I don't think Azim is overrated, he's just only 22 so there is no rush.
I take the point about there being no rush, but holding titles comes with responsibilities. if the fight's been ordered by the EBU and Azim or those around him don't want the fight, then he needs to relinquish the title. I hope the fight happens, though - a loss is unlikely to hurt either of them in the long term, and Shalom saying it needs to be built into a PPV fight is frankly ridiculous. That comment from Shalom has the same lack of realism that was in play in the early 2000s re Secret Williams / Takaloo / Steve Roberts and the rest, who all should have fought each other.
And imagine the equivalent in a very similar situation in early 1973 - "No, John Conteh, I know you've got the European title already, but you're not fighting Chris Finnegan for the British, Commonwealth and European because you're not 22 until the end of May and we need to build you up." FFS.
these days guys are really babied based on their age. even fighters in their mid-late 20s talked about like theyre still kids and shouldnt have any stiff tests yet
it is striking how much quicker fighters used to be brought up. they tended to have far more fights by a young age too
aziz has been matched pretty well so far, but if he's not ready to defend vs a certain opponent then ya he should give it up
I think that's what will happen. I don't think it's bad that fighters get looked after though, I'd rather my management put me in when ready.
I also don't know much about boxing in reality so may well be talking shite. This is often the case.
I don't think Azim is overrated, he's just only 22 so there is no rush.
I take the point about there being no rush, but holding titles comes with responsibilities. if the fight's been ordered by the EBU and Azim or those around him don't want the fight, then he needs to relinquish the title. I hope the fight happens, though - a loss is unlikely to hurt either of them in the long term, and Shalom saying it needs to be built into a PPV fight is frankly ridiculous. That comment from Shalom has the same lack of realism that was in play in the early 2000s re Secret Williams / Takaloo / Steve Roberts and the rest, who all should have fought each other.
And imagine the equivalent in a very similar situation in early 1973 - "No, John Conteh, I know you've got the European title already, but you're not fighting Chris Finnegan for the British, Commonwealth and European because you're not 22 until the end of May and we need to build you up." FFS.
I wasn't saying a belt holder has a right to hog a belt citing age, I was saying he's 22 and may wish to fight a certain fight at a later date. That's just good management.
Understood - wasn't being chippy about it, and I see where you're coming from. I just feel that by passing the British and Commonwealth titles and going straight for the European, that is in itself moving quickly, so it feels a bit meh for them to say "I need more time" for a fight that is, at this point, not a world level fight but is definitely a good European level fight.
I take the point about there being no rush, but holding titles comes with responsibilities. if the fight's been ordered by the EBU and Azim or those around him don't want the fight, then he needs to relinquish the title. I hope the fight happens, though - a loss is unlikely to hurt either of them in the long term, and Shalom saying it needs to be built into a PPV fight is frankly ridiculous. That comment from Shalom has the same lack of realism that was in play in the early 2000s re Secret Williams / Takaloo / Steve Roberts and the rest, who all should have fought each other.
And imagine the equivalent in a very similar situation in early 1973 - "No, John Conteh, I know you've got the European title already, but you're not fighting Chris Finnegan for the British, Commonwealth and European because you're not 22 until the end of May and we need to build you up." FFS.
I wasn't saying a belt holder has a right to hog a belt citing age, I was saying he's 22 and may wish to fight a certain fight at a later date. That's just good management.
Understood - wasn't being chippy about it, and I see where you're coming from. I just feel that by passing the British and Commonwealth titles and going straight for the European, that is in itself moving quickly, so it feels a bit meh for them to say "I need more time" for a fight that is, at this point, not a world level fight but is definitely a good European level fight.
totally get it mate, you're right. It was me being pissy buddy.
Shalon has given an interview today on IFL saying a decision on this will be made in the next 24-48 hours. He mentioned Azim being only 21 so I suspect it is safe to say he won't be fighting Smith. Whic h ins understandable imo, just could have been better handled, like the Clarke saga last year. Azim is a brilliant talent for 21. And Smith will be a world champ I think, ill be a really good future fight.
Shalom’s saying it’s not his decision, it’s Azim’s team. I’m not sure that helps Azim. Would have been better for him to say they’re looking at a different route etc whereas now it’ll look like Azim’s ducking it himself.
I dont buy this he's only 21 years old blah blah, he was pushed to the EU title as a youngster and has to quite rightly defend it.
It's been ordered, so what's the problem. He was good enough to fight for the title but not now he's not good enough to defend it. what? because it's a decent opponent.
I listened to Shalom earlier, and it's the usual victim mentality. Ultimately though Mcguigan will decide, but no one seems to be able to find him for an interview.
Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 16:38
I dont buy this he's only 21 years old blah blah, he was pushed to the EU title as a youngster and has to quite rightly defend it.
It's been ordered, so what's the problem. He was good enough to fight for the title but not now he's not good enough to defend it. what? because it's a decent opponent.
I listened to Shalom earlier, and it's the usual victim mentality. Ultimately though Mcguigan will decide, but no one seems to be able to find him for an interview.
Yeah - the victim mentality doesn’t come across well. The interviewers need to be more specific with their questions because he was just skirting around with his answers.
Risk derailing (even ruining) a potential superstar PPV career - and for what ?
It's not even that big of a fight.
I get the purist line - "Azim is Euro Champ and should defend it" - but c'mon this is boxing.
I'd love to see it, but we'll be given the "bigger later" line and it might even be true.
Smith would be a solid favourite now and quite possibly the underdog in 2 years time.
Yeah the thing that leaves the sour taste in my mouth is if you're going to go for a British, European or World title then understand that you're mandatories may well end up being very tough challengers and possibly very tough challengers belonging to the big rival promoter.
Hearn spoke before AJ went for the IBF title and to be fair you could see the way promoters need to think as he said he was always confident AJ would splatter Charles Martin but what about the first few defences. They might be able to swindle the first voluntary but what about when the mandos start showing up. Exactly that's happened here and it's perfect ammunition as it's already happened before with the original ordering of Clarke v Wardley.
Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 16:38
I dont buy this he's only 21 years old blah blah, he was pushed to the EU title as a youngster and has to quite rightly defend it.
It's been ordered, so what's the problem. He was good enough to fight for the title but not now he's not good enough to defend it. what? because it's a decent opponent.
I listened to Shalom earlier, and it's the usual victim mentality. Ultimately though Mcguigan will decide, but no one seems to be able to find him for an interview.
Eggington was ordered to defend his British at 21 against Bradley Skeete. Barry said to him style and expereince wise this is a bad fight I think its a good idea to vacate and take a different route.
Sam just said id rather lose than do that.
He lost learnt from it went on to be a better fighter.
skanksta wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 16:54
WTF would Azim fight Smith now ?!
Risk derailing (even ruining) a potential superstar PPV career - and for what ?
It's not even that big of a fight.
I get the purist line - "Azim is Euro Champ and should defend it" - but c'mon this is boxing.
I'd love to see it, but we'll be given the "bigger later" line and it might even be true.
Smith would be a solid favourite now and quite possibly the underdog in 2 years time.
I get that this is the norm in boxing, but as fans I don’t think we should be so accepting of this bollocks.
This is sport, the idea is we’re trying to find the best at the discipline. Imagine if Arsenal could duck out of playing City because they thought their team was too young.
jonp wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 20:23
Eggington was ordered to defend his British at 21 against Bradley Skeete. Barry said to him style and expereince wise this is a bad fight I think its a good idea to vacate and take a different route.
Sam just said id rather lose than do that.
He lost learnt from it went on to be a better fighter.
Well that's the thing it's not the end of the road for the loser - I think it's fair to say Sam went on to be involved in much bigger nights than Skeete ever did.
Smith has only been a pro for 7 or so months longer than Azim too, I think some people are completely falling for the narrative coming from his team. I'd add in that Smith is decent but that scar tissue around his eyes tells a story and personally i'd give Azim a good chance if they fought now.
Smith has only been a pro for 7 or so months longer than Azim too, I think some people are completely falling for the narrative coming from his team. I'd add in that Smith is decent but that scar tissue around his eyes tells a story and personally i'd give Azim a good chance if they fought now.
Smith did have 3 years of competing in WSB bouts before turning pro at an older age than Azim is now.
maverick23 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 16:12
Won’t happen next.
Shalom’s saying it’s not his decision, it’s Azim’s team. I’m not sure that helps Azim. Would have been better for him to say they’re looking at a different route etc whereas now it’ll look like Azim’s ducking it himself.
No, not yet . I think Smith is more advanced at this stage.
Said it before Smith should fight Prograis next the. The winner of Taylor/Catterall
I would like to see him take it, it’s a near 50-50. But why. Honestly I would go to bids and see how it feels then…
Hearn is being Hearn. Talking the talk, acting like Azim dosent have the right to think about it…
Hearn likes to note how silly Frazer looked last year. And he did look silly, but look at him now, going into the same fight but with 10 rounds vs wach and 6 vs Allen banked and a bit more time as a pro. Overall seems kinda smart to me cause it’s scary going into a 12 rounder having never been past 6.
skanksta wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 16:54
WTF would Azim fight Smith now ?!
Risk derailing (even ruining) a potential superstar PPV career - and for what ?
It's not even that big of a fight.
I get the purist line - "Azim is Euro Champ and should defend it" - but c'mon this is boxing.
I'd love to see it, but we'll be given the "bigger later" line and it might even be true.
Smith would be a solid favourite now and quite possibly the underdog in 2 years time.
I get that this is the norm in boxing, but as fans I don’t think we should be so accepting of this bollocks.
This is sport, the idea is we’re trying to find the best at the discipline. Imagine if Arsenal could duck out of playing City because they thought their team was too young.
lol yes - that's the exact equivalent and it sounds so absurd.
But Boxing IS crap a lot of the time.
If the evil sportwashers want Azim in a big fight (they may well do) then it'll happen, but otherwise we all know it won't.
I don't like to use the word 'hypejob' but I hope the boxing community will learn to stop drooling over the next young fighter with a flashy KO streak and a padded record.
Azim's opponents all have a low KO ratio/have no pop and often smaller with shorter reach. Yes he's young, but he is greener than grass.
Great job on the promoters and people around him in generating the hype though.
