Ratings - please read before commenting

[Manrae]

Of course you are right, but sometimes the result of applying the BoxRec Ratings rules is so shocking ...
The BoxRec Ratings is a model that trying to adequately describe the Boxing Universe. We understand that there is no ideal model, there are always advantages and drawbacks.
But when not a single boxing fan, not a single boxing expert, no one accepts the result, produced by Boxrec algorithm - doesn't that mean that some parameters of the model should be adjusted?

I don't think there isn't a single boxing fan or boxing expert, who accepts that result. Even more, I think,, there are a lot of them. Maybe it is a question, whether there are more in favour of the result or against it.

And yes the BoxRec algorithm results always must be inspected, whether certain results are explainable in terms of the current rules. And that is, what i regularly do, when I get knowledge of such concerns. But Eubank's, Tszyu's and Ramirez' BoxRec rankings are just plausible regarding the current rules.

I didn't mean to say that the experts and fans reject the BoxRec Ratings as a whole. But some results of applying the BoxRec Ratings rules are nevertheless shocking.
I bet you will not find anyone who considers Ramirez #1 at Cruiserweight now. It just contradicts reality. And when you say that Ramirez' BoxRec rankings are plausible regarding the current rules, and all is OK, it means that BoxRec is trying to create its own alternative reality that obeys the BoxRec Ratings rules.
It doesn't work that way.
Maybe some minor parameters of the BoxRec Ratings rules can be adjusted after all?

This.

[JCS]

The Ramirez thing is pretty simple to explain and understand.. Martin can confirm but...

I suspect LHW on average, is a much stronger division than CW. Sanchez's points were converted from LHW to CW.... which makes him the top CW as his remaining points (+ win over Smith if that matters) were more than everyone else's.

This has long been a "problem" of rating fighters in a sport like boxing where there are multiple weight classes. You either have to adjust for the averages, or come up with some other method.

Ramirez could indeed prove himself as the tops in the division and justify his position... or the opposite could happen... we might see or we might not...

It might be most accurate to say that Ramirez is the best boxer currently ranked at CW... and not that Ramirez is the best CW, if that makes sense...

A lot of things COULD happen... does that justify his ranking as the number 1 Cruiser right now?

Read the last sentence of my post.

[computerrank]

The Ramirez thing is pretty simple to explain and understand.. Martin can confirm but...

I suspect LHW on average, is a much stronger division than CW. Sanchez's points were converted from LHW to CW.... which makes him the top CW as his remaining points (+ win over Smith if that matters) were more than everyone else's.

This has long been a "problem" of rating fighters in a sport like boxing where there are multiple weight classes. You either have to adjust for the averages, or come up with some other method.

Ramirez could indeed prove himself as the tops in the division and justify his position... or the opposite could happen... we might see or we might not...

It might be most accurate to say that Ramirez is the best boxer currently ranked at CW... and not that Ramirez is the best CW, if that makes sense...

A lot of things COULD happen... does that justify his ranking as the number 1 Cruiser right now?

Read the last sentence of my post.

Regarding the BoxRec ratings as JCS said, there are 2 points you should keep in mind:
- The BoxRec ratings rate every boxer in the division the editors assign him to. The rating points are converted from one division to the other by a conversion formula depending on the division weight limits. Rating points from a lower division convert to less ratings points in a higher division and vice versa.
- The editors are expected to assign a boxer to the weight division, where the boxer intents to fight in - by evidence of his own or his manager's statement.

[JCS]

Martin... Curious question...

Instead of using a conversion formula (based on math strictly using division weights)... have you tried to do conversions based on the perceived "strength" of the division(s) involved? There are probably a number of ways you could do that.... and I imagine many complications with that... This goes on the premise that a boxer has more points to gain from a stronger division... instead of a boxer being stronger just because he has more points. Maybe the real truth is something in between?? But...

Example....

Boxer A recognized as LHW with 50 points. Average boxer ranked between 10 and 25, has 20 points.

He moves to CW... Average boxer ranked between 10 and 25, has 10 points... one-half of 20...

Boxer A gets converted from 50 to 25 points... and perhaps gets an additional slight reduction for the move up in weight..

Wondering how prediction rates would react..

[computerrank]

Martin... Curious question...

Instead of using a conversion formula (based on math strictly using division weights)... have you tried to do conversions based on the perceived "strength" of the division(s) involved? There are probably a number of ways you could do that.... and I imagine many complications with that... This goes on the premise that a boxer has more points to gain from a stronger division... instead of a boxer being stronger just because he has more points. Maybe the real truth is something in between?? But...

Example....

Boxer A recognized as LHW with 50 points. Average boxer ranked between 10 and 25, has 20 points.

He moves to CW... Average boxer ranked between 10 and 25, has 10 points... one-half of 20...

Boxer A gets converted from 50 to 25 points... and perhaps gets an additional slight reduction for the move up in weight..

Wondering how prediction rates would react..

Jason, the division ratings conversion does not influence the predictions. The WHR ratings are based on the absolute strength of the fighters.

When a Welterweight is boxing against a Light Welterweight there is no compensation of the result for any weight or weight division difference. The absolute ratings tend to result in lower values for the Light Welterweights, because they will tend to loose against Welterweights due to their weight disadvantage.

Only for the purpose to make the division ratings comparable regarding p4p considerations, the absolute ratings are converted by a factor depending on the divisions weight limits.

[pelhwan]

Why isn't this guy on the rankings despite being active?

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/768670

[computerrank]

Why isn't this guy on the rankings despite being active?

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/768670

Done ...

[JCS]

Martin... Curious question...

Instead of using a conversion formula (based on math strictly using division weights)... have you tried to do conversions based on the perceived "strength" of the division(s) involved? There are probably a number of ways you could do that.... and I imagine many complications with that... This goes on the premise that a boxer has more points to gain from a stronger division... instead of a boxer being stronger just because he has more points. Maybe the real truth is something in between?? But...

Example....

Boxer A recognized as LHW with 50 points. Average boxer ranked between 10 and 25, has 20 points.

He moves to CW... Average boxer ranked between 10 and 25, has 10 points... one-half of 20...

Boxer A gets converted from 50 to 25 points... and perhaps gets an additional slight reduction for the move up in weight..

Wondering how prediction rates would react..

Jason, the division ratings conversion does not influence the predictions. The WHR ratings are based on the absolute strength of the fighters.

When a Welterweight is boxing against a Light Welterweight there is no compensation of the result for any weight or weight division difference. The absolute ratings tend to result in lower values for the Light Welterweights, because they will tend to loose against Welterweights due to their weight disadvantage.

Only for the purpose to make the division ratings comparable regarding p4p considerations, the absolute ratings are converted by a factor depending on the divisions weight limits.

Got it...

Did you ever try anything like I suggested with the older systems?

[SportsRatings]

Of course you are right, but sometimes the result of applying the BoxRec Ratings rules is so shocking ...
The BoxRec Ratings is a model that trying to adequately describe the Boxing Universe. We understand that there is no ideal model, there are always advantages and drawbacks.
But when not a single boxing fan, not a single boxing expert, no one accepts the result, produced by Boxrec algorithm - doesn't that mean that some parameters of the model should be adjusted?

I don't think there isn't a single boxing fan or boxing expert, who accepts that result. Even more, I think,, there are a lot of them. Maybe it is a question, whether there are more in favour of the result or against it.

And yes the BoxRec algorithm results always must be inspected, whether certain results are explainable in terms of the current rules. And that is, what i regularly do, when I get knowledge of such concerns. But Eubank's, Tszyu's and Ramirez' BoxRec rankings are just plausible regarding the current rules.

I didn't mean to say that the experts and fans reject the BoxRec Ratings as a whole. But some results of applying the BoxRec Ratings rules are nevertheless shocking.
I bet you will not find anyone who considers Ramirez #1 at Cruiserweight now. It just contradicts reality. And when you say that Ramirez' BoxRec rankings are plausible regarding the current rules, and all is OK, it means that BoxRec is trying to create its own alternative reality that obeys the BoxRec Ratings rules.
It doesn't work that way.
Maybe some minor parameters of the BoxRec Ratings rules can be adjusted after all?

What kind of "rule" would that be? "If no one can be found that considers the BoxRec #1 the real #1, or if the ranking contradicts reality, then the #2 shall become #1 and the process is repeated"

[computerrank]

...
Did you ever try anything like I suggested with the older systems?

No, I didn't. Just trying to keep the system as simple as possible.

[pelhwan]

Why isn't this guy on the rankings despite being active?

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/768670

Done ...

He seems to have gone missing again

[computerrank]

Why isn't this guy on the rankings despite being active?

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/768670

Done ...

He seems to have gone missing again

done again ...

[Manrae]

The Ramirez thing is pretty simple to explain and understand.. Martin can confirm but...

I suspect LHW on average, is a much stronger division than CW. Sanchez's points were converted from LHW to CW.... which makes him the top CW as his remaining points (+ win over Smith if that matters) were more than everyone else's.

This has long been a "problem" of rating fighters in a sport like boxing where there are multiple weight classes. You either have to adjust for the averages, or come up with some other method.

Ramirez could indeed prove himself as the tops in the division and justify his position... or the opposite could happen... we might see or we might not...

It might be most accurate to say that Ramirez is the best boxer currently ranked at CW... and not that Ramirez is the best CW, if that makes sense...

A lot of things COULD happen... does that justify his ranking as the number 1 Cruiser right now?

Read the last sentence of my post.

Ramirez is the best boxer at CW? What sound argument can be made to make that claim? He defeated a former 175 champion making his CW debut after a year layoff? The "eye test"? What's your argument?

[JCS]

A lot of things COULD happen... does that justify his ranking as the number 1 Cruiser right now?

Read the last sentence of my post.

Ramirez is the best boxer at CW? What sound argument can be made to make that claim? He defeated a former 175 champion making his CW debut after a year layoff? The "eye test"? What's your argument?

Based it on how the current system works...

[Khash]

Please inform me , if a fighter with higher ranking fights a fighter with much lower ranking than his and he still wins over the lower ranked fighter, the winner might go lower in his ranking !?!

[computerrank]

Please inform me , if a fighter with higher ranking fights a fighter with much lower ranking than his and he still wins over the lower ranked fighter, the winner might go lower in his ranking !?!

Yes, in that case the winner's rating may go down, If the win is not a 100% win - that means, if it is a SD or MD or if the mean score difference per judge in relation to the number of rounds boxed is too small.

[Khash]

Would please clarify, if Boxer A with (has one and a half star) wins by KO over boxer B (half a star, or no star) will Boxer A that's the winner still end up lower in his rankings as to what his rating was prior to the matchup ?
In 'what if' section.
I match myself with a lower rated boxer and the rating it shows as the 'best outcome' is lower than the rating that I currently have !
Please let me know,
I appreciate it

[computerrank]

Would please clarify, if Boxer A with (has one and a half star) wins by KO over boxer B (half a star, or no star) will Boxer A that's the winner still end up lower in his rankings as to what his rating was prior to the matchup ?
In 'what if' section.
I match myself with a lower rated boxer and the rating it shows as the 'best outcome' is lower than the rating that I currently have !
Please let me know,
I appreciate it

That shouldn't happen in that case. Please send me a private message with your BoxRec ID and the BoxRec ID of your opponent chosen.

[computerrank]

Would please clarify, if Boxer A with (has one and a half star) wins by KO over boxer B (half a star, or no star) will Boxer A that's the winner still end up lower in his rankings as to what his rating was prior to the matchup ?
In 'what if' section.
I match myself with a lower rated boxer and the rating it shows as the 'best outcome' is lower than the rating that I currently have !
Please let me know,
I appreciate it

That shouldn't happen in that case. Please send me a private message with your BoxRec ID and the BoxRec ID of your opponent chosen.

Thanks Khash for your PM. I found the bug and fixed it. The correction release should go live the next days.

[Avdyl Salihu]

We from Arnold Gjergjaj's staff are very concerned with the last ranking you have achieved in Boxrec and we do not understand how it is possible to go from 54th position in the world ranking to 89th in just 1 week.

I think this should be reviewed by your staff and the same should be fixed because we are a big company who are investing maximum in our boxer and this deduction without any reason is giving us despair while it is affecting our boxer mentally expressing despair also for the future career.

We look forward to your positive response.

With respect from the staff of Arnold Gjergjaj

[margaret thatcher]

he's in despair because his boxrec ranking dropped?

[computerrank]

We from Arnold Gjergjaj's staff are very concerned with the last ranking you have achieved in Boxrec and we do not understand how it is possible to go from 54th position in the world ranking to 89th in just 1 week.

I think this should be reviewed by your staff and the same should be fixed because we are a big company who are investing maximum in our boxer and this deduction without any reason is giving us despair while it is affecting our boxer mentally expressing despair also for the future career.

We look forward to your positive response.

With respect from the staff of Arnold Gjergjaj

Gjergia's rating was based upon his performance against Bilal Laggoune - then #68. Now Laggoune lost a RTD against Artem Suslenkov on 2024-02-03 and dropped to #104. By that Gjergia's rating dropped too.

[jujigatame]

I know this is probably not something you can do anything about, but the lack of the Rakhimov vs. Nunez fight is creating a very glaring issue with the ratings at 130.

[computerrank]

I know this is probably not something you can do anything about, but the lack of the Rakhimov vs. Nunez fight is creating a very glaring issue with the ratings at 130.

The bout is still in clarifying state.

[jujigatame]

I know this is probably not something you can do anything about, but the lack of the Rakhimov vs. Nunez fight is creating a very glaring issue with the ratings at 130.

The bout is still in clarifying state.

Understood. I guess the sanctioning situation was somewhat unclear? I remember noticing the card wasn't listed.