Ratings - please read before commenting

[margaret thatcher]

etoundi michel mighty high too

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/793452

[computerrank]

That does seem awfully peculiar.... expected a bug to be responsible for that one... Tanzania not exactly a hot spot for boxing.

#5 Fadhili Majiha with best recent performance of 9.613 against Bongani Mahlangu
#6 Ryosuke Nishida with best recent performance 9.365 of against Christian Medina
#7 Vincent Astrolabio with best recent performance of 9.305 against Jason Moloney
#8 Nonito Donaire with best performance of 8.893 against Alexandro Santiago

[jujigatame]

Is there some sort of prorating going on? I'm surprised Astrolabio's big win isn't Rigo.

[computerrank]

Is there some sort of prorating going on? I'm surprised Astrolabio's big win isn't Rigo.

The value of Astrolabio's performance in his win against Rigondeaux 23 months ago dropped by 50% after 18 months and by another 17% since then.

[JCS]

Is there some sort of prorating going on? I'm surprised Astrolabio's big win isn't Rigo.

The time-based penalties are pretty rough in this system. I much preferred the results when they eased up on that during the pandemic...

[jujigatame]

Yea that is quite harsh and I would think it makes the ratings very volatile.

[JCS]

Yea that is quite harsh and I would think it makes the ratings very volatile.

I think it is a bit pretentious to enforce harsh penalties on things like this.....

If it were one of the major sanctioning bodies sure... but you can't expect the boxing community to matchmake based on the inactivity parameters on BoxRec... things like this need to be lenient.

[SeanBrennan]

how can the ratings have Eubank at 1 and Smith at 2?

[margaret thatcher]

jr has been overrated by boxrec ffor years, smith beating him made smith overrated now too, dont think anywhere else has liam smith ahead of say jani.

middle is generally weak too

[JCS]

IBO, the "other" software-based ranking site... has it the same, Eubank #1, Smith #2

BUT.. they do not rank major belt holders... they stick them in a tier above, which is strange. In this case, that includes Lara, one of the Charlos and the Kazakh.

[SeanBrennan]

do Boxrec use a recognised methodology or calculation?

[omalley]

how can the ratings have Eubank at 1 and Smith at 2?

Gilberto Ramirez at #1 boxrec at CW is much much harder to justify.

[SeanBrennan]

how can the ratings have Eubank at 1 and Smith at 2?

Gilberto Ramirez at #1 boxrec at CW is much much harder to justify.

he did at least win and defend one of the 4 alleged titles. And only lost to Bivol. Eubank is worlds away imo

[omalley]

how can the ratings have Eubank at 1 and Smith at 2?

Gilberto Ramirez at #1 boxrec at CW is much much harder to justify.

he did at least win and defend one of the 4 alleged titles. And only lost to Bivol. Eubank is worlds away imo

Yes, he did - five years ago at SMW.
Ramirez lost badly at LHW and what did he do after that at CW? Nothing. 1 (one) fight against another terribly beaten LHW boxer at a catchweight 193 lbs.

[SeanBrennan]

Gilberto Ramirez at #1 boxrec at CW is much much harder to justify.

he did at least win and defend one of the 4 alleged titles. And only lost to Bivol. Eubank is worlds away imo

Yes, he did - five years ago at SMW.
Ramirez lost badly at LHW and what did he do after that at CW? Nothing. 1 (one) fight against another terribly beaten LHW boxer at a catchweight 193 lbs.

but if your only loss is to Bivol who beat the P4P, there is worlds apart between you and Eubank, who lost at European level to an unfit BJS, and then at world level to a knackered Groves, and then to Smith who was just about done.

[SportsRatings]

IBO, the "other" software-based ranking site... has it the same, Eubank #1, Smith #2

BUT.. they do not rank major belt holders... they stick them in a tier above, which is strange. In this case, that includes Lara, one of the Charlos and the Kazakh.

Don't they do that bc its "tradition" among Belt orgs to not rank each other's champions? The IBO actually does sanctioning of fights and takes fees, and apparently in that world you don't rank each others champs.

[Manrae]

Ramirez, Tszyu, and Eubank have no logical claim as #1

None.

[computerrank]

Ramirez, Tszyu, and Eubank have no logical claim as #1

None.

This is no thread for talking about titles. This is also no thread for opinion based discussions about this or the other boxer ranking, This is a thread for discussing the BoxRec Ratings rules.

[omalley]

he did at least win and defend one of the 4 alleged titles. And only lost to Bivol. Eubank is worlds away imo

Yes, he did - five years ago at SMW.
Ramirez lost badly at LHW and what did he do after that at CW? Nothing. 1 (one) fight against another terribly beaten LHW boxer at a catchweight 193 lbs.

but if your only loss is to Bivol who beat the P4P, there is worlds apart between you and Eubank, who lost at European level to an unfit BJS, and then at world level to a knackered Groves, and then to Smith who was just about done.

We don't compare Eubank and Ramirez directly, H2H, do you hear me?
We talk about current situation in the MW and the CW divisions and how Eubank and Ramirez are connected with these weight classes respectively.
Ramirez has never ever fought a CW boxer. He has not fought a single bout at the full weight limit of the CW still. He was a title holder 5 years ago at SMW, 32 lbs/14,5 kg below the CW limit. He did not fought any top-10 boxer at LHW, except Bivol, and he was humiliated in that bout. Yes, he has only lost to Bivol, but who has he beaten?

The MW division is weak now, the top boxers there are either extremely inactive or have low level opposition.
Yes, Eubank has losses, but BJS and Groves are by no means any “bums”, they had well known achievements. And Eubank jr has good wins.

#1 MW for Chris Eubank Jr is too high, but it is quite possible to put him in the top-5, maybe top-3, I have no strong objections to this.
Gilberto Ramirez is not a CW boxer at all by now.

[omalley]

Ramirez, Tszyu, and Eubank have no logical claim as #1
None.

This is no thread for talking about titles. This is also no thread for opinion based discussions about this or the other boxer ranking, This is a thread for discussing the BoxRec Ratings rules.

Of course you are right, but sometimes the result of applying the BoxRec Ratings rules is so shocking ...
The BoxRec Ratings is a model that trying to adequately describe the Boxing Universe. We understand that there is no ideal model, there are always advantages and drawbacks.
But when not a single boxing fan, not a single boxing expert, no one accepts the result, produced by Boxrec algorithm - doesn't that mean that some parameters of the model should be adjusted?

[computerrank]

Ramirez, Tszyu, and Eubank have no logical claim as #1
None.

This is no thread for talking about titles. This is also no thread for opinion based discussions about this or the other boxer ranking, This is a thread for discussing the BoxRec Ratings rules.

Of course you are right, but sometimes the result of applying the BoxRec Ratings rules is so shocking ...
The BoxRec Ratings is a model that trying to adequately describe the Boxing Universe. We understand that there is no ideal model, there are always advantages and drawbacks.
But when not a single boxing fan, not a single boxing expert, no one accepts the result, produced by Boxrec algorithm - doesn't that mean that some parameters of the model should be adjusted?

I don't think there isn't a single boxing fan or boxing expert, who accepts that result. Even more, I think,, there are a lot of them. Maybe it is a question, whether there are more in favour of the result or against it.

And yes the BoxRec algorithm results always must be inspected, whether certain results are explainable in terms of the current rules. And that is, what i regularly do, when I get knowledge of such concerns. But Eubank's, Tszyu's and Ramirez' BoxRec rankings are just plausible regarding the current rules.

[omalley]

This is no thread for talking about titles. This is also no thread for opinion based discussions about this or the other boxer ranking, This is a thread for discussing the BoxRec Ratings rules.

Of course you are right, but sometimes the result of applying the BoxRec Ratings rules is so shocking ...
The BoxRec Ratings is a model that trying to adequately describe the Boxing Universe. We understand that there is no ideal model, there are always advantages and drawbacks.
But when not a single boxing fan, not a single boxing expert, no one accepts the result, produced by Boxrec algorithm - doesn't that mean that some parameters of the model should be adjusted?

I don't think there isn't a single boxing fan or boxing expert, who accepts that result. Even more, I think,, there are a lot of them. Maybe it is a question, whether there are more in favour of the result or against it.

And yes the BoxRec algorithm results always must be inspected, whether certain results are explainable in terms of the current rules. And that is, what i regularly do, when I get knowledge of such concerns. But Eubank's, Tszyu's and Ramirez' BoxRec rankings are just plausible regarding the current rules.

I didn't mean to say that the experts and fans reject the BoxRec Ratings as a whole. But some results of applying the BoxRec Ratings rules are nevertheless shocking.
I bet you will not find anyone who considers Ramirez #1 at Cruiserweight now. It just contradicts reality. And when you say that Ramirez' BoxRec rankings are plausible regarding the current rules, and all is OK, it means that BoxRec is trying to create its own alternative reality that obeys the BoxRec Ratings rules.
It doesn't work that way.
Maybe some minor parameters of the BoxRec Ratings rules can be adjusted after all?

[JCS]

The Ramirez thing is pretty simple to explain and understand.. Martin can confirm but...

I suspect LHW on average, is a much stronger division than CW. Sanchez's points were converted from LHW to CW.... which makes him the top CW as his remaining points (+ win over Smith if that matters) were more than everyone else's.

This has long been a "problem" of rating fighters in a sport like boxing where there are multiple weight classes. You either have to adjust for the averages, or come up with some other method.

Ramirez could indeed prove himself as the tops in the division and justify his position... or the opposite could happen... we might see or we might not...

It might be most accurate to say that Ramirez is the best boxer currently ranked at CW... and not that Ramirez is the best CW, if that makes sense...

[computerrank]

The Ramirez thing is pretty simple to explain and understand.. Martin can confirm but...

I suspect LHW on average, is a much stronger division than CW. Sanchez's points were converted from LHW to CW.... which makes him the top CW as his remaining points (+ win over Smith if that matters) were more than everyone else's.

This has long been a "problem" of rating fighters in a sport like boxing where there are multiple weight classes. You either have to adjust for the averages, or come up with some other method.

Ramirez could indeed prove himself as the tops in the division and justify his position... or the opposite could happen... we might see or we might not...

It might be most accurate to say that Ramirez is the best boxer currently ranked at CW... and not that Ramirez is the best CW, if that makes sense...

Jason, I guess, that describes very well, how the current BoxRec ratings work

[Manrae]

The Ramirez thing is pretty simple to explain and understand.. Martin can confirm but...

I suspect LHW on average, is a much stronger division than CW. Sanchez's points were converted from LHW to CW.... which makes him the top CW as his remaining points (+ win over Smith if that matters) were more than everyone else's.

This has long been a "problem" of rating fighters in a sport like boxing where there are multiple weight classes. You either have to adjust for the averages, or come up with some other method.

Ramirez could indeed prove himself as the tops in the division and justify his position... or the opposite could happen... we might see or we might not...

It might be most accurate to say that Ramirez is the best boxer currently ranked at CW... and not that Ramirez is the best CW, if that makes sense...

A lot of things COULD happen... does that justify his ranking as the number 1 Cruiser right now?