Benny Leonard- How good was he ?

[Caractacus]

some say he was the greatest light-weight of all time.
and some say the even say, the greatest 'pound-for-pound" boxer of all time (?)

[Caractacus]

[Seamus]

Toss up between him and Henry Armstrong for greatest Lightweight of alltime. Unbelievably active, even for his era.

[goose 5]

Great, great fighter but Ike Williams was the greatest lightweight to ever draw a breath.

[Caractacus]

-1918-

[jwfg]

#1 lightweight of all time for my money.

[cfang]

Duran for me

[Ambling Alp II]

Nobody stands out as this weight class. Benny Leonard has a good case. You could argue for Joe Gans as well.

[Caractacus]

Archie Moore once said he had Joe Gans just edge out Benny Leonard,
for his all-time greatest lightweights.

[Ezzard]

Leonard, Armstrong, Gans, Duran, Whittaker...

You can chose your own order.

[Ambling Alp II]

He was also one of only 24 fighters to be picked in the first two rounds of the prestigious BoxRec HOF.

[Caractacus]

Benny Leonard's nickname was "The Ghetto Wizard"
( but can you imagine him trying to use that moniker these days ?)

[Caractacus]

the thing I remember hearing about Benny Leonard, that always stuck in my mind.
When he was lightweight Champion back in 1917-1924.
He was so proud of his patent leather hair comb,
that whenever he went back to his corner during the rounds,
he had one of his seconds there with a comb ready
to make sure his hair was right before the bell rang for the next round.
he didnt like his hair mussed, it was more important then the purse to him !

[Crease]

Great learns from Great - Gene Tunney learnt his trade at the elbow of Benny Leonard.

[Caractacus]

at Grupp's gymnasium in Harlem New York City
( back when it was a predomately White neighbourhood)

[Caractacus]

what is the best book out there about Benny Leonard ?
what about the one by Nat Fleischer (1947), is it any good ?
Did benny Leonard ever write (or plan to write) an autobiography ?

[Caractacus]

[elmersalsa]

The great Benny Leonard was very good. But, he wasn't better than the great Roberto Duran.

[Caractacus]

don't know about Duran, but
the great boxing trainer Ray Arcel ( who helped train Benny Leonard
for his comeback in the 1930's)
once said that Sugar Ray Leonard couldn't carry Benny Leonards 'jock-strap"
( or words to that effect anyway)

[elmersalsa]

Nobody stands out as this weight class. Benny Leonard has a good case. You could argue for Joe Gans as well.

Gans, Duran, Leonard, Williams. All have a case.

Gans for me. Very few fighters had it as tough as he did and still had dominant success. He invented a lot of boxing techniques.

The great Joe Gans was one of the first boxing masters. I rate him at #2 at lightweight behind the great Roberto Duran.

At pound per pound, I rate him at #11 all time.

[elmersalsa]

Gans, Duran, Leonard, Williams. All have a case.

Gans for me. Very few fighters had it as tough as he did and still had dominant success. He invented a lot of boxing techniques.

The great Joe Gans was one of the first boxing masters. I rate him at #2 at lightweight behind the great Roberto Duran.

At pound per pound, I rate him at #11 all time.

He’d have beaten Duran a lot more convincingly than DeJesus did. I’d rate Duran 4 at lightweight, there’s a chance Gans would make him quit like Leonard did.

Yeah, right. Not even you believe that. Not with those primitive skills ain't beating the great Roberto Duran.

[goose 5]

Agreed . Gans was great in his day but he ain't doing anything against Duran except get blown out.

[Expug]

don't know about Duran, but
the great boxing trainer Ray Arcel ( who helped train Benny Leonard
for his comeback in the 1930's)
once said that Sugar Ray Leonard couldn't carry Benny Leonards 'jock-strap"
( or words to that effect anyway)

Arcel also said the best pure boxer he’d seen was Benny Valgar. I wasn’t crazy about Sugar Ray, largely because how he jerked Hagler around, flying him out to wherever he flew him to , DC I believe just to tell him they were not gonna fight. Narcissistic. Anyway, he was still a great fighter. I don’t see comparing him that unfavorably to anyone.

[pound per pound]

some say he was the greatest light-weight of all time.
and some say the even say, the greatest 'pound-for-pound" boxer of all time (?)

The term ATG is used too often, but Leonard was one of them. He beat very good competition, fought all styles, lost seldom, did not duck anyone, fought often, and the color line need not apply with him.

He lost some of his early fights, but he was only 15. By 1917 he was 20, and basically done losing.

[Caractacus]

BTW Last month (June.15.) was the 100th anniversary of Benny Leonard announcing his retirement
as the Undefeated Lightweight Champion of the World.