Should the ref have stopped Fury in the 9th?

[Grilling Machine]

I'm questioning why he changed his mind twice. It wasn't the common case of a ref caught in the way, because he moved forward both times.

You'd have to ask Usyk if having the ref touch and then momentarily block his backhand gave him pause. If not, the ref's indecision here wasn't a factor. It's for Usyk to say in my book.

[GreenLightning]

I'm questioning why he changed his mind twice. It wasn't the common case of a ref caught in the way, because he moved forward both times.

You'd have to ask Usyk if having the ref touch and then momentarily block his backhand gave him pause. If not, the ref's indecision here wasn't a factor. It's for Usyk to say in my book.

Joshua vs Breazeale the ref jumped on to stop it but changed his mind and there was an odd moment of Breazeale staggering around and Joshua not sure what to do

[Coco]

This wasn't a case of recovering from a heavy knockdown, this Bruno like, glass eyed, hands down taking unanswered shots

[GreenLightning]

This wasn't a case of recovering from a heavy knockdown, this Bruno like, glass eyed, hands down taking unanswered shots

No I disagree again, Bonecrusher Smith it was not, Frank looked paralyzed for about twenty seconds before the final blow crushed him in that one

[GreenLightning]

In fact two of the biggest looking punches in the exchange you can see Fury rolls his chin with them, if you were in the audience of a slightly different angle of might look like the nearly took his head off, but there's especially one big one you can see air between them as Fury turns his head at the last second

[Ruthless-RKO]

Mark Nelson has been refereeing world title fights for about 30 years( more?) and he's so averse to controversy nobody ever remembers his name

I'm sure he's had his incidents but this was the guy who got accused of being on the payroll for a "hometown ref"(he's American) Joe Calzaghe stoppage over Mario Veit you know, one of those Calzaghe fights that wasn't Peter Manfredo and to say the stoppage was premature was ridiculous

That's the only Mark Nelson "controversy" I remember, (as a ref, judge I dunno)

Your think he was Joe Cortez or that rat from Texas the way people are talking

"The ref" Mark Nelsons name isn't household because he's the referee who usually goes unnoticed, he pulled on Usyks shoulder a bit??? Is that the crime ??? So he was in the pocket for Fury for the Saudis?? Mark Nelson?? I need more convincing

Some one said he ref'd the Pac-Horn bout?

[Controversial]

Mark Nelson has been refereeing world title fights for about 30 years( more?) and he's so averse to controversy nobody ever remembers his name

I'm sure he's had his incidents but this was the guy who got accused of being on the payroll for a "hometown ref"(he's American) Joe Calzaghe stoppage over Mario Veit you know, one of those Calzaghe fights that wasn't Peter Manfredo and to say the stoppage was premature was ridiculous

That's the only Mark Nelson "controversy" I remember, (as a ref, judge I dunno)

Your think he was Joe Cortez or that rat from Texas the way people are talking

"The ref" Mark Nelsons name isn't household because he's the referee who usually goes unnoticed, he pulled on Usyks shoulder a bit??? Is that the crime ??? So he was in the pocket for Fury for the Saudis?? Mark Nelson?? I need more convincing

Some one said he ref'd the Pac-Horn bout?

According to boxrec Nelson’s been a ref since 1992 (32 years) and refereed 996 fights and been a judge in 197 fights since 1988

[jamesmcdonnell]

To accuse the ref of being bent is bang out of order.

It was very difficult to call, because although Fury was on extremely unsteady legs, he was still able to pivot away from some of the shots, and was still moving, albeit he was half moving, half falling. At not point did he completely keel over, even at the very end of the sequence, so it's a very tough one for the ref, to make the call on whether or not Fury had fallen over, and been held up by the ropes.

Fury showed remarkable survival instincts, considering he was absolutely buggered.

[Controversial]

Generally speaking it’s impossible to know what goes on in any ref’s mind (or judges mind) however it’s possible for there to be some sort of bias or loyalty that affects their decision making. We don’t know what kind of conversations are had behind the scenes, the schmoozing, the dinners or gifts bought, the promises of being in the frame as the ref/judge at the next big fight etc. This kind of thing happens in all walks of life. Be nice to the boss and they look after you. But on the flip side they are only human and are making split second decisions without the benefit of multiple angles, replays or hindsight. The law of averages will mean at some point they will screw up or make decisions people don’t agree with.

[Nightmare Roy]

1000% he would be stopping it if it was Usyk on the end of that shallackin, that said Fury is a tough SOB so if the ref knows that maybe he should let it play out.

[rhino222]

im surprised how many people, and some deeply involved in boxing, didnt realise that its a count if the ropes keep a fighter up as its classed as a knockdown.

when Fury was in trouble, the ref had 2 choices.

1. stop the contest
2. let it carry on and see what unfolds

The count only came because the ropes saved Fury.
The ref was 100% correct in my opinion, but he would also have been correct to stop the contest before the rope count. The count may however have saved Fury from a complete KO.

ive had a disagreement with someone of fracebook, who wrote his CV on their..... 50 years in and around the game etc.....and he told me to bet him anything i wanted that a professional ref can give a fighter (in the middle of the ring) a count simply because he was taking a pumelling and not firing back.

i explained to the eejit that he was getting amateur rules confused with pro ones as his theory wasnt the case in pro boxing...... then came the insults to me:

you know fornicate all
fornicate off and annoy someone else
you dont know the rules

what a tosser, he has still harping on that he was right at lunchtime today.....

[si7dog7]

im surprised how many people, and some deeply involved in boxing, didnt realise that its a count if the ropes keep a fighter up as its classed as a knockdown.

when Fury was in trouble, the ref had 2 choices.

1. stop the contest
2. let it carry on and see what unfolds

The count only came because the ropes saved Fury.
The ref was 100% correct in my opinion, but he would also have been correct to stop the contest before the rope count. The count may however have saved Fury from a complete KO.

ive had a disagreement with someone of fracebook, who wrote his CV on their..... 50 years in and around the game etc.....and he told me to bet him anything i wanted that a professional ref can give a fighter (in the middle of the ring) a count simply because he was taking a pumelling and not firing back.

i explained to the eejit that he was getting amateur rules confused with pro ones as his theory wasnt the case in pro boxing...... then came the insults to me:

you know fornicate all
fornicate off and annoy someone else
you dont know the rules

what a tosser, he has still harping on that he was right at lunchtime today.....

That poster called Marquis of Queensbury is a right t00ser int he/she

Rhino. Those 50 years from your friend are mirth their weight in gold mate

[Kilburn]

Don’t take it personally if it doesn’t apply to you, but there are a ton of people who would have been super chuffed if Fury had lost by stoppage. Naturally there has been a considerable reaction to that 9th round.

We see “ropes kept him up” knockdowns scored all the time. As perilously close to defeat as Fury was, I don’t see any controversy in what happened. Fury was just bloody lucky the bell rang when it did.

[SeanBrennan]

I am glad it was not stopped, it prevents the decision being needlessly contentious. I am not as au fait with the rules as others on here but glad it went the full 12.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Generally speaking it’s impossible to know what goes on in any ref’s mind (or judges mind) however it’s possible for there to be some sort of bias or loyalty that affects their decision making. We don’t know what kind of conversations are had behind the scenes, the schmoozing, the dinners or gifts bought, the promises of being in the frame as the ref/judge at the next big fight etc. This kind of thing happens in all walks of life. Be nice to the boss and they look after you. But on the flip side they are only human and are making split second decisions without the benefit of multiple angles, replays or hindsight. The law of averages will mean at some point they will screw up or make decisions people don’t agree with.

Nails my thoughts on officiating in general.

[Noxy]

Fury finished the fight alright, so it shouldn't have been stopped (with the benefit of hindsight). He was dangerously close to it though.

[rob h]

I'm still dumbfounded that it wasn't stopped. We accept premature stoppages sometimes and label them "a good decision" / "sensible stoppage". Fury could have ended up seriously hurt. That was a serious beating and the ref has questions to answer. Chisora asked him after the fight and his wry smile told the whole story.

[margaret thatcher]

To accuse the ref of being bent is bang out of order.

It was very difficult to call, because although Fury was on extremely unsteady legs, he was still able to pivot away from some of the shots, and was still moving, albeit he was half moving, half falling. At not point did he completely keel over, even at the very end of the sequence, so it's a very tough one for the ref, to make the call on whether or not Fury had fallen over, and been held up by the ropes.

Fury showed remarkable survival instincts, considering he was absolutely buggered.

i have a hard time seeing him stay up without the ropes. these arent even the best shots to show it. at one point he slids even further down and puts both arms out to try to steady himself

giving fury a count was a perfectly legitimate call

[Finkel]

Well the above photos are clear, but I guess it depends on what we define "ropes keeping him up", because there were a couple of times before that where if the ropes weren't there he would have ended up in the audience.

Like if your eyes are rolling, and your legs aren't under you and you crash into the ropes, did they not keep you up?

Fury is a particularly tall fighter, so is he leaning back on the top rope, or is his slumped back on it? I don't think you need to be slumped on the low ropes to necessarily be kept up by them. Not for a fighter his size anyway

[Grilling Machine]

At least I've learnt something new about the rules. Like I said, I'm not a fan. I think it's too subjective.

Since Fury hadn't touched down, I felt any interruption from the ref before he did amounted to a "no position to defend himself". We've seen loads of boxers stopped on their feet in less vulnerable moments than that.

All we can do now is look for consistency in how it's applied. I agree with everyone who said Usyk would've been stopped in the same boat.

[Controversial]

Fury finished the fight alright, so it shouldn't have been stopped (with the benefit of hindsight). He was dangerously close to it though.

You could say this about a lot of fighters that are stopped on their feet or without looking in serious trouble, Groves didn’t deserve to be stopped and might have finished the fight, possibly even winning. Lots of refs would’ve waved off the fight when Fury was poleaxed by Wilder in their first fight.

[margaret thatcher]

a ref doesnt have hindsight available at the time he makes a decision, so i dont think we should use it to evaluate whether they made the right call or not (i do think he made the right call still though)

[Evander]

Seen Tszyu with a hole in his head recently and they didn't stop it.

[Kilburn]

I agree with everyone who said Usyk would've been stopped in the same boat.

Except it’s really just another popular theory that gets banded around, we have no way of actually knowing what would have happened if the boot were on the other foot.

[paultom]

I agree with everyone who said Usyk would've been stopped in the same boat.

Except it’s really just another popular theory that gets banded around, we have no way of actually knowing what would have happened if the boot were on the other foot.

It's not a secret that the Saudi money people wanted Fury v Joshua after this and were apparently willing to pay Usyk step aside if he won,so who knows what would happened if it was him on the ropes,however he has a better chin that Fury so it never happened