Clarification of the Heavyweight scene now

[mooman]

The heavyweight division has always been a barometer of the sports health.
The likes of Wilder, Fury and to a lesser degree Joshua have suffocated the division.

Wilder was a hype job .. Fury's legend was built on having life and death beating him .. which with hindsight only proves how sh1t Fury really is.

Usyk is in his last legs also, so hopefully he has enough to win in February. Then I hope he too retires and the others can fight it out to prove who is the best.

[Riddick Bowie]

Cuban heavies have a 100% record of failing in the pro ranks. Not getting involved in with this one, cba.

[stujones]

It is a job to rank the heavyweights these days because everyone seems to be so vulnerable and poor. it is hard to rank fighters highly.

I’m happy to go Usyk / Fury at one and two and Joshua/ Zhang at at 3 and 4. But then Hirgovic beat Zhang on paper and at least ran him close.

Find it difficult to give Joyce a high ranking, based on the manner of his defeats and by default Joyce beat Parker and Dubois decisively, so should be higher than them.

Similarly for Andy Ruiz, lost every minute in his last fight in World class.


Very tempted to put some new less proven guys into the top 10 highly, like Hirgovic at 5, Kaybelle at 6.

[DrDuke]

We've had a bunch of interesting fights.

I expected more from Wallin, but Joshua had no problems with him. Joshua can fight Hrgovic or Zhang, while Fury fights Usyk.

Wilder looked like sh1t vs Parker. Ok, we know, he can't box, but that was Parker, who never looked stellar. Now the Kiwi Joe is a real contender again.

Kabayel surprised heavily. He looked bad against some tomato can not so long ago, but now he exposed Mak. He has some interesting opportunities now. Sanchez, Dubois, Efe, Jah, whatever.

[SeanBrennan]

I hope Zhang gets onto these cards, and Bakole and Parker.

[KiwiRider]

I like Zhang Joshua as a potential fight.
Zhang Parker not so much, Parker could pretty much execute the same game plan he did with Wilder and win a wide points decision against the slow plodder. Zhang really only has 5-6 rounds in him. Maybe less with stringent testing.

Agree will all, Fury is devalued after the weekend.

[Coco]

Remember AJ beat Zhang in the amateurs

[SeanBrennan]

Remember AJ beat Zhang in the amateurs

He sure did, 15 - 11. Zhang on the cusp of very old, I think AJ batters him.

[tiny_acres]

Am I missing something?

Wilder’s 38, inactive & has a style that relies on speed & reflexes.

It has no bearing on how fights would’ve gone 5 or 6 years earlier it’s just another example of how fights need to happen when they’re in demand.

It’s a disgrace that we’ve not had & probably won’t get Joshua - Wilder in the ring together.

We probably aren’t going to get Fury - Joshua either or at least won’t get it when it will still have any meaning attached to it.

We’re all mugs really for following a sport where the best fights don’t happen when they should for the most part.

You are 100% correct. This has no bearing on how good a fighter was 3,4 or 5 years ago. Fighters age

[margaret thatcher]

too bad when you can crush most of your career, you cant look back and say 'hey i handily beat all these guys who are better than the guy who got me past my prime, clearly i was better than this'

having guys like bermane and big dom among the best 3 guys youu've beaten in your nearly 50 fight career leaves you open for that. that's why wilder and fury fans fawn so much over luis ortiz, he's really the only guy you cant LOL at being among wilder's best wins. but even then im not sure he'd have beat joe parker

wilder is simply lacking enough of the hard proof that would stop people from dismissing him like theyre now doing after the loss. and how the f@ck has he never fought andy ruiz? they were hyped on pbc together for years. the top 2 american heavies, both with drawing power in the usa.

[gregregegg]

If wilder fought Parker 6 years ago we would know if peak wilder is better than Parker…

But instead he fought a retired stievern and Washington.

I’m with mags on this… that’s wilders problem and will forever leave an astrix on his career.

[gilgamesh]

Last night confirmed how ridiculously overrated Tyson Fury is.

To have an up and down trilogy with a fighter as useless as Deontay Wilder is bad enough, but to struggle with cannon fodder like Otto Wallin is just embarrassing. Joshua smashed him up the way any serious top heavyweight would do. Fury's showing against the MMA debutante was no abberation -- he really is that average.

For the record Fury's struggles against Wallin were mainly just in getting cut. Other than that he controlled the fight, and won almost every round except for a few.

[margaret thatcher]

fury got hurt, fury got horrifically cut, fury lost some rounds. all by a guy who couldnt win 10 seconds or go past 5 vs joshua

positive showing for josh

[gilgamesh]

fury got hurt too, all by a guy who couldnt win 10 seconds or go past 5 vs joshua

Yeah I remember him getting buzzed a little in the 12th I think.

[mooman]

And let us not forget - this is the shell of Joshua that Wallin fought, whilst Wallin it can be argued was still relatively green and fought the best version of Fury .. the Fury 5 months away from his best win.

Fury's win over Wlad Klitschko didn't get that much fanfare originally because it was recognised Wlad was old, and both guys put on a very bad fight .. just that Fury was slightly less bad and got the nod.
When Fury beat Wilder the Hype really started. Wilders Impressive KO record helped that. But we can now see that Wilder really was sh!t after all .. an old Joe Parker just beat Wilder and looked a world beater doing it; and the gun shy Joshua looked a monster again beating Fury's 3rd best guy he has beaten.

[big lennox]

I think you can make a case that Parker has a better resume than Fury.

Parker has beaten Ruiz and Wilder and also been in the ring with Joshua and Joyce

Fury has beaten Wilder but not been in the ring with Ruiz, Joshua or Joyce, instead boxing Chisora 3 times and a 37 year old professional debutant.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Parker is still only 31.

He's also very experienced, can see him winning a belt again.

[JC]

I think you can make a case that Parker has a better resume than Fury.

Parker has beaten Ruiz and Wilder and also been in the ring with Joshua and Joyce

Fury has beaten Wilder but not been in the ring with Ruiz, Joshua or Joyce, instead boxing Chisora 3 times and a 37 year old professional debutant.

I agree Fury’s resume is not the deepest but dethroning Klitschko is better than anything Parker has done. You can’t leave that one off.

[tonyevs]

But beating Klitchko is more so winning against the name than the fighter he was .. Klitchko was at the very end of his career and certainly not the decent fighter he was of say 4-5 yrs prior.

Fury beating Wilder always had the unknown of if Wilder was actually better than our eyes were telling us - yes he looked very poor against his as poor opposition, but he won in style ... maybe a better opponent would make him look better, but as Parker showed, nope it didn`t ... Wilder just looked as poor.

Parker may be 31 yrs old but he has plenty of miles on him due to the tough fights he has had. I think most were saying the same after Joyce bashed him up.
But I agree, Parker does have the better resume than Fury. Because what does Fury actually have?
1. The ancient Klitchko
2. The very poor Wilder
3. Shell of Whyte
4. 3 wins over Chisora

Fury`s pro record is no better than Nik Valuev`s. 1 win over an aged great - couple wins over past it or simply very bad opposition.

[TBA]

Don't think it changes much really.

AJ went 12 with 5 foot Franklin.

Junior Fa took more rounds off Parker than Wilder, then gets blasted by Lucas Browne, who lost to Miller, who got beat by Dubois, who lost to Joyce, who lost to Zhang, who lost to Hrgovic.

You see how that all goes.

Also that Fury cut happened in the 3rd. That's a huge amount of time he had to fight with that horrible cut.

What it does show though that there are a few fighters who have been fighting recently and looked in the best form and conditioning. So if anything, if these Saudi cards can bring the money to get these guys to fight more often we can both get better fights, and get over the boxing hysteria of undefeated records not mattering all that much like in MMA.

While Wilder who has boxed 1 round in 2 years and is now 38 looked old and as somehow said dry to the bone. The main quote he said was that his timing was off. And after not fighting for so long, and then going against one of the quickest heavyweights in combination of foot speed and handspeed, made sense.

[Ezzard]

Don't think it changes much really.

AJ went 12 with 5 foot Franklin.

Junior Fa took more rounds off Parker than Wilder, then gets blasted by Lucas Browne, who lost to Miller, who got beat by Dubois, who lost to Joyce, who lost to Zhang, who lost to Hrgovic.

You see how that all goes.

Also that Fury cut happened in the 3rd. That's a huge amount of time he had to fight with that horrible cut.

What it does show though that there are a few fighters who have been fighting recently and looked in the best form and conditioning.

While Wilder who has boxed 1 round in 2 years and is now 38 looked old and as somehow said dry to the bone. The main quote he said was that his timing was off. And after not fighting for so long, and then going against one of the quickest heavyweights in combination of foot speed and handspeed, made sense.

Agree. Wilder looked like a man in need of rounds.

And whilst the current scene might not match the 1990s its still one of the better eras

[CaptainSpacerod]

What a shame Saudi Arabia didn’t get involved 5,6,7,8 years ago.

We’d have got these guys boxing each other in their primes rather than as the flawed diminished fighters they are now

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Why is it that top sportsmen and women in Football, Tennis, Swimming, Athletics or Darts can have off days, can be marked out of the match, be carrying an injury or simply not in the right frame of mind etc., etc., but self acclaimed boxing pundits on here decide that Joshua beating Wallin shows that Wallins not great, that Wilder falling to Parker is because he was never any good. That Fury not feeling 'up for it' means he's scared?

[Coco]

Why is it that top sportsmen and women in Football, Tennis, Swimming, Athletics or Darts can have off days, can be marked out of the match, be carrying an injury or simply not in the right frame of mind etc., etc., but self acclaimed boxing pundits on here decide that Joshua beating Wallin shows that Wallins not great, that Wilder falling to Parker is because he was never any good. That Fury not feeling 'up for it' means he's scared?

It's clear that Fury is a coward who can't fight

Gotta few pals in the pub who would beat him, but he is scared to fight them

It seems that he will only fight if he is paid a lot of money to do so, pussy...

[tonyevs]

Why is it that top sportsmen and women in Football, Tennis, Swimming, Athletics or Darts can have off days, can be marked out of the match, be carrying an injury or simply not in the right frame of mind etc., etc., but self acclaimed boxing pundits on here decide that Joshua beating Wallin shows that Wallins not great, that Wilder falling to Parker is because he was never any good. That Fury not feeling 'up for it' means he's scared?

What has Wallin done to suggest he is great then?

In the last 5 years Parker has lost to Joshua, Whyte, Joyce. He has basically lost each time he stepped up. He is a solid operator for sure - but like Chisora, he is best described as a gatekeeper.