Tyson

[Controversial]

Thinking about it every HW fighter in history including journeymen (apart from Fury) would've sparked Ngannou in one round. Ali probably the quickest as he was the greatest so maybe with his first or second punch. If Ngannou landed nothing would happen to these guys, they were made of different stuff to Fury.

It's bizarre that you assume other fighters wouldn't train properly and weren't focused, just because you think Fury wasn't.

Seriously, which heavyweight from the 90's would Ngannou beat? Or least deck and take to a split decision?

Sure plenty would take him serious, I was specifically talking about Ali though in my earlier posts because Ali, contrary to what you say, didn’t always look great, often carried fighters in pro fights or held back when opponents were hurt and rarely knocked anyone out with one punch. So I just don’t see Ali taking Ngannou as deadly serious as you think he would. He would do rounds against him, maybe even go the distance. Anyone weighing 20 stone who knows how to punch as Ngannou does having trained in combat sports for many years at the top level, can hurt anyone. It’s irrelevant whether he boxed before or not. Plenty of great amateurs do nothing in the pro game, several ATG fighters had zero or very little amateur careers. For arguments sake say Ali boxed Ngannou over 10 rounds and won every round, would you then say Ali was crap for going 10 rounds against a debutant? Because that result is more likely than Ali knocking in him out in my opinion.

[keithmoonhangover]

Thinking about it every HW fighter in history including journeymen (apart from Fury) would've sparked Ngannou in one round. Ali probably the quickest as he was the greatest so maybe with his first or second punch. If Ngannou landed nothing would happen to these guys, they were made of different stuff to Fury.

It's bizarre that you assume other fighters wouldn't train properly and weren't focused, just because you think Fury wasn't.

Seriously, which heavyweight from the 90's would Ngannou beat? Or least deck and take to a split decision?

Sure plenty would take him serious, I was specifically talking about Ali though in my earlier posts because Ali, contrary to what you say, didn’t always look great, often carried fighters in pro fights or held back when opponents were hurt and rarely knocked anyone out with one punch. So I just don’t see Ali taking Ngannou as deadly serious as you think he would. He would do rounds against him, maybe even go the distance. Anyone weighing 20 stone who knows how to punch as Ngannou does having trained in combat sports for many years at the top level, can hurt anyone. It’s irrelevant whether he boxed before or not. Plenty of great amateurs do nothing in the pro game, several ATG fighters had zero or very little amateur careers. For arguments sake say Ali boxed Ngannou over 10 rounds and won every round, would you then say Ali was crap for going 10 rounds against a debutant? Because that result is more likely than Ali knocking in him out in my opinion.

If Ali won every round, which he clearly would, it would not be a crap (your words not mine) performance, far from it actually. He certainly wouldn't get dropped on his way to split decision win

How do you think prime Bobby Crabtree would get on against Ngannou?

[Controversial]

It's bizarre that you assume other fighters wouldn't train properly and weren't focused, just because you think Fury wasn't.

Seriously, which heavyweight from the 90's would Ngannou beat? Or least deck and take to a split decision?

Sure plenty would take him serious, I was specifically talking about Ali though in my earlier posts because Ali, contrary to what you say, didn’t always look great, often carried fighters in pro fights or held back when opponents were hurt and rarely knocked anyone out with one punch. So I just don’t see Ali taking Ngannou as deadly serious as you think he would. He would do rounds against him, maybe even go the distance. Anyone weighing 20 stone who knows how to punch as Ngannou does having trained in combat sports for many years at the top level, can hurt anyone. It’s irrelevant whether he boxed before or not. Plenty of great amateurs do nothing in the pro game, several ATG fighters had zero or very little amateur careers. For arguments sake say Ali boxed Ngannou over 10 rounds and won every round, would you then say Ali was crap for going 10 rounds against a debutant? Because that result is more likely than Ali knocking in him out in my opinion.

If Ali won every round, which he clearly would, it would not be a crap (your words not mine) performance, far from it actually. He certainly wouldn't get dropped on his way to split decision win

How do you think prime Bobby Crabtree would get on against Ngannou?

My original point was that Fury going the distance with Ngannou doesn’t mean Fury is poor, rubbish or whatever negative words you want to use. It has to be taken into context for what it was, a cash grab and with no one giving Ngannou a chance in hell, you go into a fight thinking that then it’s no surprise he struggled. If Fury won every round would you say that was a good performance then? You can’t have it both ways. Who knows how Ngannou with Crabtree but I’m sure if he landed on him it’ll hurt just as much as any other big puncher hitting you would.

[keithmoonhangover]

Sure plenty would take him serious, I was specifically talking about Ali though in my earlier posts because Ali, contrary to what you say, didn’t always look great, often carried fighters in pro fights or held back when opponents were hurt and rarely knocked anyone out with one punch. So I just don’t see Ali taking Ngannou as deadly serious as you think he would. He would do rounds against him, maybe even go the distance. Anyone weighing 20 stone who knows how to punch as Ngannou does having trained in combat sports for many years at the top level, can hurt anyone. It’s irrelevant whether he boxed before or not. Plenty of great amateurs do nothing in the pro game, several ATG fighters had zero or very little amateur careers. For arguments sake say Ali boxed Ngannou over 10 rounds and won every round, would you then say Ali was crap for going 10 rounds against a debutant? Because that result is more likely than Ali knocking in him out in my opinion.

If Ali won every round, which he clearly would, it would not be a crap (your words not mine) performance, far from it actually. He certainly wouldn't get dropped on his way to split decision win

How do you think prime Bobby Crabtree would get on against Ngannou?

My original point was that Fury going the distance with Ngannou doesn’t mean Fury is poor, rubbish or whatever negative words you want to use. It has to be taken into context for what it was, a cash grab and with no one giving Ngannou a chance in hell, you go into a fight thinking that then it’s no surprise he struggled. If Fury won every round would you say that was a good performance then? You can’t have it both ways. Who knows how Ngannou with Crabtree but I’m sure if he landed on him it’ll hurt just as much as any other big puncher hitting you would.

Yes, if Fury had won every round it would have been a good performance and I have no issues with it. That's not what happened and Fury came had a full training camp and came in at the same weight as the Wilder fight.

[Controversial]

If Ali won every round, which he clearly would, it would not be a crap (your words not mine) performance, far from it actually. He certainly wouldn't get dropped on his way to split decision win

How do you think prime Bobby Crabtree would get on against Ngannou?

My original point was that Fury going the distance with Ngannou doesn’t mean Fury is poor, rubbish or whatever negative words you want to use. It has to be taken into context for what it was, a cash grab and with no one giving Ngannou a chance in hell, you go into a fight thinking that then it’s no surprise he struggled. If Fury won every round would you say that was a good performance then? You can’t have it both ways. Who knows how Ngannou with Crabtree but I’m sure if he landed on him it’ll hurt just as much as any other big puncher hitting you would.

Yes, if Fury had won every round it would have been a good performance and I have no issues with it. That's not what happened and Fury came had a full training camp and came in at the same weight as the Wilder fight.

But I thought Ngannou was not a boxer, he was a novice with no amateur background, does that not matter anymore?

[keithmoonhangover]

My original point was that Fury going the distance with Ngannou doesn’t mean Fury is poor, rubbish or whatever negative words you want to use. It has to be taken into context for what it was, a cash grab and with no one giving Ngannou a chance in hell, you go into a fight thinking that then it’s no surprise he struggled. If Fury won every round would you say that was a good performance then? You can’t have it both ways. Who knows how Ngannou with Crabtree but I’m sure if he landed on him it’ll hurt just as much as any other big puncher hitting you would.

Yes, if Fury had won every round it would have been a good performance and I have no issues with it. That's not what happened and Fury came had a full training camp and came in at the same weight as the Wilder fight.

But I thought Ngannou was not a boxer, he was a novice with no amateur background, does that not matter anymore?

Yes, it does matter, but if a boxer wins every round in a dominant performance, I wouldn't criticize him for it. The fact is, Fury performed terribly and only land an average of 7 punches per round.

[Controversial]

Yes, if Fury had won every round it would have been a good performance and I have no issues with it. That's not what happened and Fury came had a full training camp and came in at the same weight as the Wilder fight.

But I thought Ngannou was not a boxer, he was a novice with no amateur background, does that not matter anymore?

Yes, it does matter, but if a boxer wins every round in a dominant performance, I wouldn't criticize him for it. The fact is, Fury performed terribly and only land an average of 7 punches per round.

Yes he did perform badly for all sorts of reasons. And if Ali put in a sub par performance in the same situation then he’d get criticised too but it wouldn’t be a reflection on his entire career.

[Ambling Alp II]

Douglas fought a great fight against Tyson. You should watch it some time. He would have beat Klitschko, Fury, Once a Year, Joshua etc.

Holyfield had lot of very good-great performances. Holyfield did not fight a good fight against Moorer. This doesn't mean the era is weak. In every era, a top fighter had a bad fight. Fury, Klitschko etc. had tons of crappy fights.

I can name many great hw fights from the 1990s. Can't name one great hw fight in the last 20 years.

In the real world Douglas lost to Jesse Ferguson and quit against Tony Tucker and his only quality win outside Tyson was Trevor Berbick. Hypotheticals don't carry the same weight as actual results. A guy who lost to Jesse Ferguson becoming lineal champ is not a great look for a supposed golden age. Douglas, Bowe, Moorer, old Foreman, and Rahman all becoming lineal champs in just over ten years seems like it requires a lot of explaining and excuse making.
The era would look a lot better if Tyson only lost to Holyfield and Holyfield only lost to Lewis and Lewis retired undefeated without the losses to Rahman and McCall.

douglas also beat Greg Page and Oliver McCall. not legends, but quality fighters.
Yes douglas lost to Ferguson and Tucker. He was not conistent. sometimes he fought great, sometimes not. Actually Tucker was a pretty good fighter. Ferguson wasn't great, but better than ross Purrity.
He fought great against Tyson.
You should watch the Tyson.

One thing you don't understand is upsets. You seem to think an upset automatically makes an entire era bad. It doesn't.

An upset loss should impact how highly the individual fighter was. It should be counted against him. It should be weighed against his big wins when rating him.

However, upsets don't make an era bad.

Whenever your guy loses, you have a crybaby excuse. However, you don't do that with the guys that you grew up fighting.

Did it ever occur to you that it was odd that the sport of boxing magically got so much better the day that you became a fan? The odds of that happening are astronomical.

[Ambling Alp II]

But I thought Ngannou was not a boxer, he was a novice with no amateur background, does that not matter anymore?

Yes, it does matter, but if a boxer wins every round in a dominant performance, I wouldn't criticize him for it. The fact is, Fury performed terribly and only land an average of 7 punches per round.

Yes he did perform badly for all sorts of reasons. And if Ali put in a sub par performance in the same situation then he’d get criticised too but it wouldn’t be a reflection on his entire career.

With Ali, it gets balanced with his whole. He had so many big wins, so many great performances that the bad performance against Spinks doesn't mean much.
Fury doesn't have much to fall back on. His big win was Wilder. (No he should not get credit for barely beat an ancient Klitschko).

[Cojimar 1946]

The thing is, you forgive Klitschko for all of his losses, making excuses to fit your argument. You also make excuses for Fury and his performance against a non-boxer. You are also hyper-critical of all things Mike Tyson and dismiss any reasoning. Fury beat Klitschko by landing an average of eight punches per round, that is a fact. If you class that as his peak, then you're setting the bar very low.

Fury beat the non-boxer despite being well past it and badly out of shape. Given the stage in his career it seems odd people would think its relevant. It would be like focusing on Ali-Spinks and how bad Ali looked against a 7 fight novice. No 90s heavyweight fought Ngannou so theres no basis for comparison but I expect if he landed he could drop them.

Klitschko has bad losses but was on top much longer than Tyson, has more than twice as many title defenses and beat more top contenders. That seems like enough to put him ahead all time.

Well, if I may. The difference between the Leon Spinks who fought Ali and the Ngannou that fought Fury, is.... drum roll please.... Leon Spinks was a boxer. In fact, he was Olympic gold medalist at...... yes, you've guessed it.... boxing.

I don't think Ngannous relative lack of boxing skills would be an issue against certain fighters. Certainly I'd favor him over some guys like Peter mcneely or butterbean. I think his strength power and athleticism would be able to overcome the skill gap. Maybe he could beat the Bowe that fought Billy Zumbrum

[Controversial]

There'e been plenty of very average HWs skill wise that have done well. In the HW division size, weight and strength can overcome a lot, you don't get it so much in any other divisions as the weight limits control that to a large extent. Someone the size and strength of Ngannou is capable of hurting anyone regardless of his lack of amateur boxing fights, he's still been sparring, training and fighting at the top level in MMA for many years so it's not like he's a complete novice at hitting people or being hit. If he was a MW then boxing ability, skill and conditioning comes into more but at HW there are plenty of big unconditioned, fat fighters that have done ok or caused upsets so no reason why an fit in-shape Ngannou couldn't.

[keithmoonhangover]

There'e been plenty of very average HWs skill wise that have done well. In the HW division size, weight and strength can overcome a lot, you don't get it so much in any other divisions as the weight limits control that to a large extent. Someone the size and strength of Ngannou is capable of hurting anyone regardless of his lack of amateur boxing fights, he's still been sparring, training and fighting at the top level in MMA for many years so it's not like he's a complete novice at hitting people or being hit. If he was a MW then boxing ability, skill and conditioning comes into more but at HW there are plenty of big unconditioned, fat fighters that have done ok or caused upsets so no reason why an fit in-shape Ngannou couldn't.

Sparring for striking in preparation for an MMA fight versus a boxing match involves significant differences in technique, strategy, and overall focus due to the distinct nature of each sport. Here are the main differences:

1. Striking Variety and Focus
Boxing: Sparring is entirely focused on punches, with emphasis on hand speed, footwork, and head movement. Boxers use a variety of punches (jab, cross, hook, uppercut) and defensive techniques like slipping, bobbing, and weaving.
MMA: Sparring includes not only punches but also kicks, elbows, and knees. Fighters need to account for the full range of striking options, including high, low, and middle kicks, as well as dealing with clinch work and elbows from close range. There’s a broader focus on defending against different strikes and changing stances.
2. Stance and Movement
Boxing: The stance is more narrow, focusing on being light on the feet to allow quick lateral movement and positioning for punches. Head movement and footwork are used to evade punches, and fighters often move in and out of range.
MMA: The stance is wider and lower to accommodate not only striking but also the threat of takedowns, kicks, and clinch attempts. Movement in MMA sparring involves more consideration of distance management to avoid leg kicks or takedowns.
3. Range and Distance Management
Boxing: The range is almost always close to mid-range, focusing on closing the distance to land punches or creating angles for combinations. The range stays consistent since there are no kicks or grappling threats.
MMA: Range management is more dynamic, requiring fighters to consider both striking and grappling. Fighters must be wary of longer-range kicks and keep the distance to avoid clinch entries or takedown attempts. MMA sparring involves more switching between close, medium, and long-range exchanges.
4. Defense
Boxing: Defense is primarily based on blocking, parrying, slipping, and weaving to avoid punches. The focus is on head movement and shoulder rolls.
MMA: Defense includes head movement and blocking, but fighters also need to check kicks with their legs, defend against knees and elbows in the clinch, and sprawl to defend takedowns. The hands may not always be held as high due to the need to defend takedowns.
5. Clinch Work
Boxing: Clinching is limited, and it is used primarily to tie up an opponent and reset positions. Referees break clinches quickly.
MMA: Clinch work is a major part of sparring. Fighters use the clinch to land knees and elbows, set up trips and takedowns, or create distance for strikes. Sparring may involve long sequences in the clinch.
6. Pacing and Conditioning
Boxing: The pacing is usually more sustained over a longer period, with fewer interruptions compared to MMA. Boxers must maintain a high level of endurance and intensity for the duration of multiple rounds of pure striking.
MMA: Sparring has a different rhythm due to the blend of disciplines. Fighters often explode in short, intense bursts to capitalize on openings or avoid takedowns. The cardio is more varied as fighters switch between striking and grappling ranges.
7. Gloves and Equipment
Boxing: Boxers spar with larger gloves (usually 14–16 oz for training), which are designed to protect the hands and reduce the impact of punches on opponents. These gloves affect how punches are thrown and blocked.
MMA: MMA sparring gloves are much smaller (4–6 oz), and this changes the striking dynamic. Punches penetrate defenses more easily, and there’s a higher risk of injury. Fighters also use shin guards and sometimes headgear due to the inclusion of kicks and elbows.
8. Strategy and Game Planning
Boxing: Strategy focuses on outboxing the opponent with combinations, head movement, and footwork. Sparring sessions mimic the patterns and rhythms of boxing matches to fine-tune these elements.
MMA: Strategy is far more complex, as fighters must incorporate striking into a broader game plan that includes grappling and submissions. Sparring often involves scenarios where fighters transition between striking, clinching, and ground exchanges.
9. Sparring Partners
Boxing: Sparring partners are usually chosen based on their boxing style (e.g., aggressive, counter-puncher) to simulate a particular opponent's strengths.
MMA: Sparring partners come with a range of skills (kickboxers, Muay Thai specialists, wrestlers) to prepare the fighter for a more diverse set of challenges, both on the feet and on the ground.
10. Rules and Techniques to Avoid
Boxing: The focus is only on clean punches above the waist, and sparring reflects this rule set.
MMA: Sparring has many more elements, but fighters must be careful about using full force with elbows, knees, and head kicks, as these can be more damaging in training.
In summary, while both boxing and MMA sparring involve striking, MMA sparring is much more varied and complex due to the incorporation of kicks, takedowns, and grappling, requiring a wider stance, different defensive strategies, and more awareness of the full-body striking and transitions to the ground. Boxing sparring, on the other hand, is more focused and refined, with detailed attention to hand strikes and specific defensive movements.

[Controversial]

There'e been plenty of very average HWs skill wise that have done well. In the HW division size, weight and strength can overcome a lot, you don't get it so much in any other divisions as the weight limits control that to a large extent. Someone the size and strength of Ngannou is capable of hurting anyone regardless of his lack of amateur boxing fights, he's still been sparring, training and fighting at the top level in MMA for many years so it's not like he's a complete novice at hitting people or being hit. If he was a MW then boxing ability, skill and conditioning comes into more but at HW there are plenty of big unconditioned, fat fighters that have done ok or caused upsets so no reason why an fit in-shape Ngannou couldn't.

Sparring for striking in preparation for an MMA fight versus a boxing match involves significant differences in technique, strategy, and overall focus due to the distinct nature of each sport. Here are the main differences:

1. Striking Variety and Focus
Boxing: Sparring is entirely focused on punches, with emphasis on hand speed, footwork, and head movement. Boxers use a variety of punches (jab, cross, hook, uppercut) and defensive techniques like slipping, bobbing, and weaving.
MMA: Sparring includes not only punches but also kicks, elbows, and knees. Fighters need to account for the full range of striking options, including high, low, and middle kicks, as well as dealing with clinch work and elbows from close range. There’s a broader focus on defending against different strikes and changing stances.
2. Stance and Movement
Boxing: The stance is more narrow, focusing on being light on the feet to allow quick lateral movement and positioning for punches. Head movement and footwork are used to evade punches, and fighters often move in and out of range.
MMA: The stance is wider and lower to accommodate not only striking but also the threat of takedowns, kicks, and clinch attempts. Movement in MMA sparring involves more consideration of distance management to avoid leg kicks or takedowns.
3. Range and Distance Management
Boxing: The range is almost always close to mid-range, focusing on closing the distance to land punches or creating angles for combinations. The range stays consistent since there are no kicks or grappling threats.
MMA: Range management is more dynamic, requiring fighters to consider both striking and grappling. Fighters must be wary of longer-range kicks and keep the distance to avoid clinch entries or takedown attempts. MMA sparring involves more switching between close, medium, and long-range exchanges.
4. Defense
Boxing: Defense is primarily based on blocking, parrying, slipping, and weaving to avoid punches. The focus is on head movement and shoulder rolls.
MMA: Defense includes head movement and blocking, but fighters also need to check kicks with their legs, defend against knees and elbows in the clinch, and sprawl to defend takedowns. The hands may not always be held as high due to the need to defend takedowns.
5. Clinch Work
Boxing: Clinching is limited, and it is used primarily to tie up an opponent and reset positions. Referees break clinches quickly.
MMA: Clinch work is a major part of sparring. Fighters use the clinch to land knees and elbows, set up trips and takedowns, or create distance for strikes. Sparring may involve long sequences in the clinch.
6. Pacing and Conditioning
Boxing: The pacing is usually more sustained over a longer period, with fewer interruptions compared to MMA. Boxers must maintain a high level of endurance and intensity for the duration of multiple rounds of pure striking.
MMA: Sparring has a different rhythm due to the blend of disciplines. Fighters often explode in short, intense bursts to capitalize on openings or avoid takedowns. The cardio is more varied as fighters switch between striking and grappling ranges.
7. Gloves and Equipment
Boxing: Boxers spar with larger gloves (usually 14–16 oz for training), which are designed to protect the hands and reduce the impact of punches on opponents. These gloves affect how punches are thrown and blocked.
MMA: MMA sparring gloves are much smaller (4–6 oz), and this changes the striking dynamic. Punches penetrate defenses more easily, and there’s a higher risk of injury. Fighters also use shin guards and sometimes headgear due to the inclusion of kicks and elbows.
8. Strategy and Game Planning
Boxing: Strategy focuses on outboxing the opponent with combinations, head movement, and footwork. Sparring sessions mimic the patterns and rhythms of boxing matches to fine-tune these elements.
MMA: Strategy is far more complex, as fighters must incorporate striking into a broader game plan that includes grappling and submissions. Sparring often involves scenarios where fighters transition between striking, clinching, and ground exchanges.
9. Sparring Partners
Boxing: Sparring partners are usually chosen based on their boxing style (e.g., aggressive, counter-puncher) to simulate a particular opponent's strengths.
MMA: Sparring partners come with a range of skills (kickboxers, Muay Thai specialists, wrestlers) to prepare the fighter for a more diverse set of challenges, both on the feet and on the ground.
10. Rules and Techniques to Avoid
Boxing: The focus is only on clean punches above the waist, and sparring reflects this rule set.
MMA: Sparring has many more elements, but fighters must be careful about using full force with elbows, knees, and head kicks, as these can be more damaging in training.
In summary, while both boxing and MMA sparring involve striking, MMA sparring is much more varied and complex due to the incorporation of kicks, takedowns, and grappling, requiring a wider stance, different defensive strategies, and more awareness of the full-body striking and transitions to the ground. Boxing sparring, on the other hand, is more focused and refined, with detailed attention to hand strikes and specific defensive movements.

That would make sense if every boxer punched the same, stood the same, threw punches at the same angles etc. In the real world and not text book world it’s nothing like that. Ngannou knows how to punch, how it feels to be punched and how to get into shape, he wasn’t a YouTuber who had never had a fight in his life before. It’s not a huge leap to learn to box and as explained at HW you don’t always need a lot of skill to do well, sometimes size and strength make the difference.

[keithmoonhangover]

There'e been plenty of very average HWs skill wise that have done well. In the HW division size, weight and strength can overcome a lot, you don't get it so much in any other divisions as the weight limits control that to a large extent. Someone the size and strength of Ngannou is capable of hurting anyone regardless of his lack of amateur boxing fights, he's still been sparring, training and fighting at the top level in MMA for many years so it's not like he's a complete novice at hitting people or being hit. If he was a MW then boxing ability, skill and conditioning comes into more but at HW there are plenty of big unconditioned, fat fighters that have done ok or caused upsets so no reason why an fit in-shape Ngannou couldn't.

Sparring for striking in preparation for an MMA fight versus a boxing match involves significant differences in technique, strategy, and overall focus due to the distinct nature of each sport. Here are the main differences:

1. Striking Variety and Focus
Boxing: Sparring is entirely focused on punches, with emphasis on hand speed, footwork, and head movement. Boxers use a variety of punches (jab, cross, hook, uppercut) and defensive techniques like slipping, bobbing, and weaving.
MMA: Sparring includes not only punches but also kicks, elbows, and knees. Fighters need to account for the full range of striking options, including high, low, and middle kicks, as well as dealing with clinch work and elbows from close range. There’s a broader focus on defending against different strikes and changing stances.
2. Stance and Movement
Boxing: The stance is more narrow, focusing on being light on the feet to allow quick lateral movement and positioning for punches. Head movement and footwork are used to evade punches, and fighters often move in and out of range.
MMA: The stance is wider and lower to accommodate not only striking but also the threat of takedowns, kicks, and clinch attempts. Movement in MMA sparring involves more consideration of distance management to avoid leg kicks or takedowns.
3. Range and Distance Management
Boxing: The range is almost always close to mid-range, focusing on closing the distance to land punches or creating angles for combinations. The range stays consistent since there are no kicks or grappling threats.
MMA: Range management is more dynamic, requiring fighters to consider both striking and grappling. Fighters must be wary of longer-range kicks and keep the distance to avoid clinch entries or takedown attempts. MMA sparring involves more switching between close, medium, and long-range exchanges.
4. Defense
Boxing: Defense is primarily based on blocking, parrying, slipping, and weaving to avoid punches. The focus is on head movement and shoulder rolls.
MMA: Defense includes head movement and blocking, but fighters also need to check kicks with their legs, defend against knees and elbows in the clinch, and sprawl to defend takedowns. The hands may not always be held as high due to the need to defend takedowns.
5. Clinch Work
Boxing: Clinching is limited, and it is used primarily to tie up an opponent and reset positions. Referees break clinches quickly.
MMA: Clinch work is a major part of sparring. Fighters use the clinch to land knees and elbows, set up trips and takedowns, or create distance for strikes. Sparring may involve long sequences in the clinch.
6. Pacing and Conditioning
Boxing: The pacing is usually more sustained over a longer period, with fewer interruptions compared to MMA. Boxers must maintain a high level of endurance and intensity for the duration of multiple rounds of pure striking.
MMA: Sparring has a different rhythm due to the blend of disciplines. Fighters often explode in short, intense bursts to capitalize on openings or avoid takedowns. The cardio is more varied as fighters switch between striking and grappling ranges.
7. Gloves and Equipment
Boxing: Boxers spar with larger gloves (usually 14–16 oz for training), which are designed to protect the hands and reduce the impact of punches on opponents. These gloves affect how punches are thrown and blocked.
MMA: MMA sparring gloves are much smaller (4–6 oz), and this changes the striking dynamic. Punches penetrate defenses more easily, and there’s a higher risk of injury. Fighters also use shin guards and sometimes headgear due to the inclusion of kicks and elbows.
8. Strategy and Game Planning
Boxing: Strategy focuses on outboxing the opponent with combinations, head movement, and footwork. Sparring sessions mimic the patterns and rhythms of boxing matches to fine-tune these elements.
MMA: Strategy is far more complex, as fighters must incorporate striking into a broader game plan that includes grappling and submissions. Sparring often involves scenarios where fighters transition between striking, clinching, and ground exchanges.
9. Sparring Partners
Boxing: Sparring partners are usually chosen based on their boxing style (e.g., aggressive, counter-puncher) to simulate a particular opponent's strengths.
MMA: Sparring partners come with a range of skills (kickboxers, Muay Thai specialists, wrestlers) to prepare the fighter for a more diverse set of challenges, both on the feet and on the ground.
10. Rules and Techniques to Avoid
Boxing: The focus is only on clean punches above the waist, and sparring reflects this rule set.
MMA: Sparring has many more elements, but fighters must be careful about using full force with elbows, knees, and head kicks, as these can be more damaging in training.
In summary, while both boxing and MMA sparring involve striking, MMA sparring is much more varied and complex due to the incorporation of kicks, takedowns, and grappling, requiring a wider stance, different defensive strategies, and more awareness of the full-body striking and transitions to the ground. Boxing sparring, on the other hand, is more focused and refined, with detailed attention to hand strikes and specific defensive movements.

That would make sense if every boxer punched the same, stood the same, threw punches at the same angles etc. In the real world and not text book world it’s nothing like that. More point is Ngannou knows how to punch, how it feels to be punched and how to get into shape. It’s not a huge leap to learn to box and as explained at HW you don’t always need a lot of skill to do well.

He prepared his whole career for guys who could punch him kick him, or take him down. That gives him different positioning, balance, anticipation and thoughts. Whereas a boxer prepares for one thing, punches. If you can't see the difference, there really is no hope for you.

[Controversial]

Sparring for striking in preparation for an MMA fight versus a boxing match involves significant differences in technique, strategy, and overall focus due to the distinct nature of each sport. Here are the main differences:

1. Striking Variety and Focus
Boxing: Sparring is entirely focused on punches, with emphasis on hand speed, footwork, and head movement. Boxers use a variety of punches (jab, cross, hook, uppercut) and defensive techniques like slipping, bobbing, and weaving.
MMA: Sparring includes not only punches but also kicks, elbows, and knees. Fighters need to account for the full range of striking options, including high, low, and middle kicks, as well as dealing with clinch work and elbows from close range. There’s a broader focus on defending against different strikes and changing stances.
2. Stance and Movement
Boxing: The stance is more narrow, focusing on being light on the feet to allow quick lateral movement and positioning for punches. Head movement and footwork are used to evade punches, and fighters often move in and out of range.
MMA: The stance is wider and lower to accommodate not only striking but also the threat of takedowns, kicks, and clinch attempts. Movement in MMA sparring involves more consideration of distance management to avoid leg kicks or takedowns.
3. Range and Distance Management
Boxing: The range is almost always close to mid-range, focusing on closing the distance to land punches or creating angles for combinations. The range stays consistent since there are no kicks or grappling threats.
MMA: Range management is more dynamic, requiring fighters to consider both striking and grappling. Fighters must be wary of longer-range kicks and keep the distance to avoid clinch entries or takedown attempts. MMA sparring involves more switching between close, medium, and long-range exchanges.
4. Defense
Boxing: Defense is primarily based on blocking, parrying, slipping, and weaving to avoid punches. The focus is on head movement and shoulder rolls.
MMA: Defense includes head movement and blocking, but fighters also need to check kicks with their legs, defend against knees and elbows in the clinch, and sprawl to defend takedowns. The hands may not always be held as high due to the need to defend takedowns.
5. Clinch Work
Boxing: Clinching is limited, and it is used primarily to tie up an opponent and reset positions. Referees break clinches quickly.
MMA: Clinch work is a major part of sparring. Fighters use the clinch to land knees and elbows, set up trips and takedowns, or create distance for strikes. Sparring may involve long sequences in the clinch.
6. Pacing and Conditioning
Boxing: The pacing is usually more sustained over a longer period, with fewer interruptions compared to MMA. Boxers must maintain a high level of endurance and intensity for the duration of multiple rounds of pure striking.
MMA: Sparring has a different rhythm due to the blend of disciplines. Fighters often explode in short, intense bursts to capitalize on openings or avoid takedowns. The cardio is more varied as fighters switch between striking and grappling ranges.
7. Gloves and Equipment
Boxing: Boxers spar with larger gloves (usually 14–16 oz for training), which are designed to protect the hands and reduce the impact of punches on opponents. These gloves affect how punches are thrown and blocked.
MMA: MMA sparring gloves are much smaller (4–6 oz), and this changes the striking dynamic. Punches penetrate defenses more easily, and there’s a higher risk of injury. Fighters also use shin guards and sometimes headgear due to the inclusion of kicks and elbows.
8. Strategy and Game Planning
Boxing: Strategy focuses on outboxing the opponent with combinations, head movement, and footwork. Sparring sessions mimic the patterns and rhythms of boxing matches to fine-tune these elements.
MMA: Strategy is far more complex, as fighters must incorporate striking into a broader game plan that includes grappling and submissions. Sparring often involves scenarios where fighters transition between striking, clinching, and ground exchanges.
9. Sparring Partners
Boxing: Sparring partners are usually chosen based on their boxing style (e.g., aggressive, counter-puncher) to simulate a particular opponent's strengths.
MMA: Sparring partners come with a range of skills (kickboxers, Muay Thai specialists, wrestlers) to prepare the fighter for a more diverse set of challenges, both on the feet and on the ground.
10. Rules and Techniques to Avoid
Boxing: The focus is only on clean punches above the waist, and sparring reflects this rule set.
MMA: Sparring has many more elements, but fighters must be careful about using full force with elbows, knees, and head kicks, as these can be more damaging in training.
In summary, while both boxing and MMA sparring involve striking, MMA sparring is much more varied and complex due to the incorporation of kicks, takedowns, and grappling, requiring a wider stance, different defensive strategies, and more awareness of the full-body striking and transitions to the ground. Boxing sparring, on the other hand, is more focused and refined, with detailed attention to hand strikes and specific defensive movements.

That would make sense if every boxer punched the same, stood the same, threw punches at the same angles etc. In the real world and not text book world it’s nothing like that. More point is Ngannou knows how to punch, how it feels to be punched and how to get into shape. It’s not a huge leap to learn to box and as explained at HW you don’t always need a lot of skill to do well.

He prepared his whole career for guys who could punch him kick him, or take him down. That gives him different positioning, balance, anticipation and thoughts. Whereas a boxer prepares for one thing, punches. If you can't see the difference, there really is no hope for you.

Boxing isn’t some sort of mystical art form that only a few people can learn. Some people are naturally talented, some are quick learners, some take to it like a duck to waters, others don’t. There have been plenty of very successful amateurs who flopped in the pro ranks. There are some great pros who never boxed in the amateurs or only had a few bouts. To say it’s impossible for someone to be good at both is ridiculous, in fact lots of boxers had martial art backgrounds.

[keithmoonhangover]

That would make sense if every boxer punched the same, stood the same, threw punches at the same angles etc. In the real world and not text book world it’s nothing like that. More point is Ngannou knows how to punch, how it feels to be punched and how to get into shape. It’s not a huge leap to learn to box and as explained at HW you don’t always need a lot of skill to do well.

He prepared his whole career for guys who could punch him kick him, or take him down. That gives him different positioning, balance, anticipation and thoughts. Whereas a boxer prepares for one thing, punches. If you can't see the difference, there really is no hope for you.

in fact lots of boxers had martial art backgrounds.

Yes, but they didn't turn pro against an undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. They built their career steadily. Ngannou jumped straight into a fight against one of the best in the division. The fact that he was competitive proves how poor Fury is.

[Controversial]

He prepared his whole career for guys who could punch him kick him, or take him down. That gives him different positioning, balance, anticipation and thoughts. Whereas a boxer prepares for one thing, punches. If you can't see the difference, there really is no hope for you.

in fact lots of boxers had martial art backgrounds.

Yes, but they didn't turn pro against an undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. They built their career steadily. Ngannou jumped straight into a fight against one of the best in the division. The fact that he was competitive proves how poor Fury is.

Using your logic then Usyk is poor too as Fury lost a close decision to him, in reality Usyk should’ve knocked him out in a round or two.

[keithmoonhangover]

in fact lots of boxers had martial art backgrounds.

Yes, but they didn't turn pro against an undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. They built their career steadily. Ngannou jumped straight into a fight against one of the best in the division. The fact that he was competitive proves how poor Fury is.

Using your logic then Usyk is poor too as Fury lost a close decision to him, in reality Usyk should’ve knocked him out in a round or two.

Usyk did well against a MUCH bigger man. Fury performed better than against Ngannou, but making excuses for his performance against the kick boxer is daft.

[Controversial]

Yes, but they didn't turn pro against an undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. They built their career steadily. Ngannou jumped straight into a fight against one of the best in the division. The fact that he was competitive proves how poor Fury is.

Using your logic then Usyk is poor too as Fury lost a close decision to him, in reality Usyk should’ve knocked him out in a round or two.

Usyk did well against a MUCH bigger man. Fury performed better than against Ngannou, but making excuses for his performance against the kick boxer is daft.

Exactly he performed better, that’s all I’ve been trying to say, you can’t base his career on his fight with Ngannou. You’ve gone from slating Ngannou to saying if Ali beat him on points that’ll be a good result to then saying he can’t fight as he isn’t a trained fighter and doesn’t stand correctly, make you mind up.

[keithmoonhangover]

Using your logic then Usyk is poor too as Fury lost a close decision to him, in reality Usyk should’ve knocked him out in a round or two.

Usyk did well against a MUCH bigger man. Fury performed better than against Ngannou, but making excuses for his performance against the kick boxer is daft.

Exactly he performed better, that’s all I’ve been trying to say, you can’t base his career on his fight with Ngannou. You’ve gone from slating Ngannou to saying if Ali beat him on points that’ll be a good result to then saying he can’t fight as he isn’t a trained fighter and doesn’t stand correctly, make you mind up.

My mind is made up. Fury's performance against Ngannou was lousy and it has effected my view of his career. That's what results do. When Mike Tyson lost to Buster it effected my view of his career. The difference is Buster Douglas was an established heavyweight contender, Ngannou was a debutant.

[Controversial]

Usyk did well against a MUCH bigger man. Fury performed better than against Ngannou, but making excuses for his performance against the kick boxer is daft.

Exactly he performed better, that’s all I’ve been trying to say, you can’t base his career on his fight with Ngannou. You’ve gone from slating Ngannou to saying if Ali beat him on points that’ll be a good result to then saying he can’t fight as he isn’t a trained fighter and doesn’t stand correctly, make you mind up.

My mind is made up. Fury's performance against Ngannou was lousy and it has effected my view of his career. That's what results do. When Mike Tyson lost to Buster it effected my view of his career. The difference is Buster Douglas was an established heavyweight contender, Ngannou was a debutant.

Well yes results often make you change your opinion but at the end of the day Fury didn’t lose, it was a lousy performance but as you acknowledged he performed better when it mattered which suggests it was more of a bad day at the office or a combination of that and bad prep which is what I’ve said all along. I’m still of the opinion Ngannou wouldn’t have been a walkover for some fighters, debutant or not, and I wouldn’t fall off my seat if he knocked some down or even stopped them if he landed flush so we have to agree to disagree on that.

[keithmoonhangover]

Exactly he performed better, that’s all I’ve been trying to say, you can’t base his career on his fight with Ngannou. You’ve gone from slating Ngannou to saying if Ali beat him on points that’ll be a good result to then saying he can’t fight as he isn’t a trained fighter and doesn’t stand correctly, make you mind up.

My mind is made up. Fury's performance against Ngannou was lousy and it has effected my view of his career. That's what results do. When Mike Tyson lost to Buster it effected my view of his career. The difference is Buster Douglas was an established heavyweight contender, Ngannou was a debutant.

Well yes results often make you change your opinion but at the end of the day Fury didn’t lose, it was a lousy performance but as you acknowledged he performed better when it mattered which suggests it was more of a bad day at the office or a combination of that and bad prep which is what I’ve said all along. I’m still of the opinion Ngannou wouldn’t have been a walkover for some fighters, debutant or not, and I wouldn’t fall off my seat if he knocked some down or even stopped them if he landed flush so we have to agree to disagree on that.

A bad day at the office, bad prep etc. All just excuses.

[Controversial]

My mind is made up. Fury's performance against Ngannou was lousy and it has effected my view of his career. That's what results do. When Mike Tyson lost to Buster it effected my view of his career. The difference is Buster Douglas was an established heavyweight contender, Ngannou was a debutant.

Well yes results often make you change your opinion but at the end of the day Fury didn’t lose, it was a lousy performance but as you acknowledged he performed better when it mattered which suggests it was more of a bad day at the office or a combination of that and bad prep which is what I’ve said all along. I’m still of the opinion Ngannou wouldn’t have been a walkover for some fighters, debutant or not, and I wouldn’t fall off my seat if he knocked some down or even stopped them if he landed flush so we have to agree to disagree on that.

A bad day at the office, bad prep etc. All just excuses.

You are showing basic knowledge of the sport if you think every fighter performs their best in every fight, plenty of examples where that doesn’t happen.

[keithmoonhangover]

Well yes results often make you change your opinion but at the end of the day Fury didn’t lose, it was a lousy performance but as you acknowledged he performed better when it mattered which suggests it was more of a bad day at the office or a combination of that and bad prep which is what I’ve said all along. I’m still of the opinion Ngannou wouldn’t have been a walkover for some fighters, debutant or not, and I wouldn’t fall off my seat if he knocked some down or even stopped them if he landed flush so we have to agree to disagree on that.

A bad day at the office, bad prep etc. All just excuses.

You are showing basic knowledge of the sport if you think every fighter performs their best in every fight, plenty of examples where that doesn’t happen.

You are showing basic knowledge or reading. I have never once said every fighter performs their best in every fight. I didn't say that because they don't. However, some boxers and fans make excuses for a poor performance, You're making an assumption that Tyson didn't prepare properly, even though the man himself said he did.

[Controversial]

A bad day at the office, bad prep etc. All just excuses.

You are showing basic knowledge of the sport if you think every fighter performs their best in every fight, plenty of examples where that doesn’t happen.

You are showing basic knowledge or reading. I have never once said every fighter performs their best in every fight. I didn't say that because they don't. However, some boxers and fans make excuses for a poor performance, You're making an assumption that Tyson didn't prepare properly, even though the man himself said he did.

Ok he was in tip top condition, prepared as if it were a title fight against the top contender and still struggled. So does that make Ngannou really good or Usyk bad? I’ve said all along Fury was crap but I realise boxing isn’t black and white. You were the one who made a big thing of Ngannou being a novice but when pressed said if Ali out pointed him it’ll be a good result, when you previously said Crabtree would have knocked him out.