try to hit joe frazier

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Yuzo
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try to hit joe frazier

Post by Yuzo »

joe frazier had such a beautiful style when you understand how it was supposed to work. he'd slip your jab and get so small your right hand was going to sail over his back or just skim him on top of his head because he tucked his chin behind a face bar.

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when you see your jabs just being slipped or just bouncing off because he was wearing a face bar and you see your right hand just sail over his back because he gets so small, you'd think you ought to throw your uppercut.

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but he'd just catch your uppercut in his opened palm because he'd already know you want to throw it. thats not always how his style worked, but thats always how his style was supposed to work and what a beautiful machine. now, you cant throw your jab, you cant throw your right hand, and you cant throw your uppercut: so what punch do you throw? the hook?
Last edited by Yuzo on 25 Sep 2024, 04:00, edited 5 times in total.
margaret thatcher
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by margaret thatcher »

from that range, take the middle ground and throw a right hook (some call it a cross) - i think it was the very first shot foreman threw. it wont go straight over him but is still above the chin shield. keep throwing your jab, which can be effectivee even if not landing, as well as mixing in straight power punch and uppercuts - though be weary with the uppercut especially of opening yourself to his left hook. keep moving to his right as you jab and vary your offense so if he evades or blocks one, the next comes at a different angle. foreman did this well and would catch joe moving into his shots. be willing to aggressively tie him up, lean on him when he's low and in close, and smother him.

obviously, joe was so good that almost every hw would lose even they fought their best fight
Last edited by margaret thatcher on 15 Mar 2024, 19:52, edited 1 time in total.
margaret thatcher
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by margaret thatcher »

btw the general lack of body work i see vs opponents with good head movement is shocking, not saying vs frazier, but you'll see guys go headhunting vs an opponent with a slick head who is laying with the ropes, when the body is there to bang and it's less obvious when you miss
Caractacus
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by Caractacus »

That didn't really look like an uppercut the dude threw at him.
Foreman's came right up from the floor.

which other oppenets of Joe Frazier (other then George Foreman)
were able to land a really solid uppercut, that "shivered his timbers" ?
BTW Archie Moore's plan for Foreman to hit Frazier with a "Slaughter-House" punch,
which was a punch to the top of Frazier's head.
Yuzo
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by Yuzo »

margaret thatcher wrote: 15 Mar 2024, 19:37throw a right hook
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you can catch those too. when you throw that punch what you'd really need to worry about is frazier catching your punch in his palm and throwing a hook to your body in the same motion because you just picked up your right elbow and he was always poised to hook. thats something that will happen all at once. that is, you think that he's open for your right hand and now your ribs hurt. he may not have looked that way, but his style was really elegantly designed.
margaret thatcher wrote: 15 Mar 2024, 19:37btw the general lack of body work i see vs opponents with good head movement is shocking, not saying vs frazier, but you'll see guys go headhunting vs an opponent with a slick head who is laying with the ropes, when the body is there to bang and it's less obvious when you miss
thats really true and the punch that beats frazier is the hook to the body.

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thats because when he brings his right forearm across his chin his body becomes totally open. now the only thing you have to do is hook with a hooker. thats when it all hits you how that style really works. he was harder to hit with jabs, right hands, and uppercuts, but open to your hook. you never see, because its happening invisibly, that, by being harder to hit by those punches, you are always being walled off and steered into throwing the one punch he does want you to throw. and thats how he'd get you to hook with him.
Yuzo
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by Yuzo »

Caractacus wrote: 16 Mar 2024, 13:37 That didn't really look like an uppercut the dude threw at him.
Foreman's came right up from the floor.

which other oppenets of Joe Frazier (other then George Foreman)
were able to land a really solid uppercut, that "shivered his timbers" ?
BTW Archie Moore's plan for Foreman to hit Frazier with a "Slaughter-House" punch,
which was a punch to the top of Frazier's head.
he'd have to really make a mistake to get hit with the uppercut. because frazier tucked his chin into his right forearm he was always protected from the uppercut by design. and he really needed to be because he was always ducking down to get underneath your right hand.
Caractacus
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by Caractacus »

The plan was to push Frazier back on his heels to make distance ,and then throw an uppercut.
Underneath ! Underneath ! yells Archie Moore
Yuzo
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by Yuzo »

Caractacus wrote: 16 Mar 2024, 17:32 The plan was to push Frazier back on his heels to make distance ,and then throw an uppercut.
Underneath ! Underneath ! yells Archie Moore
frazier actually was pretty tough to hit with the uppercut and that does bear out when you look at all the guys he fought and not just the one guy that beat him the worst. frazier got hit but he got hit a lot less than somebody that fought that way deserved to. actually, he was harder to hit than he looked.
Caractacus
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by Caractacus »

I remember reading an interview with Eddie Futch, where he said at one point in Frazier's career,
Yank Durham asked him to come to Philadelphia and to have him help train Joe Frazier (starting with the Chuck Leslie fight)
after the fight with Bonavena, (especially the knock down) Eddie Futch suggested afterwards to Yank Durham that Frazier not stand so straight up when he came in and had him bob and weave, get lower and "get small"
He tied a rope across the ring and had Frazier, Bob and Weave underneath it.
-1966-

Caractacus
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by Caractacus »

Frazier (still in the habit of coming in ,,standing straight up)got caught with some good punches in the later rounds of his next fight (13th pro fight) in 1966 too
( after he had thought Machen was on the verge of being knocked-out)

Caractacus
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Re: try to hit joe frazier

Post by Caractacus »

Now here one can plainly see the Joe Frazier style were all familiar with !
Bob and Weave-Bob and Weave !
20th pro fight-1968

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