Is Wilder the never-was type of a fighter?

[DrDuke]

If we try to rank his opponents:

1. Fury - loss 0-2-1 and probably even 0-3
2. Parker - loss
3-4. Zhang - loss
3-4. Ortiz - win 2-0, but went life-and-death
5. Stiverne - win 2-0
6. Helenius - win
7. Breleaze - win

Are the other even worth of being mentioned?

[margaret thatcher]

win wise, wilder is a major case of quantity over quality

eventually he ko'd enough mediocre opposition that people bought into him. predictions of him beating everyone else out there. kos over nobodies taken as evidence that the top guys wouldnt get up. we had knowledgable posters here predicting he'd ko 1 prime riddick bowe, prime holyfield, etc. he went from underrated to overrated. parker and zhang beat him anyway, it's not some post fury only thing

almost 50 fights, 10+ title deffenses, yet f@cking stiverne and dom brezeale are among his top 3 victims. no wonder wilder fans love on luis ortiz so much.

his management did great

[margaret thatcher]

derek chisora could've gone on a big title run if he'd gotten the likes of szpilka, washington, molina, duhaupas, washed up arreola, etc, especially if he'd been the hyped a side. he beat multiple wilder challengers as it is

[margaret thatcher]

but no, wilder doesnt count as a never was, he did enough to be a somebody, in part because of excellent managament, but also being able to deliver enough to stay a player in shallow division. he wass rated in the top 5 or 10 for years (somehow, some people are adamant he's still top 15). had some very high profile and lucrative fights. won a title and beat challengers, albeit mostly dreadful opposition, but the occasional ranked guy

a never was blows out before all that, someone more like dominic guinn (although he turned into a very good journeyman tbf, he was a somebody in that area)

[Evander]

Deontay never really learned to box.
Good one punch and explosive though.

[Controversial]

Being reported online his fiance has got a restraining order against him for physical abuse

[apollo creed]

Pretty much a hypejob being brought up very smartly. He is an "overachiever" considering he doesn't know how to box properly and he doesn't have no boxing fundamentals. 2015 UD Stiverne is Wilder's best win.

[tonyevs]

I think his punch is just as over rated as his overall ability. What quality boxer did he KO actually surprise to KO? Victor Ortiz? But again - what quality did Ortiz actually beat?

The Wilder KO power was verified because he knocked down Fury heavily .. but even much smaller and lightly regarded punchers have done that before and since.

[joshj909]

Wilder is 3-4-1 against legitimate top 15 heavyweights and 0-4-1 against undisputed top 10 heavyweights.

He beat one unproven old man and a load of low skilled and past it heavies. Wilder's careers relies on two things:
1) Draw with Fury which was a poor judging decision against a very unfit Fury.
2) Beating Ortiz who had one semi-impressive win.

Ortiz is 0-3 against top 10 heavyweights and 1-3 against top 15 heavyweights. He was 40 in their second fight and 39 the fight before. Ortiz was winning both fights on fan cards before being stopped. Ortiz was then soundly beaten by Ruiz 3 years later.

Ortiz was not able to finish glass chinned Malik Scott, nor a number of other guys at domestic level. He was also dropped twice by Charles Martin. His only relevant win is Bryant Jennings which was a standout performance against a fringe top 15 heavyweight. Jennings went on to lose to both top 15 heavyweights he faced and crushed cans from then on. Ortiz's reputation and Wilder's reputation rely almost entirely on this fight.

Take Wilder's belt away and he's just another Malik Scott with KO power. Padded record.

[gilgamesh]

I certainly don't see Wilder as a never was. He's probably the greatest overachiever in the history of the sport. I can't think of any other fighter who only had 1 real weapon who accomplished as much as Wilder.

Oh and as for the list in the OP. I think it's fair to say that Duhaupas while no world beater is probably a better win on Wilder's record than Breazeale is.

[margaret thatcher]

lol, when a long time champ's record is so weak we have to upgrade john duhaupas to one of his very best victims. duhaup did show a hell of a chin though, took 11 rounds of bombs without going down, even though wilder supposedly destroys everything as soon as he hits it

[gilgamesh]

lol, when a long time champ's record is so weak we have to upgrade john duhaupas to one of his very best victims

He definitely doesn't have a stellar record, but there's probably been very few guys through Boxing history who ever made more money to fight a less challenging crop of challengers so he's got that going for him.

Weak titleholders usually even when fighting weak competition don't wind up making as many successful title defenses as Wilder so whether it's shrewd management or Wilder's punch or a combination of both he definitely accomplished a fair amount for a guy with little to no Boxing skill.

The closest fighters you could compare him to would be Ingemar Johansson and Earnie Shavers. Ingemar only really has the one noteworthy win over Floyd Patterson. Wilder's record stacks up favorably to his.

Earnie Shavers' best win over Norton is definitely a better win than anything on Wilder's record, and that's an interesting matchup head to head for sure, but Wilder undoubtedly had a more successful career.

Ultimately Wilder won't go down as one of the best Heavyweights ever or probably even one of the 30 or 40 best, but to have achieved all he did with a hell of a right hand, and virtually nothing else at his disposal is impressive.

That's pretty much Wilder's legacy. Deontay Wilder = One Hell of a Right Hand.

[margaret thatcher]

yes he was steered very well and made the most of what he had for sure

[dempseyfire]

lol, when a long time champ's record is so weak we have to upgrade john duhaupas to one of his very best victims

Earnie Shavers' best win over Norton is definitely a better win than anything on Wilder's record, and that's an interesting matchup head to head for sure, but Wilder undoubtedly had a more successful career.

This is really unfair to Shavers, since Earnie came up in an era of one 1 HW champ (at times in his career there were technically two but generally one commonly recognized champ). Wilder's WBC title was the definition of a paper belt; having Chris Arreola and Bermane Stiverne be the two guys who fight for the vacant title was the very definition of Don King/sanctioning body corruption. And his "title challengers" outside of Ortiz were not even top 10 heavyweights; complete joke of a "title run." Shavers would've starched all of those guys. Shavers victims Jeff Sims and Roy Tiger Williams would've both knocked Wilder into next week,.

[margaret thatcher]

indeed

imagine shavers vs the likes of art szpilka, eric molina, gerald washington, etc.

[skanksta]

You gotta salute Deontay and Dillian Whyte too
HOF careers big names, PPV money fights galore... despite never having anything like that level of talent.
Deontay can be especially proud - @ 215 he was fighting significantly bigger men throughout.

So "No" he wasn't a "never was" - he was pretty cool.

[margaret thatcher]

You gotta salute Deontay and Dillian Whyte too
HOF careers big names, PPV money fights galore... despite never having anything like that level of talent.
Deontay can be especially proud - @ 215 he was fighting significantly bigger men throughout.

So "No" he wasn't a "never was" - he was pretty cool.

hall of fame big names? did wilder fight a probable hall of famer other than fury?

[skanksta]

You gotta salute Deontay and Dillian Whyte too
HOF careers big names, PPV money fights galore... despite never having anything like that level of talent.
Deontay can be especially proud - @ 215 he was fighting significantly bigger men throughout.

So "No" he wasn't a "never was" - he was pretty cool.

hall of fame big names? did wilder fight a probable hall of famer other than fury?

No, but 1x3 is kinda the same.
He won a ton of money and fame and almost made it to the top...offa terrible fundamentals and serious flaws.
That's actually more impressive to overachieve like that - compare him to say... Boo Boo Andrade who coulda been anything he wanted almost - now he was a "never was type of fighter"

[margaret thatcher]

well fury is pretty unstable, maybe there are multiple versions of him lurking around

[giacomino]

I don’t remember a ton of people on here thinking Wilder was a legit star or great fighter. Seems like a lot of threads about a guy most people assumed was a paper belt holder, like about 10-15 or so other current “world champions” on the various divisions. Good right hand, that’s about it. Some “world champions” in other divisions have more pathetic records, IMO

[Noxy]

Being rather clinical here. Wilder was a personality with a good physique who engaged with the media. That also counts.

[ironbeard]

but no, wilder doesnt count as a never was, he did enough to be a somebody, in part because of excellent managament, but also being able to deliver enough to stay a player in shallow division. he wass rated in the top 5 or 10 for years (somehow, some people are adamant he's still top 15). had some very high profile and lucrative fights. won a title and beat challengers, albeit mostly dreadful opposition, but the occasional ranked guy

a never was blows out before all that, someone more like dominic guinn (although he turned into a very good journeyman tbf, he was a somebody in that area)

[margaret thatcher]

[tonyevs]

And even when Wilder started mixing it with the quality boxers in the division - and got embarrassed. He has been able to have enough people saying it's simply down to now being past it .. even though he never actually got there ability wise.

The sparring with David Haye kinda shows the same Wilder we saw against Fury/Parker/Zhang.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Wilder was always a terrible boxer. Heck they had to fix a fight with malik Scott

His right hand is clearly good and powerful.

He tried to fight povetkin in his prime. He avoided joshua. He took the fury fight because fury loomed ripe for the picking - he damn near got that win