Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑08 Jun 2024, 07:38
Wilder was always a terrible boxer. Heck they had to fix a fight with malik Scott
His right hand is clearly good and powerful.
He tried to fight povetkin in his prime. He avoided joshua. He took the fury fight because fury loomed ripe for the picking - he damn near got that win
Yup, Fury came out from his retirement, so it was seen as good opportunity for Wilder's handlers but Fury was sly and he knew that Wilder will bite the bait. It was a good strategy for Fury to take a big title from a paper champ.
Povetkin or AJ , at that time would've beaten Wilder.
giacomino wrote: ↑07 Jun 2024, 17:50
I don’t remember a ton of people on here thinking Wilder was a legit star or great fighter. Seems like a lot of threads about a guy most people assumed was a paper belt holder, like about 10-15 or so other current “world champions” on the various divisions. Good right hand, that’s about it. Some “world champions” in other divisions have more pathetic records, IMO
Yup, there are a lot of old threads where people are mocking his weak resume and how he got a title. But man, his handlers did a very good job with hand-picking the right type of opposition to build up Wilder's resume. I mean they did a great job.
tonyevs wrote: ↑08 Jun 2024, 08:55
Wilder and Tony Bellew once got into a verbal - Bellew didn`t seem too impressed by Wilder.
Who do we think would have won between those two at the time?
Bellew late on I recon.
Bellew would've struggled to beat any top 50 heavyweight who wasn't absolutely past it as much as Haye was. Haye was a fragile man by the time Bellew beat him. Wilder would've KO'd him.
tonyevs wrote: ↑08 Jun 2024, 08:55
Wilder and Tony Bellew once got into a verbal - Bellew didn`t seem too impressed by Wilder.
Who do we think would have won between those two at the time?
Bellew late on I recon.
Bellew would've struggled to beat any top 50 heavyweight who wasn't absolutely past it as much as Haye was. Haye was a fragile man by the time Bellew beat him. Wilder would've KO'd him.
Haye was past his prime but the extent that Bellew dominated him twice shows me he would've given Haye fits at any point in his career and likely beaten him. Bellew also gave Usyk one of his more competitive fights before he was stopped. He would've likely beaten Wilder although of course Deontay would have a puncher's chance.
tonyevs wrote: ↑08 Jun 2024, 08:55
Wilder and Tony Bellew once got into a verbal - Bellew didn`t seem too impressed by Wilder.
Who do we think would have won between those two at the time?
Bellew late on I recon.
Bellew would've struggled to beat any top 50 heavyweight who wasn't absolutely past it as much as Haye was. Haye was a fragile man by the time Bellew beat him. Wilder would've KO'd him.
Haye was past his prime but the extent that Bellew dominated him twice shows me he would've given Haye fits at any point in his career and likely beaten him. Bellew also gave Usyk one of his more competitive fights before he was stopped. He would've likely beaten Wilder although of course Deontay would have a puncher's chance.
Massively disagree. Haye was pretty much 5 years into his retirement and made of glass. Even Bellew admitted Haye was a better fighter than he was and he only won against the past it Haye.
He never was. He got to 43-0 (42 KO's) but as we all know, he resume was / is shocking.
At least 20 of his opponents was were unranked, meaning outside the top 500. Another 15 odd ranked between 60 to 498. Is it any wonder he had the record he had.
I'd wager any of AJ, Dubois, Hrg, Fury, Joyce, Zhiang, Parker, Chisora etc could have done that. The average fan sees those numbers and their eyes go into orbit and they begin frothing at the mouth.
Finkel deserves so much credit for steering him away from so many tougher fights and (somehow) managing to convince the WBC to ignore Dillian Whyte's No1 contender status for 2 years. In hindsight, it was wise and Finkel knew Whyte could have conceivably beat him. That is damaging, all round (the ducking).
I can partially understand, and no offence to the US members on these boards, but American promoters were desperate to have an American HW Champ hold, at least, a title and Wilder provided the platform. An Olympic bronze medallist, a big guy and one who easily knocked out (lower tier) opponents, so that gave him a base and was a pretty easy sell to the US networks. The WBC were happy to be in on the meal ticket.
Defending the title against a 4th ranked a creaking Ortiz, twice (getting beaten up) and then contenders up in the 40's, 50's and 60's was deplorable. Szpika, Arreola, Washington, Duphas, Breazeale, Stiverne etc, 10 defences, in total.
Like Tonyevs, I still think his power has been vastly overrated. Knocking Fury down was not a massive feat tbh, Cunningham, Pajkic, Ngannou and Uysk all done the same and bar Ngannou, none of the them were particularly heavy hitters and Cunningham dropped him hardest out them all. Zhiang said he felt Wilder's power but wasn't really all that.
People mock Mike Tyson, saying he fought nobodies but he beat 12 World Champions, for example. Wilder? Stiverne and Liakhovich both hardly approaching stellar by any stretch.
tonyevs wrote: ↑08 Jun 2024, 08:55
Wilder and Tony Bellew once got into a verbal - Bellew didn`t seem too impressed by Wilder.
Who do we think would have won between those two at the time?
Bellew late on I recon.
Bellew would've struggled to beat any top 50 heavyweight who wasn't absolutely past it as much as Haye was. Haye was a fragile man by the time Bellew beat him. Wilder would've KO'd him.
Haye was past his prime but the extent that Bellew dominated him twice shows me he would've given Haye fits at any point in his career and likely beaten him. Bellew also gave Usyk one of his more competitive fights before he was stopped. He would've likely beaten Wilder although of course Deontay would have a puncher's chance.
Puncher's chance? He'd flatten Bellew 10 times out of 10.
Yes. And i can back that up by knowing one of the guys on his hit list personally. I went to high school with this guy. Not only was he not even close to being a heavyweight, he had 10 times more losses in the pros than he had wins. Wilder’s early career was filled by these types of guys. I put him in the class of MCCall and Moorer. It’s amazing that he can forever call himself a former heavyweight champion.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑07 Jun 2024, 00:13
derek chisora could've gone on a big title run if he'd gotten the likes of szpilka, washington, molina, duhaupas, washed up arreola, etc, especially if he'd been the hyped a side. he beat multiple wilder challengers as it is
And if Dillian Whyte (a good puncher) could put him out with a single shot, Wilder would take his head off.
tonyevs wrote: ↑07 Jun 2024, 07:47
I think his punch is just as over rated as his overall ability. What quality boxer did he KO actually surprise to KO? Victor Ortiz? But again - what quality did Ortiz actually beat?
The Wilder KO power was verified because he knocked down Fury heavily .. but even much smaller and lightly regarded punchers have done that before and since.
Luis Ortiz perhaps?
Viscous Victor was too small to headbutt this fella.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑07 Jun 2024, 00:13
derek chisora could've gone on a big title run if he'd gotten the likes of szpilka, washington, molina, duhaupas, washed up arreola, etc, especially if he'd been the hyped a side. he beat multiple wilder challengers as it is
And if Dillian Whyte (a good puncher) could put him out with a single shot, Wilder would take his head off.
could well be, true true, but you gotta actually fight the fights to see for sure. parker got dropped hard by whyte too yet didnt lose a round or come close to being dropped by wilder. and lol, destroying chisora would easily be one of wilder's very best wins, prob his 2nd best victim at minimum. laughably little depth for a guy with 43 wins and 10+ or however many title wins it was
tonyevs wrote: ↑07 Jun 2024, 07:47
I think his punch is just as over rated as his overall ability. What quality boxer did he KO actually surprise to KO? Victor Ortiz? But again - what quality did Ortiz actually beat?
The Wilder KO power was verified because he knocked down Fury heavily .. but even much smaller and lightly regarded punchers have done that before and since.
Luis Ortiz perhaps?
Viscous Victor was too small to headbutt this fella.
Wilder was a great puncher with a lot of heart but not much balance or skill.
Let's not forget that the majority of fans and experts were picking him to beat Joshua before this end of his career. Most boxers lose some edge and pick up losses at the end of their career. Look at Roy Jones.
True, he didn't beat great opposition, and always looked somewhat vulnerable. He did do himself well to make 10 defenses of the wbc belt.
So not a great, or even good champion really. But a guy with enough power (and speed) to knock out anyone. If they would make a mistake.
fanman wrote: ↑14 Jun 2024, 14:04
Let's not forget that the majority of fans and experts were picking him to beat Joshua before this end of his career......
To be honest, I must have been in the minority, then as I never ever saw him beating AJ. Ever.
Watching his (Wilder) fights and seeing how struggled and how he was getting continually outboxed and (in most cases) beaten up, always thought, with AJ's power, size and decent boxing ability, he would nail Wilder to the canvas.
Just could never see Wilder winning that match up, even in his 'prime'. He avoided the heavy bangers and guys with good skills and took on far less demanding opponents....and even then, some of those were putting it on him.
Plus, feel that his power is overrated. Didn't make a dent in Parker, dropped Fury but so has half a dozen other light / average hitting fighters, hit Zhiang and Zhaing said his power was ok but not really as much as he thought.
Record looks good, until take a proper look and then you say, 'Oh sh*t....' I mean, Szpika, Washington, Duphaus, Arreola, Breazeale etc.....not great and no great shakes building up that KO record. Deceptive.
fanman wrote: ↑14 Jun 2024, 14:04
Let's not forget that the majority of fans and experts were picking him to beat Joshua before this end of his career......
To be honest, I must have been in the minority, then as I never ever saw him beating AJ. Ever.
Watching his (Wilder) fights and seeing how struggled and how he was getting continually outboxed and (in most cases) beaten up, always thought, with AJ's power, size and decent boxing ability, he would nail Wilder to the canvas.
Just could never see Wilder winning that match up, even in his 'prime'. He avoided the heavy bangers and guys with good skills and took on far less demanding opponents....and even then, some of those were putting it on him.
Plus, feel that his power is overrated. Didn't make a dent in Parker, dropped Fury but so has half a dozen other light / average hitting fighters, hit Zhiang and Zhaing said his power was ok but not really as much as he thought.
Record looks good, until take a proper look and then you say, 'Oh sh*t....' I mean, Szpika, Washington, Duphaus, Arreola, Breazeale etc.....not great and no great shakes building up that KO record. Deceptive.
I've long been a huge Wilder detractor but he has legit one punch power. Practically everyone who's sparred or fought him has confirmed it. Yes Zhang said he didn't feel it but Wilder also never really landed a clean shot with force the whole night.
i always picked aj over wilder. it's hilarious to me that a common opinion was aj would be passive and wilder would just stroll in there and aggressively bomb at him, that's now how wilder fights at all, he's every bit as tentative as aj ever was. he has fights averaging like 20 punches a round
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Jun 2024, 15:47
i always picked aj over wilder. it's hilarious to me that a common opinion was aj would be passive and wilder would just stroll in there and aggressively bomb at him, that's now how wilder fights at all, he's every bit as tentative as aj ever was. he has fights averaging like 20 punches a round
paw, paw , paw ,paw , right hand
repeat , repeat
Yeah I've always thought of that as a fight where Wilder would have a puncher's chance, but AJ would win 9 times out of 10. AJ would know full well that Wilder was dangerous with the right hand, and he wouldn't fight foolishly.
.. me mixing up these two legends 