Dana White

[Fray Bentos]

Can I please ask that when you say ‘my original point was’ - you actually quote me?

I didn’t say White would find it hard because it’s competitive. Boxing is a competitive market though where fighters are paid more than their commercial worth. That’s something that I genuinely can’t remember White ever doing with the UFC.

Influencers don’t get PPV dates because they’re competitive and it’s boxing. They get PPV dates because they have some of them massive profiles and it’s boxing.

Also TV networks would happily show an influencer/YouTube football match if the they gave them the opportunity. They care about ratings which based on the 60k attendance and online views it would deliver. They wouldn’t be able to compete with the amount of views they had from streaming it on YouTube though which is the modern world.

What you said is there, go back and read and anyone else can do the same, you said that boxing in the US is too 'competitive' for Dana White to compete in and that purses for top fighters have been but that's always has been the case, when has that not been the case? Once you had a champion per one of the eight weight divisions and now you have 56 or whatever - this is the easiest time in boxing history for him to be a promoter - he has the means, he doesn't have to deal with the mafia, he doesn't have to deal with newspaper editors and newspaper decisions, colour bars, male only dominance and of course we have the internet and satellite/cable TV with PPV's that reach every part of the planet, also, boxing is now more than a worldwide sport than it ever has been in anytime in history - we don't have to go back 40 years and boxers didn't come from Kazakhstan or Latvia or the Congo or that they held big fights in Poland, Saudi Arabia and China.

The top - let's be generous - the top twenty boxers earn millions whereas the rest don't - 99% of boxers don't earn megabucks which is why Mairis Bredis is shilling for a fight with Jake Paul and not Chris Billam Smith. The reason they're not earning the money they should be is because they're not fighting each other, there are too many champions, too many titles, interim, international blah blah blah - the sport is in a unholy mess and people are just switching off from it, I don't remember the last time I paid for a PPV but it was years ago - the sport isn't value for money anymore.

If influencers get PPV for solely for who are they are then they would get PPV dates for their games of football but they don't, why? Well, as we have already established, boxing and MMA are the biggest PPV draws that there is and b) to enjoy boxing - the skill level doesn't have to be as high as it would for a game of football as long as they get a good scrap - the ordinary punter is not shelling out PPV money to watch KSI clodhopper about White Hart Lane badly hoofing a ball around but they will to watch him put in a decent shift against Logan Paul - you keep saying that if they 'get the opportunity' but who is stopping them getting the 'opportunity'? A TV network has yet to 'happily' show a game as part of their schedule, I wonder why?

I ask you to quote me and one of the first things you say is..

you said that boxing in the US is too 'competitive' for Dana White to compete in

At no point did I say that!

It’s hard to have a conversation with someone when they’re reading something differently than what is written.

I said boxing is a competitive market in the Us whereby fighters are paid more than their commercial worth. Hence many networks have left the sport because they haven’t been able to generate an upside.

Of course Dana can compete. I just can’t see him/TKO wanting to at the moment given that TKo would have likely have to burn a lot of money before they make a return. When Dana got involved with the UFC, the UFC had a massive competitive advantage over the other US MMA organisations and it was well known (although not successful).

Re: a TV network not showing influencer football, it’s likely because the influencers/YouTubers are likely to get 5 or 10 times more viewers having their stuff on YouTube than a linear TV channel. Linear TV is a declining market. In the US alone, viewer numbers on linear TV were down 9% as more and more people switch to watching via digital platforms.

Sure, here you go!

" How can he though? (obviously promote successfully in the US market because this follows) Boxing promotion in the US is massively competitive for the top fighters (so the US market is massively competitive, which it is - you're right, there is more boxing in the United States than there is anywhere in the world on any given day - but let's just stick to the top fighters - how many 'top fighters' in the United States make more than his top earner of 5 million dollars a fight - it is probably about a dozen or so that pull more than 5 million a fight regularly). The UFC built a great brand which they'd struggle to take advantage of with boxing and are notorious for paying fighters less than they should."

So I haven't took your words out of context - how can he compete because the US market is 'massively' competitive for top fighters, it is exactly what you said. I don't know what his plans are for boxing if he enters and neither do you. He might underpay them but if he manages and promotes these fighters on the way up to the top and he is managing and promoting them, he'll get a bigger cut of their purses and thus make more money - if he gets a world heavyweight champion who gets a 75 million purse from the Saudis then he gets a bigger percentage from him than his 5 million dollar a fight UFC guy. Saying that, most boxers and even most world champions are not on million dollars purses as in 99% of boxers, do you think Chris Billam Smith gets five million dollar purses defending at that stadium in Bournemouth? It is a very few boxers - no more than twenty and that is a generous estimate are getting more than top UFC guy at five million a fight.

You didn't say boxing was a 'competitive market' you said it was a 'massively competitive market' and how can Dana White prosper despite it's about 20 fighters in that market making massive bucks, the rest of them simply aren't - the reason why the networks are leaving is because the product is crap, there are interim champions, super champions, champions we have never heard of, hometown verdicts and protected records - I think most of us are sick of modern boxing, are you not sick of it? We all want the same thing - for the best to be fighting the best and just the one world title but we're nowhere near it, that's why networks and fans are leaving.

"Of course Dana can compete" oh right, well, we agree now - course he can, we have just wasted a load of time debating this! You said 'how can he?' at the beginning and of course I thought 'eh?' but if you look back at boxing history it doesn't take much to become a player in the game - it took Barry Hearn three years from promoting Bugner vs Bruno and he didn't have a boxing stable to taking Chris Eubank to a world title - Frank Maloney became a power broker with one signing alongside Panos Eliades when they signed Lennox Lewis - there is very little chance of Dana White slogging away for years getting nowhere when he has most of the most difficult things to acquire - phone numbers of TV execs, state commissions all over the world, a massive online presence and is already a huge success in one combat sport already.

It's hard to have a conversation who exists in an alternative reality to the one we both inhabit. So, if you make more money showing influencer football on YouTube instead of PPV then why don't they show their boxing on YouTube and not on PPV because they're losing money by doing it? Because it is not true - that is how simple it is - the reason they would make more money on YouTube than on a PPV is because no-one would buy it and the TV execs are not offering because no-one is going to pay 19.99 to watch KSI boot a ball up in the air at Stamford Bridge or wherever - boxing has a lot lower level of acceptable skill for it to be appreciated by a viewing public - all any fighter needs to do is to give it a go and go out on their shield and it has been worth watching, they don't have to know how to throw a triple left hook - football is different - people want to watch skilled practitioners and if you're going to pay 19.99-29.99 for it - it had better be more than KSI and his sidemen clodhopping around Old Trafford kicking at thin air - he isn't the greatest boxer in the world though he is a trier but I bet he looks like Muhammad Ali next to his football skills

[maverick23]

What you said is there, go back and read and anyone else can do the same, you said that boxing in the US is too 'competitive' for Dana White to compete in and that purses for top fighters have been but that's always has been the case, when has that not been the case? Once you had a champion per one of the eight weight divisions and now you have 56 or whatever - this is the easiest time in boxing history for him to be a promoter - he has the means, he doesn't have to deal with the mafia, he doesn't have to deal with newspaper editors and newspaper decisions, colour bars, male only dominance and of course we have the internet and satellite/cable TV with PPV's that reach every part of the planet, also, boxing is now more than a worldwide sport than it ever has been in anytime in history - we don't have to go back 40 years and boxers didn't come from Kazakhstan or Latvia or the Congo or that they held big fights in Poland, Saudi Arabia and China.

The top - let's be generous - the top twenty boxers earn millions whereas the rest don't - 99% of boxers don't earn megabucks which is why Mairis Bredis is shilling for a fight with Jake Paul and not Chris Billam Smith. The reason they're not earning the money they should be is because they're not fighting each other, there are too many champions, too many titles, interim, international blah blah blah - the sport is in a unholy mess and people are just switching off from it, I don't remember the last time I paid for a PPV but it was years ago - the sport isn't value for money anymore.

If influencers get PPV for solely for who are they are then they would get PPV dates for their games of football but they don't, why? Well, as we have already established, boxing and MMA are the biggest PPV draws that there is and b) to enjoy boxing - the skill level doesn't have to be as high as it would for a game of football as long as they get a good scrap - the ordinary punter is not shelling out PPV money to watch KSI clodhopper about White Hart Lane badly hoofing a ball around but they will to watch him put in a decent shift against Logan Paul - you keep saying that if they 'get the opportunity' but who is stopping them getting the 'opportunity'? A TV network has yet to 'happily' show a game as part of their schedule, I wonder why?

I ask you to quote me and one of the first things you say is..

you said that boxing in the US is too 'competitive' for Dana White to compete in

At no point did I say that!

It’s hard to have a conversation with someone when they’re reading something differently than what is written.

I said boxing is a competitive market in the Us whereby fighters are paid more than their commercial worth. Hence many networks have left the sport because they haven’t been able to generate an upside.

Of course Dana can compete. I just can’t see him/TKO wanting to at the moment given that TKo would have likely have to burn a lot of money before they make a return. When Dana got involved with the UFC, the UFC had a massive competitive advantage over the other US MMA organisations and it was well known (although not successful).

Re: a TV network not showing influencer football, it’s likely because the influencers/YouTubers are likely to get 5 or 10 times more viewers having their stuff on YouTube than a linear TV channel. Linear TV is a declining market. In the US alone, viewer numbers on linear TV were down 9% as more and more people switch to watching via digital platforms.

Sure, here you go!

" How can he though? (obviously promote successfully in the US market because this follows) Boxing promotion in the US is massively competitive for the top fighters (so the US market is massively competitive, which it is - you're right, there is more boxing in the United States than there is anywhere in the world on any given day - but let's just stick to the top fighters - how many 'top fighters' in the United States make more than his top earner of 5 million dollars a fight - it is probably about a dozen or so that pull more than 5 million a fight regularly). The UFC built a great brand which they'd struggle to take advantage of with boxing and are notorious for paying fighters less than they should."

So I haven't took your words out of context - how can he compete because the US market is 'massively' competitive for top fighters, it is exactly what you said. I don't know what his plans are for boxing if he enters and neither do you. He might underpay them but if he manages and promotes these fighters on the way up to the top and he is managing and promoting them, he'll get a bigger cut of their purses and thus make more money - if he gets a world heavyweight champion who gets a 75 million purse from the Saudis then he gets a bigger percentage from him than his 5 million dollar a fight UFC guy. Saying that, most boxers and even most world champions are not on million dollars purses as in 99% of boxers, do you think Chris Billam Smith gets five million dollar purses defending at that stadium in Bournemouth? It is a very few boxers - no more than twenty and that is a generous estimate are getting more than top UFC guy at five million a fight.

You didn't say boxing was a 'competitive market' you said it was a 'massively competitive market' and how can Dana White prosper despite it's about 20 fighters in that market making massive bucks, the rest of them simply aren't - the reason why the networks are leaving is because the product is crap, there are interim champions, super champions, champions we have never heard of, hometown verdicts and protected records - I think most of us are sick of modern boxing, are you not sick of it? We all want the same thing - for the best to be fighting the best and just the one world title but we're nowhere near it, that's why networks and fans are leaving.

"Of course Dana can compete" oh right, well, we agree now - course he can, we have just wasted a load of time debating this! You said 'how can he?' at the beginning and of course I thought 'eh?' but if you look back at boxing history it doesn't take much to become a player in the game - it took Barry Hearn three years from promoting Bugner vs Bruno and he didn't have a boxing stable to taking Chris Eubank to a world title - Frank Maloney became a power broker with one signing alongside Panos Eliades when they signed Lennox Lewis - there is very little chance of Dana White slogging away for years getting nowhere when he has most of the most difficult things to acquire - phone numbers of TV execs, state commissions all over the world, a massive online presence and is already a huge success in one combat sport already.

It's hard to have a conversation who exists in an alternative reality to the one we both inhabit. So, if you make more money showing influencer football on YouTube instead of PPV then why don't they show their boxing on YouTube and not on PPV because they're losing money by doing it? Because it is not true - that is how simple it is - the reason they would make more money on YouTube than on a PPV is because no-one would buy it and the TV execs are not offering because no-one is going to pay 19.99 to watch KSI boot a ball up in the air at Stamford Bridge or wherever - boxing has a lot lower level of acceptable skill for it to be appreciated by a viewing public - all any fighter needs to do is to give it a go and go out on their shield and it has been worth watching, they don't have to know how to throw a triple left hook - football is different - people want to watch skilled practitioners and if you're going to pay 19.99-29.99 for it - it had better be more than KSI and his sidemen clodhopping around Old Trafford kicking at thin air - he isn't the greatest boxer in the world though he is a trier but I bet he looks like Muhammad Ali next to his football skills

A few things….

My comment of ‘how can he though?’ was in response to you saying ‘Boxing needs a massive overhaul and he's the man to do it.’ That’s why I quoted you when I said it.

There’s a big difference from competing and giving the sport a massive overhaul.

I’m still not sure you’ve given an answer to how he can give boxing a massive overhaul but there you go.

You say…

‘He might underpay them but if he manages and promotes these fighters on the way up to the top and he is managing and promoting them, he'll get a bigger cut of their purses’

If he underpays them then I’m not sure why fighters would sign with him. I think it’s unlikely fighters signing with him for less money than they currently get and many are being paid more than what they bring in commercially.

Also he’s unable to manage and promote fighters. It’s banned under the Muhammed Ali act in the US

I’ve never said influencer football should be on PPV so no real point in responding there. I said TV networks would be interested in showing it. There’s a difference between linear channels perhaps wanting to show something and them wanting to whack it on PPV.

[Fray Bentos]

A few things….

Sure....

My comment of ‘how can he though?’ was in response to you saying ‘Boxing needs a massive overhaul and he's the man to do it.’ That’s why I quoted you when I said it.

There’s a big difference from competing and giving the sport a massive overhaul.

I’m still not sure you’ve given an answer to how he can give boxing a massive overhaul but there you go.

Well, you didn't - you said that boxers are overpaid and the market was 'massively competitive' for the top fighters - that is what you said - you didn't mention about the 'massive overhaul' which is more than the top one percent of boxing but I have answered it and will answer it again.

As most fighters aren't earning megabucks - including world champions - then White has the resources, ability and talent to make competitive fights and set a standard, people will pay good money to watch his product because his product is giving people what they want - which is competitive fights, what people don't want are protected records, hometown decisions and all the other crap that is today's boxing - and people are walking away from it.

He is capable of doing it, of course - he won't make an impact straight away but he is capable of being the catalyst of that 'massive overhaul' more than anyone else in boxing today.

You say…

‘He might underpay them but if he manages and promotes these fighters on the way up to the top and he is managing and promoting them, he'll get a bigger cut of their purses’

If he underpays them then I’m not sure why fighters would sign with him. I think it’s unlikely fighters signing with him for less money than they currently get and many are being paid more than what they bring in commercially.

Because there's a bigger picture at hand - which is why fighters go on TUF for next to nothing so they can have a chance to fight on the UFC (which as you admit, are notorious for not paying their fighters all that much) and as we all know, the vast majority of fighters want a UFC contract because their earning potential isn't just wrapped around a purse, there's sponsorship, there's a higher public profile that leads on to bigger things etc - at the moment, even world champions within the sport of boxing don't have high profiles even within the public of their own country. I don't want to keep picking on Chris Billiam Smith - he is a good, gusty, tough fighter but he does not have a big public profile despite being a world boxing champion - he could walk down a street in most towns outside Bournemouth and nobody would know who he was, 35 years ago, most people in the UK knew who Lloyd Honeyghan was.

Also he’s unable to manage and promote fighters. It’s banned under the Muhammed Ali act in the US

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... e-contract

You know very well there will ways around Dana White taking his cut it's America baby! the land of naked capitalism!

I’ve never said influencer football should be on PPV so no real point in responding there. I said TV networks would be interested in showing it. There’s a difference between linear channels perhaps wanting to show something and them wanting to whack it on PPV.

Because they make more money on YouTube so the TV networks are dying and Misfits make far more money on YouTube despite the fact that no-one would pay good money to watch a bunch of talentless clodhoppers chase around after a ball, never mind the TV networks showing it BUT - a question if you don't mind....

The next Misfits card in Nashville on March the 23rd is on

a) Their YouTube channel
b) DAZN

Now according to you, their next influencer boxing show should be on YouTube because if it is on the dying networks like DAZN then they're losing money so the correct answer is their next promotion is being shown on YouTube? Amirite?

https://misfitsboxing.com/

[maverick23]

A few things….

Sure....

My comment of ‘how can he though?’ was in response to you saying ‘Boxing needs a massive overhaul and he's the man to do it.’ That’s why I quoted you when I said it.

There’s a big difference from competing and giving the sport a massive overhaul.

I’m still not sure you’ve given an answer to how he can give boxing a massive overhaul but there you go.

Well, you didn't - you said that boxers are overpaid and the market was 'massively competitive' for the top fighters - that is what you said - you didn't mention about the 'massive overhaul' which is more than the top one percent of boxing but I have answered it and will answer it again.

As most fighters aren't earning megabucks - including world champions - then White has the resources, ability and talent to make competitive fights and set a standard, people will pay good money to watch his product because his product is giving people what they want - which is competitive fights, what people don't want are protected records, hometown decisions and all the other crap that is today's boxing - and people are walking away from it.

He is capable of doing it, of course - he won't make an impact straight away but he is capable of being the catalyst of that 'massive overhaul' more than anyone else in boxing today.

You say…

‘He might underpay them but if he manages and promotes these fighters on the way up to the top and he is managing and promoting them, he'll get a bigger cut of their purses’

If he underpays them then I’m not sure why fighters would sign with him. I think it’s unlikely fighters signing with him for less money than they currently get and many are being paid more than what they bring in commercially.

Because there's a bigger picture at hand - which is why fighters go on TUF for next to nothing so they can have a chance to fight on the UFC (which as you admit, are notorious for not paying their fighters all that much) and as we all know, the vast majority of fighters want a UFC contract because their earning potential isn't just wrapped around a purse, there's sponsorship, there's a higher public profile that leads on to bigger things etc - at the moment, even world champions within the sport of boxing don't have high profiles even within the public of their own country. I don't want to keep picking on Chris Billiam Smith - he is a good, gusty, tough fighter but he does not have a big public profile despite being a world boxing champion - he could walk down a street in most towns outside Bournemouth and nobody would know who he was, 35 years ago, most people in the UK knew who Lloyd Honeyghan was.

Also he’s unable to manage and promote fighters. It’s banned under the Muhammed Ali act in the US

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... e-contract

You know very well there will ways around Dana White taking his cut it's America baby! the land of naked capitalism!

I’ve never said influencer football should be on PPV so no real point in responding there. I said TV networks would be interested in showing it. There’s a difference between linear channels perhaps wanting to show something and them wanting to whack it on PPV.

Because they make more money on YouTube so the TV networks are dying and Misfits make far more money on YouTube despite the fact that no-one would pay good money to watch a bunch of talentless clodhoppers chase around after a ball, never mind the TV networks showing it BUT - a question if you don't mind....

The next Misfits card in Nashville on March the 23rd is on

a) Their YouTube channel
b) DAZN

Now according to you, their next influencer boxing show should be on YouTube because if it is on the dying networks like DAZN then they're losing money so the correct answer is their next promotion is being shown on YouTube? Amirite?

https://misfitsboxing.com/

‘Well, you didn't‘ - I quoted you. My first comment was in response you your last comment. You’re welcome to check

I also said boxers are overpaid in relation to their commercial value and that boxing in the US is massively competitive. I’ve said that from the start here and I stick by that.

Fighters joined TUF and the UFC because it’s the most recognised and watched MMA brand and it’s widely accepted that the UFC champion is the best in the world. Dana wouldn’t have that luxury given the history of the sanctioning bodies and the longevity of other boxing promotional outfits like Top Rank.

You keep mentioning CBS. We’re talking about Dana White getting involved with boxing. Not sure what CBS has to do with it

Dana is a senior member of the team of TKO being the president of the UFC and reports into the board of TKO whose market cap is $14bn. He’s also likely a decent shareholder. I doubt he’s putting that at risk by being sneaky taking a managerial cut on the sly.

Re: influencer football, you say no one would pay good money to watch them yet they sold 62,000 tickets and raised a few million for charity.

‘Now according to you, their next influencer boxing show should be on YouTube because if it is on the dying networks like DAZN then they're losing money’

When did I say that? Please show me where I’ve said DAZN is a dying network? I asked before that you actually use my quotes when you claim I say something. Instead you’ve come up with another story again.

[Fray Bentos]

‘Well, you didn't‘ - I quote you. My first comment was in response you your last comment

Now you're just straight up lying. It's OK, it's all up there for anyone to see.

I also said boxers are overpaid in relation to their commercial value and that boxing in the US is massively competitive. I’ve said that from the start here and I stick by that.

Not true - the top two dozen get paid the big bucks but most don't - 99% of boxers in the US do not get paid 'big bucks' and though boxing in the US is 'massively competitive' Dana White will still have the most resources out of anyone plying their trade today.

Fighters joined TUF and the UFC because it’s the most recognised and watched MMA brand and it’s widely accepted that the UFC champion is the best in the world. Dana wouldn’t have that luxury given the history of the sanctioning bodies and the longevity of other boxing promotional outfits like Top Rank.

Dana has money - the sanctioning bodies love money - they're not freezing Dana White or his boxing promotion out are you kidding me - these parasites are the ones that brought us 'super' and 'interim' champions because they want to make more money on sanctioning fees.

You keep mentioning CBS. We’re talking about Dana White getting involved with boxing. Not sure what CBS has to do with it

Because Chris Billam Smith is a world champion not being overpaid, not making much money in comparison to the top 1% most boxers, 99 percent of them are not making big money and they have very little in the way of a public profile.

Dana is a senior member of the team of TKO being the president of the UFC and reports into the board of TKO whose market cap is $14bn. He’s also likely a decent shareholder. I doubt he’s putting that at risk by being sneaky taking a managerial cut on the sly.

There's ways around promoters taking their cut out of a fighters pay, 'promoter options' are a thing these days, before you were born - and we're not talking that long ago - they weren't.

You say no one would pay good money to watch them yet they sold 62,000 tickets and raised a few million for charity.

Yeah, 62000 of their fans turned up to watch them kick a ball up in the air? So what? No TV channel has shown influencer sport outside of boxing and they never will and it isn't because 'they make more money on YouTube' which is more Maverick logic fails and bullshit and....

‘Now according to you, their next influencer boxing show should be on YouTube because if it is on the dying networks like DAZN then they're losing money’

When did I say that? Please show me where I’ve said DAZN is a dying network? I asked before that you actually use my quotes when you claim I say something. Instead you’ve come up with another story again.

Oh right, DAZN isn't a TV network - 'the TV networks are dying' they're your actual words - you said they make more money on YouTube than they do on the 'dying TV networks' so why is their next card not on YouTube where they will make more money than on a 'dying TV network'? (and DAZN is a TV network - is it not?*)

* The clue is in the name 'DAZN TV'

[maverick23]

Yeah, he understands the basic logic of professional fighting sports, fights are meant to be well matched and people will pay lots of money to watch it. Nobody cares about records, he has took MMA all over the globe, he has held successful promotions on every continent. Boxing badly needs him and he is a boxing fan more than anything - the fights he makes will be the fights we want to watch.

Boxing needs a massive overhaul and he's the man to do it.

How can he do it though? Boxing promotion in the US is a massively competitive market for the top fighters whilst the UFC have built a great brand which they’d struggle to take advantage of with boxing and are notorious for paying fighters less than they probably should.

What am I lying about?

[Fray Bentos]

Re: a TV network not showing influencer football, it’s likely because the influencers/YouTubers are likely to get 5 or 10 times more viewers having their stuff on YouTube than a linear TV channel. Linear TV is a declining market. In the US alone, viewer numbers on linear TV were down 9% as more and more people switch to watching via digital platforms.

DAZN TV is a linear TV channel...

Maverick23: No, no, no - I didn't mean them! I forgot to mention them blah blah blah

[Fray Bentos]

Yeah, he understands the basic logic of professional fighting sports, fights are meant to be well matched and people will pay lots of money to watch it. Nobody cares about records, he has took MMA all over the globe, he has held successful promotions on every continent. Boxing badly needs him and he is a boxing fan more than anything - the fights he makes will be the fights we want to watch.

Boxing needs a massive overhaul and he's the man to do it.

How can he do it though? Boxing promotion in the US is a massively competitive market for the top fighters whilst the UFC have built a great brand which they’d struggle to take advantage of with boxing and are notorious for paying fighters less than they probably should.

What am I lying about?

Because I am talking about the whole sport - you were talking about the top fighters - you said I didn't mention about how this 'massive overhaul' would take place and I did - more than once - it's about putting on competitive fights which people would be happy to pay to see and hopefully the rest will follow because it is a winning formula, just like in the UFC.

[maverick23]

How can he do it though? Boxing promotion in the US is a massively competitive market for the top fighters whilst the UFC have built a great brand which they’d struggle to take advantage of with boxing and are notorious for paying fighters less than they probably should.

What am I lying about?

Because I am talking about the whole sport - you were talking about the top fighters - you said I didn't mention about how this 'massive overhaul' would take place and I did - more than once - it's about putting on competitive fights which people would be happy to pay to see and hopefully the rest will follow because it is a winning formula, just like in the UFC.

What you described to me is a new promoter putting on competitive fights. Not a massive overhaul.

[maverick23]

Re: a TV network not showing influencer football, it’s likely because the influencers/YouTubers are likely to get 5 or 10 times more viewers having their stuff on YouTube than a linear TV channel. Linear TV is a declining market. In the US alone, viewer numbers on linear TV were down 9% as more and more people switch to watching via digital platforms.

DAZN TV is a linear TV channel...

Maverick23: No, no, no - I didn't mean them! I forgot to mention them blah blah blah

DAZN is an on demand digital streaming platform. It has a channel on Sky. It’s not a traditional TV network.

What’s called DAZN Tv?

[Fray Bentos]

What am I lying about?

Because I am talking about the whole sport - you were talking about the top fighters - you said I didn't mention about how this 'massive overhaul' would take place and I did - more than once - it's about putting on competitive fights which people would be happy to pay to see and hopefully the rest will follow because it is a winning formula, just like in the UFC.

What you described to me is a new promoter putting on competitive fights. Not a massive overhaul.

The 'massive overhaul' is going to take some time, not a decade but if there is a man who is capable of starting the revolution it's Dana White - putting on competitive fights is a bloody good start towards the best fighting the best.

[maverick23]

Because I am talking about the whole sport - you were talking about the top fighters - you said I didn't mention about how this 'massive overhaul' would take place and I did - more than once - it's about putting on competitive fights which people would be happy to pay to see and hopefully the rest will follow because it is a winning formula, just like in the UFC.

What you described to me is a new promoter putting on competitive fights. Not a massive overhaul.

The 'massive overhaul' is going to take some time, not a decade but if there is a man who is capable of starting the revolution it's Dana White - putting on competitive fights is a bloody good start towards the best fighting the best.

I don’t disagree. It would be a welcome change to see more competitive fights.

I just don’t think that’s a massive overhaul.

[Fray Bentos]

Re: a TV network not showing influencer football, it’s likely because the influencers/YouTubers are likely to get 5 or 10 times more viewers having their stuff on YouTube than a linear TV channel. Linear TV is a declining market. In the US alone, viewer numbers on linear TV were down 9% as more and more people switch to watching via digital platforms.

DAZN TV is a linear TV channel...

Maverick23: No, no, no - I didn't mean them! I forgot to mention them blah blah blah

DAZN is an on demand digital streaming platform. It has a channel on Sky. It’s not a traditional TV network.

What’s called DAZN Tv?

Therefore - if you can get it on sky, virgin media or whatever it is in the states - it's a linear TV channel by the very definition. you still haven't said why Misfits next boxing card is on DAZN TV rather than their YouTube channel where they would make tons more money?

[Fray Bentos]

What you described to me is a new promoter putting on competitive fights. Not a massive overhaul.

The 'massive overhaul' is going to take some time, not a decade but if there is a man who is capable of starting the revolution it's Dana White - putting on competitive fights is a bloody good start towards the best fighting the best.

I don’t disagree. It would be a welcome change to see more competitive fights.

I just don’t think that’s a massive overhaul.

No, oh well.

[maverick23]

DAZN TV is a linear TV channel...

Maverick23: No, no, no - I didn't mean them! I forgot to mention them blah blah blah

DAZN is an on demand digital streaming platform. It has a channel on Sky. It’s not a traditional TV network.

What’s called DAZN Tv?

Therefore - if you can get it on sky, virgin media or whatever it is in the states - it's a linear TV channel by the very definition. you still haven't said why Misfits next boxing card is on DAZN TV rather than their YouTube channel where they would make tons more money?

You can get YouTube as a channel on some cable packages. It doesn’t make them a TV network. They’re a digital platform.

DAZN streaming on some of the cable providers doesn’t make them a TV network. I’m pretty sure to watch you need to sign up on the DAZN digital platform.

Misfits is on DAZN because they have a contract with DAZN.

[Fray Bentos]

DAZN is an on demand digital streaming platform. It has a channel on Sky. It’s not a traditional TV network.

What’s called DAZN Tv?

Therefore - if you can get it on sky, virgin media or whatever it is in the states - it's a linear TV channel by the very definition. you still haven't said why Misfits next boxing card is on DAZN TV rather than their YouTube channel where they would make tons more money?

You can get YouTube as a channel on some cable packages. It doesn’t make them a TV network. They’re a digital platform.

DAZN streaming on some of the cable providers doesn’t make them a TV network. I’m pretty sure to watch you need to sign up on the DAZN digital platform.

Misfits is on DAZN because they have a contract with DAZN.

Yes, but when you watch DAZN you are watching linear TV, who says? - everyone who knows anything about it does.

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/daz ... ny-joshua/

So you would think, that Misfits would stop losing money showing their fights on PPV/DAZN and crappy linear TV and stick to their YouTube channel where they make far more money.

[maverick23]

Therefore - if you can get it on sky, virgin media or whatever it is in the states - it's a linear TV channel by the very definition. you still haven't said why Misfits next boxing card is on DAZN TV rather than their YouTube channel where they would make tons more money?

You can get YouTube as a channel on some cable packages. It doesn’t make them a TV network. They’re a digital platform.

DAZN streaming on some of the cable providers doesn’t make them a TV network. I’m pretty sure to watch you need to sign up on the DAZN digital platform.

Misfits is on DAZN because they have a contract with DAZN.

Yes, but when you watch DAZN you are watching linear TV, who says? - everyone who knows anything about it does.

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/daz ... ny-joshua/

So you would think, that Misfits would stop losing money showing their fights on PPV/DAZN and crappy linear TV and stick to their YouTube channel where they make far more money.

When I watch DAZN I watch through a digital app.

I have never said Misfits are losing money on DAZN.

I said the only shows that perform really well are those involving a Paul or KSI and they do so because of their popularity and they’re fighting. Not because the shows are competitive which you originally suggested.

[Fray Bentos]

You can get YouTube as a channel on some cable packages. It doesn’t make them a TV network. They’re a digital platform.

DAZN streaming on some of the cable providers doesn’t make them a TV network. I’m pretty sure to watch you need to sign up on the DAZN digital platform.

Misfits is on DAZN because they have a contract with DAZN.

Yes, but when you watch DAZN you are watching linear TV, who says? - everyone who knows anything about it does.

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/daz ... ny-joshua/

So you would think, that Misfits would stop losing money showing their fights on PPV/DAZN and crappy linear TV and stick to their YouTube channel where they make far more money.

When I watch DAZN I watch through a digital app.

I have never said Misfits are losing money on DAZN.

I said the only shows that perform really well are those involving a Paul or KSI and they do so because of their popularity and they’re fighting. Not because the shows are competitive which you originally suggested.

I said the PPVs

Yeah, I am sure you do but when I was referring to 'you' it was in the plural but no matter - I am sure most people watch DAZN on their 34 inch screen in the corner of their living room. Obviously, if Misfits are making more money on YouTube than they would on a TV channel with their football then they're losing money with their boxing because they make more money broadcasting on their YouTube channel - your words.

All the shows they put on must be doing really well because DAZN wouldn't keep showing them - they're competitive because people want to watch them - on linear TV if influencer boxing was a load of 60-54's then people would stop watching it like people are turning off professional boxing. This is why the game is in the slump it is in.

[maverick23]

Yes, but when you watch DAZN you are watching linear TV, who says? - everyone who knows anything about it does.

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/daz ... ny-joshua/

So you would think, that Misfits would stop losing money showing their fights on PPV/DAZN and crappy linear TV and stick to their YouTube channel where they make far more money.

When I watch DAZN I watch through a digital app.

I have never said Misfits are losing money on DAZN.

I said the only shows that perform really well are those involving a Paul or KSI and they do so because of their popularity and they’re fighting. Not because the shows are competitive which you originally suggested.

I said the PPVs

Yeah, I am sure you do but when I was referring to 'you' it was in the plural but no matter - I am sure most people watch DAZN on their 34 inch screen in the corner of their living room. Obviously, if Misfits are making more money on YouTube than they would on a TV channel with their football then they're losing money with their boxing because they make more money broadcasting on their YouTube channel - your words.

All the shows they put on must be doing really well because DAZN wouldn't keep showing them - they're competitive because people want to watch them - on linear TV if influencer boxing was a load of 60-54's then people would stop watching it like people are turning off professional boxing. This is why the game is in the slump it is in.

You’ve just said ‘your words’. Once again you haven’t quoted me on it because they weren’t my words!

Misfits didn’t do football. They’re a boxing promotional company. There was a charity match with influencers/YouTubers(sidemen which involves KSI) that was screened on YouTube and generated 35m viewers with a video time of over 3 1/2 hours and I’d imagine well over a billion minutes of viewing time. That’s far more exposure and ad revenue than they’d get from being on something like channel 5 where the viewers would have been a small fraction and channel 5 would have wanted to make money from it too. They controlled all the rights having it on YouTube and the main show and highlights had near 50m views combined. Not counting all the other ways they could monetise on other social platforms.

The first Misfits show had KSI in 2 big mismatches. Yet it reportedly did over 400k PPV buys. KSI fighting was the reason for the success of it.

DAZN will stick with Misfits as long as they’re able to generate big PPV returns. Once that stops, who knows.

[Fray Bentos]

When I watch DAZN I watch through a digital app.

I have never said Misfits are losing money on DAZN.

I said the only shows that perform really well are those involving a Paul or KSI and they do so because of their popularity and they’re fighting. Not because the shows are competitive which you originally suggested.

I said the PPVs

Yeah, I am sure you do but when I was referring to 'you' it was in the plural but no matter - I am sure most people watch DAZN on their 34 inch screen in the corner of their living room. Obviously, if Misfits are making more money on YouTube than they would on a TV channel with their football then they're losing money with their boxing because they make more money broadcasting on their YouTube channel - your words.

All the shows they put on must be doing really well because DAZN wouldn't keep showing them - they're competitive because people want to watch them - on linear TV if influencer boxing was a load of 60-54's then people would stop watching it like people are turning off professional boxing. This is why the game is in the slump it is in.

You’ve just said ‘your words’. Once again you haven’t quoted me on it because they weren’t my words!

Misfits didn’t do football. They’re a boxing promotional company. There was a charity match with influencers/YouTubers(sidemen which involves KSI) that was screened on YouTube and generated 35m viewers with a video time of over 3 1/2 hours and I’d imagine well over a billion minutes of viewing time. That’s far more exposure and ad revenue than they’d get from being on something like channel 5 where the viewers would have been a small fraction and channel 5 would have wanted to make money from it too. They controlled all the rights having it on YouTube and the main show and highlights had near 50m views combined. Not counting all the other ways they could monetise on other social platforms.

The first Misfits show had KSI in 2 big mismatches. Yet it reportedly did over 400k PPV buys. KSI fighting was the reason for the success of it.

DAZN will stick with Misfits as long as they’re able to generate big PPV returns. Once that stops, who knows.

Yeah, they are your words - you said linear TV is dying which is why KSI and sidemen decided to show their game of football on their YouTube channel than the tv networks and that's because they made more money, then you said DAZN wasn't a linear TV channel when they actually have a linear TV channel that shows boxing.

Oh right, they made more money on their YouTube than they would Channel 5? No shit sherlock! Who watches Channel 5?
What about S4C? Would they make more money on their YouTube channel than on S4C (complete with Welsh subtitles ).

I am sure there is the odd badly matched fight on these undercards but any 60-54 fights on there? Any where there is an experienced journeyman moving around, 'messing about', keeping out of danger etc? Nope, were most of the fights entertaining and people wanted to watch the product again? Yes - that's why it's a success and a PPV event.

I am sure DAZN will stick with Misfits and I am sure Misfits will stick with DAZN - I am sure their working partnership is mutually beneficial.

[maverick23]

Yeah, I am sure you do but when I was referring to 'you' it was in the plural but no matter - I am sure most people watch DAZN on their 34 inch screen in the corner of their living room. Obviously, if Misfits are making more money on YouTube than they would on a TV channel with their football then they're losing money with their boxing because they make more money broadcasting on their YouTube channel - your words.

All the shows they put on must be doing really well because DAZN wouldn't keep showing them - they're competitive because people want to watch them - on linear TV if influencer boxing was a load of 60-54's then people would stop watching it like people are turning off professional boxing. This is why the game is in the slump it is in.

You’ve just said ‘your words’. Once again you haven’t quoted me on it because they weren’t my words!

Misfits didn’t do football. They’re a boxing promotional company. There was a charity match with influencers/YouTubers(sidemen which involves KSI) that was screened on YouTube and generated 35m viewers with a video time of over 3 1/2 hours and I’d imagine well over a billion minutes of viewing time. That’s far more exposure and ad revenue than they’d get from being on something like channel 5 where the viewers would have been a small fraction and channel 5 would have wanted to make money from it too. They controlled all the rights having it on YouTube and the main show and highlights had near 50m views combined. Not counting all the other ways they could monetise on other social platforms.

The first Misfits show had KSI in 2 big mismatches. Yet it reportedly did over 400k PPV buys. KSI fighting was the reason for the success of it.

DAZN will stick with Misfits as long as they’re able to generate big PPV returns. Once that stops, who knows.

Yeah, they are your words - you said linear TV is dying which is why KSI and sidemen decided to show their game of football on their YouTube channel than the tv networks and that's because they made more money, then you said DAZN wasn't a linear TV channel when they actually have a linear TV channel that shows boxing.

Oh right, they made more money on their YouTube than they would Channel 5? No shit sherlock! Who watches Channel 5?
What about S4C? Would they make more money on their YouTube channel than on S4C (complete with Welsh subtitles ).

I am sure there is the odd badly matched fight on these undercards but any 60-54 fights on there? Any where there is an experienced journeyman moving around, 'messing about', keeping out of danger etc? Nope, were most of the fights entertaining and people wanted to watch the product again? Yes - that's why it's a success and a PPV event.

I am sure DAZN will stick with Misfits and I am sure Misfits will stick with DAZN - I am sure their working partnership is mutually beneficial.

This is actually quite worrying.

‘Yeah, they are your words - you said linear TV is dying’

They weren’t my words and neither did I say linear TV is dying.

You’re making things up and seemingly arguing with yourself so I’ll leave you to it.

[Fray Bentos]

You’ve just said ‘your words’. Once again you haven’t quoted me on it because they weren’t my words!

Misfits didn’t do football. They’re a boxing promotional company. There was a charity match with influencers/YouTubers(sidemen which involves KSI) that was screened on YouTube and generated 35m viewers with a video time of over 3 1/2 hours and I’d imagine well over a billion minutes of viewing time. That’s far more exposure and ad revenue than they’d get from being on something like channel 5 where the viewers would have been a small fraction and channel 5 would have wanted to make money from it too. They controlled all the rights having it on YouTube and the main show and highlights had near 50m views combined. Not counting all the other ways they could monetise on other social platforms.

The first Misfits show had KSI in 2 big mismatches. Yet it reportedly did over 400k PPV buys. KSI fighting was the reason for the success of it.

DAZN will stick with Misfits as long as they’re able to generate big PPV returns. Once that stops, who knows.

Yeah, they are your words - you said linear TV is dying which is why KSI and sidemen decided to show their game of football on their YouTube channel than the tv networks and that's because they made more money, then you said DAZN wasn't a linear TV channel when they actually have a linear TV channel that shows boxing.

Oh right, they made more money on their YouTube than they would Channel 5? No shit sherlock! Who watches Channel 5?
What about S4C? Would they make more money on their YouTube channel than on S4C (complete with Welsh subtitles ).

I am sure there is the odd badly matched fight on these undercards but any 60-54 fights on there? Any where there is an experienced journeyman moving around, 'messing about', keeping out of danger etc? Nope, were most of the fights entertaining and people wanted to watch the product again? Yes - that's why it's a success and a PPV event.

I am sure DAZN will stick with Misfits and I am sure Misfits will stick with DAZN - I am sure their working partnership is mutually beneficial.

This is actually quite worrying.

‘Yeah, they are your words - you said linear TV is dying’

They weren’t my words and neither did I say linear TV is dying.

'Re: a TV network not showing influencer football, it’s likely because the influencers/YouTubers are likely to get 5 or 10 times more viewers having their stuff on YouTube than a linear TV channel. Linear TV is a declining market. In the US alone, viewer numbers on linear TV were down 9% as more and more people switch to watching via digital platforms.'

A 'declining market' or 'dying' semantics dear boy - that's all you have but we can investigate the semantics if we want - linear TV according to you is losing influence, viewers, advertising, prestige, people are turning off even though DAZN who aren't a linear TV channel according to you has entered the linear TV market

You’re making things up and seemingly arguing with yourself so I’ll leave you to it.

OK, cheers.

[joshj909]

The rumours have been around for nearing on 10 years. He's said he's interested then denies it then says he's interested again.

Boxers will not sign with Dana if he gives them UFC style contracts, in fact, they can't because of the Ali Act. I don't think Dana has much success if he can't control and underpay his fighters like he does in the UFC.

Dana can control boxers like he does with MMA fighters. MMA fighters are allowed managers to negotiate with the UFC. They’d sign a deal and get paid the contractual amounts per fight just like with a boxing promoter. What from the Muhammed Ali act isn’t allowed in UFC deals?

His main issue is that boxing has far more competition so his UFC pay scale wouldn’t attract the best fighters. His brand wouldn’t have the pull like the UFC does either.

https://www.espn.co.uk/mma/story/_/id/3 ... ction-suit

[maverick23]

The rumours have been around for nearing on 10 years. He's said he's interested then denies it then says he's interested again.

Boxers will not sign with Dana if he gives them UFC style contracts, in fact, they can't because of the Ali Act. I don't think Dana has much success if he can't control and underpay his fighters like he does in the UFC.

Dana can control boxers like he does with MMA fighters. MMA fighters are allowed managers to negotiate with the UFC. They’d sign a deal and get paid the contractual amounts per fight just like with a boxing promoter. What from the Muhammed Ali act isn’t allowed in UFC deals?

His main issue is that boxing has far more competition so his UFC pay scale wouldn’t attract the best fighters. His brand wouldn’t have the pull like the UFC does either.

https://www.espn.co.uk/mma/story/_/id/3 ... ction-suit

Thanks. I hadn’t seen that they’d settled.