The British can't break through the barrier ... WHY ?

[Autobarn]

Pacman is looking for the biggest fighters out there, and unfortunately, many of the fighters in the lower divisions are very anonymous. This is part of the reason we see so many fighters getting left on the outside whilst the likes of Morales, Barrera, Pacman get all the exposure.

There's plenty of guys who haven't got a look in against Barrera or Morales either, it's not just Pacman who is guilty of that. Why was Barrera fighting washed up Tapia for instance?

I hated that phase in his career when everyone had Barrera as the "ppl's champ". IMO he conceded that title (won from beating Naz and Morales) by fighting Kelly & Tapia. In fact, that was the year I turned off from boxing. MAB fighting those guys & Hopkins fllowing up Tito with Carl Daniels - enough to make me sick.

Hopefully Guzman or Barrios will make some noise on Saturday. If Guzman coasts and wins a half hearted but easy decision ala Jauregei, there will be no demand. But if he looks sensational, or wins a war, who knows. If Barrios goes right through Guzman, I can see the demand for Pac-Barrios.

[Andy Mac]

Surely Terry is right when he says that p4p rankings are just a crock of shit. Like fight judging they are highly subjective. The criteria for arriving at the rankings are changed more than a whore's G string. Take PBF, his #1 spot can only be due to his weight jumping, as his resume under scrutiny can not be better than his cosest rivals. Only ever faced one undefeated fighter ( Corrales ) 2 attempts at the previously twice stopped Castillo, then the 3 muskateers Mitchell,Judah, and Gatti. Corley and Bruseles are not worth mentioning, but we are expected to accept on the word of predominantly American writers that these are all more noteworthy than say Cotto's opponents, or Wrights, Pacman's or others on the lists.

[Autobarn]

Surely Terry is right when he says that p4p rankings are just a crock of shit. Like fight judging they are highly subjective. The criteria for arriving at the rankings are changed more than a whore's G string. Take PBF, his #1 spot can only be due to his weight jumping, as his resume under scrutiny can not be better than his cosest rivals. Only ever faced one undefeated fighter ( Corrales ) 2 attempts at the previously twice stopped Castillo, then the 3 muskateers Mitchell,Judah, and Gatti. Corley and Bruseles are not worth mentioning, but we are expected to accept on the word of predominantly American writers that these are all more noteworthy than say Cotto's opponents, or Wrights, Pacman's or others on the lists.

The magazines should take a closer look at Lorenzo Parra. If he beats Roberto Vasquez this year, his 2003-present resume will piss on Mayweather's till it bubbles & melts away

[mattyp151]

Surely Terry is right when he says that p4p rankings are just a crock of shit. Like fight judging they are highly subjective. The criteria for arriving at the rankings are changed more than a whore's G string. Take PBF, his #1 spot can only be due to his weight jumping, as his resume under scrutiny can not be better than his cosest rivals. Only ever faced one undefeated fighter ( Corrales ) 2 attempts at the previously twice stopped Castillo, then the 3 muskateers Mitchell,Judah, and Gatti. Corley and Bruseles are not worth mentioning, but we are expected to accept on the word of predominantly American writers that these are all more noteworthy than say Cotto's opponents, or Wrights, Pacman's or others on the lists.

The magazines should take a closer look at Lorenzo Parra. If he beats Roberto Vasquez this year, his 2003-present resume will piss on Mayweather's till it bubbles & melts away

However, looking before 2003, it's an even bigger blowout in Mayweather's favor. People need to realize p4p isn't because you win 1 big fight. 1 win can be contributed to a stylistic clash which worked in your favor. Both Mayweather and Pac have both beaten all sorts of styles in their careers, I would hardly call Castillo Judah and Gatti anything similar.

I think the reason that Mayweather's resume is so shitty as of late is his lack of a steady title at 1 weight. He wins a belt, jumps, and it pretty much nixes the chance of a unification bout with another title holder, or vs a guy jumping up or down from another weight for a title shot. I think if he beats Baldo, he will line up Mosley and either Cotto or Margarito next year, pending if Margarito fights and beats Paul Williams and manages a top 10 name after that.

[Andy Mac]

Surely Terry is right when he says that p4p rankings are just a crock of shit. Like fight judging they are highly subjective. The criteria for arriving at the rankings are changed more than a whore's G string. Take PBF, his #1 spot can only be due to his weight jumping, as his resume under scrutiny can not be better than his cosest rivals. Only ever faced one undefeated fighter ( Corrales ) 2 attempts at the previously twice stopped Castillo, then the 3 muskateers Mitchell,Judah, and Gatti. Corley and Bruseles are not worth mentioning, but we are expected to accept on the word of predominantly American writers that these are all more noteworthy than say Cotto's opponents, or Wrights, Pacman's or others on the lists.

The magazines should take a closer look at Lorenzo Parra. If he beats Roberto Vasquez this year, his 2003-present resume will piss on Mayweather's till it bubbles & melts away

However, looking before 2003, it's an even bigger blowout in Mayweather's favor. People need to realize p4p isn't because you win 1 big fight. 1 win can be contributed to a stylistic clash which worked in your favor. Both Mayweather and Pac have both beaten all sorts of styles in their careers, I would hardly call Castillo Judah and Gatti anything similar.

I think the reason that Mayweather's resume is so shitty as of late is his lack of a steady title at 1 weight. He wins a belt, jumps, and it pretty much nixes the chance of a unification bout with another title holder, or vs a guy jumping up or down from another weight for a title shot. I think if he beats Baldo, he will line up Mosley and either Cotto or Margarito next year, pending if Margarito fights and beats Paul Williams and manages a top 10 name after that.

That is a good post by you. The question though is. Why doesn't Mayweather stay at one weight and unify? He is hardly a giant that suffers weight making problems. Is he in reality trying to take to the next level this ridiculous trend started to my knowledge by Leonard and Hearns, carried on by Oscar and RJJ, of winning frankly meaningless belts at whatever weights you can con people into believing as was the case with Leonard?

[Andy Mac]

Ok i realise Henry Armstrong and a few others held multi titles, but i believe that was through neccessity rather than bragging rights of being a multi-weight champion.

[Autobarn]

Surely Terry is right when he says that p4p rankings are just a crock of shit. Like fight judging they are highly subjective. The criteria for arriving at the rankings are changed more than a whore's G string. Take PBF, his #1 spot can only be due to his weight jumping, as his resume under scrutiny can not be better than his cosest rivals. Only ever faced one undefeated fighter ( Corrales ) 2 attempts at the previously twice stopped Castillo, then the 3 muskateers Mitchell,Judah, and Gatti. Corley and Bruseles are not worth mentioning, but we are expected to accept on the word of predominantly American writers that these are all more noteworthy than say Cotto's opponents, or Wrights, Pacman's or others on the lists.

The magazines should take a closer look at Lorenzo Parra. If he beats Roberto Vasquez this year, his 2003-present resume will piss on Mayweather's till it bubbles & melts away

However, looking before 2003, it's an even bigger blowout in Mayweather's favor. People need to realize p4p isn't because you win 1 big fight. 1 win can be contributed to a stylistic clash which worked in your favor. Both Mayweather and Pac have both beaten all sorts of styles in their careers, I would hardly call Castillo Judah and Gatti anything similar.

I think the reason that Mayweather's resume is so shitty as of late is his lack of a steady title at 1 weight. He wins a belt, jumps, and it pretty much nixes the chance of a unification bout with another title holder, or vs a guy jumping up or down from another weight for a title shot. I think if he beats Baldo, he will line up Mosley and either Cotto or Margarito next year, pending if Margarito fights and beats Paul Williams and manages a top 10 name after that.

in p4p rankings there's a fair emphasis on recent form. mayweather's pre 2003 gets him in the hall of fame.

but his post Castillo, well...he's not faced anyone remotely as good as JLC.

Look at Parra's body of work. He's only just arrived on the scene in 2003. Went to Puerto Rico & outboxed a superb boxer Eric Morel. I think Morel was undefeated. Then he defends his title FIVE TIMES on the road, where his opponetn s are more buoyed up and dangerous, including two wins over a very tough Sakata. Next, he faces the man who was probably the best junior fly in the world, Roberto Vasquez and if successful will surely be looking to unifications in a brilliant weight class.

In terms of skill, Parra looks every bit the boxer Mayweather is.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Pacquiao is getting way over hyped:

1. Beat MAB, when MAB underestimated him - great win
2. LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st
3. LOST to a past prime Morales
4. Beat Morales - Morales had just lost to Raheem and MAB. Pacman just got some very sloppy seconds of a past prime Morales

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

This little man is great but far from P4P NO1

[lvlarc]

Pacquiao is getting way over hyped:

1. Beat MAB, when MAB underestimated him - great win
2. LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st
3. LOST to a past prime Morales
4. Beat Morales - Morales had just lost to Raheem and MAB. Pacman just got some very sloppy seconds of a past prime Morales

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

This little man is great but far from P4P NO1

Make excuses for Barrera, then one could make excuses for Pacquiao's loss to Morales...

1. Pacquiao always wears Cleto Reyes gloves, he wore them to fight Barrera, Marquez, Ledwaba, Julio & Morales rematch then Larios. He was forced to wear the winning brand gloves for 1st Morales fight. His camp kicked up a big fuss about wearing the "Winning" gloves, which are heavily padded (the gloves Mayweather & Winky like to use)

LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st

Wrong. If it wasn't for Burt Clements error in scoring the first round 10-7 instead of 10-6, Pacquiao would of won the fight. Clements later confessed this but it was too late. Marquez is just lucky there was no 3 knock down rule.

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

No 1 dimensional fighter beats a legend Barrera in that fashion, he beat him pillar to post. PBF does not chew up any of those at 130, at 135 I thought Castillo beat him.

[mattyp151]

Pacquiao is getting way over hyped:

1. Beat MAB, when MAB underestimated him - great win
2. LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st
3. LOST to a past prime Morales
4. Beat Morales - Morales had just lost to Raheem and MAB. Pacman just got some very sloppy seconds of a past prime Morales

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

This little man is great but far from P4P NO1

Make excuses for Barrera, then one could make excuses for Pacquiao's loss to Morales...

1. Pacquiao always wears Cleto Reyes gloves, he wore them to fight Barrera, Marquez, Ledwaba, Julio & Morales rematch then Larios. He was forced to wear the winning brand gloves for 1st Morales fight. His camp kicked up a big fuss about wearing the "Winning" gloves, which are heavily padded (the gloves Mayweather & Winky like to use)

LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st

Wrong. If it wasn't for Burt Clements error in scoring the first round 10-7 instead of 10-6, Pacquiao would of won the fight. Clements later confessed this but it was too late. Marquez is just lucky there was no 3 knock down rule.

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

No 1 dimensional fighter beats a legend Barrera in that fashion, he beat him pillar to post. PBF does not chew up any of those at 130, at 135 I thought Castillo beat him.

Not to mention if Floyd stayed at 130, he would be killing himself to get there, he walks around at 154 recently.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Pacquiao is getting way over hyped:

1. Beat MAB, when MAB underestimated him - great win
2. LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st
3. LOST to a past prime Morales
4. Beat Morales - Morales had just lost to Raheem and MAB. Pacman just got some very sloppy seconds of a past prime Morales

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

This little man is great but far from P4P NO1

Make excuses for Barrera, then one could make excuses for Pacquiao's loss to Morales...

1. Pacquiao always wears Cleto Reyes gloves, he wore them to fight Barrera, Marquez, Ledwaba, Julio & Morales rematch then Larios. He was forced to wear the winning brand gloves for 1st Morales fight. His camp kicked up a big fuss about wearing the "Winning" gloves, which are heavily padded (the gloves Mayweather & Winky like to use)

LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st

Wrong. If it wasn't for Burt Clements error in scoring the first round 10-7 instead of 10-6, Pacquiao would of won the fight. Clements later confessed this but it was too late. Marquez is just lucky there was no 3 knock down rule.

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

No 1 dimensional fighter beats a legend Barrera in that fashion, he beat him pillar to post. PBF does not chew up any of those at 130, at 135 I thought Castillo beat him.

The gloves excuse is the biggest joke in boxing. No Pac, you just got your little head boxed off, and you would have done last time if Morales old legs didnt fail him

Did you also have junior Jones P4P No1 for beating the younger Barrera

And no it could be argued Marquez won 10 rounds in the Pacman fight. Pacman should have had a 10-6 in R1, he also should have 10 other rounds counted against him.

No doubt Pacmans next schooling is around the corner, I wonder if you'll all still be on the Pac P4P no1 train then

PS if Pacman is on your P4P no1 is Raheem P4P top5 for beating Morales in a clear decision? What about Freitas is be P4P top3, what about Corrales who beat Freitas? P4P top 2? What about Castillo who beat Corrales P4P top -1? And PBF who beat them all - P4P -1million?

BTW Judah was P4P as good as Morales

[jamesmcdonnell]

Pacquiao is getting way over hyped:

1. Beat MAB, when MAB underestimated him - great win
2. LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st
3. LOST to a past prime Morales
4. Beat Morales - Morales had just lost to Raheem and MAB. Pacman just got some very sloppy seconds of a past prime Morales

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

This little man is great but far from P4P NO1

Make excuses for Barrera, then one could make excuses for Pacquiao's loss to Morales...

1. Pacquiao always wears Cleto Reyes gloves, he wore them to fight Barrera, Marquez, Ledwaba, Julio & Morales rematch then Larios. He was forced to wear the winning brand gloves for 1st Morales fight. His camp kicked up a big fuss about wearing the "Winning" gloves, which are heavily padded (the gloves Mayweather & Winky like to use)

LOST to Marquez, never mind the scorecards, Marquez won nearly every round other than the 1st

Wrong. If it wasn't for Burt Clements error in scoring the first round 10-7 instead of 10-6, Pacquiao would of won the fight. Clements later confessed this but it was too late. Marquez is just lucky there was no 3 knock down rule.

Pacman is 1 dimensional and can be outboxed, if PBF had stayed at 130 he would of chewed up Pacman, Morales and MAB

No 1 dimensional fighter beats a legend Barrera in that fashion, he beat him pillar to post. PBF does not chew up any of those at 130, at 135 I thought Castillo beat him.

The gloves excuse is the biggest joke in boxing. No Pac, you just got your little head boxed off, and you would have done last time if Morales old legs didnt fail him

Did you also have junior Jones P4P No1 for beating the younger Barrera

And no it could be argued Marquez won 10 rounds in the Pacman fight. Pacman should have had a 10-6 in R1, he also should have 10 other rounds counted against him.

No doubt Pacmans next schooling is around the corner, I wonder if you'll all still be on the Pac P4P no1 train then

PS if Pacman is on your P4P no1 is Raheem P4P top5 for beating Morales in a clear decision? What about Freitas is be P4P top3, what about Corrales who beat Freitas? P4P top 2? What about Castillo who beat Corrales P4P top -1? And PBF who beat them all - P4P -1million?

BTW Judah was P4P as good as Morales

This is weak.....

The choice of gloves can have a big psychological effect on a fighter, anything like this can, why do you think some fighters insist on their preferred brand? It's as much to upset their opponent as anything.

Barrera was not considered a modern legend when he lost to Junior Jones, he was a long way from being the fighter he is regarded as now, so no, Junior Jones would not have been considered a P4P fighter.

Raheem would not be top dog P4P as outside of beating Morales, what else has he done of note? Pacman has a very impressive resume, even before he beat Barrera. It doesn't follow that one win over an elite fighter makes you elite, I thought people had learned their lesson with the Mosley - Forrest, Mayorga, Spinks, Judah lineage. Mosley was the only one of those fighters who ever deserved a P4P placing, you don't inherit your opponents wins by beating them, you just get the Kudos of beating them at THAT POINT IN TIME.

Judah was P4P as good as Morales? Based on what precisely. Getting smashed to fornicate by Tszyu, getting his arse whipped by Mayweather, losing to Spinks?

Aside from Barrera, Morales and Mayweather, what other fighter has a resume better than Pacmans?

Yes, he should have lost to Marquez, definetly, by 1 clear round, but so what if he got schooled by Marquez, styles make fights, and maybe Marquez just has the right style. Ezzard charles had the style to beat Archie Moore every time they met, does that mean Moore wasn't a P4P fighter?

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Make excuses for Barrera, then one could make excuses for Pacquiao's loss to Morales...

1. Pacquiao always wears Cleto Reyes gloves, he wore them to fight Barrera, Marquez, Ledwaba, Julio & Morales rematch then Larios. He was forced to wear the winning brand gloves for 1st Morales fight. His camp kicked up a big fuss about wearing the "Winning" gloves, which are heavily padded (the gloves Mayweather & Winky like to use)

Wrong. If it wasn't for Burt Clements error in scoring the first round 10-7 instead of 10-6, Pacquiao would of won the fight. Clements later confessed this but it was too late. Marquez is just lucky there was no 3 knock down rule.

No 1 dimensional fighter beats a legend Barrera in that fashion, he beat him pillar to post. PBF does not chew up any of those at 130, at 135 I thought Castillo beat him.

The gloves excuse is the biggest joke in boxing. No Pac, you just got your little head boxed off, and you would have done last time if Morales old legs didnt fail him

Did you also have junior Jones P4P No1 for beating the younger Barrera

And no it could be argued Marquez won 10 rounds in the Pacman fight. Pacman should have had a 10-6 in R1, he also should have 10 other rounds counted against him.

No doubt Pacmans next schooling is around the corner, I wonder if you'll all still be on the Pac P4P no1 train then

PS if Pacman is on your P4P no1 is Raheem P4P top5 for beating Morales in a clear decision? What about Freitas is be P4P top3, what about Corrales who beat Freitas? P4P top 2? What about Castillo who beat Corrales P4P top -1? And PBF who beat them all - P4P -1million?

BTW Judah was P4P as good as Morales

This is weak.....

The choice of gloves can have a big psychological effect on a fighter, anything like this can, why do you think some fighters insist on their preferred brand? It's as much to upset their opponent as anything.

Barrera was not considered a modern legend when he lost to Junior Jones, he was a long way from being the fighter he is regarded as now, so no, Junior Jones would not have been considered a P4P fighter.

Raheem would not be top dog P4P as outside of beating Morales, what else has he done of note? Pacman has a very impressive resume, even before he beat Barrera. It doesn't follow that one win over an elite fighter makes you elite, I thought people had learned their lesson with the Mosley - Forrest, Mayorga, Spinks, Judah lineage. Mosley was the only one of those fighters who ever deserved a P4P placing, you don't inherit your opponents wins by beating them, you just get the Kudos of beating them at THAT POINT IN TIME.

Judah was P4P as good as Morales? Based on what precisely. Getting smashed to smeg by Tszyu, getting his arse whipped by Mayweather, losing to Spinks?

Aside from Barrera, Morales and Mayweather, what other fighter has a resume better than Pacmans?

Yes, he should have lost to Marquez, definetly, by 1 clear round, but so what if he got schooled by Marquez, styles make fights, and maybe Marquez just has the right style. Ezzard charles had the style to beat Archie Moore every time they met, does that mean Moore wasn't a P4P fighter?

The point is Morrales and Barrera in their prime were not near P4P no1, and now they are obviously past their prime, beating both of them does not make you P4P no1.

Barerra may not have been as highly regarded when Junior Jones beat him, but he was younger, and a better offensive fighter back then. Pacmans making a big P4P name off fighting big names past their primes.

Raheem also schooled Juarez (and was robbed), who came close against Barrera. And again he beat Morales prior to Pacman fighting him, so if Raheem isn't P4P

Raheem beating Morales = Baldomir beating Judah = Pacmans last win is about as good as FMJs last win

I like Pacman hes very good, but hes not near P4P no1.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Pacman was already a two weight champ before he even faced Barrera, and he absolutely annihilated him.

If it was ONLY because Barrera took him lightly, how come Barrera wants no part of a rematch?

[lvlarc]

Ahem, at the time Pacquiao beat Barrera, MAB was a top 3 P4P'r.

How is that "not near P4P n1"?

Morales was also a top 10 P4P'r when he first fought Pacquiao.


It doesn't matter if you think MAB and Morales weren't in their primes, what matters is that they were still the best in their divisions & Manny beat them both.

PBF has never beat a top 5 P4P'r....Pacquiao has defeated 2 all time greats.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, exactly, it's easy to say 'past their primes' with hindsight.

How many people thought they were 'past their primes before they got smacked up by Pacman?

Barrera was a massive favourite to beat Pacman when they fought, and despite the loss to Raheem everyone made Morales was favourite to beat Pacman again.


Amazing that Morales is still only 30.

[mattyp151]

Ahem, at the time Pacquiao beat Barrera, MAB was a top 3 P4P'r.

How is that "not near P4P n1"?

Morales was also a top 10 P4P'r when he first fought Pacquiao.


It doesn't matter if you think MAB and Morales weren't in their primes, what matters is that they were still the best in their divisions & Manny beat them both.

PBF has never beat a top 5 P4P'r....Pacquiao has defeated 2 all time greats.

Castillo and Corrales at the time of the fights could definitely be in the top 5.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Ahem, at the time Pacquiao beat Barrera, MAB was a top 3 P4P'r.

How is that "not near P4P n1"?

Morales was also a top 10 P4P'r when he first fought Pacquiao.

It doesn't matter if you think MAB and Morales weren't in their primes, what matters is that they were still the best in their divisions & Manny beat them both.

PBF has never beat a top 5 P4P'r....Pacquiao has defeated 2 all time greats.

Was he top3 P4P though? RJJ/DLH/FMJ/BHOPS/Mosley/Tyszu were arguably all rated above MAB. And most people had MAB losing against Morales.

PBF has never beat a top 5 P4P'r - same could be said for Pacman. Castillo/Corrales/Judah/G Hernandez could all be said to be near top10 P4P.

What people are keen to forget is PBF completely dominated 130lbs with ease beating G HErnandez an ATG long time 130lb champ never beat at 130lbs who'd beat Azumah Nelson. Hernandez only loss came at 135 to much bigger Delahoya. He beat him at around the age of 21 with only 17 fights under his belt. He then beat Manfredy in 2 rounds, who was fresh off beating down Gatti. He then defended several time before fighting the other undefeated champ Corrales, this was billed as the new SRL-Heanrns, FMJ dominated with ease as we all know. He then defends 2/3 times more before jumping in with the king of 135 - Castillo, I had him beating Castillo twice, which in itself is a huge achievement. He then defends twice against 2 top10 contenders before going to 140 and fighting 2 top10 contenders at 140 picking up another WBC belt. So far at 147 hes beat 2 of Tyszus best opponents and is now going for the linear title.

What people also forget is FMJ unlike many fighters today is usually the smaller man - Corrales/Castillo/Gatti all had around 10-15lbs weight advantage over him. At 147 he is blown up and 3 divisions above his best weight and still dominating. If he wins a championship at 154 he will have covered a larger weight jump than Henry Armstrong. You could argue DLH did the same but FMJ never weight drained like DLH did.

[Andy Mac]

Ahem, at the time Pacquiao beat Barrera, MAB was a top 3 P4P'r.

How is that "not near P4P n1"?

Morales was also a top 10 P4P'r when he first fought Pacquiao.

It doesn't matter if you think MAB and Morales weren't in their primes, what matters is that they were still the best in their divisions & Manny beat them both.

PBF has never beat a top 5 P4P'r....Pacquiao has defeated 2 all time greats.

Was he top3 P4P though? RJJ/DLH/FMJ/BHOPS/Mosley/Tyszu were arguably all rated above MAB. And most people had MAB losing against Morales.

PBF has never beat a top 5 P4P'r - same could be said for Pacman. Castillo/Corrales/Judah/G Hernandez could all be said to be near top10 P4P.

What people are keen to forget is PBF completely dominated 130lbs with ease beating G HErnandez an ATG long time 130lb champ never beat at 130lbs who'd beat Azumah Nelson. Hernandez only loss came at 135 to much bigger Delahoya. He beat him at around the age of 21 with only 17 fights under his belt. He then beat Manfredy in 2 rounds, who was fresh off beating down Gatti. He then defended several time before fighting the other undefeated champ Corrales, this was billed as the new SRL-Heanrns, FMJ dominated with ease as we all know. He then defends 2/3 times more before jumping in with the king of 135 - Castillo, I had him beating Castillo twice, which in itself is a huge achievement. He then defends twice against 2 top10 contenders before going to 140 and fighting 2 top10 contenders at 140 picking up another WBC belt. So far at 147 hes beat 2 of Tyszus best opponents and is now going for the linear title.

What people also forget is FMJ unlike many fighters today is usually the smaller man - Corrales/Castillo/Gatti all had around 10-15lbs weight advantage over him. At 147 he is blown up and 3 divisions above his best weight and still dominating. If he wins a championship at 154 he will have covered a larger weight jump than Henry Armstrong. You could argue DLH did the same but FMJ never weight drained like DLH did.

Which all goes to prove the total worthlessness of p4p ratings if all of the above were ranked higher than MAB. As asked previously,,,who is primarily responsible for stating them? US boxing writers. Many on here will say that PBF deserves his ranking because he has been fighting in title fights since 98. Barrera was fighting for titles since 94, and moving up the weights. It is these sort of inconsistencies that make a mockery of p4p claims as a serious yardstick by which to measure a fighters worth.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, P4P listings are largely pointless.