The 10 Best Fighters of the 1960s

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)..........69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120 fights
Angel Robinson Garcia (CUB)........119 fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)..........69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120 fights
Angel Robinson Garcia (CUB).......119 fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Gaspar Ortega (MEX)........106 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)...........................69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120 fights
Angel Robinson Garcia (CUB).......119 fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Gaspar Ortega (MEX)........106 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)...........................69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Carlos "Morocho" Hernandez (CUB).......58 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120 fights
Angel Robinson Garcia (CUB).......119 fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Gaspar Ortega (MEX)........106 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)...........................69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Carlos "Morocho" Hernandez (CUB).......58 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights
Joe Brown (USA)........................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120 fights
Angel Robinson Garcia (CUB).......119 fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Gaspar Ortega (MEX)........................106 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)...........................69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Carlos "Morocho" Hernandez (CUB)58 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Maurice Cullen (ENG)............52 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights
Joe Brown (USA)........................................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120 fights
Angel Robinson Garcia (CUB).......119 fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Gaspar Ortega (MEX)........................106 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Bob Allotey (GHA)...................73 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)...........................69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Carlos "Morocho" Hernandez (CUB)58 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Maurice Cullen (ENG).............................52 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights
Joe Brown (USA)........................................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120 fights
Angel Robinson Garcia (CUB).......119 fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Gaspar Ortega (MEX)........................106 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Bob Allotey (GHA)....................................73 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)...........................69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Fred Galiana (SPA)..................60 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Carlos "Morocho" Hernandez (CUB)58 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Maurice Cullen (ENG).............................52 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights
Joe Brown (USA)........................................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Now, it's Jose Legra of Cuba/Spain as the record holder for most fights in the decade of the 1960s with 120 fights!


Most fights in the 1960s decade (minimum 50 fights)

Jose Legra (CUB/SPA).......................120 fights
Angel Robinson Garcia (CUB).......119 fights
Andres Selpa......(ARG)...…..................113 fights
Gaspar Ortega (MEX)........................106 fights
Nicolino Locche (ARG)........................101 fights
Pedro Carrasco (SPA)..................86 fights
Nino Benvenutti (ITA)….…...………..........84 fights
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (CUB)...........82 fights
Eugenio Espinoza (ECU)…....................78 fights
Carlos Monzon (ARG)….........................74 fights
Bob Allotey (GHA)....................................73 fights
Jesus Pimentel (MEX)...........................69 fights
Antonio Aguilar (ARG)..........................67 fights
Ismael Laguna (PAN).............................66 fights
Curtis Cokes (USA)..................................62 fights
Fighting Harada (JAP)...........................61 fights
Fred Galiana (SPA)..................................60 fights
Sandro Mazzinghi (ITA)..........................60 fights
Carlos "Morocho" Hernandez (CUB)58 fights
Emile Griffith (USV)..................................57 fights
Ruben Olivares (MEX).............................56 fights
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (CUB)..54 fights
Maurice Cullen (ENG).............................52 fights
Horacio Accavallo (ARG)......................51 fights
Joe Brown (USA)........................................51 fights


Is there any fighter that has more fights than the two-time WBC World Featherweight Champion, Jose Legra of Spain throughout the 60s decade?

[elmersalsa]

Most World Title Fights in the 1960s decade:
Emile Griffith (USV)............................21
Carlos Ortiz (PRI).................................17
Flash Elorde (PHI)................................14
Eder Jofre (BRA)...................................11
Muhammad Ali (USA)......................10
Dick Tiger (NIG)....................................10
Gene Fullmer (USA).............................9
Fighting Harada (JAP).......................9
Vicente Saldivar (MEX)......................8


Most World Title Wins in the 1960s decade:
Emile Griffith (USV).................................16
Carlos Ortiz (PRI)......................................13
Flash Elorde (PHI).....................................11
Muhammad Ali (USA)...........................10
Eder Jofre (BRA)...…...........….....................9
Vicente Saldivar (MEX)...........................8

[gilgamesh]

I'd say

1. Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali
2. Carlos Ortiz
3. Emile Griffith
4. Eder Jofre
5. Flash Elorde
6. Vicente Saldivar
7. Nino Benvenuti
8. Joe Frazier
9. Dick Tiger
10. Sonny Liston

We had other great fighters who were active in this decade, but would go on to their greatest triumphs in the 70's. That's true of some of the names listed here also, but they did some great work in the 60's as well.

Carlos Monzon is one that while he was an active fighter through most of this decade, he was a dominant Champion through most of the next so he'd rate very highly in that decade.

[Ambling Alp II]

And ranking the great Emile Griffith at #9 or #10 is not fair, but ridiculous.

Emile Griffith was three times the World Welterweight Champion (1961, 1962-63, 1963-66), World Jr Middleweight Champion (1962) his trainer Gil Clancy recognized it. And he was also the World Middleweight Champion (1966-67, 1967-68).

That if he had dubious decisions on his favor, it depends on who you ask. He also had some dubious losing decisions like the second Benny "Kid" Paret fight. I don't know where in my view the judges were looking at, to me, Griffith won all three encounters. He was better than Paret outright.

He fought the VERY BEST FIGHTERS of the decade. No fighter had better competition than he did through the decade. The only fighter that he missed in his weight range was the great Gene Fullmer. Why they didn't fight? I don't know. (Somebody in this forum could tell us why).

He is the only boxer in that decade to win 3 world titles in 3 different weight classes. He just didn't defend the crown. The reason? I don't know (Again, somebody in this forum could explain).

Plus, Griffith had more wins in the decade fighting rematches with 10-5-1 record. The second time around, he was better.

Only the greats Carlos Ortiz and Muhammad Ali had better records in the second time around fights. Ortiz was 9-1 and Ali was 2-0. That's it.

If someone could argue that he should be at #3. It's fine. He's top 4 at least in the decade. Not #9 or #10. That's a disrespectful for someone that gave boxing history so much and dedication to it.

The great Emile Griffith probably had more fights in the decade than any other boxer, I believe.

He was never the World Jr Middleweight Champion. you can keep saying he was, that doesn't make it so.
Saying that he had a lot of dubious decisions in his favor is not arguable. his nickname should have been "split Decision".

Obviously, a great fighter. Obviously fought great competition. Had some big wins that count in his favor. He also lost a too much and had too many close calls than any other those other guys that are considered in the Top 10.

Look at some of these losses:

Giffith lost to Benny Paret.
Got knocked out in the first round by Hurricane Carter
Lost to Manuel Gonzalez
lost to Don Fullmer
Lost to Stan Hayward

Thats a lot of losses for a great fighter against non-great fighters. More than anyone else in the Top 10.

Look at some of the close calls;
All 3 of his wins against Luis Rodriguez were close, split decisions.
Got 2 split decisions against Denny Moyer
Got Split decision over Gasper Ortega
Got Split decision over Jorge Fernandez
Got Split decision over Isaac Logart
Got Split decision over Jose Gonzalez

that almost has to be some kind of record. Certainly many more dubious wins than anyone else in the Top 10. With the exception of Rodriguez, none of these guys were great fighters.

[elmersalsa]

And ranking the great Emile Griffith at #9 or #10 is not fair, but ridiculous.

Emile Griffith was three times the World Welterweight Champion (1961, 1962-63, 1963-66), World Jr Middleweight Champion (1962) his trainer Gil Clancy recognized it. And he was also the World Middleweight Champion (1966-67, 1967-68).

That if he had dubious decisions on his favor, it depends on who you ask. He also had some dubious losing decisions like the second Benny "Kid" Paret fight. I don't know where in my view the judges were looking at, to me, Griffith won all three encounters. He was better than Paret outright.

He fought the VERY BEST FIGHTERS of the decade. No fighter had better competition than he did through the decade. The only fighter that he missed in his weight range was the great Gene Fullmer. Why they didn't fight? I don't know. (Somebody in this forum could tell us why).

He is the only boxer in that decade to win 3 world titles in 3 different weight classes. He just didn't defend the crown. The reason? I don't know (Again, somebody in this forum could explain).

Plus, Griffith had more wins in the decade fighting rematches with 10-5-1 record. The second time around, he was better.

Only the greats Carlos Ortiz and Muhammad Ali had better records in the second time around fights. Ortiz was 9-1 and Ali was 2-0. That's it.

If someone could argue that he should be at #3. It's fine. He's top 4 at least in the decade. Not #9 or #10. That's a disrespectful for someone that gave boxing history so much and dedication to it.

The great Emile Griffith probably had more fights in the decade than any other boxer, I believe.

He was never the World Jr Middleweight Champion. you can keep saying he was, that doesn't make it so.
Saying that he had a lot of dubious decisions in his favor is not arguable. his nickname should have been "split Decision".

Obviously, a great fighter. Obviously fought great competition. Had some big wins that count in his favor. He also lost a too much and had too many close calls than any other those other guys that are considered in the Top 10.

Look at some of these losses:

Giffith lost to Benny Paret.
Got knocked out in the first round by Hurricane Carter
Lost to Manuel Gonzalez
lost to Don Fullmer
Lost to Stan Hayward

Thats a lot of losses for a great fighter against non-great fighters. More than anyone else in the Top 10.

Look at some of the close calls;
All 3 of his wins against Luis Rodriguez were close, split decisions.
Got 2 split decisions against Denny Moyer
Got Split decision over Gasper Ortega
Got Split decision over Jorge Fernandez
Got Split decision over Isaac Logart
Got Split decision over Jose Gonzalez

that almost has to be some kind of record. Certainly many more dubious wins than anyone else in the Top 10. With the exception of Rodriguez, none of these guys were great fighters.

And you're missing the point again.

Tell me in the 1960s decade, besides Emile Griffith, Luis Manuel Rodriguez and Dick Tiger, who in that top 10 had better opposition?

Emile Griffith opposition in the 1960s decade was second to nobody's. He fought the cream of the crop of the welterweights and Middleweights. The ONLY GUY missing in his resume is the great Gene Fullmer. Besides that, he fought unbelievably everybody! I mean almost everybody!


He was triple crown division champion. The guy was Jr middleweight World Champion in 1962. He never defended it. That's not a crime why he didn't. And don't ask me why he didn't.

That he lost to guys that he didn't suppose to lose? So what? Griffith at his best, when it was time to rise to the occasion, he did. He fought 57 fights in the decade. And had 16 world title fights. He had to lose some fights. You can't win them all.

And those guys that you wrote above that beat him, he already beat them. So, what's the problem?

We got to take into the consideration the quality of opposition, the achievements, the victories and the meaning of the achievements. He was the first and probably the ONLY WELTERWEIGHT in history to win the Welterweight crown 3 times. All in the same decade.

And the majority of his losses (24) happened when he was already over the hill. His prime was from 1960 to probably 1968 or 69. That's a lot of years of prime. And he fought the best and beat the best.

Griffith beat Luis Manuel Rodriguez three times. Rodriguez is a bonafide top 100 all time pound per pound great and one of the greatest welterweights ever.

Griffith beat the great Dick Tiger....twice! Tiger is the greatest boxer that ever come out of the African continent. And he's also one of the greatest middleweights ever and a top 100 all time pound per pound great boxer.

Nobody else is debating his great achievements. Ask Gil Clancy if he wasn't great. Ask anyone if that era. Most will tell you that he probably was the best.

[elmersalsa]

Emile Griffith record of world title fights: 16-5. He fought 21 world title fights in the 1960s decade. More than any other boxer of that era.

[Ambling Alp II]

I am not missing that point. He fought great opposition. I have said several times in this thread that he did. That counts in his favor.
What counts against him is losses and close decisions. Especially against less than great competition. You are ignoring it because you like Griffith and only count the good stuff. Like you always do with fighters that you like.
Winning the most title fights is a plus. Losing the most is a minus.

You have to weigh the good against the not so good, and do the best not to be biased. You don't; do that. You emphasize the good of the fighters that you like and ignore the bad. that is my main points that you keep ignoring and have for many years.

Griffith was not the World Jr. Middleweight Champion in 1962. He only won a paper title that no one recognizes it but you. (If a fighter that you didn't like won that title, you would not count it.)

I looked at several sources and this is what they say:

- "Boxing An Illustrated History" by Harry Carpenter only lists Denny Moyer at the Jr Middleweight Champion in 1962. It continues on listing all the title fights long after Griffith retired. Emile Griffith is not listed as ever winning the World Jr. Middleweight title.

- "An Illustrated history of Boxing" by Nat Fleischer and Sam Andre (updated by Dan Rafael) Denny Moyer listed as the first man to win the World Jr. Middleweight Championship. He lost the title to Ralph Dupas. It continues on listing all the title changes long after Griffith retired. Again, no mention of Emile Griffith as ever winning the World Jr. Middleweight title.

-"The Encyclopedia of Boxing by Gilbert Odd. Has a section almost all of the notable fighters of all time up to when the book was written. On Emile Griffith, It mentions that he won the welterweight title and middleweight world championship. No mention of Griffith ever winning the Jr. Middleweight Championship.
In the list of World Jr Middleweight title fights of that book, Denny Moyer was listed in 1962 as champion. Yet again, no mention of Griffith ever winning the Jr. Middleweight title.

-"In this Corner" by Peter Heller. The exact dates of Griffith winning the Welterweight and Middleweight World titles are listed. No mention of Griffith winning the World Jr. Middleweight Championship.

[elmersalsa]

I am not missing that point. He fought great opposition. I have said several times in this thread that he did. That counts in his favor.
What counts against him is losses and close decisions. Especially against less than great competition. You are ignoring it because you like Griffith and only count the good stuff. Like you always do with fighters that you like.
Winning the most title fights is a plus. Losing the most is a minus.

You have to weigh the good against the not so good, and do the best not to be biased. You don't; do that. You emphasize the good of the fighters that you like and ignore the bad. that is my main points that you keep ignoring and have for many years.

Griffith was not the World Jr. Middleweight Champion in 1962. He only won a paper title that no one recognizes it but you. (If a fighter that you didn't like won that title, you would not count it.)

I looked at several sources and this is what they say:

- "Boxing An Illustrated History" by Harry Carpenter only lists Denny Moyer at the Jr Middleweight Champion in 1962. It continues on listing all the title fights long after Griffith retired. Emile Griffith is not listed as ever winning the World Jr. Middleweight title.

- "An Illustrated history of Boxing" by Nat Fleischer and Sam Andre (updated by Dan Rafael) Denny Moyer listed as the first man to win the World Jr. Middleweight Championship. He lost the title to Ralph Dupas. It continues on listing all the title changes long after Griffith retired. Again, no mention of Emile Griffith as ever winning the World Jr. Middleweight title.

-"The Encyclopedia of Boxing by Gilbert Odd. Has a section almost all of the notable fighters of all time up to when the book was written. On Emile Griffith, It mentions that he won the welterweight title and middleweight world championship. No mention of Griffith ever winning the Jr. Middleweight Championship.
In the list of World Jr Middleweight title fights of that book, Denny Moyer was listed in 1962 as champion. Yet again, no mention of Griffith ever winning the Jr. Middleweight title.

-"In this Corner" by Peter Heller. The exact dates of Griffith winning the Welterweight and Middleweight World titles are listed. No mention of Griffith winning the World Jr. Middleweight Championship.

That Emile Griffith lost to guys that weren't great is not a crime. You are making it seem that to be great, you cannot lose to anyone below average. Everybody loses, no matter what. Plenty of greats has losses against mediocre boxers. Some had losses to guys that could not carry their jock straps. But, they lost, period. That happened to everybody, including the all time pound per pound great boxers like Griffith.

It is true, like you have stated that you got to balance the wins and losses. I do that. That's why he's #2 in my list and not #9 or #10 like you want to rate him, considering that the guy did extraordinary good against the cream of the crop of boxers that were great in any era.

It's a total disrespect to put him at #9 or #10 when the guy achieved so much in his era.


Look at Harry Mullan Encyclopedia of Boxing, (1995 Edition) and Emile Griffith is listed as the first Jr Middleweight World Champion in 1962. Not Denny Moyer.

The late and great Gil Clancy, Griffith's long time trainer, recognized his fighter as triple crown division world champion. See the interview of the fight footage he did with the great Wilfred Benitez before fighting Maurice Hope for the WBC World Super Welterweight Title in 1981.

Benitez was recognized as the 6th triple crown division world champion after beating Hope by knockout after these guys did it before him: Bob Fitzsimmons, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Henry Armstrong, Emile Griffith and then Benitez.


Griffith relinquished the crown immediately after winning the fight against Teddy Wright on October 17, 1962. It wasn't recognized then by the majority of governing boxing bodies because he didn't defend the crown.

[elmersalsa]

Check it out also at Wikipedia website and search about boxing triple crown division world champions. They also recognized Emile Griffith as triple crown division world champion.

[Ambling Alp II]

You do realize that literally anyone can contribute to Wikipedia?
He was not the lineal champion. He was not the WBA champion. He was named the champion by the Austrian Boxing Board of Control. That doesn't count. Lee Savold was the champion by the British Boxing Board of Control. No one calls Lee Savold the world heavyweight champion. We could come with literally hundreds of examples like this.
The only reason that you are counting it is that you like Griffith.

Regardless, he was not the 2nd best fighter of the 1960s. You have to count the wins and losses for everyone. The great performances and the not-so-great performances. It all counts for everyone. Can't just cherry pick things to favor your guy.

[Expug]

I don’t know exactly where he ranks, but Eddie Perkins was one of the best fighters around in the sixties. I mention him because guys in the game who were around back then say that guy was a “ fighters fighter”

[elmersalsa]

I don’t know exactly where he ranks, but Eddie Perkins was one of the best fighters around in the sixties. I mention him because guys in the game who were around back then say that guy was a “ fighters fighter”

Eddie Perkins. He was very underrated.

[elmersalsa]

You do realize that literally anyone can contribute to Wikipedia?
He was not the lineal champion. He was not the WBA champion. He was named the champion by the Austrian Boxing Board of Control. That doesn't count. Lee Savold was the champion by the British Boxing Board of Control. No one calls Lee Savold the world heavyweight champion. We could come with literally hundreds of examples like this.
The only reason that you are counting it is that you like Griffith.

Regardless, he was not the 2nd best fighter of the 1960s. You have to count the wins and losses for everyone. The great performances and the not-so-great performances. It all counts for everyone. Can't just cherry pick things to favor your guy.

So, who's to believe, then? Harry Mullan recognized Emile Griffith as the first World Champion of the 154lbs.

Boxrec.com also recognized him.

Gil Clancy, Griffith's late trainer, also recognized him.

Ryan Out Loud columnist of The Ring Magazine also recognized Griffith as triple crown division world champion.


I recognized him.


Who in the whole entire world recognized Lee Savold? Nobody.

Griffith had 54 fights in the decade. He lost 10 fights. And those losses were not against bums, but superb skilled fighters:
Denny Moyer
Luis Manuel Rodriguez
Benny "Kid" Paret
Rubin "Hurricane" Carter
Nino Benvenutti (twice)
Stanley "Kitty" Hayward
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles
Manuel Gonzalez
Don Fullmer

With the exception of Mantequilla and Hurricane, Griffith beat most of them in rematches. Some of them twice. Some of them 3 times! And that's because he was always going up and down in weight. He never stayed at one weight class alone.

Griffith was also The Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year in 1964.

He fought in 21 world title fights in the decade.

Seven of his 10 losses in the 60s decade were before he turned 30.

No fighter in that top ten of the 1960s decade had better opposition than he. Not even the great Muhammad Ali. And he got to be ranked at the bottom of the pile? Please!

Emile Griffith was a bonafide great boxer. One of the best of all times. A top 25 pound per pound great boxer in my view. The guy was so great that he became great in two weight classes: welterweight and middleweight. That's an achievement of itself. What a fighter!

[yancey]

1. Bob Foster easily belongs in the '60s Top 10.

2. So does Sonny Liston, regardless of those very questionable debacles vs Ali.

3. Frazier's peak was actually the late '60s. I have always felt that he was slightly past peak in the FOTC. Still good enough to whip Ali in the most important fight of their trilogy.

[elmersalsa]

1. Bob Foster easily belongs in the '60s Top 10.

2. So does Sonny Liston, regardless of those very questionable debacles vs Ali.

3. Frazier's peak was actually the late '60s. I have always felt that he was slightly past peak in the FOTC. Still good enough to whip Ali in the most important fight of their trilogy.

Yes. Welcome back, Yancey.

The great Smokin' Joe Frazier's best achievements were in the 70s decade, but, in the 1960s decade, he was undefeated and won the NY World Heavyweight Title in 1968 stopping Buster Mathis.

In the 60s decade, he also beat George Chuvalo, Doug Jones, Oscar Bonavena (twice) and Jerry Quarry. And became The Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year in 1967.

Smokin' Joe's record in the 60s decade was 24-0, with 21 knockouts!