WILL THERE EVER BE ANOTHER GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION???

[silkov]

What do you think?... by this I mean a champion who will fit into the top ten all time heavyweights rankings, ....we havent seen a champion like that really since Larry Holmes imo, Tyson might have been, but was too mantally flawed to be a top 10... same with Bowe, Holifield just misses the top ten and Lewis was too erratic and weakchinned... will we ever see another all time great heavyweight?... and if so when and from where???... veiws anyone?... lets keep it clean!...

[silkov]

Personally I think the next all time great will be from Eastern Europe... he'll be about 6-to-10 now and inspired by the recent wave of Eastern Europeon 'champions'... life in Eastern Europe is very hard and these people are very hungry... often literally...

[Collins2000]

What do you think?... by this I mean a champion who will fit into the top ten all time heavyweights rankings, ....we havent seen a champion like that really since Larry Holmes imo, Tyson might have been, but was too mantally flawed to be a top 10... same with Bowe, Holifield just misses the top ten and Lewis was too erratic and weakchinned... will we ever see another all time great heavyweight?... and if so when and from where???... veiws anyone?... lets keep it clean!...

I think so. Why not? It's not like there isn't a mob of soft cocks waiting to be mowed down. As president Johnson said "I'm sorry for the language but it's what has to be said." Or something like that. And I'll have $100 on it that it will be an American who does it. Mind you, I haven't detected his presence yet. It will probably be like the moslem belief regarding the 2nd coming. We'll first have false Gods (like Vitali?) who some people follow blindly before the true redeemer arrives.

[barry]

I think there will be more greats to come along, but there does not seem to be anyone in the near future. Maybe ten years from now, but I do think that European heavyweights will have a run at the top for a long time to come.

In America, most would-be heavyweight big men are now going into the NFL, or other sports that pay much better than boxing and which do not seem as taxing physically on ones body during a long career, but in reality...football is far worse on the human body than boxing.

There will continue to be good heavyweights coming out of Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union. The countries are in the re-building phase and poverty overwhelms much of the landscape and as such boxing is a way out for many and the big strong men will enter boxing. I think the next great heavyweight will definately be a non-American fighter. Maybe someone as strong as Alexander Karelin will learn the craft!

[Collins2000]

I think there will be more greats to come along, but there does not seem to be anyone in the near future. Maybe ten years from now, but I do think that European heavyweights will have a run at the top for a long time to come.

In America, most would-be heavyweight big men are now going into the NFL, or other sports that pay much better than boxing and which do not seem as taxing physically on ones body during a long career, but in reality...football is far worse on the human body than boxing.

There will continue to be good heavyweights coming out of Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union. The countries are in the re-building phase and poverty overwhelms much of the landscape and as such boxing is a way out for many and the big strong men will enter boxing. I think the next great heavyweight will definately be a non-American fighter. Maybe someone as strong as Alexander Karelin will learn the craft!

You could be right, barry. But to me the USA just seems to own the heavyweight title. It doesn't seem so at the moment but I think this is just a temporary phase. Not many of those great heavyweight champs of yesteryear have GB or USSR (or whatever it has fragmented into) after their name. Apart from Lennox and Vitali of course.

[silkov]

I think there will be more greats to come along, but there does not seem to be anyone in the near future. Maybe ten years from now, but I do think that European heavyweights will have a run at the top for a long time to come.

In America, most would-be heavyweight big men are now going into the NFL, or other sports that pay much better than boxing and which do not seem as taxing physically on ones body during a long career, but in reality...football is far worse on the human body than boxing.

There will continue to be good heavyweights coming out of Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union. The countries are in the re-building phase and poverty overwhelms much of the landscape and as such boxing is a way out for many and the big strong men will enter boxing. I think the next great heavyweight will definately be a non-American fighter. Maybe someone as strong as Alexander Karelin will learn the craft!

You could be right, barry. But to me the USA just seems to own the heavyweight title. It doesn't seem so at the moment but I think this is just a temporary phase. Not many of those great heavyweight champs of yesteryear have GB or USSR (or whatever it has fragmented into) after their name. Apart from Lennox and Vitali of course.

Yes but what you should remember is that until very recently Eastern Europeon fighters couldnt turn pro... the few who have over the years have often been outstanding fighters... men like Kid Kaplan, Benny Bass, Newsboy Brown, many other greats like Canzoneri and Ross had Europeon ancestry (Ross had Eastern Europeon roots too) ...the Eastern Europeon fighters are still catching up with the differences between Amuter and Pro boxing but there are literally hundereds of young fighters in Russia alone and I think in the next 10 years we will see many more Eastern Europeon champions in all the weights, but especially I think at heavyweight as many Eastern Europeons tend to be big in statue... none of the current 'champs' is 'great' but I think there is probably a youngster out there being inspired by them who may well be the next outstanding heavyweight champion...
As for the GB, we're just a little country compared to America or Russia and so cant be expected to have so many top fighters... I actually think we do quite well considering the fight scene is all crapped up here...

[Collins2000]

I think there will be more greats to come along, but there does not seem to be anyone in the near future. Maybe ten years from now, but I do think that European heavyweights will have a run at the top for a long time to come.

In America, most would-be heavyweight big men are now going into the NFL, or other sports that pay much better than boxing and which do not seem as taxing physically on ones body during a long career, but in reality...football is far worse on the human body than boxing.

There will continue to be good heavyweights coming out of Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union. The countries are in the re-building phase and poverty overwhelms much of the landscape and as such boxing is a way out for many and the big strong men will enter boxing. I think the next great heavyweight will definately be a non-American fighter. Maybe someone as strong as Alexander Karelin will learn the craft!

You could be right, barry. But to me the USA just seems to own the heavyweight title. It doesn't seem so at the moment but I think this is just a temporary phase. Not many of those great heavyweight champs of yesteryear have GB or USSR (or whatever it has fragmented into) after their name. Apart from Lennox and Vitali of course.

Yes but what you should remember is that until very recently Eastern Europeon fighters couldnt turn pro... the few who have over the years have often been outstanding fighters... men like Kid Kaplan, Benny Bass, Newsboy Brown, many other greats like Canzoneri and Ross had Europeon ancestry (Ross had Eastern Europeon roots too) ...the Eastern Europeon fighters are still catching up with the differences between Amuter and Pro boxing but there are literally hundereds of young fighters in Russia alone and I think in the next 10 years we will see many more Eastern Europeon champions in all the weights, but especially I think at heavyweight as many Eastern Europeons tend to be big in statue... none of the current 'champs' is 'great' but I think there is probably a youngster out there being inspired by them who may well be the next outstanding heavyweight champion...
As for the GB, we're just a little country compared to America or Russia and so cant be expected to have so many top fighters... I actually think we do quite well considering the fight scene is all crapped up here...

Last point first. The UK may be small in size but has a population of around 60 million. My feeling is that at 60 million the UK does poorly. Plenty of bullshit WBU and WBO titles but very few WBC, WBA and IBF. You are a student of the game, my good trading buddy, compare the UK to a 'country' like Puerto Rico. 3 million people but they, for my, money produce the best per capita of all 'countries'. But ignoring PR and going back to the USA, Britain should produce something like 20% of the champs they do if we ignore everything except population size. But we don't. Nothing like it.

I agree with your last sentence 'the fight scene is all crapped up here'. UK Boxers are as much to blame as anyone else, if not more. They are happy to win and defend WBU bullshit titles that are no better in truth than Southern Area titles. Even good fighters like Hatton spend years bashing old lightweights and bouncing around when that old fag introduces them as THE Light Welterweight champion of the WORLD.

Anyway, The Bulldogs smashed The Raiders so all is peace and love in Sunnybank.

[barry]

Well I think the main thing about the issue is that the larger atheletes in the United States do not have to settle with boxing. More and more are going to college and the other sports provide more money and that I do not see changing at all. There will still be some great American heavyweights in the future, but I honestly think that the states from the former Soviet Union will be producing the most quality heavyweights.

The U.S. had a hold for what, 100 years, but the world is changing now and people are getting opportunities that they did not have before and the fact that there are more opportunities in America for people to choose rather than boxing then boxing in America will just continue to decline unless something drastic happens to change a lot of the crap in boxing...then boxing may again become a very popular sport and as a result more people, having been exposed to a surge in boxing popularity, will strive to become boxers.

In my opinion, other than the obvious stuff like eliminating alphabet titles and too many divisions, a major change needed is for boxers to again start fighting more for glory instead of just for the money. The rate and along the path that we are going now boxing is slowly dying...it's not on it's last leg yet, but there is a little "knock" in the knee's right now...boxing is in some serious trouble here in the states!

[silkov]

Boxing is in a bad way here too... when I started following it the national papaers used to cover it fully and have stories on the British champions and top domestic fights etc... now boxing coverage in the daily papers is pratically nil... said from a few stories on Hatton, Williams and Calzaghe... its a crying shame... boxing is becoming just a quick fix late night entertainment for the beer and chips brigade, somewhere for people to go and shout for their local 'champion' while not even knowing the faintest thing about boxing... the sad truth I think is that boxing as it was 30 years ago is pretty much dead already... the only thing that could save it imo is if we get an outstanding heavyweight champion, who can unify the division and bring back the respect and excitement to the heavyweight diviison... boxing as a whole has always thrived when there is an outstanding heavyweight champion and done badly when the heavyweights are struggling....

[Collins2000]

Well I think the main thing about the issue is that the larger atheletes in the United States do not have to settle with boxing. More and more are going to college and the other sports provide more money and that I do not see changing at all. There will still be some great American heavyweights in the future, but I honestly think that the states from the former Soviet Union will be producing the most quality heavyweights.

The U.S. had a hold for what, 100 years, but the world is changing now and people are getting opportunities that they did not have before and the fact that there are more opportunities in America for people to choose rather than boxing then boxing in America will just continue to decline unless something drastic happens to change a lot of the crap in boxing...then boxing may again become a very popular sport and as a result more people, having been exposed to a surge in boxing popularity, will strive to become boxers.

In my opinion, other than the obvious stuff like eliminating alphabet titles and too many divisions, a major change needed is for boxers to again start fighting more for glory instead of just for the money. The rate and along the path that we are going now boxing is slowly dying...it's not on it's last leg yet, but there is a little "knock" in the knee's right now...boxing is in some serious trouble here in the states!

Good points, Barry. But I always hark back to everything I ever heard whenever a Brit prospect ever came back from a training stint in the USA (e.g. bruno and his trainer Lawless - "There are blokes there you never heard of hanging aroung gyms who would be champs here". or THE BRITISH LIGHT MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMP being done in a round by THEN unkown Buster Brayton. "Hey, lets get him back for Kaylor the UK 160 champ." Whoops, maybe that wasn't such a good idea as he beat the crap out of the Brit 160 champ.

[barry]

>>>the only thing that could save it imo is if we get an outstanding heavyweight champion, who can unify the division and bring back the respect and excitement to the heavyweight diviison<<<

Unfortunately I don't think even a heavyweight champion like the early Tyson would do a lot to bring boxing back...I think it is going to take a couple of very major changes for there to really be some life brought back into the fight game. Tyson brought it back to some degree, but he also jumped in at the time of the great welterweight fights, which done as much, if not more so good than Tyson coming on to the scene. There are three major changes that I can think of which would almost certainly bring boxing back in a very big way.

1. Kill all of the alphabet orgs...all of them and have only one universal world heavyweight champion for each division.

2. Drop some of the weight classes and rearrange the weights to where there is only around ten to twelve total weight classes.

3. Start showing big-time boxing on a regular basis on network television.

I think boxing would vastly improve if those three things were to occur...maybe even improve boxing enough to where it could compete with the revenue brought in by the NFL, NBA and MLB...hell it could possibly even give soccer a run for it's money on the world-wide level...but the odds of that happening are probably even worse than odds of me becoming heavyweight champion!

[silkov]

One of the things going against the current crop of heavies is that theyre too big and too heavy.... I think once a fighter gets over about 6 feet 3 and about 224-230 pounds, his size starts becoming a liabilty for him... the next 'great' will be 6 feet 1 to 6 feet 3/4 and no heavier than about 230...

[silkov]

>>>the only thing that could save it imo is if we get an outstanding heavyweight champion, who can unify the division and bring back the respect and excitement to the heavyweight diviison<<<

Unfortunately I don't think even a heavyweight champion like the early Tyson would do a lot to bring boxing back...I think it is going to take a couple of very major changes for there to really be some life brought back into the fight game. Tyson brought it back to some degree, but he also jumped in at the time of the great welterweight fights, which done as much, if not more so good than Tyson coming on to the scene. There are three major changes that I can think of which would almost certainly bring boxing back in a very big way.

1. Kill all of the alphabet orgs...all of them and have only one universal world heavyweight champion for each division.

2. Drop some of the weight classes and rearrange the weights to where there is only around ten to twelve total weight classes.

3. Start showing big-time boxing on a regular basis on network television.

I think boxing would vastly improve if those three things were to occur...maybe even improve boxing enough to where it could compete with the revenue brought in by the NFL, NBA and MLB...hell it could possibly even give football a run for it's money on the world-wide level...but the odds of that happening are probably even worse than odds of me becoming heavyweight champion!

Yeah I agree with those points, the numerous titles have diluted the game to pee pee, and the top fighters have been able to avoid eachother and so have never pushed themselves to their full limits... I think some of the Junior divisions are relevant, but others are a liability... I think the supermiddleweight division is behind the death of the middleweights... I also think there should be a return to boxers weighing in on the day of the fight, so you are actually getting middleweights fighting at middleweight etc.... right now we have 140 fighters who should really be light-middles and welterweights that should be middleweights and Featherweights that should be lightweights etc....

[silkov]

There should also be one world body running boxing and recognising the champions... like there is in footie... trouble is theres more money for more people when there over a dozen 'world bodies' scattered about and there lies boxings tragedy...

[barry]

>>>trouble is theres more money for more people when there over a dozen 'world bodies' scattered about and there lies boxings tragedy...<<<

That's exactly it...that's the big problem. I noticed recently, though I don't recall the fighters, that there are two, or three more new "world title" organizations that have been started within the last few months...it's just ridiculous...one of the title bouts for one of the orgs was against two guys with records along the lines of 24-15-5 (14 KO) against 8-19-6 (8 KO)...I think the 24-15-5 (14 KO) won and he is now going around calling himself world champion.

It's fuking frustrating and it's sad to watch the sport that I eat and breath slowly die due to a few rich, selfish businessmen who think that can turn a few bucks over by adding yet another alphabet title to the mix...it's just fuking terrible...that is one of the big reasons that I am for a national commission...if a national commission would come in and clean up all the crap that is piling up due to the ABC pricks I would volunteer to work for free to do whatever I could to help better the sport.

[silkov]

Its pathetically easy to actually start up a 'world body' ...I think its even worse over here than it is in America... flash some money about, get the backing of a promoter, pay off the constantly backrupt BBBC, spend about £250 on a 'belt' and there you are. I remember actually covering a 'world title' fight in Birmingham a few years ago for a local paper, (it was a wbu or wbf Cruiserweight 'world title' fight involving a guy named Rob Norton and someone else who I've luckily forgotten) and listening to the promoters story about how he had formed his 'world body' in a caravan in his back garden. .. he was very proud of it!... :x :x :x his missus was the 'general secretary' :x ...even the two fighters fought like they didnt want to win the 'title' on offer....

[KOJOE90]

WILL THERE EVER BE ANOTHER GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION???

Yes.

But who knows how long we will have to wait.

[pound per pound]

WILL THERE EVER BE ANOTHER GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION???

A great heavyweight might come around. The real question is, and then what? Many fans will hype him, many fans will say he's over rated and modern boxing is a joke.

Its seems that boxing fans have polarized their sport as much as the coruppt rankings systems and fragmented belts have. Under such circumstances, it will be difficult to find a great heavyweight champion.

[robert.snell1]

Yes and I think the East European is where it will happen. A facinating debate throughout this thread and even worse its so correct in its decription of how the sport has become a farce with regard to titles. The point made about the move of people to the NFL was very well made and not one I think many people would really be aware of.

[Aldo Pravisani]

....That's exactly it...that's the big problem. I noticed recently, though I don't recall the fighters, that there are two, or three more new "world title" organizations that have been started within the last few months...it's just ridiculous...one of the title bouts for one of the orgs was against two guys with records along the lines of 24-15-5 (14 KO) against 8-19-6 (8 KO)...I think the 24-15-5 (14 KO) won and he is now going around calling himself world champion.

I am 63 years old. In my youth I did a little boxing, and I mean a LITTLE boxing as a lightweight.

Now I weight about 78kg.

I want to make a comeback and fight for the world title in the notquitesomuchlightmeddlkrugerplusalittlebitmore weight division of the Palmerston Street Around the Corner just up from Hight Street championship.

Why? Because in the bustling town I live in, (about 2000 people) the average age is way above mine and most challengers would come from the people living in the nearby nursing home and I would not get hurt too much.

I am looking for sponsors for the upcoming bout.

Alright, alright, I am an idiot , but that is what I think of todays paper champions and their organizations, and while the fighters themselves are serious about their sport, their titles are not.

I don't think there will ever be another boxing champion who'll ever become a household name, not in the heavyweights, not in the flyweights.

[robert.snell1]

that has to be the best reply ever made mate. walking sticks are optional and take your teeth out if appropriate before your oponent does it for you.

nice one mate

[KOJOE90]

I'm not saying he WILL be the next great thing but the most promising Heavyweight prospect I have seen for a few years in the German based Russian Denis Boytsov.

[yiddo14]

Yes and I think the East European is where it will happen. A facinating debate throughout this thread and even worse its so correct in its decription of how the sport has become a farce with regard to titles. The point made about the move of people to the NFL was very well made and not one I think many people would really be aware of.

Maybe. There are four Eastern European titlists right now, but unfortunately, none of them are very good. Wladimir Klitschko's the best of a very bad lot; he's chinny and his defense sucks, but he has a good offense. Sergei Lyakhovich was lucky to face off against an out-of-shape Lamon Brewster, who wasn't that terribly good to begin with. Valuev and Maskaev are among the worst men to ever hold a heavyweight title. I rank Valuev the absolute worst, and Maskaev is just above Bruce Seldon and Shannon Briggs.

I've followed some of the up-and-coming Eastern European heavyweights, and none of them are too impressive. Sultan Ibragimov is basically a fat Vassily Jirov (okay, I stole that line), his cousin is a little bigger and a little better, but he gave a complete non-effort in his last fight. Povetkin, Virchis, Chagaev, Bidenko and the other simply aren't a very good lot.

I can understand your frustrations,but I think you are being a little harsh on Povetkin there.

[silkov]

Yes and I think the East European is where it will happen. A facinating debate throughout this thread and even worse its so correct in its decription of how the sport has become a farce with regard to titles. The point made about the move of people to the NFL was very well made and not one I think many people would really be aware of.

Maybe. There are four Eastern European titlists right now, but unfortunately, none of them are very good. Wladimir Klitschko's the best of a very bad lot; he's chinny and his defense sucks, but he has a good offense. Sergei Lyakhovich was lucky to face off against an out-of-shape Lamon Brewster, who wasn't that terribly good to begin with. Valuev and Maskaev are among the worst men to ever hold a heavyweight title. I rank Valuev the absolute worst, and Maskaev is just above Bruce Seldon and Shannon Briggs.

I've followed some of the up-and-coming Eastern European heavyweights, and none of them are too impressive. Sultan Ibragimov is basically a fat Vassily Jirov (okay, I stole that line), his cousin is a little bigger and a little better, but he gave a complete non-effort in his last fight. Povetkin, Virchis, Chagaev, Bidenko and the other simply aren't a very good lot.

The four titlists of the moment may not be particularly outstanding, but the fact remains that they are the best out there at the moment, certainly better than any of the heavies coming out of America at the present time... the fact that Americas best heavyweight right now is a bloated exmiddleweight champion says it all sadly... I think the Nfl thing is a big problem in America...

[silkov]

Maybe. There are four Eastern European titlists right now, but unfortunately, none of them are very good. Wladimir Klitschko's the best of a very bad lot; he's chinny and his defense sucks, but he has a good offense. Sergei Lyakhovich was lucky to face off against an out-of-shape Lamon Brewster, who wasn't that terribly good to begin with. Valuev and Maskaev are among the worst men to ever hold a heavyweight title. I rank Valuev the absolute worst, and Maskaev is just above Bruce Seldon and Shannon Briggs.

I've followed some of the up-and-coming Eastern European heavyweights, and none of them are too impressive. Sultan Ibragimov is basically a fat Vassily Jirov (okay, I stole that line), his cousin is a little bigger and a little better, but he gave a complete non-effort in his last fight. Povetkin, Virchis, Chagaev, Bidenko and the other simply aren't a very good lot.

I can understand your frustrations,but I think you are being a little harsh on Povetkin there.

I'm not impressed so far.

Who are you impressed with?.... Samuel??!...