coneye wrote: ↑13 Jun 2024, 18:12
If he does'nt make BIG CHANGES in the camp and make them like NOW or YESTERDAY things will remain the same , its not rocket science we all know its stupid to try and outbox a better boxer , We al know Tyson has to put it on him and drag him into a fight , BUT the problem is to do that Tyson has to improve and Usyk can probably improve on his game plan has well ,
I think the key issue is for Tyson to get rid of his whole team and , bring in some people who know where to make the adjustments , and i believe personaly its in the feet and the body pressure , this is where Usyk excels . he's always in range close enough to to put you under presure but far enough to make you lunge , he needs to be beat at his own game , centre of he ring weight on front foot and let the hands go , the minuite he has you leaning back he'll catch you , tight gaurd loose hands ,
I think in this case Freddy Roach would be a good fit , , he really just needs to get his offensive game in check , and its gonna take more than grappling and wrestling and heart
Could Tyson win the rematch YES he could ,, WILL HE probably not
Yeah, Freddie Roach is great at putting a final polish on already good fighters. But he is pretty thinly stretched these days, and not in peak health unfortunately either.
Tyson needs a day in, day out guy because he is easily distracted
mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Jun 2024, 08:08
I think it's a 50-50 fight. He knows what he has to do. People are letting their hatred of Fury get in the way of their judgement. There wasn't that much between them and Usyk looked like he'd been through it after the fight.
Despite what the judges score cards said - Usyk won it clearly. And whilst Tyson had Usyk backing up with that uppercut - it was Usyk who shook Tyson to his boots literally making him sag onto the ropes with one shot, and had him out on his feet with the follow up.
Therefore only a very biased Tyson Fury fan would still see it as a 50/50 fight.
Sure Tyson Fury could win - but based on the last time, and depending on having honest judges scoring it - then its 70/30 in Usyks favour without doubt.
I don’t see it like that at all. Tyson had a spell in the fight where he looked in control he got caught with a big shot that changed the fight. Usyk won but the fight was close, I don’t have the rematch as 70-30 it’s a lot closer than that
There are a lot of Usyk fights where his opponent appears to have the beating of him early on - only for Usyk then to take over the 2nd half.
Those good rounds Tyson Fury clearly had early on may have just been Usyk getting him to work harder than he was able to sustain .. it may have been Usyk still figuring Tyson out. But the end result was Usyk almost stopped Tyson Fury a couple rounds later and clearly won.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Jun 2024, 08:08
I think it's a 50-50 fight. He knows what he has to do. People are letting their hatred of Fury get in the way of their judgement. There wasn't that much between them and Usyk looked like he'd been through it after the fight.
Despite what the judges score cards said - Usyk won it clearly. And whilst Tyson had Usyk backing up with that uppercut - it was Usyk who shook Tyson to his boots literally making him sag onto the ropes with one shot, and had him out on his feet with the follow up.
Therefore only a very biased Tyson Fury fan would still see it as a 50/50 fight.
Sure Tyson Fury could win - but based on the last time, and depending on having honest judges scoring it - then its 70/30 in Usyks favour without doubt.
I don’t see it like that at all. Tyson had a spell in the fight where he looked in control he got caught with a big shot that changed the fight. Usyk won but the fight was close, I don’t have the rematch as 70-30 it’s a lot closer than that
all these fights he had his highest output in the last quarter of the fight
closing strong is his specialty, he figures things out and has the fitness to apply it in the 2nd half. not just a matter of taking away 1 shot and it's no longer his fight.
on the other hand, the margin was very close. it would hardly take a huge shift to end up with fury being the 1 point winner
No big deal. He’s had pretty much 6 months straight in training camps with the cut & if he has a few blow outs now 5 or 6 months from the rematch it won’t impact him. If he’s still at it in 2 months time it’s a different story & would be a worry
It was interesting how fast Usyk started and was able to clip and even stun Fury straight from the off. I think he broke his nose in the 1st round.
Usyk used a great strategy, being aggressive to tire out his bigger, heavier opponent. He had to walk through some fire though, Fury was not too far away from stopping him in the 6th.
Fury's defense was not good enough, he was taking too many shots.
Usyk did have to use a tremendous amount of energy to press and work his way inside.
If Fury can make it a slower pace and keep centre ring a little more, he has to have a good chance to swing a couple more rounds his way.
Usyk did great, but he does have a fair chance of walking onto a big shot when closing distance. It was a phenomenal permormance, but I'm not sure that he can repeat it.
It was interesting how fast Usyk started and was able to clip and even stun Fury straight from the off. I think he broke his nose in the 1st round.
Usyk used a great strategy, being aggressive to tire out his bigger, heavier opponent. He had to walk through some fire though, Fury was not too far away from stopping him in the 6th.
Fury's defense was not good enough, he was taking too many shots.
Usyk did have to use a tremendous amount of energy to press and work his way inside.
If Fury can make it a slower pace and keep centre ring a little more, he has to have a good chance to swing a couple more rounds his way.
Usyk did great, but he does have a fair chance of walking onto a big shot when closing distance. It was a phenomenal permormance, but I'm not sure that he can repeat it.
excellent post. Agree. Also think Fury could surprise us all, he's done it many times.
It was interesting how fast Usyk started and was able to clip and even stun Fury straight from the off. I think he broke his nose in the 1st round.
Usyk used a great strategy, being aggressive to tire out his bigger, heavier opponent. He had to walk through some fire though, Fury was not too far away from stopping him in the 6th.
Fury's defense was not good enough, he was taking too many shots.
Usyk did have to use a tremendous amount of energy to press and work his way inside.
If Fury can make it a slower pace and keep centre ring a little more, he has to have a good chance to swing a couple more rounds his way.
Usyk did great, but he does have a fair chance of walking onto a big shot when closing distance. It was a phenomenal permormance, but I'm not sure that he can repeat it.
excellent post. Agree. Also think Fury could surprise us all, he's done it many times.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
fury has won 2 fights as underdog i think? done it before for sure, though not particularly often
was slight fave vs usyk and lost
with how competitive the first fight was, you can really make a decent argument either way, though usyk being able to push it that bit more and get to fury in the end makes me lean toward him again. figures guys out , even if just in time.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Jun 2024, 21:18
fury has won 2 fights as underdog i think? done it before for sure, though not particularly often
was slight fave vs usyk and lost
with how competitive the first fight was, you can really make a decent argument either way, though usyk being able to push it that bit more and get to fury in the end makes me lean toward him again. figures guys out , even if just in time.
Honestly can't see why all the cafoodle about Tyson having a night out ,, I knowif i was training Tysn i would say Ok , you got beat , NOW were gonna change it. Hopefully he would say what we gonna do and i would say .
We start on 1 st of july , but inbetween , go enjoy your money and your familly , but 10th of june keep free cos me you your family and your mates were gonna let our hair down , get t out the system , and then were going to work
Honestly cannot see the problem , getting pissed out of training SO WHAT
It was interesting how fast Usyk started and was able to clip and even stun Fury straight from the off. I think he broke his nose in the 1st round.
Usyk used a great strategy, being aggressive to tire out his bigger, heavier opponent. He had to walk through some fire though, Fury was not too far away from stopping him in the 6th.
Fury's defense was not good enough, he was taking too many shots.
Usyk did have to use a tremendous amount of energy to press and work his way inside.
If Fury can make it a slower pace and keep centre ring a little more, he has to have a good chance to swing a couple more rounds his way.
Usyk did great, but he does have a fair chance of walking onto a big shot when closing distance. It was a phenomenal permormance, but I'm not sure that he can repeat it.
excellent post. Agree. Also think Fury could surprise us all, he's done it many times.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
excellent post. Agree. Also think Fury could surprise us all, he's done it many times.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
Ages mean different things with different fighters. Klitschko was 39 but kept himself in great shape and trained hard. He was the consummate professional in many ways, he didn't blow up in weight, go off the rails or cut corners. He was probably fitter and stronger than everyone in the HW division at that time. On the flip side Mike Tyson was past his best in his early 30s as was Ali.
excellent post. Agree. Also think Fury could surprise us all, he's done it many times.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
Not many people have really changed the narrative on Wilder, most of us always said he was crap and super protected. It's hardly surprising that he finally stepped up in class and lost every time.
excellent post. Agree. Also think Fury could surprise us all, he's done it many times.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
have to disagree with that. i think the cats been out of the bag regarding wilder since the 2nd ortiz fight. guy really is one of the most overrated heavyweights to ever play the game, and i dont consider myself any kind of expert for saying so 5 years ago, i think a lot of folk were on the same page.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
have to disagree with that. i think the cats been out of the bag regarding wilder since the 2nd ortiz fight. guy really is one of the most overrated heavyweights to ever play the game, and i dont consider myself any kind of expert for saying so 5 years ago, i think a lot of folk were on the same page.
I agree with you. I didn't rate him after the first Ortiz fight. I only picked him to beat Fury in the first because of how out of shape I thought Fury would be. Other than that, I've favoured everyone else against him except Helenius and Breazeale.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
have to disagree with that. i think the cats been out of the bag regarding wilder since the 2nd ortiz fight. guy really is one of the most overrated heavyweights to ever play the game, and i dont consider myself any kind of expert for saying so 5 years ago, i think a lot of folk were on the same page.
I agree with you. I didn't rate him after the first Ortiz fight. I only picked him to beat Fury in the first because of how out of shape I thought Fury would be. Other than that, I've favoured everyone else against him except Helenius and Breazeale.
No narrative about Wilder has been altered at all. He’s long been regarded as overrated with a padded record.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
Not many people have really changed the narrative on Wilder, most of us always said he was crap and super protected. It's hardly surprising that he finally stepped up in class and lost every time.
Aye, he was extremely feared though and with good reason, boxing limitations notwithstanding.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
Ages mean different things with different fighters. Klitschko was 39 but kept himself in great shape and trained hard. He was the consummate professional in many ways, he didn't blow up in weight, go off the rails or cut corners. He was probably fitter and stronger than everyone in the HW division at that time. On the flip side Mike Tyson was past his best in his early 30s as was Ali.
really good point. I know Father Time won't wait for anyone forever, but he waits a long longer if you live the right life (and fight the right fight in-ring) and Wlad was the perfect personification of both. 2 years later I remember being surprised as he was on his toes more than ever in his career, against AJ at 41 years of age.
excellent post. Agree. Also think Fury could surprise us all, he's done it many times.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
being a title holder is just a fluff label on its own. i notice that when ppl emphasize wilder being a long time champ they never mention who hhe actually beat in that time. wilder's opposition was dreadful. derek chisora would be at worst his 2nd best victim if he ever beat him
usyk woulda absolutely clowned wilder at any point
Last edited by margaret thatcher on 15 Jun 2024, 16:21, edited 1 time in total.
Against who though Sean?
Old Wlad and Wilder have been his best wins. Uysk would have beaten both. Whyte was shot, Chisora was a cash grab. Its a slim resume.
Wlad might have been old but he was a loooooong undefeated champ and he went over into his adopted homeland and won, the comeback from out of ring issues surprised nearly everyone, the Wilder win was epic at the time (we've changed the narrative about Wilder now he's lost 4 badly) as he was long reining WBC champ. And regarding Usyk - we'll never know if he'd have beaten both, or either.
being a title holder is just a fluff title on its own. gotta looks at who they actually beat, wilder's opposition was dreadful. derek chisora would be at worst his 2nd best victim if he ever beat him
usyk woulda absolutely clowned wilder at any point
he beat the people in front of him, and held the best belt. Fair play. Every champion beat plenty of less than stellar challengers.
