cfang wrote: ↑03 Mar 2024, 12:55
It’s very possible Mike’s missing prime years would have been losses when his mind wasn’t on the job dispersed with wins against scared or limited opponents. Evander was supposed to be shot pre Tyson 1. It was the Bobby c fight that convinced Tyson’s people evander would be easy. I suspect Tyson’s prime years would have included losses to evander, Bowe and look at what Lewis did to ruddock.
Finally someone who understands how the things worked about Tyson's career. It was all about marketing and handpicking the right opponents.
In 88 Foreman had more than 10 fights to shake off the ring rust and I'm pretty sure that he' was very eager to get a chance to fight Tyson.
Do I have to ask you every time to relate to the conversation and not repeat slogans? Have you already checked whether the HW leader is closer to the age of 22 or to the age of 38? did you check how old Holmes was when he beat Mercer? Will you finally answer my question: do you think Douglas should have been in power since 1986 but he didn't do it because of marketing? Will you write again that Holmes was old?
I've repeat it and I'll say it again. Lennox, Bowe. Holy and Ike resumes are better in terms of quality wins than Mike's resume. Mike was a young fighter in the 90's too, so there is no argument that he was past of his prime. The only objective arguments are that he stepped up in competition and he lost and that are facts and datas. The rumours and the gossips don't matter.
but you provide zero arguments, only that they had better victories, better victories and that's it. I present the facts - Tyson is the only one who dominates Holmes in his career and I refute the arguments regarding his age and you cannot dissuade him. He gives Tyson's record in the 1980s - and you say nothing. He writes that he outclassed the current linear champion, that he won 10 fights and the title, and you still have Buster and Buster... what was Buster doing before 1990? was he just born or what? start discussing arguments and facts, not just repeating slogans. You're out of arguments, buddy, maybe you'll come back when you learn boxing?
nahh, over the hill Holmes first got defeated by lhw Spinks before Tyson and Buster exposed Tyson in a cherrypick gone pretty fcking wrong for mr Tyson and his handlers as the betting odds were 42-1. true facts.
First off, I started my post with a question, not a definitive statement, so just relax, dude. Secondly, being treated like a king has nothing to do with top training facilities. We all know Tyson peaked early, you don't need to keep belaboring the point.
Mike had everything what he wanted in that prison. Only a subjective gullible fangirl would think otherwise. Google it.
I just did Google it; Thank You. I was essentially correct. I already knew he got into tremendous condition with pushups, weights, and running. I already knew he read a lot and viewed his years in prison as "The best time of my life." The only thing I learned was that he could choose his meals. I could be wrong on this, so I'll put it in question form, so you don't get so upset: Did Mike even have access to a heavy or speed bag? Even if so, that is NOT the same as a Freddie Roach type trainer and top sparring.
Also repeating Tyson went the distance with Green, Tillis, Smith etc is a bit silly. Levi Forte and Roberta Davila went the distance with GF. Marciano went the distance with guys you've never heard of.
son, use your brain a little bit! if Tyson had a menu, a chef cook, women and many other special treats, he could've had all the good trainers sparring guys and boxing bags from US in that prison. this was not a big problem.
I've repeat it and I'll say it again. Lennox, Bowe. Holy and Ike resumes are better in terms of quality wins than Mike's resume. Mike was a young fighter in the 90's too, so there is no argument that he was past of his prime. The only objective arguments are that he stepped up in competition and he lost and that are facts and datas. The rumours and the gossips don't matter.
but you provide zero arguments, only that they had better victories, better victories and that's it. I present the facts - Tyson is the only one who dominates Holmes in his career and I refute the arguments regarding his age and you cannot dissuade him. He gives Tyson's record in the 1980s - and you say nothing. He writes that he outclassed the current linear champion, that he won 10 fights and the title, and you still have Buster and Buster... what was Buster doing before 1990? was he just born or what? start discussing arguments and facts, not just repeating slogans. You're out of arguments, buddy, maybe you'll come back when you learn boxing?
nahh, over the hill Holmes first got defeated by lhw Spinks before Tyson and Buster exposed Tyson in a cherrypick gone pretty fcking wrong for mr Tyson and his handlers as the betting odds were 42-1. true facts.
there is nothing wrong with that :) LHW Spinks did what Holmes' 46 previous rivals had not done and interrupted his domination because he was an outstanding fighter himself, also in the heavyweight division, since he did it :) The fact that Tyson was a 42-1 favorite proves how much it was a coincidental result. One out of 42 times you can win the lottery and Douglas won. If it wasn't a lottery win, Buster should have ruled boxing since 1986, you should understand the logic :)
Mike had everything what he wanted in that prison. Only a subjective gullible fangirl would think otherwise. Google it.
I just did Google it; Thank You. I was essentially correct. I already knew he got into tremendous condition with pushups, weights, and running. I already knew he read a lot and viewed his years in prison as "The best time of my life." The only thing I learned was that he could choose his meals. I could be wrong on this, so I'll put it in question form, so you don't get so upset: Did Mike even have access to a heavy or speed bag? Even if so, that is NOT the same as a Freddie Roach type trainer and top sparring.
Also repeating Tyson went the distance with Green, Tillis, Smith etc is a bit silly. Levi Forte and Roberta Davila went the distance with GF. Marciano went the distance with guys you've never heard of.
son, use your brain a little bit! if Tyson had a menu, a chef cook, women and many other special treats, he could've had all the good trainers sparring guys and boxing bags from US in that prison. this was not a big problem.
But Gramps, you seem to have this secret source that Ali had trainers and good sparring while no one else can even come up with there being a speed bag in the prison. Please enlighten us with this source. Bringing in homemade food is a bit easier than bringing in equipment, trainers, and a training facility.
Tyson was a phenomal fighter. Yes, he was hyped well, but his hype was backed up. He is a one of the fastest and most hard-hitting heavyweights ever, who has broken to the fame the same fast. A little guy, who was destroying people so brutally got fans' attention so quickley for a reason. His era wasn't the best, but he unified without any problems.
Exactly, you can have the best marketing and hype in the world but you still have to back it up in the ring. Easy with hindsight to pick holes in fighters. Marciano fought a lot of very average fighters and then the good ones were arguably past their best or blown up LHWs. Louis had several defences against average opposition, Holmes had a few close title defences etc
DrDuke wrote: ↑12 Mar 2024, 02:28
Tyson was a phenomal fighter. Yes, he was hyped well, but his hype was backed up. He is a one of the fastest and most hard-hitting heavyweights ever, who has broken to the fame the same fast. A little guy, who was destroying people so brutally got fans' attention so quickley for a reason. His era wasn't the best, but he unified without any problems.
Why is it anyone's job to convice you otherwise? It's quite clear your operating with an extreme bias.
Why on on earth would anyone care...
I seen this movie before zero amount of words will have zero impact on someone who's mind is made up & has an extreme bias. It's a narcissism approach I'm so smart zero amount of words will convice me otherwise....not exactly what you want in analysis (its the exact opposite). Hahaha why waste any breath....explaning anything. Case closed.
If Mike was so legit and a boxing prodigy then why the heck he got stopped by a contender in Buster and then he didn't rematch him? Most probably Mike had a solid rematch clause and if he wanted to rematch Buster the next day, week, month or year, I'm pretty sure he would have done it, especially bc the money for that rematch would've been huge. Also still a young 30 y/o Mike was "trashed" by a 34 y/o Holy. This are facts.
Pretty much Buster Douglas derailed Mike's hype train and Mike's nostalgic fanboys are trying to find some puerile excuses.
apollo creed wrote: ↑22 Mar 2024, 05:19
If Mike was so legit and a boxing prodigy then why the heck he got stopped by a contender in Buster and then he didn't rematch him? Most probably Mike had a solid rematch clause and if he wanted to rematch Buster the next day, week, month or year, I'm pretty sure he would have done it, especially bc the money for that rematch would've been huge. Also still a young 30 y/o Mike was "trashed" by a 34 y/o Holy. This are facts.
Pretty much Buster Douglas derailed Mike's hype train and Mike's nostalgic fanboys are trying to find some puerile excuses.
There was no rematch clause as it was seen as being an easy fight for Tyson. Holyfield was mandatory for Douglas and Buster lost and never fought again for another 6 years. Buster is just another fighter who hit the jackpot and went off the rails as the life changing money takes all their desire and reasons to train/fight away.
King must have been so mad and salty bc Buster "cooked" his golden goose, so king didn't want to do business with Buster again and he took Tyson to other route to rebuild his broken status.
apollo creed wrote: ↑22 Mar 2024, 05:19
If Mike was so legit and a boxing prodigy then why the heck he got stopped by a contender in Buster and then he didn't rematch him? Most probably Mike had a solid rematch clause and if he wanted to rematch Buster the next day, week, month or year, I'm pretty sure he would have done it, especially bc the money for that rematch would've been huge. Also still a young 30 y/o Mike was "trashed" by a 34 y/o Holy. This are facts.
Pretty much Buster Douglas derailed Mike's hype train and Mike's nostalgic fanboys are trying to find some puerile excuses.
There was no rematch clause as it was seen as being an easy fight for Tyson. Holyfield was mandatory for Douglas and Buster lost and never fought again for another 6 years. Buster is just another fighter who hit the jackpot and went off the rails as the life changing money takes all their desire and reasons to train/fight away.
Are you sure that it wasn't a solid rematch clause in that contract? I highly doubt that such sly promoter like king would do such a big mistake.
Anyway, still I think Holy beat a pretty good and experienced version of Tyson.
apollo creed wrote: ↑22 Mar 2024, 05:19
If Mike was so legit and a boxing prodigy then why the heck he got stopped by a contender in Buster and then he didn't rematch him? Most probably Mike had a solid rematch clause and if he wanted to rematch Buster the next day, week, month or year, I'm pretty sure he would have done it, especially bc the money for that rematch would've been huge. Also still a young 30 y/o Mike was "trashed" by a 34 y/o Holy. This are facts.
Pretty much Buster Douglas derailed Mike's hype train and Mike's nostalgic fanboys are trying to find some puerile excuses.
There was no rematch clause as it was seen as being an easy fight for Tyson. Holyfield was mandatory for Douglas and Buster lost and never fought again for another 6 years. Buster is just another fighter who hit the jackpot and went off the rails as the life changing money takes all their desire and reasons to train/fight away.
Are you sure that it wasn't a solid rematch clause in that contract? I highly doubt that such sly promoter like king would do such a big mistake.
Anyway, still I think Holy beat a pretty good and experienced version of Tyson.
There was no rematch clause, it wasn’t seen as a big fight and Buster was given no chance.
apollo creed wrote: ↑22 Mar 2024, 05:44
King must have been so mad and salty bc Buster "cooked" his golden goose, so king didn't want to do business with Buster again and he took Tyson to other route to rebuild his broken status.
It really was the other around. King did everything to get an immediate rematch for Tyson, but Buster did not want to have anything to do with him. He felt King did clearly not have his best interests at heart, since King had tried hard to nullify his win.
apollo creed wrote: ↑22 Mar 2024, 05:44
King must have been so mad and salty bc Buster "cooked" his golden goose, so king didn't want to do business with Buster again and he took Tyson to other route to rebuild his broken status.
It really was the other around. King did everything to get an immediate rematch for Tyson, but Buster did not want to have anything to do with him. He felt King did clearly not have his best interests at heart, since King had tried hard to nullify his win.
Yeah, I doubt that a very self-confident Buster would've not wanted a big money rematch vs Tyson. Makes no sense. Probably Tyson was really broken and he returned to parties and womanizing just to forget about that loss.
There was no rematch clause as it was seen as being an easy fight for Tyson. Holyfield was mandatory for Douglas and Buster lost and never fought again for another 6 years. Buster is just another fighter who hit the jackpot and went off the rails as the life changing money takes all their desire and reasons to train/fight away.
Are you sure that it wasn't a solid rematch clause in that contract? I highly doubt that such sly promoter like king would do such a big mistake.
Anyway, still I think Holy beat a pretty good and experienced version of Tyson.
There was no rematch clause, it wasn’t seen as a big fight and Buster was given no chance.
yeah right. Buster took Iron Mike's 0. The rematch would've been fire-hot as foock.
Do you have any idea how it's possible that Buster, who beat Tyson, didn't achieve even a small fraction of what he did? Tyson won 12 title fights and Buster 1, Tyson won 3 fights that Buster lost to, even before their fight the odds were 42-1 for Tyson, are people blind or did Douglas only wake up for that one night?
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑11 Mar 2024, 23:20
Nobody did what he did to larry holmes and spinks, two atg fighters
He was inconsistent and yes marketing always helps but those 2 wins are incredible
Plenty of big hitting heavyweights could have kayoed Spinks but never had the chance. Spinks had very few fights at heavyweight. Certainly a Lewis, Ruddock. Tua, Wlad Klitschko, etc could have stopped him early given the opportunity.
