DID MARCIANO QUIT RATHER THAN FIGHT FLOYD PATTERSON????!!!

[Ambling Alp]

See now what you state is opinion...the FACT is this...Marciano never was knocked out and he faced some pretty big punhers...he was hit well by some pretty big punchers, so odds are...Liston would not KO Marciano. If Bert Whitehurt could take what Liston had to offer then I'm pretty certain Marciano would as well...but Patterson...well we saw what happened there...two consecutive first round knockouts by Liston...Marciano had just as hard a punch as Liston, if not better!

Its not my opinion that Marciano retired surely?.... unless he had some fights I dont know about!. Patterson was the top contender and its obvious that he would have merited a shot had Rocky carried on fighting.
I think Liston had far more power than Rocky, he used to ko people clean out... often early in fights, while Rocky was more a wear them down type fighter... his one punch power is overrated imo... aside from that Liston was a far superior technical boxer and would probably bash Rocky up with the jab... look at how well a shot Louis did against Rocky with the jab until he ran out of gas!...

Patterson wasn't the top contender when Marciano retired. He hadn't defeated any of the top contenders at the time that Marciano retired.
Patterson's first big win at heavweight was over Tommy Jackson, which was after Marciano had already retired.
There was no contender that stood out. There was no "big fight" out there when Marciano retired.

[HomicideHenry]

The injury was a scam I believe. I have heard several stories of the supposed 'back injury' but many close to Rocky said that it wasn't true.

To put the record straight THE number one contender for Marciano's title after he beaten Archie Moore was NINO VALDES, he was to be Marciano's 50th opponent. According to the RING rankings of December 1955 these were the top contenders:

1. Archie Moore
2. Bob Baker
3. Tommy Jackson
4. Bob Satterfield
5. Ezzard Charles
6. John Holman
7. Nino Valdes
8. Earl Walls
9. Jimmy Slade
10. Don Cockell

He had by that time already dispatched of Ezzard Charles twice, and at the beginning of 1955 defended against Don Cockell in an 'easy' defense and then beat on Archie Moore, in what would be his last fight. Marciano's 50th opponent was to be Argentinian Nino Valdes, who managed to pull off a few wins over Cockell and Ken Hammer, but losing to Machen twice, Folley, Satterfield, Baker and Moore between 1955-1956.

That fight with Valdes may very well have been another 'easy' defense for Marciano, considering Valdes win-loss record for those two years. Satterfield, Baker and other fighters would have been also easy for Marciano, considering their win-loss record for the times as well.

As you can see Floyd Patterson was no where near the top ten, as he was more or less a MW turn LHW and only got into the HW tournament after Marciano retired after beating Jimmy Slade by KO in 7th, which was more or less a TKO because the referee didn't feel Slade was even trying to fight, and of course winning a decision over Tommy Jackson.

The Patterson-Moore fight was not really Floyd's best showings, despite what everyone thinks. For the first four rounds Moore was ahead on points[Moore was also the betting favorite in the contest] and was caught with a punch in the 5th. Lucky shot.

Marciano, in an article of Collier's Magazine, has stated that he felt he had a few more fights in him, or at least 4-5 more years of boxing, which meant he would have wanted to have fought on into 1959-1960. Whatever the reasons or explainations, he retired, though considered come backs against the likes of Patterson, Johansson and even Sonny Liston, but there was simply not enough revenue to generate the amount of money that Marciano would have wanted.

It is in my opinion, had Marciano have continued fighting, he would have beaten all the men listed on the list and remain undefeated, including Patterson and Johansson. If he had fought Liston, there is the big possibilty that Marciano could have lost to the prime Liston, but in either case, prime or not, it would have been a tough fight for Marciano, just like it was when he faced Walcott and Charles.

[Aldo Pravisani]

Opinions...opinions!!!!

Well Barry, you know what Dirty Harry had to say about opinions: They are like arseholes: Everyone has one! :-)

Then again what would we do without one? (opinion that is)

[Cojimar 1945]

An inexperienced Patterson actually ko'd Moore quicker than Marciano did. Perhaps Moore would have beaten all the guys Rocky beat considering Moore was one of Marciano's most formidable opponnents and Patterson did not have much experience when he beat him.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

silkov......marciano retired in april 1956.


please answer me this.........what did patterson do at heavyweight prior to april 1956 to clearly earn the right to challenge marciano? are u telling me marciano was afraid of a guy who eaked out a split decision over hurricane jackson? patterson was a 168lb just one year earlier and he was a non proven heavyweight when rocky retired. we found out after marciano retired just how good patterson was, but bottom line is when marciano retired patterson had accomplished nothing to warrant a title shot at marciano.



had patterson stopped moore before rocky retired......then marciano prob would have fought patterson for then patterson would have proven himself




also silk, cus D amato said in 1956 that "patterson is a year away". so D amato had no intentions of throwing patterson in the ring with marciano until 1957. he wanted to wait till marciano showed signs of aging before he sent floyd in the ring with rocky



finally.......you say patterson kayoed moore easier. i disagree. moore won the first 4 rounds of the patterson fight on 2 judges scorecards. moore didnt even win 2 rounds out of 9 vs marciano.......which happened 1 1/2 year earlier when moore was in better shape.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

An inexperienced Patterson actually ko'd Moore quicker than Marciano did. Perhaps Moore would have beaten all the guys Rocky beat considering Moore was one of Marciano's most formidable opponnents and Patterson did not have much experience when he beat him.

i wouldnt call patterson inexperienced. he had incredible amounts of amatuer experience, had been boxing pro for 4 years, and had over 25 profights when he fought moore. thats not inexperienced.


if patterson was inexperienced when he fought moore.....what does that make witherspoon when he fought holmes?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Patterson was the top contender and its obvious that he would have merited a shot had Rocky carried on fighting.

patterson was a top contender when marciano retired in april 1956? please provide ur source. in fact, patterson wasnt even ranked in the top 10 heavyweights when marciano retired so how in gods name did patterson merit a shot?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

See now what you state is opinion...the FACT is this...Marciano never was knocked out and he faced some pretty big punhers...he was hit well by some pretty big punchers, so odds are...Liston would not KO Marciano. If Bert Whitehurt could take what Liston had to offer then I'm pretty certain Marciano would as well...but Patterson...well we saw what happened there...two consecutive first round knockouts by Liston...Marciano had just as hard a punch as Liston, if not better!

Its not my opinion that Marciano retired surely?.... unless he had some fights I dont know about!. Patterson was the top contender and its obvious that he would have merited a shot had Rocky carried on fighting.
I think Liston had far more power than Rocky, he used to ko people clean out... often early in fights, while Rocky was more a wear them down type fighter... his one punch power is overrated imo... aside from that Liston was a far superior technical boxer and would probably bash Rocky up with the jab... look at how well a shot Louis did against Rocky with the jab until he ran out of gas!...

silk,


the peak 1951-52 rocky marciano was a one punch kayo slugger. this marciano put guys lights out with 1-2 punches like walcott, layne, louis, mathews, and all his earlier victims.


before goldman changed marcianos style taking some of his punching power away.....marciano was a deadly one punch kayo artist


rocky was more of a wear em down type in 54-55, but the peak marciano was a one punch kayo slugger

[Cojimar 1945]

Patterson's only really impressive wins were against Jackson when he kayoed Moore. Moore had a vast advantage in terms of experience over Patterson and it seems highly impressive that Patterson could still beat him with little difficulty. In fact Patterson wasn't even knocked down.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Patterson's only really impressive wins were against Jackson when he kayoed Moore. Moore had a vast advantage in terms of experience over Patterson and it seems highly impressive that Patterson could still beat him with little difficulty. In fact Patterson wasn't even knocked down.

patterson lost the first 4 rounds. how is that not difficulty? moore had an off night too. moore was never given a rematch. patterson didnt beat moore until AFTER marciano(a known ruiner) demolished moore

[bill.lockhart]

silkov......marciano retired in april 1956.


please answer me this.........what did patterson do at heavyweight prior to april 1956 to clearly earn the right to challenge marciano? are u telling me marciano was afraid of a guy who eaked out a split decision over hurricane jackson? patterson was a 168lb just one year earlier and he was a non proven heavyweight when rocky retired. we found out after marciano retired just how good patterson was, but bottom line is when marciano retired patterson had accomplished nothing to warrant a title shot at marciano.



had patterson stopped moore before rocky retired......then marciano prob would have fought patterson for then patterson would have proven himself




also silk, cus D amato said in 1956 that "patterson is a year away". so D amato had no intentions of throwing patterson in the ring with marciano until 1957. he wanted to wait till marciano showed signs of aging before he sent floyd in the ring with rocky



finally.......you say patterson kayoed moore easier. i disagree. moore won the first 4 rounds of the patterson fight on 2 judges scorecards. moore didnt even win 2 rounds out of 9 vs marciano.......which happened 1 1/2 year earlier when moore was in better shape.

Brock is right. If Rocky had not retired in April 56, Jackson would have got a chance for sure. Valdes, may as well, that year. Patterson would not have been fighting Jackson until late fall, if at all, so how would he have been in a position to challenge Rocky. 1957 would have arrived with Patterson, Machen & Folley all knocking on the door. Moore, Jackson & Valdes would still be in the mix, as well. I think Floyd would have proved his superiority over them all if Rocky had delayed his retirement by a year. Since Floyd would not yet have been champ, D'amato would not have been in a position to ignore the IBC, & bouts against a prime Machen or Folley would likely have taken place, That, I would have liked to see.

[Jaclem]

....i just realized a short time ago that i am reading more abhout marciano on this forum than about any other fighter...and i'm even commenting on what i read! which for me is ridiculous. i didn't care much for marciano when he was active....i still rate him in the bottom half of heavyweight champions....(excluding the alphabet boys)....i didn't think he was interesting as a person or a fighter....can sum him up with just a few words....clumsy...great condition....courageous...perfectly managed (not talking about the financial aspects)...good but over rated puncher...extra good chin....stamina and strength made made him formidable only because of the era in which he fought....

...and here i am again...damn...and i've even got an idea for a thread on him myself....which i have been avoiding because he's on here way to much already.....and i still worry about brockton boy's academic studies...and i'm puzzled by all the others who ente ron this one too...we don't write about...oh..jack sharkey .....gotta quit...jkust stringing words together....

[HomicideHenry]

I was actually talking to Brocky not to long ago of the both of us writing a thread [which would be stickied later on] about Rocky Marciano, considering he is just about THE most talked about fighter in this forum, and all the Marciano talk can go in there.

[Cojimar 1945]

Patterson may have been behind but from the sound of things he wasn't beaten up or even knocked down which is impressive considering how many guys knocked Patterson down.

Moore showed great consistency following his loss to Marciano so Marciano clearly did not ruin him.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Patterson may have been behind but from the sound of things he wasn't beaten up or even knocked down which is impressive considering how many guys knocked Patterson down.

Moore showed great consistency following his loss to Marciano so Marciano clearly did not ruin him.

great consistency against who? after the marciano fight.......moore stopped taking on top heavyweight contenders like he did pre marciano fight. moore was consistent against B levle guys but moore wasnt taking on the top stars in the heavyweight division anymore like he did 1952-55

[JAHamilton77]

Marciano did fight Floyd Patterson in an unrecorded fight that took place in Brazil. It was called Pain in the Rain(forest).

[Aldo Pravisani]

Marciano did fight Floyd Patterson in an unrecorded fight that took place in Brazil. It was called Pain in the Rain(forest).

The Phantom defeated Rocky in a match fought in the proximity of the Skull Cave observed by the Bundar Pigmies. It appears that Marciano who had lost money in a poorly conceived business venture, wanted to "borrow" from the Phantom's treasure, but he always considered the loot as a loan that he was going to repay as soon as he could...Unfortunately for him Diana caught him in the act, and the Phantom had to....you know....stop him. They became friends once things were explained.

This fight became known as the "Original Rumble in the Jungle*"

*old jungle saying.

[Robinson]

I think he retired because he was burnt out and had done all that he
needed to do in the ring. He did have respect for Patterson that much
was clear.

I dont see him quitting because of Pattersons emergence.

[Jaclem]

..this fight that didn't happen is proof that god exists...because he answered patterson's nightly prayers that he wouldn't have to fight marciano.


iuh..when this thread first appeared i was in high school but i was wise beyoned my years...

['Rocket'Rigby]

"If I said I could beat him (Patterson), I'd be bragging. If I said he could beat me, I'd be lying!" - Rocky Marciano

Rocky did not quit, he didn't know how to.


Regards,

Rocket
______
Molon Labe!

[Robinson]

If he did fight Patterson, it would be a peak and in shape, fast
moving Floyd that a some what tired and ring worn Marciano
would have faced.

Both fighters seemed to have had alot of respect for one
another...


Personally... I think had they fought in 1956 Patterson wins.

[Goodnight, Irene]

If Marciano was past his best, it wasn't by too much. If it were 1959, I can see Patterson being too much, but Marciano's ring career was short, & he had relatively few fights for a man of his era.

He would've had too much for Patterson --- a fairly green Patterson, no less --- in 1956. Marciano wasn't far removed from his peak when he retired.

[Robinson]

Patterson MD.

[Crease]

Marciano suffered from 2 things:

1. Chronic back pain
2. his wife nagging him.

He said so himself...

When Marciano retired, Nino Valdes was the no 1 challenger, and Valdes didn't even want to fight him...

Patterson wasn't "next in line", so I don't see how Rocky avoided a fight against him...

Though the same can't be said for Clalzaghe....

If he retires, people will say he avoided Dawson... Because Chad is "next in line"...

[elmersalsa]

Well fact, Patterson was koed by Liston twice, who would probably have done a simular job to Marciano... Marcinao never fought anyone as good as Liston or Ali... and the main fact is that Marciano retired rather than fight Patterson... if Patterson was an easy fight why didnt Rocky take it??...

That the great Rocky Marciano NEVER fought anyone as good as Liston or Ali? \

I thought that the great Jersey Joe Walcott was pretty good if you ask me.