Middleweight champions (yep, here they are Jaclem)

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bump

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spam, i mean bump!

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hmm bump hmm hmm hmm bump, shibby baa bump doooooo, yeah yeah!

[Jaclem]

flex..congratulations on such a comprehensive list. This take up a couple of pages in most record books. You did especially well on the confusing Hostak-Zale and the other title claims , and also on the Robinson Pender Tiger etc era.

It's funny..we think the title disputes started with the alphabet boys, but back when the New York Boxing Commission had so much power, there were a lot of differences between them and the NBA. plus,Ring magazine i those days was so influential that Nat Fleischer's impramatur (sp)...and that belt he gave out was accepted by most of the boxing fans. In those days the only ratings the papers printed were usually those of Ring magazine.

Added note...I had occasional contact with Frank Klaus' son many years ago and he had some good stories about that era.

[Broncano]

Just off the top of my head I’m going to recite from memory the entire linage of the middleweight title.

Tom Chandler- American who defeated Dooney Harris in Sna Fransico by KO 23 on April 3 1867

The first american to obtain recognition as middleweight champion was Tom Chandler who defeated Dooney Harris in San Francisco by a knockout in the 23rd round on April 13 1867 An illustrated History of Boxing 2001 ed p. 216

Jack Dempsey- Dempsey fought George Fulljames for the title Donovan had left vacant. They fought on July 30, 1884 and Fulljames was battered into submission in the twenty second round

The men met on July 20, 1884. They fought with heavy driving gloves and Fulljames was battered into submission in the twenty-second round An illustrated History of Boxing 2001 ed p. 217


This one is a gem because it is the first case of dyslexic plagiarism I have ever seen, and it actually worked!:

Tiger Flowers- Desposed of Harry Greb in 15 rounds on Febuary 26, 1926 in New York.

Greb was deposed on February 26, 1926, by Tiger Flowers (...) in New York An illustrated History of Boxing 2001 ed p. 228

Tony Zale- A confusing Tourney still progressed before the sucessor to Steele was announced. Apostoli stopped Freedy Steele, who had lifted the title forom Risko in an overweight match. When Steele refused to face Aposoli in a rematchm the NY commission ruled the crown vacant.

The confusion continued after Apostoli stopped Freddy Steele, who had lifted the title from Risko in an overweight match; and when Steele refused to face Apostoli in a bout for the crown the New York commission ruled the latter World Champion. An illustrated History of Boxing 2001 ed p. 232-233

Rodrigo Valdez- This pretender became champ when the corrupt World Boxing Council stripped Monzon for not defending against his punk ass.

The fact that the book that you have blatantly plagiarized doesn't say anything about Valdez doesn't make him a punk

Hugo Corro- Personally don’t care to say anything about him.

I think you meant to say, "The Illustrated History of Boxing doesn't say anything about him"

[$ bill]

Wow! What a memory. This old man's memory pales in comparision to yours. Now I will have to line off a few names from my list. Since you brought up Paul Pender. Will have to remove some names that were recognized by various states. (Not regarded as lineal champions). Have to remove all the Colored Middleweight Champions, also. Glad you corrected my ineptness. Of course, I will accept this list as factual and all inclusive. Awesome. Maybe you could give me the benefit of your knowledge and give me a list of all (from 1867) the champions recognized by various states (including the ones around 1910 time period) and claimants that were also partially recognized. I'll even accept just the ones recognized by the NYSAC. Don't even need to include California. Massachussetts, Ohio or any other state. Can exclude all the non-US recognitions. Maybe a chronological data base could be started for the weight divisions. All inclusive (if possible-with comments). Could start with the Paperweight division.

[Tantum]

Just off the top of my head I’m going to recite from memory the entire linage of the middleweight title.

Tom Chandler- American who defeated Dooney Harris in Sna Fransico by KO 23 on April 3 1867

The first american to obtain recognition as middleweight champion was Tom Chandler who defeated Dooney Harris in San Francisco by a knockout in the 23rd round on April 13 1867 An illustrated History of Boxing 2001 ed p. 216

Jack Dempsey- Dempsey fought George Fulljames for the title Donovan had left vacant. They fought on July 30, 1884 and Fulljames was battered into submission in the twenty second round

The men met on July 20, 1884. They fought with heavy driving gloves and Fulljames was battered into submission in the twenty-second round An illustrated History of Boxing 2001 ed p. 217


This one is a gem because it is the first case of dyslexic plagiarism I have ever seen, and it actually worked!:

Tiger Flowers- Desposed of Harry Greb in 15 rounds on Febuary 26, 1926 in New York.

Greb was deposed on February 26, 1926, by Tiger Flowers (...) in New York An illustrated History of Boxing 2001 ed p. 228

Tony Zale- A confusing Tourney still progressed before the sucessor to Steele was announced. Apostoli stopped Freedy Steele, who had lifted the title forom Risko in an overweight match. When Steele refused to face Aposoli in a rematchm the NY commission ruled the crown vacant.

The confusion continued after Apostoli stopped Freddy Steele, who had lifted the title from Risko in an overweight match; and when Steele refused to face Apostoli in a bout for the crown the New York commission ruled the latter World Champion. An illustrated History of Boxing 2001 ed p. 232-233

Rodrigo Valdez- This pretender became champ when the corrupt World Boxing Council stripped Monzon for not defending against his punk ass.

The fact that the book that you have blatantly plagiarized doesn't say anything about Valdez doesn't make him a punk

Hugo Corro- Personally don’t care to say anything about him.

I think you meant to say, "The Illustrated History of Boxing doesn't say anything about him"

BEST POST EVER.

[Jaclem]

I just did a casual reading of flex's list and responded accordingly. I have the reference books mentioned here along with many of others. When I write for publication they are what I refer to, not posts in this forum

..and..so what? I thought flex did a decent job with his list, and I wouldn't call anything of this nature plagerism as facts cannoet be copyrighted. I didn't cover the Fitzsimmons/Corbett personallly (a surprise to some of you, I'm sure) but if I write that Fitz won with a body punch it is not plagerism...in fact I'm not even sure I spell the word right. It is just something I've read. (and have seen on the film)

If nothing else, flex got some people checking out his information and making corrections where needed. I thought that was one of the things this forum was about.

[Broncano]

I agree with you in that everyone else is benefiting from this exchange.

Nevertheless, claiming that something came from the "top of your head" and then using the exact word for word is plagiarism.
Even worse, the motive behind all of this is, as usual, to make himself look good and knowledgeable and demean other posters.
I have trouble with the argument that says "so what if he lies as long as we are learning something".

And you have the luxury to enjoy this post because no one called you names. I'm sorry sir, but if my name is called out by a baboon like this, Im going to respond. I certainly think you would too...

[Jaclem]

I took the "off the top of my head" as a joke, and thought it was clearly so, especially as flex used my name in the thread, because I made a similar joke earlier on the heavyweight one.

Broncano.....I don't know what problems you've had with flex so you may be justified in your anger with him and I have no comment about it.

I still think the list is helpful, though not carved in granite.

Back to flex....he and I have had at in the past and maybe will again...but....that has nothing to do with this particular thread as far as I am concerned.

[Broncano]

Just to b*tch slap you I created a middleweight list to make your feeble accusation on this thread look like what is is, feeble.

Anyway if your going to incert a hyper link on that one I suggest you learn how to create your own website maybe it would be
FLEX'S_JEALOUS_B*TCH_.COM

see u around

I suppose he was joking there, too.

I seriously doubt that flex shares your wonderful sense of humor Jaclem.
When he wants to use sarcasm he puts an emoticon at the end of a phrase such as:"nice try, bro".

As far as my arguments with flex I assure you they are no different from the ones you've had with him in the past (He even said once that you were my alter-ego, although I'm not very sure that he quite exactly knows what that word means). Thank you for not commenting on them, I'll keep that in mind next time someone unjustifiably calls you names or makes uncalled for referrences to your political allegiances.

[Broncano]

Just off the top of my head I’m going to recite from memory the entire linage of the middleweight title.

Mark Twin Sullivan- I know this guy was next but don't know the details off the top of my head.

Freddy Steele- Took the title from Risko but forgot what year. (would have to look that up)

Now I feel so naive with so many "off the top of my head" and "would have to look that up" jokes, I took it seriously while the rest of the forum must've been cracking up. So eloquent and witty at the same time.