Carlos Monzon vs Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles: 50th Year Anniversary

[elmersalsa]

On this date February 9, 1974 in Monte Carlo, the great World Welterweight Champion, Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles of Cuba, having no real threatening challenges at his welterweight crown, challenges the great World Middleweight Champion Carlos Monzon of Argentina.

The fight proved too much for Napoles. This was another case of a great big fighter beats most of the time, a great smaller one.

Mantequilla did good in the very first rounds. But, after that, it was all King Carlos!
He dominated Mantequilla at long range with crisp jabs and right crosses. He was hitting Mantequilla at will.

Mantequilla's American trainer, Angelo Dundee, saw enough and stopped the contest after the sixth round.

It was one of Monzon's greatest wins and probably his greatest performance. He consolidated himself as a real all-time pound per pound great boxer without question.


As a middleweight great, was he better than Harry Greb? Sugar Ray Robinson? Tony Zale? Stanley Ketchel? You make the call.

[Monzon83]

For me he’s second only to Ray Robinson. He beats every other MW.

The thing with Monzon is he had no flash, nothing really stood out. He was just ruthlessly efficient.

[goose 5]

A friend of mine was ringside for this fight and told me Monzon was huge in person; looked way bigger than a middleweight.

[elmersalsa]

At the time with the fight against the great Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Carlos Monzon was 31 years old. Napoles was 33.

Mantequilla's record was 77-5.

Monzon's record was 83-3-9, with 57KOs!

As a matter of fact, Monzon was on a 74-fight unbeaten streak since 1964. Monzon was on a 24-fight winning streak and was defending the middleweight crown for the 9th time. A world record at the time for the middleweight division.

Wow! What a fighter! I don't know why he only fought in American soil once. Most of his biggest fights were in Europe or in Argentina.

[elmersalsa]

King Carlos was too big for Mantequilla.

I think that Mantequilla's mistake was to challenge the champion right away than to fight top middleweight contenders to see how he feared at the weight class.

Thirteen pounds is too much to overcome and to get used to the new class.

Did you guys think that he just went right after King Carlos because it was his biggest payday yet?

[BoxBuzz]

Monzon was the best overall MW of all time. His humanity was so compromised it's hard for me to admit it. But we all struggle with demons. The fight with his demons was perhaps the only fight that would go on his record as an L.

But for pure balance of athleticism, skill, talent, grit, and that "sixth sense" that a fighter needs in the ring, I don't think he had an equal.

[elmersalsa]

Monzon was the best overall MW of all time. His humanity was so compromised it's hard for me to admit it. But we all struggle with demons. The fight with his demons was perhaps the only fight that would go on his record as an L.

But for pure balance of athleticism, skill, talent, grit, and that "sixth sense" that a fighter needs in the ring, I don't think he had an equal.

I agree with you. I think that Carlos Monzon was the greatest middleweight boxer of all-time.

I think that he beats the greats like Sugar Ray Robinson and Marvelous Marvin Hagler. It would be great fights.

[hhaehre]

King Carlos was too big for Mantequilla.

I think that Mantequilla's mistake was to challenge the champion right away than to fight top middleweight contenders to see how he feared at the weight class.

Thirteen pounds is too much to overcome and to get used to the new class.

Did you guys think that he just went right after King Carlos because it was his biggest payday yet?

I think he thought he could beat Monzon. He did pretty good too, until he got raked by the first big flush punch from Carlos, then it was basically over although he lasted a few more rounds. The problem was that against Monzon he had no margin of error, he had to be perfect for 15 rounds.

[elmersalsa]

King Carlos was too big for Mantequilla.

I think that Mantequilla's mistake was to challenge the champion right away than to fight top middleweight contenders to see how he feared at the weight class.

Thirteen pounds is too much to overcome and to get used to the new class.

Did you guys think that he just went right after King Carlos because it was his biggest payday yet?

I think he thought he could beat Monzon. He did pretty good too, until he got raked by the first big flush punch from Carlos, then it was basically over although he lasted a few more rounds. The problem was that against Monzon he had no margin of error, he had to be perfect for 15 rounds.

Agreed. Even though Mantequilla had a great chin, his chin wasn't adept to middleweight power. Like you said, the very first big punch by King Carlos and the fight was pretty much over. Especially in the 5th and 6th rounds, Mantequilla was getting a shellacking.

Mantequilla claimed that Monzon thumbed him. But, the very truth was that Monzon was too big and too strong for him.

It was probably the great Carlos Monzon's greatest performance.

[giacomino]

King Carlos was too big for Mantequilla.

I think that Mantequilla's mistake was to challenge the champion right away than to fight top middleweight contenders to see how he feared at the weight class.

Thirteen pounds is too much to overcome and to get used to the new class.

Did you guys think that he just went right after King Carlos because it was his biggest payday yet?

I think he thought he could beat Monzon. He did pretty good too, until he got raked by the first big flush punch from Carlos, then it was basically over although he lasted a few more rounds. The problem was that against Monzon he had no margin of error, he had to be perfect for 15 rounds.

Agreed. Even though Mantequilla had a great chin, his chin wasn't adept to middleweight power. Like you said, the very first big punch by King Carlos and the fight was pretty much over. Especially in the 5th and 6th rounds, Mantequilla was getting a shellacking.

Mantequilla claimed that Monzon thumbed him. But, the very truth was that Monzon was too big and too strong for him.

It was probably the great Carlos Monzon's greatest performance.

Maybe not his greatest performance, but one of his most dominant against a top opponent, that and his three-round demolition of Benvenuti in their second fight and his one-sided whipping of a prime Bennie Briscoe. All people remember from that fight was Bennie having Monzon hurt and against he ropes briefly in the 9th, but Bennie was the most dangerous middleweight around at the time. Monzon let him lead for 10 rounds, picking him apart and cutting him, before getting more aggressive in the championship rounds. He fought a brilliant fight, albeit with the momentary glitch that everyone remembers

[BoxBuzz]

I believe it was the only time Monzon was ever truly on slippery skates. It happens even to granite.....he and Hagler are probably the only two MW's that could that lick, and still come back with a kick.

[klompton]

Comical. This fight is on par with the adulation of Ali's performance over Cleveland Williams in its wrongheadedness. Monzon was one of the biggest MW champions ever at that point. Napoles was a guy who literally moved up to 147 from 135 and 140 because he couldnt get a title shot and as great as he was he was in WAY over his head against a big 160 pounder.

[Seamus]

Napoles was past his best at Welterweight, and fighting at Middleweight for the only time in his career. Even then he was ahead thru 4 rds. Definitely not a great performance.

[BoxBuzz]

Comical. This fight is on par with the adulation of Ali's performance over Cleveland Williams in its wrongheadedness. Monzon was one of the biggest MW champions ever at that point. Napoles was a guy who literally moved up to 147 from 135 and 140 because he couldnt get a title shot and as great as he was he was in WAY over his head against a big 160 pounder.

Klompton, you are the educated writer, you know that Cleveland was not quite a compromised as you pretend he was.....though facing Ali at that time, it did alllow Ali to look quite a bit better than he would have looked against him at his prime. However to compare Williams to Napoles in this scenario is sub par assessing. Now if you want to substitute Bob Foster or a Prime Archie Moore.....who either in their prime would come up short against Ali....I could have appreciated your take.

But Williams and Napoles vs Ali and Monzon...simply serves a bias. Though it's a thoughtful bias. Wait......if a bias is thoughtfu....then it's even worse....right? lol I did like your book, not sure I mentioned that in the past. But your enthusiasm for your opinions with passion....well they are a part of what makes you you!

[klompton]

Comical. This fight is on par with the adulation of Ali's performance over Cleveland Williams in its wrongheadedness. Monzon was one of the biggest MW champions ever at that point. Napoles was a guy who literally moved up to 147 from 135 and 140 because he couldnt get a title shot and as great as he was he was in WAY over his head against a big 160 pounder.

Klompton, you are the educated writer, you know that Cleveland was not quite a compromised as you pretend he was.....though facing Ali at that time, it did alllow Ali to look quite a bit better than he would have looked against him at his prime. However to compare Williams to Napoles in this scenario is sub par assessing. Now if you want to substitute Bob Foster or a Prime Archie Moore.....who either in their prime would come up short against Ali....I could have appreciated your take.

But Williams and Napoles vs Ali and Monzon...simply serves a bias. Though it's a thoughtful bias. Wait......if a bias is thoughtfu....then it's even worse....right? lol I did like your book, not sure I mentioned that in the past. But your enthusiasm for your opinions with passion....well they are a part of what makes you you!

Taking away whether you believe the gunshot wound irrevocably altered his career trajectory and ability (I dont) Cleveland Williams was still past his prime and never that good to begin with. He was literally made to order for Ali, prime or not, and Ali's performance in that fight has historically gotten a lot of undue adulation. Likewise, Napoles was past his prime, fighting WAY above his best weight against a guy who literally had every conceivable advantage.

[klompton]

Carlos Monzon held the undisputed world middleweight championship for 7 years and successfully defended his title 14 times.

No he didnt. He was stripped by the WBC after his fight with Napoles for his continued refusal to fight his #1 Contender Rodrigo Valdez. Meaning that he only had 9 consecutive undisputed title defenses in 4 years followed by one more non-consecutive undisputed defense in the rematch against Valdez.

[pound per pound]

Carlos Monzon held the undisputed world middleweight championship for 7 years and successfully defended his title 14 times.

No he didnt. He was stripped by the WBC after his fight with Napoles for his continued refusal to fight his #1 Contender Rodrigo Valdez. Meaning that he only had 9 consecutive undisputed title defenses in 4 years followed by one more non-consecutive undisputed defense in the rematch against Valdez.

9 consecutive title defense is still a lot. I think Monzon is over rated a tad. His most famous opponents were mostly smaller men and not elite smaller men.

Now Duran and Hearns were elite smaller men ( Best known for light weight and welter weight ) and would certainly be pick em' vs. Monzon.

-P4P

[The Docker]

Carlos Monzon held the undisputed world middleweight championship for 7 years and successfully defended his title 14 times.

No he didnt. He was stripped by the WBC after his fight with Napoles for his continued refusal to fight his #1 Contender Rodrigo Valdez. Meaning that he only had 9 consecutive undisputed title defenses in 4 years followed by one more non-consecutive undisputed defense in the rematch against Valdez.

9 consecutive title defense is still a lot. I think Monzon is over rated a tad. His most famous opponents were mostly smaller men and not elite smaller men.

-P4P

This is emphatically an excellent fact.

[giacomino]

Carlos Monzon held the undisputed world middleweight championship for 7 years and successfully defended his title 14 times.

No he didnt. He was stripped by the WBC after his fight with Napoles for his continued refusal to fight his #1 Contender Rodrigo Valdez. Meaning that he only had 9 consecutive undisputed title defenses in 4 years followed by one more non-consecutive undisputed defense in the rematch against Valdez.

9 consecutive title defense is still a lot. I think Monzon is over rated a tad. His most famous opponents were mostly smaller men and not elite smaller men.

Now Duran and Hearns were elite smaller men ( Best known for light weight and welter weight ) and would certainly be pick em' vs. Monzon.

-P4P

Benvenuti, Briscoe, Valdez were middleweights, as were most of his other opponents. Besides Griffith (who was a former middleweight champion) and Nápoles, who were his smaller opponents? Can’t see Duran or Hearns beating Monzon on their best days at middleweight

[klompton]

No he didnt. He was stripped by the WBC after his fight with Napoles for his continued refusal to fight his #1 Contender Rodrigo Valdez. Meaning that he only had 9 consecutive undisputed title defenses in 4 years followed by one more non-consecutive undisputed defense in the rematch against Valdez.

9 consecutive title defense is still a lot. I think Monzon is over rated a tad. His most famous opponents were mostly smaller men and not elite smaller men.

Now Duran and Hearns were elite smaller men ( Best known for light weight and welter weight ) and would certainly be pick em' vs. Monzon.

-P4P

Benvenuti, Briscoe, Valdez were middleweights, as were most of his other opponents. Besides Griffith (who was a former middleweight champion) and Nápoles, who were his smaller opponents? Can’t see Duran or Hearns beating Monzon on their best days at middleweight

Benvenuti spent most of his career at 154. He won his MW title from Griffith who had spent most of his career at 147. By the time Monzon beat Benvenuti Nino was long in the tooth and struggling with pretty pedestrian competition. Griffith was losing almost as often as he was winning and his second fight with Monzon coukd have gone either way despite how far he had slipped. Moyer was a small middleweight who was a natural 154 pounder where he had won a title and that fight was very controversially stopped. Weve already discussed Napoles. Even Valdez had spent the majority of his career at lightweight and welterweight when he became Monzons top contender. The majority of natural middleweights Monzon defended against were european fare who were big fish in the small ponds of their home countries and very protected.

[giacomino]

9 consecutive title defense is still a lot. I think Monzon is over rated a tad. His most famous opponents were mostly smaller men and not elite smaller men.

Now Duran and Hearns were elite smaller men ( Best known for light weight and welter weight ) and would certainly be pick em' vs. Monzon.

-P4P

Benvenuti, Briscoe, Valdez were middleweights, as were most of his other opponents. Besides Griffith (who was a former middleweight champion) and Nápoles, who were his smaller opponents? Can’t see Duran or Hearns beating Monzon on their best days at middleweight

Benvenuti spent most of his career at 154. He won his MW title from Griffith who had spent most of his career at 147. By the time Monzon beat Benvenuti Nino was long in the tooth and struggling with pretty pedestrian competition. Griffith was losing almost as often as he was winning and his second fight with Monzon coukd have gone either way despite how far he had slipped. Moyer was a small middleweight who was a natural 154 pounder where he had won a title and that fight was very controversially stopped. Weve already discussed Napoles. Even Valdez had spent the majority of his career at lightweight and welterweight when he became Monzons top contender. The majority of natural middleweights Monzon defended against were european fare who were big fish in the small ponds of their home countries and very protected.

No he didn't. Of the 75 fights in which weights are available for Benvenuti fights, he fought at or below 154 a grand total of four times. He was fighing middleweights as soon as he turned pro. Griffith, Meyer and Valdez had all been fighting in the middleweight division for years, Griffith was a former MW champion. It wasn't like Napoles, who was moving up to fight Monzon. Monzon was bigger than everyone he fought, like Hearns and Canelo most of their careers.

[klompton]

Theres a big difference between fighting catchweight fights above your weight and being a natural full fledged MW. Benvenuti for most of the early part of hos career was a LMW and often even when he didnt have to make weight only weighed a pound above 154. And despite Griffith as s MW and being a former MW champion he was not a natural MW. The guy weighed in the 140s to fight Napoles years after having moved up to MW, frequently fought well below 160lbs, and in one his bouts with Benvenuti he actually lost weight between the weigh in and the fight, something Ive never seen in any other fighter. And again, when Monzon got these guys (the two best fighters on his resume) they were well past it and struggling with guys that years earlier they would have handled easily.

[elmersalsa]

Carlos Monzon held the undisputed world middleweight championship for 7 years and successfully defended his title 14 times.

No he didnt. He was stripped by the WBC after his fight with Napoles for his continued refusal to fight his #1 Contender Rodrigo Valdez. Meaning that he only had 9 consecutive undisputed title defenses in 4 years followed by one more non-consecutive undisputed defense in the rematch against Valdez.

9 consecutive title defense is still a lot. I think Monzon is over rated a tad. His most famous opponents were mostly smaller men and not elite smaller men.

Now Duran and Hearns were elite smaller men ( Best known for light weight and welter weight ) and would certainly be pick em' vs. Monzon.

-P4P

Monzon would have crushed them both altogether. He whups Duran, Leonard and Hearns. And twice on Sunday

[BoxBuzz]

Elmer, when you are right, you are right.

But there are some facts that irk the hacks.

[Seamus]

I'd give Leonard an excellent chance of beating Monzon in a 12 rounder. Quicker hands, head and feet than anyone Carlos ever faced.