Clarification of the Heavyweight scene now

[big lennox]

Ultimately, you can only judge a fighter on who they boxed and when they boxed them.

To date, Parker has been in with tougher competition than Fury and beaten two of the biggest names of this era (Wilder and Ruiz) and Fury has beaten Wilder 3 times ( the first fight he was robbed of victory with the draw on the scorecards).

It can all change and the jury is out until they retire, but Parker has shown more willingness to take on the elite than Fury, thus far. That will change again if the Fury vs Uysk fight goes ahead.

[Coco]

Ultimately, you can only judge a fighter on who they boxed and when they boxed them.

To date, Parker has been in with tougher competition than Fury and beaten two of the biggest names of this era (Wilder and Ruiz) and Fury has beaten Wilder 3 times ( the first fight he was robbed of victory with the draw on the scorecards).

It can all change and the jury is out until they retire, but Parker has shown more willingness to take on the elite than Fury, thus far. That will change again if the Fury vs Uysk fight goes ahead.

Fury beat Klitschow too

[big lennox]

Ultimately, you can only judge a fighter on who they boxed and when they boxed them.

To date, Parker has been in with tougher competition than Fury and beaten two of the biggest names of this era (Wilder and Ruiz) and Fury has beaten Wilder 3 times ( the first fight he was robbed of victory with the draw on the scorecards).

It can all change and the jury is out until they retire, but Parker has shown more willingness to take on the elite than Fury, thus far. That will change again if the Fury vs Uysk fight goes ahead.

Fury beat Klitschow too

He did, but Klitschko was almost 40, and he failed a PED test that same year which has to be a consideration and reduces the significance of that win, I think.

[tonyevs]

To date, Parker has been in with tougher competition than Fury and beaten two of the biggest names of this era (Wilder and Ruiz)

I can't agree that Ruiz is/was one of the biggest names of this era.
He won against Joshua akin to how Rahman beat Lewis ... It was a solid win for sure, but a focused Joshua/Lewis won easy enough in the rematch.

Ruiz hasn't done anything before or after beating Joshua.
Wilder if course was one of the biggest names, but again he hasn't put substance to that

[Coco]

Ultimately, you can only judge a fighter on who they boxed and when they boxed them.

To date, Parker has been in with tougher competition than Fury and beaten two of the biggest names of this era (Wilder and Ruiz) and Fury has beaten Wilder 3 times ( the first fight he was robbed of victory with the draw on the scorecards).

It can all change and the jury is out until they retire, but Parker has shown more willingness to take on the elite than Fury, thus far. That will change again if the Fury vs Uysk fight goes ahead.

Fury beat Klitschow too

He did, but Klitschko was almost 40, and he failed a PED test that same year which has to be a consideration and reduces the significance of that win, I think.

And Fury KO'd Whyte whereas Whyte beat Parker knocking him down twice

Parker went life and death with Chisora whereas Fury played with him 3 times, before winning inside the distance

[big lennox]

Fury beat Klitschow too

He did, but Klitschko was almost 40, and he failed a PED test that same year which has to be a consideration and reduces the significance of that win, I think.

And Fury KO'd Whyte whereas Whyte beat Parker knocking him down twice

Parker went life and death with Chisora whereas Fury played with him 3 times, before winning inside the distance

Fury had three goes at Chisora and didn't come close to anything as clinical as Haye's ko of Chisora.

[margaret thatcher]

if wilder's win column wasnt filled with so much trash it would be easier to show it was just him being past his best or him having an off night.

[giacomino]

if wilder's win column wasnt filled with so much trash it would be easier to show it was just him being past his best or him having an off night.

Wilder = fraud before the Parker fight. Wilder = was Ali/Louis after the Parker fight. It was a nice win for Parker, hope he gets a big payday out of it, but some folk are getting carried away with the significance of him beating Wilder

[si7dog7]

This thread is evermore confusing.

X beat y and y beat z
But z beat x

Its nonsense

The heavyweight division is no better off after 23rd.

We need Usyk / Fury.

If it doesn’t happen. We need regimented stripping of titles if needed.

Is Parker next up ? Before AJ? He should be. But he won’t be.

[margaret thatcher]

Remember AJ beat Zhang in the amateurs

He sure did, 15 - 11. Zhang on the cusp of very old, I think AJ batters him.

aj also dropped zhang in that fight. granted it was a long time ago and a single amateur fight really only says so much, but i think if they rematched we'd get a reality check on zhang

aj is not going to walk face first towards zhang during zz's early danger period

[Coco]

He did, but Klitschko was almost 40, and he failed a PED test that same year which has to be a consideration and reduces the significance of that win, I think.

And Fury KO'd Whyte whereas Whyte beat Parker knocking him down twice

Parker went life and death with Chisora whereas Fury played with him 3 times, before winning inside the distance

Fury had three goes at Chisora and didn't come close to anything as clinical as Haye's ko of Chisora.

Oh sorry, I didn't realise your goal here was to make a Haye- Fury comparison...

[big lennox]

And Fury KO'd Whyte whereas Whyte beat Parker knocking him down twice

Parker went life and death with Chisora whereas Fury played with him 3 times, before winning inside the distance

Fury had three goes at Chisora and didn't come close to anything as clinical as Haye's ko of Chisora.

Oh sorry, I didn't realise your goal here was to make a Haye- Fury comparison...

It's not, it's just we have been sold that Fury is the greatest heavyweight of all time and I am not convinced his resume supports that view; and I don't think it compares as well as it could have done against his own peers. You have a different view, and that's fine.

[KiwiRider]

Remember AJ beat Zhang in the amateurs

He sure did, 15 - 11. Zhang on the cusp of very old, I think AJ batters him.

aj also dropped zhang in that fight. granted it was a long time ago and a single amateur fight really only says so much, but i think if they rematched we'd get a reality check on zhang

aj is not going to walk face first towards zhang during zz's early danger period

Agree with that.
Things change though.
AJ post Ruiz #1 is a much different fighter. Some would say timid, especially when maybe facing the guy who cracked the iron jaw.
If Zhang has any beef, it's likely with Joshua. I can see the fight being entertaining for the first 5 rounds at least. Shame Zhang is so old.

[margaret thatcher]

He sure did, 15 - 11. Zhang on the cusp of very old, I think AJ batters him.

aj also dropped zhang in that fight. granted it was a long time ago and a single amateur fight really only says so much, but i think if they rematched we'd get a reality check on zhang

aj is not going to walk face first towards zhang during zz's early danger period

If Zhang has any beef

must.........resist urge for............chinese food joke

[bogan whisperer]

Am I missing something?

Wilder’s 38, inactive & has a style that relies on speed & reflexes.

It has no bearing on how fights would’ve gone 5 or 6 years earlier it’s just another example of how fights need to happen when they’re in demand.

It’s a disgrace that we’ve not had & probably won’t get Joshua - Wilder in the ring together.

We probably aren’t going to get Fury - Joshua either or at least won’t get it when it will still have any meaning attached to it.

We’re all mugs really for following a sport where the best fights don’t happen when they should for the most part.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Why is it that top sportsmen and women in Football, Tennis, Swimming, Athletics or Darts can have off days, can be marked out of the match, be carrying an injury or simply not in the right frame of mind etc., etc., but self acclaimed boxing pundits on here decide that Joshua beating Wallin shows that Wallins not great, that Wilder falling to Parker is because he was never any good. That Fury not feeling 'up for it' means he's scared?

It's clear that Fury is a coward who can't fight

Gotta few pals in the pub who would beat him, but he is scared to fight them

It seems that he will only fight if he is paid a lot of money to do so, pussy...

A few pals down the pub lol......

The late great Freddy King once said to me, professional Boxing is business first, business second and business third. Get your head around that, start your own TV company and see how you match your mate down the pub when you have to pay the bills.

The only thing Fury has done is not fight when you want him to which is exactly the same as every other fighter I can think of.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Why is it that top sportsmen and women in Football, Tennis, Swimming, Athletics or Darts can have off days, can be marked out of the match, be carrying an injury or simply not in the right frame of mind etc., etc., but self acclaimed boxing pundits on here decide that Joshua beating Wallin shows that Wallins not great, that Wilder falling to Parker is because he was never any good. That Fury not feeling 'up for it' means he's scared?

What has Wallin done to suggest he is great then?

In the last 5 years Parker has lost to Joshua, Whyte, Joyce. He has basically lost each time he stepped up. He is a solid operator for sure - but like Chisora, he is best described as a gatekeeper.

You miss the point. Wallin doesn't have to be considered great and just needs a good enough record to make up one half of the fight. He was 29 and 1.
If he took Joshua to a points decision, AJ would be called shite. If AJ knocked him out, or got knocked out himself in the first round, one or the other would be labelled as shite by the armchair experts on here.

Parker performs well, Wilder is shite. Wilder knocks him out Parker is shite! Fury is a coward, Dubois a bottle job, Chisora a gatekeeper, Joyce is limited and round and zero credit is given.

[dr_devious]

I think last Saturday was about whose got what left at this stage of their careers rather than A beat B but got beaten by C in 2015 etc.

[Coco]

Why is it that top sportsmen and women in Football, Tennis, Swimming, Athletics or Darts can have off days, can be marked out of the match, be carrying an injury or simply not in the right frame of mind etc., etc., but self acclaimed boxing pundits on here decide that Joshua beating Wallin shows that Wallins not great, that Wilder falling to Parker is because he was never any good. That Fury not feeling 'up for it' means he's scared?

It's clear that Fury is a coward who can't fight

Gotta few pals in the pub who would beat him, but he is scared to fight them

It seems that he will only fight if he is paid a lot of money to do so, pussy...

A few pals down the pub lol......

The late great Freddy King once said to me, professional Boxing is business first, business second and business third. Get your head around that, start your own TV company and see how you match your mate down the pub when you have to pay the bills.

The only thing Fury has done is not fight when you want him to which is exactly the same as every other fighter I can think of.

Whooooosh

[coneye]

Theres no doubting the bad performances from Wilder and Wallin , have devalued Furys wins over them . But before anyone runs out and puts there house and savings down , betting against fury you may want to remember a few things , and this is coming from Me who will admit i;m not a big Fury fan ,

Firstly Fury is a student of the game , and credit where its due his dad knows a bit about it too , now even though we can all say Klitchko was past it , Klitchko had measles , whatever , the fact does remain he bEAT kLITCHKO WHEN OTHERS WERE TO SCARED TO TRY or could'nt .

Same goes for Wilder has well , now we all know styles make fights , and Fury is waaay to big to fight Wilder the same way has Parker , Wilder a few years ago while he i said then was poor with a bad resume , he was quicker , looser and not has gunshy a few years ago and much more likely to catch you , he also threw left hands in them days ,

Common denominator Fury studied them both went in and beat them both when no one else could , brings us to the others , gatekeepers such has Chisora and Whyte , he did'nt beat them he totaly shown them up to be useless really .

Now that can bring us to Wallin and Ngoumba or whatever his name is . Fury besides being a student of the game also believes he's the King , top that with the fact i think he's got a few screws loose , not mentally unhinged but deinetly something wrong there , and i think concentrating for what he considers a big fight is easy for him to the extent he will become absolutly focused , and studying the opponent , now on the other hand , i doubt he can focus or even train hard for someone he considers far inferior , such has Wallen and the kickboxer fella , and in both these fights he's paid a price , he got cut with Wallin and lets be hnest it was anasty cut , and he got dropped with the other fells , but on both occasions he rose to the task and won easy on points . he just was'nt focused on the guys he considers inferior .

Now does that make him a better boxer NO , Fury is not has good has his fans would have you believe , but he's not has bad has his haters say either ,

What i do know , or rather think is Fury has to be focused and when he is , you have a very big guy who can box , can move and his slippery to hit , he can jab he can lean and he has a lifetime of experience .

Bet against Fury by all means , but be CAREFUL HOW MUCH YOU BET , he's not finished yet

[KiwiRider]

I can only afford a fiver Coneye
Fury is either going to take this fight with Usyk, or retire.
And I don't know if his ego can take losing to Usyk, which is a genuine possibility.

[tonyevs]

Firstly Fury is a student of the game , and credit where its due his dad knows a bit about it too , now even though we can all say Klitchko was past it , Klitchko had measles , whatever , the fact does remain he bEAT kLITCHKO WHEN OTHERS WERE TO SCARED TO TRY or could'nt .

I can't agree sorry. Fury is a huge guy who uses his size to great affect. Credit goes to him for that, but he hasn't demonstrated he is a student of the game at all, and whilst his father knows a bit - he certainly isn't as knowledgeable as Peter Fury. Of course Tyson has had to alter his style with the blubber he has put on, but the fundamentals are exactly the same.

Others too scared to fight Klitschko?
60+ had done so professionally, 3 of those had actually KO'd Wlad too.
And after 60+ fights and nearly 40yrs old Wlad was really at the end of a very long career.

[coneye]

Firstly Fury is a student of the game , and credit where its due his dad knows a bit about it too , now even though we can all say Klitchko was past it , Klitchko had measles , whatever , the fact does remain he bEAT kLITCHKO WHEN OTHERS WERE TO SCARED TO TRY or could'nt .

I can't agree sorry. Fury is a huge guy who uses his size to great affect. Credit goes to him for that, but he hasn't demonstrated he is a student of the game at all, and whilst his father knows a bit - he certainly isn't as knowledgeable as Peter Fury. Of course Tyson has had to alter his style with the blubber he has put on, but the fundamentals are exactly the same.

Others too scared to fight Klitschko?
60+ had done so professionally, 3 of those had actually KO'd Wlad too.
And after 60+ fights and nearly 40yrs old Wlad was really at the end of a very long career.

Prior to training with Sugar Tyson would move and switch hit a lot , bit of his downfall in the first fight with Wilder really , he listened to davidson and was reculant to use his size and weight , remember AJ did'nt have a crack until AFTER fury shown the way , Vlad was on the slide it became obvious AFTER Tyson shown the way .

Jeezus who would of thought me defending Fury i don't even like the fella , he's ruining heavyweight boxing ,, Just saying though even though he's being found out , he's not that great , something i've said for years ,, be careful what you bet on him losing ,, he's stil better than a lot are thinking , and given the correct motivation he can rise

[joshj909]

Firstly Fury is a student of the game , and credit where its due his dad knows a bit about it too , now even though we can all say Klitchko was past it , Klitchko had measles , whatever , the fact does remain he bEAT kLITCHKO WHEN OTHERS WERE TO SCARED TO TRY or could'nt .

I can't agree sorry. Fury is a huge guy who uses his size to great affect. Credit goes to him for that, but he hasn't demonstrated he is a student of the game at all, and whilst his father knows a bit - he certainly isn't as knowledgeable as Peter Fury. Of course Tyson has had to alter his style with the blubber he has put on, but the fundamentals are exactly the same.

Others too scared to fight Klitschko?
60+ had done so professionally, 3 of those had actually KO'd Wlad too.
And after 60+ fights and nearly 40yrs old Wlad was really at the end of a very long career.

Prior to training with Sugar Tyson would move and switch hit a lot , bit of his downfall in the first fight with Wilder really , he listened to davidson and was reculant to use his size and weight , remember AJ did'nt have a crack until AFTER fury shown the way , Vlad was on the slide it became obvious AFTER Tyson shown the way .

Jeezus who would of thought me defending Fury i don't even like the fella , he's ruining heavyweight boxing ,, Just saying though even though he's being found out , he's not that great , something i've said for years ,, be careful what you bet on him losing ,, he's stil better than a lot are thinking , and given the correct motivation he can rise

AJ only fought Klitschko after Fury showed him the way to do it but then AJ proceeded to fight a completely different fight against Klitschko? And it was only because Fury had shown him the way that he chose to fight Klitschko? That's also bollocks. Bear in mind that Joshua wasn't even World Champ or even British champ when Klitschko/Fury was getting lined up. He'd only been a pro for 2 years and his best win was Kevin Johnson. How was he going to give it a go before Fury fought him?

[stujones]

Fury showed Joshua the way to beat Klitchsko?

It was a razor tight decision and Fury's camp looked the most suprised people in the house - but then it became a schooling. Infact the Judges probably gave it wider than most journalists.

Glen McCory gave Fury the last round I think to score the fight either a draw or to Fury by a round - and there is no way Fury won that round.

Daily Mail live card was 115-113 - so a one round swing.

I have no problem with anyone scoring it for Fury, likewise I actually have no problem with anyone scoring it a draw or even for Klitchscko - but it seems like now Fury won every second of every round with one hand tied behind his back.

Even Glen McCory's report for sky post fight said "Most people will back Klitschsko in the rematch, but I do not see it that way". That is hardly the report of a Fury schooling.