

Where does he fit in ??

[a force]

Am I missing something?

Wilder’s 38, inactive & has a style that relies on speed & reflexes.

It has no bearing on how fights would’ve gone 5 or 6 years earlier it’s just another example of how fights need to happen when they’re in demand.

It’s a disgrace that we’ve not had & probably won’t get Joshua - Wilder in the ring together.

We probably aren’t going to get Fury - Joshua either or at least won’t get it when it will still have any meaning attached to it.

We’re all mugs really for following a sport where the best fights don’t happen when they should for the most part.

[Riddick Bowie]

We’re all mugs really for following a sport where the best fights don’t happen when they should for the most part.

Totally agree with you on this. UFC has embarrassed (modern) boxing. They retire with spotty records but are recognised for greatness because they all fight each other and inevitably accumulate losses.

Modern boxing is a game of record building and avoiding dangerous opponents while fighting sporadically and dragging things out for years while pretending you're great.

Imagine being told in 2017 that by 2023, SIX YEARS LATER, Joshua still won't have fought Fury and Wilder.

[a force]

We’re all mugs really for following a sport where the best fights don’t happen when they should for the most part.

Totally agree with you on this. UFC has embarrassed (modern) boxing. They retire with spotty records but are recognised for greatness because they all fight each other and inevitably accumulate losses.

Modern boxing is a game of record building and avoiding dangerous opponents while fighting sporadically and dragging things out for years while pretending you're great.

Imagine being told in 2017 that by 2023, SIX YEARS LATER, Joshua still won't have fought Fury and Wilder.

It’s madness.

We’ve missed out on so many great fights. I’m only in my 30’s but have missed out on so many fights I was desperate to see.

I’ve got a feeling Berterbiev’s on the slide & we won’t get him v Bivol like we didn’t get Kovalev - Stevenson.

We got Canelo - Golovkin 3 times in the end but had to wait an age for the first.

Brook - Khan happened way too late.

Mayweather - Pacquaio & Mayweather - Cotto both happened later than they should’ve.

Hatton - Witter too.

Even Crolla - Flanagan, two world champs from the same city. How can they not get that fight on?

[joshj909]

I would like to see the next event also involving Ruiz and Zhang. We could get a very clear understanding of the division of the correct fights are made.

Joshua vs Hrgovic
Ruiz vs Wilder/Parker
Any combination of Zhang vs Kabayel vs Bakole vs Sanchez vs Anderson vs Ajagba vs Dubois
Get Hunter in there as well. Maybe Wardley too.

[Grilling Machine]

I'd love to see Zhang in the mix, I think they will wait until he is too old though

Parkers win puts Joyce back in the mix too

Career-best wins for Dubois and Parker should (probably won't) elevate Joyce and Zhang. Good comeback PR for Joyce, and if you felt Zhang beat Hrgovic (I think he maybe edged it), he totally deserves a shot at Uysk/Fury and/or Joshua.

Fury could still reclaim #1 and retire by beating Usyk and Joshua, but that's a fair old challenge. If it's Usyk-Fury and AJ-Hrg next, maybe Zhang-Sanchez to establish the next challenger for one of those pairs?

Kabayel-Ruiz seems a good idea.

[coneye]

Think last night proved a couple of things , Wilder was an hype job , So was Wallin , and while were talking hype so was /is Whyte ,, all these guys have been hyped up to create a monster in Fury who we now know is predomintly hype has well .

But take away the hype and its just really proved that A beats B beats C beats A ,, AND THE FRONT RUNNER HAS TO BE uSYK , WHO I BELIEVE LOOKING AT HIS STYLE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TROUBLE WITH zANG . After all who would still pick AJ over Fury , i would'nt lay to much on it , , then theres the little fat fella Ruiz who no one seems to want a bar off if he's in condition theres Zang who i'm sure would shorten the odds against all of them , DD could be a real contender if he was made to step away from the gym , for a couple of months and learn 2 plus 2 equals 4 , guy could be real serious if someone could teach him to think in that ring , and he's young enough to learn , Huni is sat on the sidelines learning his trade very well , and he's fast and a good thinker ,, Jai could if done correctly over next 2 years go up , All in all yesterday just opened the gates and made it harder to pick a winner , but gave options for a lot of good fights .

I still want to see AJ -- fURY AJ -- Zang Aj -- Wilder Fury --Zang ... Fury --- Ruiz ,,, Usyk --- Zang ,,, DD --- Ruiz , that division is truly the best and most exciting division of them all , theres some great fights there , somehow they just got to be made , it really could if done right turn boxing around and back to the glory days of Ali , Bugner - Frazier , Norton , Forman , Shavers , if only they will fight each other .

Has someone else said the great nights will come if theres more mix ups like this , but the Saudi money is needed , and who cares if its held in Saudi , i got up at 2.30 am to watch , think it started at 3 am made a coffee , sat down in peace , wife was in bed , no talking no distractions , no have you fed the dog , , no why did'nt you put the toilet seat down , no do you think this dress looks ok , non of the usual shite , just me , the tele , all on my own and really really enjoyed it the boxing , went off around 10 am , went back to bed for a couple hrs , great , except i still woke up every 15 minuites or so , having bad dream , of some bald headed fat bloke called steve , bunce , screaming and screaching with a horrible squeaky girly voice screaming the obvious in my ear

[KiwiRider]

No one really talks about Sanchez ?

Looks pretty impressive. Very quick feet and hands and has power.

Where does he fit in ??

You saw the most entertaining version of The Cuban Flash.
Unfortunately he has that habit of doing "just enough" to win. Something fans tolerate from the Cuban brigade in the lower weights, but not apparently in the HW division.
So Frank is in the "who needs him" catagory. Great boxer, good mover, but makes crowds boo