Usyk in the all-time Heavyweight ranking

[DrDuke]

Obviously, making the Undisputed is a historical achievement, so Usyk already belongs to a group of the legendary heaves.

Whom he surpassed? His Klit countrymen? Tyson? Lewis? Maybe higher?

Or still falls short?

[gregregegg]

Hard to say.

Inter generational top 10s or “ratings” are impossible really. Like how much credit do you give to usyks cruiserweight run, gassiev, hunter, briadis are all old school heavyweights really. There as big as mike Tyson or Evannder or Ali or Frazer or Forman or many other great heavyweights…

In terms of what he has done heavyweight. He has beaten the best two heavyweights of the last decade. And is undefeated. That alone is pretty strong.

Probably not the heavyweight depth to be considered epic, but is depth all that? Beating the best 2 is probably better than beating the next 8.

[tigermoth87]

Number 1

Athletes get better with every generation in every sport. That is a fact. It's why records are always broken--and quite considerably. And it's true in boxing as well.

Usyk is the best of all time because he would beat every other boxer before him.

[joshj909]

If he beats Fury again then the likes of Hrgovic, Parker and Kabayel before retirement then he's cleaned out the top of the division without a loss. That would put him comfortably above Klitschko in my opinion. Right now, probably top 10 in terms of achievement. In terms of skill, he's top 5.

[robbydecker]

Number 1

Athletes get better with every generation in every sport. That is a fact. It's why records are always broken--and quite considerably. And it's true in boxing as well.

Usyk is the best of all time because he would beat every other boxer before him.

-"Florence Griffin Joyner" still has the Female Sprint record in the 100 meter dash. 10.49, in 1988.
-"Nolan Ryan" has the Fastest Baseball Pitch of all time. 109 Mph, in the 1970's.
-Babe Ruth hit 550 ft Home Runs, in the 1920's.
-"Ernest Ever Swanson" rounded all the bases in 13 seconds, in 1932.
-"Rocky Marciano" punched 2,000 psi, in the 1950's. At 5'10 185 lbs.
-"Mickey Mantle" hit 550 ft Home Runs, throughout the 1950's, and also sprinted from home plate to first base in 3.00 seconds, in the early 1950's, before the chronic knee afflictions.
-A velodrome cyclist sprinted 60 miles in one hour, in the 1920's.
-"Louis Sockalexis" could throw a baseball 450 ft, in the 1890's. Also, he could run the 100 yard dash in under 10 seconds.
-"Wilt Chamberlain" is still an athlete, and from the 1960's, who had physical abilities that still surpass any team sports athlete today.
-"Bob Beamon" with that long jump in the 1968 Olympics. That record stood for Many Years, and he used crude technology foot-wear, and probably mostly ate burgers and fries, and no supplements, or p.e.d's, as most athletes were back then.
-Ali, Holmes, Louis, Lewis, Bowe, and Holyfield would beat Usyk.
-Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Norton, I'd have them 50-50 versus Usyk.

[ironbeard]

Usyk, The World’s Champion Boxer, is the best of this era. I group him with Ali, Holmes, Louis, Lewis, Marciano, and WKlit.

Usyk would compete with, and potentially defeat all of them. He is an ATG who could have been a champion in any era.

[ironbeard]

I might add, he also ruled the modern Cruiserweight division by defeating every contender in by most counts the greatest era of CWs.

ALL of those fighters would have been in the HW division historically.

Usyk, The World’s Champion Boxer, is an amazing boxer by any standard.

[DrDuke]

If he beats Fury again then the likes of Hrgovic, Parker and Kabayel before retirement then he's cleaned out the top of the division without a loss. That would put him comfortably above Klitschko in my opinion. Right now, probably top 10 in terms of achievement. In terms of skill, he's top 5.

He's already above both Klitschkos.

[Finkel]

Here are some names, how many would you rank him above?

Sam Langford, Jack Johnson, Harry Wills, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Max Schmelling, Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Wallcott, Ezzard Charles, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Sony Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Wladimir Klitschko.

I think top 15 is fair, can break into the top 10 if he sticks around.

[Finkel]

If he beats Fury again then the likes of Hrgovic, Parker and Kabayel before retirement then he's cleaned out the top of the division without a loss. That would put him comfortably above Klitschko in my opinion. Right now, probably top 10 in terms of achievement. In terms of skill, he's top 5.

He's already above both Klitschkos.

Vitali, yes.
But, Wlad had 13 wins over top 10 heavyweight opponents at the championship level.
Usyk has 3 so far.

[joshj909]

If he beats Fury again then the likes of Hrgovic, Parker and Kabayel before retirement then he's cleaned out the top of the division without a loss. That would put him comfortably above Klitschko in my opinion. Right now, probably top 10 in terms of achievement. In terms of skill, he's top 5.

He's already above both Klitschkos.

I said comfortably. Wlad reigned for a long time and comfortably beat all opposition though it would be arguable whether he beat anyone as good as Joshua or Fury (who also both beat a past it version of him). It's a purely hypothetical question so there are lots of little variables for each guy. There are currently arguments that he's above Klitschko but there are arguments that Klitschko should be above him. If he beats the guys listed then it no longer becomes arguable.

[NazNaci1]

15-20, based on ability, resume and depth of the current division.

Not saying he could not beat other past, great HW's, of course, anyone can lose but I would not fancy his chances of 'winning' against quite a few fighters already mentioned.

Walking down AJ and Fury is not quite the same as trying to do that to Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield, Ali, Frazier, Foreman etc...Naturally, he has sublime skills, Olympic Gold etc but so do the many of the past great fighters, add to that that they fought more frequently and, in my opinion, against significantly superior opposition (which is not Uysk's fault) and settings, specifically 15 rounders, at the apex.

[gilgamesh]

If he were to retire off of this win I'd have him at #6 or so. Below Ali, Louis, Holmes, Foreman and Lennox Lewis.

[gilgamesh]

Here are some names, how many would you rank him above?

Sam Langford, Jack Johnson, Harry Wills, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Max Schmelling, Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Wallcott, Ezzard Charles, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Sony Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Wladimir Klitschko.

I think top 15 is fair, can break into the top 10 if he sticks around.

I would rank him above 17 of those guys.

[DrDuke]

If he beats Fury again then the likes of Hrgovic, Parker and Kabayel before retirement then he's cleaned out the top of the division without a loss. That would put him comfortably above Klitschko in my opinion. Right now, probably top 10 in terms of achievement. In terms of skill, he's top 5.

He's already above both Klitschkos.

Vitali, yes.
But, Wlad had 13 wins over top 10 heavyweight opponents at the championship level.
Usyk has 3 so far.

Usyk beat the two, who were better than all those, whom Wlad had beaten, and beat Wlad himself.

[joshj909]

He's already above both Klitschkos.

Vitali, yes.
But, Wlad had 13 wins over top 10 heavyweight opponents at the championship level.
Usyk has 3 so far.

Usyk beat the two, who were better than all those, whom Wlad had beaten, and beat Wlad himself.

They both pose their own difficulties. Facing the two top guys means you have to be at the top of your game for two fights but don't clean out the division of other guys who could hypothetically beat you. Facing 13 guys who are just off the top means you need to be consistently at your best but maybe not quite as good as you need to be to beat the top 2. Joshua's loss to Ruiz or Lewis's losses show the difficulties of consistently defending against the near top guys who may not be the best in the division. It's not like Klitschko was facing the guys Wilder was facing.

Also, beating an old Klitchsko does not make them instantly better than him. If that's the case then Danny Williams is better than Tyson...

[Ketchel]

Number 1

Athletes get better with every generation in every sport. That is a fact. It's why records are always broken--and quite considerably. And it's true in boxing as well.

Usyk is the best of all time because he would beat every other boxer before him.

-"Florence Griffin Joyner" still has the Female Sprint record in the 100 meter dash. 10.49, in 1988.
-"Nolan Ryan" has the Fastest Baseball Pitch of all time. 109 Mph, in the 1970's.
-Babe Ruth hit 550 ft Home Runs, in the 1920's.
-"Ernest Ever Swanson" rounded all the bases in 13 seconds, in 1932.
-"Rocky Marciano" punched 2,000 psi, in the 1950's. At 5'10 185 lbs.
-"Mickey Mantle" hit 550 ft Home Runs, throughout the 1950's, and also sprinted from home plate to first base in 3.00 seconds, in the early 1950's, before the chronic knee afflictions.
-A velodrome cyclist sprinted 60 miles in one hour, in the 1920's.
-"Louis Sockalexis" could throw a baseball 450 ft, in the 1890's. Also, he could run the 100 yard dash in under 10 seconds.
-"Wilt Chamberlain" is still an athlete, and from the 1960's, who had physical abilities that still surpass any team sports athlete today.
-"Bob Beamon" with that long jump in the 1968 Olympics. That record stood for Many Years, and he used crude technology foot-wear, and probably mostly ate burgers and fries, and no supplements, or p.e.d's, as most athletes were back then.
-Ali, Holmes, Louis, Lewis, Bowe, and Holyfield would beat Usyk.
-Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Norton, I'd have them 50-50 versus Usyk.

Add to this that only two men have ran faster than Seb Coe over 800m in 42 years! Also bear in mind it was virtually a solo run where he possibly could have gone quicker.

The men’s 1500m record has stood for over 25 years and Bolts 100m record is 15 years old.

[Ketchel]

Number 1

Athletes get better with every generation in every sport. That is a fact. It's why records are always broken--and quite considerably. And it's true in boxing as well.

Usyk is the best of all time because he would beat every other boxer before him.

-"Florence Griffin Joyner" still has the Female Sprint record in the 100 meter dash. 10.49, in 1988.
-"Nolan Ryan" has the Fastest Baseball Pitch of all time. 109 Mph, in the 1970's.
-Babe Ruth hit 550 ft Home Runs, in the 1920's.
-"Ernest Ever Swanson" rounded all the bases in 13 seconds, in 1932.
-"Rocky Marciano" punched 2,000 psi, in the 1950's. At 5'10 185 lbs.
-"Mickey Mantle" hit 550 ft Home Runs, throughout the 1950's, and also sprinted from home plate to first base in 3.00 seconds, in the early 1950's, before the chronic knee afflictions.
-A velodrome cyclist sprinted 60 miles in one hour, in the 1920's.
-"Louis Sockalexis" could throw a baseball 450 ft, in the 1890's. Also, he could run the 100 yard dash in under 10 seconds.
-"Wilt Chamberlain" is still an athlete, and from the 1960's, who had physical abilities that still surpass any team sports athlete today.
-"Bob Beamon" with that long jump in the 1968 Olympics. That record stood for Many Years, and he used crude technology foot-wear, and probably mostly ate burgers and fries, and no supplements, or p.e.d's, as most athletes were back then.
-Ali, Holmes, Louis, Lewis, Bowe, and Holyfield would beat Usyk.
-Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Norton, I'd have them 50-50 versus Usyk.

Add to this that only two men have ran faster than Seb Coe over 800m in 42 years! Also bear in mind it was virtually a solo run where he possibly could have gone quicker.

The men’s 1500m record has stood for over 25 years and Bolts 100m record is 15 years old.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Boxing is one of the few sports that because of weight classes comparing eras makes sense. Rules are or less the same too (see nfl or nba where rules are now drastically in favor of offense)

Boxers of the past simply fought more. Much more. You get better at something by doing it

However, obviously fighting too much is bad for long term health.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Charles martin just held a title. Chuvalo would kick the crap out of a guy like that

[kaij]

I'd have Usyk just cracking the top 10 IF he beats Fury in the rematch. My top 10 would look like:

10. Oleksandr Usyk
9. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Larry Holmes
7. Joe Frazier
6. Evander Holyfield
5. George Foreman
4. Rocky Marciano
3. Lennox Lewis
2. Joe Louis
1. Muhammad Ali

Being 2X undisputed and beating the two best heavyweights of this era is enough for Usyk to break into the top 10 for me, but he doesn't yet have the deep resume or longevity at cruiserweight for me to rank him any higher. I think Usyk is great but for those ranking him in the top 5 already...pump the brakes just a bit here. He's only had 6 fights at heavyweight and only three title defenses so far. I know the Klitschko era is seen as a weak time for the division, but Wlad ruled for over 9 years and made a total of 22 title defenses spread over his two reigns. To me that's just too impressive to surpass by just beating AJ and Fury. If Usyk wins a rematch and makes a few title defenses over top contenders (say...Parker, Kabayel, and one more top guy) then he might manage to move up a few spots on my list.

[stpeach]

Just outside the top 15 for me. Can still rise massively if he sticks around and defends the title vs Fury in a rematch and vs top contenders like Hrgovic, Parker and Kabayel

[funso banjo baby]

Tend to need an all-time great record at heavyweight

So far he's only fought chisora, dubois, aj twice and fury

At the moment he's not even in the top half.

[Contendeh]

I have devoted too much mental energy to this over the course of a lifetime.
Too much energy to this totally unprovable and subjective mythical question.

Ali is my #1
Louis is my #2.
The Next 6 go on a slightly lower level but typically go:

#3 Johnson.
#4 Holmes
#5 Foreman.
#6 Lennox
#7 Wills
#8 Frazier
#9 Holyfield
And now…
# 10…Usyk

All due respect to the Dempsey, Rocky, Liston, Tyson and Klitschko fans. I like all those fighters too.

[Crease]

Top 15 for me. If he beats Fury again, he could be knocking on the door of the top 10.