Brain trauma and boxing - Your thoughts?

[margaret thatcher]

hell if the brain starts shrinking at 35, why not cut them off there

no country for old men

[KiwiRider]

hell if the brain starts shrinking at 35, why not cut them off there

no country for old men

Just a margin of error.
And I should have added that it must apply to sparring as well.

[SeanBrennan]

it can never be good to get punched in the head in mid 30s onwards.

[margaret thatcher]

nor at any age, most ring deaths i see arent old guys

one of the best fights of last year, an absolute war, a 23 year old japanese kid died. people here were doing a rbr and raving about it , as it was on an inoue undercard, and dude ends up losing his life

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Kazuki_Anaguchi

max dadashev, oscar diaz, pat day, oscar diaz, benny parrott, duk koo kim.........just to name some off the top of my head, all in their 20s. mclellan was 27 when when he came here for benn.

go through this grim page: https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php?title ... w#mw-pages

mostly younger guys

[Controversial]

nor at any age, most ring deaths i see arent old guys

one of the best fights of last year, an absolute war, a 23 year old japanese kid died. people here were doing a rbr and raving about it , as it was on an inoue undercard, and dude ends up losing his life

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Kazuki_Anaguchi

max dadashev, oscar diaz, pat day, oscar diaz, benny parrott, duk koo kim.........just to name some off the top of my head, all in their 20s. mclellan was 27 when when he came here for benn.

go through this grim page: https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php?title ... w#mw-pages

mostly younger guys

And that’s not including all the fighters that have suffered serious injury or ended up suffering from dementia type symptoms at fairly young ages.

[margaret thatcher]

ya no doubt

another - the last uk ring death to my knowledge- sheriff lawal was also in his 20s.

i love boxing but it can be a nasty sport. you wonder how many cases of cte are out there that we'll never hear about becaus the fighter isnt in the spotlight any longer.

i was watching a video of donald curry from a few years ago, first time id seen him in years, and he could barely speak. and even someone who can still speak fine, and outwards seems normal, can have all sorts of memory issues, etc

[coneye]

You know this is a subject , i have given a lot of thought too , and i've got NO PRACTICAL knoledge of all this stuff , but what i do have is years of being in a gym in one form or another , Has i got older training lads i suppose you could say i got softer and started to worry about this sort of thing and absolutly changed my mind on things ,

Let me explain the best i can , did i ever worry about deaths in the ring , to be honest NO well at least no more than i worry over my kids or myself getting run over in the street , i sort of look upon it has your profesional its a worry of the job , just like steepl jacks fall or jockeys fall off there horse , not nice but it does happen .

But one thing i did start to worry about has i got older was'nt deaths , it was and still is punches affecting the boxers , now myself and probably countless others , would all think straight away PROFFESIONAL BOXING , but really over the years i became more concerned with AMETEUR boxers . especielly good ones .

The better you are the harder your sparring becomes , i watch a young fella here in Aust at the moment , he's quite good , doing well representing his country ect ect , but i've watched and spoke to this kid since he was 15 , and can't help but notice the bit of a nasal sound and a slur in his voice , i think the gym wars he has , and ESPECIELLY the ones he had at 15 or so are defo taking there toll , i'd be very concerned if he was my son , I speak to him regular and keep my mouth shut , but really i can't help but think , his dad also his trainer , is just living his life threw his son , the kid is gonna end up on the back of his heels drawing ducks on the wall while he shouts quacky quacky , if he carrys on at this rate , every fight he has is at international level very few can handle him domesticly , most spars he has are wars , and usually with bigger lads , because he's tenecious a prime candidate for brain truama

Yep the ameteurs and the good ones are the ones i would worry about , because there the ones who tend to have the real hard spars , and hard fights every time , and at the younger age of 15 or so when there starting to develop a bit of power is when the gym wars start , at least the associations are doing something i agree with , the bigger gloves and the refs jumping in early after all its only ameteur and supposed to be sport , pro's well , you want the glory and possibly the money take your chance , Ameteurs is where it can all start , especielly in the better ones ,

[Giancarlo]

As we all know, boxing is by its very nature dangerous.

No matter what 'improvements' are made it will always be dangerous.

I remember the WBC reducing their title fight distance to 12 rounds from 15 and touting it as a safety measure. It might have been a good move though some said they had already been pressured by TV companies who found 12 round main events a better fit for their scheduling in some ways. Either way, no evidence it reduced deaths or serious injuries.

Having a cut off age for boxers? That has been mooted for years but hard to deny a guy a licence if he can pass the medicals.

You don't need to be a neurologist to know getting punched solidly to the head is not good for you. Joe Joyce, with his 'style' is wracking up brain damage every time he gets in the ring. I'd like to see him retire but who am I to tell a bird not to fly.

One thing I would like to see is dumping a few of the sadists posing as referees. A bloke doesn't need to be a mangled heap on the floor for the fight to be over.

I've followed boxing since the late 70's and have always recognised all of us outside the ring are living vicariously through it. I've seen the occasional fan say enough is enough and stop following the fight game but the vast majority of us stay hooked.

Maybe I could propose Giancarlo's Boxing Safe. Two blokes get in the ring all kitted out, do a bit of flexing and then shadow box in their own half of the ring. This goes on for 12 rounds and scored on the 10 point must system. I wonder if His Excellency Shaggem Turki will be interested.

[Controversial]

You know this is a subject , i have given a lot of thought too , and i've got NO PRACTICAL knoledge of all this stuff , but what i do have is years of being in a gym in one form or another , Has i got older training lads i suppose you could say i got softer and started to worry about this sort of thing and absolutly changed my mind on things ,

Let me explain the best i can , did i ever worry about deaths in the ring , to be honest NO well at least no more than i worry over my kids or myself getting run over in the street , i sort of look upon it has your profesional its a worry of the job , just like steepl jacks fall or jockeys fall off there horse , not nice but it does happen .

But one thing i did start to worry about has i got older was'nt deaths , it was and still is punches affecting the boxers , now myself and probably countless others , would all think straight away PROFFESIONAL BOXING , but really over the years i became more concerned with AMETEUR boxers . especielly good ones .

The better you are the harder your sparring becomes , i watch a young fella here in Aust at the moment , he's quite good , doing well representing his country ect ect , but i've watched and spoke to this kid since he was 15 , and can't help but notice the bit of a nasal sound and a slur in his voice , i think the gym wars he has , and ESPECIELLY the ones he had at 15 or so are defo taking there toll , i'd be very concerned if he was my son , I speak to him regular and keep my mouth shut , but really i can't help but think , his dad also his trainer , is just living his life threw his son , the kid is gonna end up on the back of his heels drawing ducks on the wall while he shouts quacky quacky , if he carrys on at this rate , every fight he has is at international level very few can handle him domesticly , most spars he has are wars , and usually with bigger lads , because he's tenecious a prime candidate for brain truama

Yep the ameteurs and the good ones are the ones i would worry about , because there the ones who tend to have the real hard spars , and hard fights every time , and at the younger age of 15 or so when there starting to develop a bit of power is when the gym wars start , at least the associations are doing something i agree with , the bigger gloves and the refs jumping in early after all its only ameteur and supposed to be sport , pro's well , you want the glory and possibly the money take your chance , Ameteurs is where it can all start , especielly in the better ones ,

Sparring is definitely an issue, you often hear that some trainers don’t allow head sparring (or at least limit it). Other sports like football don’t allow youngsters to head the ball until they are a bit older (11 or 12 I think) and some are pushing this to be 18. My opinion of boxing has changed as I’ve got older, when you are young you think you are invincible and full of testosterone so more likely to do dangerous things and not think about the consequences. I wouldn’t want my loved ones boxing, makes me a big hypocrite as I love the sport but in reality I struggle to defend it.

[margaret thatcher]

speaking of brain trauma

i mean i love a good knockout, but damn if that doesn't make you a bit uncomfortable to see.....

[Bercli]

You know this is a subject , i have given a lot of thought too , and i've got NO PRACTICAL knoledge of all this stuff , but what i do have is years of being in a gym in one form or another , Has i got older training lads i suppose you could say i got softer and started to worry about this sort of thing and absolutly changed my mind on things ,

Let me explain the best i can , did i ever worry about deaths in the ring , to be honest NO well at least no more than i worry over my kids or myself getting run over in the street , i sort of look upon it has your profesional its a worry of the job , just like steepl jacks fall or jockeys fall off there horse , not nice but it does happen .

But one thing i did start to worry about has i got older was'nt deaths , it was and still is punches affecting the boxers , now myself and probably countless others , would all think straight away PROFFESIONAL BOXING , but really over the years i became more concerned with AMETEUR boxers . especielly good ones .

The better you are the harder your sparring becomes , i watch a young fella here in Aust at the moment , he's quite good , doing well representing his country ect ect , but i've watched and spoke to this kid since he was 15 , and can't help but notice the bit of a nasal sound and a slur in his voice , i think the gym wars he has , and ESPECIELLY the ones he had at 15 or so are defo taking there toll , i'd be very concerned if he was my son , I speak to him regular and keep my mouth shut , but really i can't help but think , his dad also his trainer , is just living his life threw his son , the kid is gonna end up on the back of his heels drawing ducks on the wall while he shouts quacky quacky , if he carrys on at this rate , every fight he has is at international level very few can handle him domesticly , most spars he has are wars , and usually with bigger lads , because he's tenecious a prime candidate for brain truama

Yep the ameteurs and the good ones are the ones i would worry about , because there the ones who tend to have the real hard spars , and hard fights every time , and at the younger age of 15 or so when there starting to develop a bit of power is when the gym wars start , at least the associations are doing something i agree with , the bigger gloves and the refs jumping in early after all its only ameteur and supposed to be sport , pro's well , you want the glory and possibly the money take your chance , Ameteurs is where it can all start , especielly in the better ones ,

Agree. I get where you are coming from completely. I was involved in boxing at the highest level in various capacities for many years and as time went by I got to know many great fighters. I too saw how some became effected over time. I really love the sport but at the same time feel guilty that I do, knowing that boxers risk their health for our entertainment,also.

[Controversial]

I just saw a post about former pro Steve Sims who was suffering with memory loss from the age of 32 but only diagnosed with dementia later in life.

[margaret thatcher]

and think of all the times they get hit in sparring that we dont see........they take way beyond what humans are supposed to. to be honest it's more amazing when guys dont have any long term effects after boxing am/pro for years

even in the ams. damar thomas team gb shw won the big strandja tourny in bulgaria the other day, but he was seriously hurt and all over the place in the semis vs a hard hitting german. somehow big damar survived and got a questionable decision. then like a day or two later hes back in the ring getting hit by a burly uzbek, although fair play damar won this one for sure

but jeez that cant be good for the brain, and thats just a 21 year old amater. he probably has about 15 years left of being punched in the head, maybe even more.

as much as i love boxing, i think you gotta be a bit crazy to be a boxer tbh

[margaret thatcher]

two other team gb guys got ko'd in that tournament btw, its not like guys just start fresh at 0 damage when they turn pro

[Frostieballs]

Some good insight on here guys.

I too have often felt conflicted about my love and minor involvement (for a small period of time) in the sport.

As I get older, the argument that everyone is a willing participant who knows the risks holds less water with me. Particularly as I don’t think we do know all the risks.

It’s not just the impacts on physical health either. The sport seems to continually chew people up them spit them out, with loads of boxers struggling mentally after that final bell rings.

A few make enough money and seem happy in retirement. Others get commentating/training gigs and find some long term position that seems to work for them. But these are the minority.

[Terminator666]

A mate of mine boxed professionally in the 90s - as well as an extensive amateur career-he is almost 60 now and despite some tough fights is very healthy. He said though if he had his time again he wouldn’t box. I guess we feel a little bit invincible when young then as we age realise that’s not the case

[Controversial]

A mate of mine boxed professionally in the 90s - as well as an extensive amateur career-he is almost 60 now and despite some tough fights is very healthy. He said though if he had his time again he wouldn’t box. I guess we feel a little bit invincible when young then as we age realise that’s not the case

Why wouldn't he box given the choice did he say?

[mickey1975]

two other team gb guys got ko'd in that tournament btw, its not like guys just start fresh at 0 damage when they turn pro

Have you seen the England super heavy Matt Williams? He gave the Kazakhstan guy who won the worlds in Liverpool a standing count last month and lost on points. Absolutely relentless.

[margaret thatcher]

two other team gb guys got ko'd in that tournament btw, its not like guys just start fresh at 0 damage when they turn pro

Have you seen the England super heavy Matt Williams? He gave the Kazakhstan guy who won the worlds in Liverpool a standing count last month and lost on points. Absolutely relentless.

ya tough as nails, at first he doesnt look like anything much but he keeps going and going

[Terminator666]

A mate of mine boxed professionally in the 90s - as well as an extensive amateur career-he is almost 60 now and despite some tough fights is very healthy. He said though if he had his time again he wouldn’t box. I guess we feel a little bit invincible when young then as we age realise that’s not the case

More aware of brain injury risks

Why wouldn't he box given the choice did he say?

[dookus]

I struggle with it, morally, a lot. I am always happy when fighters get out at the right time. And aside from the very worst cases (one or two spring to mind) I won't ever condemn a fighter for quitting.

[Controversial]

There’s a programme on BBC1 now investigating links with rugby and brain health (MND/CTE/dementia) if anyone interested called Ben Youngs Investigates, it’ll be on iPlayer.

[KiwiRider]

You know this is a subject , i have given a lot of thought too , and i've got NO PRACTICAL knoledge of all this stuff , but what i do have is years of being in a gym in one form or another , Has i got older training lads i suppose you could say i got softer and started to worry about this sort of thing and absolutly changed my mind on things ,

Don't beat yourself up about just coming into this way of thinking.
It's really only been the last 8 or so years that technology, science and the years it takes to track cases, has given clear and concise understanding of how this trauma affects people, how much and how long for symptoms are still unknowns.
One of the biggest takeaways is age.
It's way worse if the trauma happens after the brain goes through the first aging shrinkage. That's why I'm so against boxers over 40 still fighting, it's almost guaranteed to be very bad later on, and that sucks if it's someone you have known or been a big fan of.

[gilgamesh]

It's definitely the most uncomfortable side effect of the sport on its participants, and the thing we all should keep in mind anytime a guy retires leaving a few fights on the table. Some guys can take insane amounts of punishment and never show any effect. Some guys can be permanently injured from what didn't seem all that severe at first glance. It's as risky as it gets to compete in the sport, but the risk is part of the thrill honestly.

Takes a lot to overcome the dangers of this sport.

I definitely worry for the fighters like Dave Allen who's plan is just to let you punch yourself out on them.

[Controversial]

I think there will be a lot of fighters who are affected but you just won’t hear about it as they weren’t household names or are private and don’t want it being known by the general public. Plus of course it’s not something the organisations or fighters are going to shine a light on.