Frank Bruno's poor record

[cfang]

Watched the actually pretty bad documentary about bruno/lewis/eubank and Benn. It deliberately left out whole fights that didn't fit with the narrative, Still, I looked up Bruno's record and what amazed me is how poor Bruno's career actually was. He was the most protected fighter of his era. I mean all credit to his people for looking after him but during his entire career he fought a handful of ten tenners only.

Smith koed by wasn't in the top ten then
Witherspoon - brutally stopped by
Tyson - stopped by twice
Lewis - stopped by

Two other fighters who were top ten he fought his whole career, Coetzee who came over for the pay day and mccall who had a lot of issues and he sneaked past, The rest of his opponents were absolute bums. compare his record to AJ for example, let alone lewis. Really protected fighter.

Very interesting too about lewis calling bruno an uncle tom. It seems Bruno has been upset about that for 30 years, Awful thing to say but maybe the truth hurts a bit, Bruno dressing up as a women in panto, playing man Friday in an advert, Bruno was expecting lewis to apologise, he didn't. This struck me as a true champions mentality vs not so much. All he said was, didn't expect someone to bear a grudge for 30 years over a comment just designed to wind him up. V interesting stuff. Views?

[keithmoonhangover]

Watched the actually pretty bad documentary about bruno/lewis/eubank and Benn. It deliberately left out whole fights that didn't fit with the narrative, Still, I looked up Bruno's record and what amazed me is how poor Bruno's career actually was. He was the most protected fighter of his era. I mean all credit to his people for looking after him but during his entire career he fought a handful of ten tenners only.

Smith koed by wasn't in the top ten then
Witherspoon - brutally stopped by
Tyson - stopped by twice
Lewis - stopped by

Two other fighters who were top ten he fought his whole career, Coetzee who came over for the pay day and mccall who had a lot of issues and he sneaked past, The rest of his opponents were absolute bums. compare his record to AJ for example, let alone lewis. Really protected fighter.

Very interesting too about lewis calling bruno an uncle tom. It seems Bruno has been upset about that for 30 years, Awful thing to say but maybe the truth hurts a bit, Bruno dressing up as a women in panto, playing man Friday in an advert, Bruno was expecting lewis to apologise, he didn't. This struck me as a true champions mentality vs not so much. All he said was, didn't expect someone to bear a grudge for 30 years over a comment just designed to wind him up. V interesting stuff. Views?

Bruno only lost to guys whom at some point, worea WBC or WBA belt with World Champion written on it. While guys like Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer lost to Michael Bentt and Jesse Ferguson.

Gerrie Coetzee and Oliver McCall were both excellent wins.

[Expug]

I don’t really see him fighting bums. 45 fights only two under 500 when he fought them and one guy at 500. A few journeymen on his record, but bums ? Not seeing it. Lotta those guys I’ve seen fight. And seen Frank in the gym. Very talented fighter. Couldn’t get past Tyson but, certainly world class.

[Ambling Alp II]

Agreed. Certainly below Tyson and Lewis. Had his ups and downs. Just like Smith, Witherspoon, McCall, Page, Dokes, Coetzee, Thomas etc.

[cfang]

I don’t really see him fighting bums. 45 fights only two under 500 when he fought them and one guy at 500. A few journeymen on his record, but bums ? Not seeing it. Lotta those guys I’ve seen fight. And seen Frank in the gym. Very talented fighter. Couldn’t get past Tyson but, certainly world class.

Perhaps bums was a bit strong lol he was very protected tho. They wouldn’t risk him against anyone around the top ten unless it was for a belt.

[Ezzard]

A solid contender in any era.

Once hurt he would sort of fall to pieces. And struggled in the second half of a fight. The McCall win was great for him. But in an era of fat men he always came into the ring in great shape. Always a true professional.

Lacked a little guile and subtlety. But a solid puncher for sure.

[bennie]

Bruno was a man who made serious money for Duff and Lawless and the rest of the Cartel so they were never going to test him too severely between cracks at a world title. Why lose millions just to pander to Harry Mullan of Boxing News, who routinely trashed Bruno's opposition. Yes, they took a risk with Bonecrusher Smith at Wembley back in 1984 but it was was an educated risk against a man of only 14 fights ("Are you happy now?" said Lawless to Mullan at ringside). Otherwise, Bruno did a solid job on the night and he looked sharp against Coetzee, who lacked ambition but that wasn't Bruno's problem. I thought Frank looked particularly sharp against Pierre Coetzer in 1992, and he gave Lewis all kinds of trouble up to the finish of their fight a year later. Bruno probably lacked natural fighting instincts but he could whack and was always in great shape. When he learned how to hang on, he made it all the way to the top.

[Controversial]

Bruno was a man who made serious money for Duff and Lawless and the rest of the Cartel so they were never going to test him too severely between cracks at a world title. Why lose millions just to pander to Harry Mullan of Boxing News, who routinely trashed Bruno's opposition. Yes, they took a risk with Bonecrusher Smith at Wembley back in 1984 but it was was an educated risk against a man of only 14 fights ("Are you happy now?" said Lawless to Mullan at ringside). Otherwise, Bruno did a solid job on the night and he looked sharp against Coetzee, who lacked ambition but that wasn't Bruno's problem. I thought Frank looked particularly sharp against Pierre Coetzer in 1992, and he gave Lewis all kinds of trouble up to the finish of their fight a year later. Bruno probably lacked natural fighting instincts but he could whack and was always in great shape. When he learned how to hang on, he made it all the way to the top.

Yes I agree with this, 4 cracks at a world title not bad going for someone who invariably lost when it mattered. He almost came unstuck against Cummings, lucky the bell rang when it did. The wins tended to be against guys past their best or second tier opponents rather than anyone considered the best of the division. He done well against Lewis, think he was ahead on the cards when stopped if I remember correctly. The Bugner fight was pure padding of his record, Bugner just wanted a pay day. I went to the McCall fight and expected Bruno to do better against Tyson in the rematch but he fell apart, he put up a better fight the first time around. I always felt watching Bruno it could all go wrong at any time and it wouldn’t come as a big surprise so was happy he won a title in the end.

[Noxy]

Chuck Gardner - we really didn't need to see that.

[cfang]

Absolutely!

Wasn’t he due to fight Tommy Morrison but the whole card fell through. Very dangerous fight for frank that I thought at the time.

[Ambling Alp II]

Not trying to say Bruno was some legend or something, but some people are selling him short here.

Look at the 5 losses- 2 to Tyson and one to Lewis. Obviously, he was not in their class.
Outside of that, he has the losses to Smith and Witherspoon. Both good, but not great fighters. both fights that Bruno was winning in the late rounds. It's not like he got smoked here.

Coetzee was in the Top 10 for their fight and it was not for a world title.
Obviously, Bugner was well his best, but he had looked good in his last 3 fights against fringe contenders.
The McCall win was a nice win.

Not sure why he is being singled out as having a 'poor record' among the WBS champions of the 1980s and 1990s.

Outside of the greats, (Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield etc.) no one had a much better record than him.

[NazNaci1]

As I said, previously, he was, back then, upper 'C' level, probably B level.

You had some fierce talents around that time, so logically, he was never going to be top of the tree.

Sure he crushed quite a few cans but he some decent wins and, fights with a couple of genuine ATG's. Getting in the ring with 'Iron' Mike twice, takes some balls.

Then you look around this era, and he would definitely hold his own at the top end. That speaks more about the very poor standard of this era, rather than him having a poor record (which I do not agree with. Not amazing, but certainly not poor).

[Ezzard]

He was a big deal in Britain. And a nice guy. Always gave his best. But he was protected somewhat.

[Jaguar]

He was a big deal in Britain. And a nice guy. Always gave his best. But he was protected somewhat.

I agree with all of that apart from Bruno being a nice guy. That was the image promoted by the media but I don't necessarily think he was a nice guy. But then few boxers are.

[Ezzard]

He was a big deal in Britain. And a nice guy. Always gave his best. But he was protected somewhat.

I agree with all of that apart from Bruno being a nice guy. That was the image promoted by the media but I don't necessarily think he was a nice guy. But then few boxers are.

You're probably right. He was nice to me the one time I met him.

He was, of course, a pal of Jimmy Savile.

[Controversial]

He was a big deal in Britain. And a nice guy. Always gave his best. But he was protected somewhat.

I agree with all of that apart from Bruno being a nice guy. That was the image promoted by the media but I don't necessarily think he was a nice guy. But then few boxers are.

You're probably right. He was nice to me the one time I met him.

He was, of course, a pal of Jimmy Savile.

That’s a bit harsh, Savile was a huge celebrity and mixed with royalty, politicians and was photographed with just about everyone at some point. Savile didn’t have close friends, he just used people for his own gain. I think Bruno was a bit of a handful as a teen which is why he was sent to a school for problem children.

[keithmoonhangover]

He was a big deal in Britain. And a nice guy. Always gave his best. But he was protected somewhat.

I agree with all of that apart from Bruno being a nice guy. That was the image promoted by the media but I don't necessarily think he was a nice guy. But then few boxers are.

You're probably right. He was nice to me the one time I met him.

He was, of course, a pal of Jimmy Savile.

I met Bruno a couple of time, he was very nice to me also. He spent a fair bit of time in Sunderland in the late 90's and I didn't hear a single bad word said about him by anybody.

[Ezzard]

I agree with all of that apart from Bruno being a nice guy. That was the image promoted by the media but I don't necessarily think he was a nice guy. But then few boxers are.

You're probably right. He was nice to me the one time I met him.

He was, of course, a pal of Jimmy Savile.

That’s a bit harsh, Savile was a huge celebrity and mixed with royalty, politicians and was photographed with just about everyone at some point. Savile didn’t have close friends, he just used people for his own gain. I think Bruno was a bit of a handful as a teen which is why he was sent to a school for problem children.

He was a main face at the funeral. That's all. I am sure Frank was not invovled. Well, I doubt it.

[Ezzard]

I agree with all of that apart from Bruno being a nice guy. That was the image promoted by the media but I don't necessarily think he was a nice guy. But then few boxers are.

You're probably right. He was nice to me the one time I met him.

He was, of course, a pal of Jimmy Savile.

I met Bruno a couple of time, he was very nice to me also. He spent a fair bit of time in Sunderland in the late 90's and I didn't hear a single bad word said about him by anybody.

I know he had his demons but he didn't seem like a bad egg.

[Expug]

He was a big deal in Britain. And a nice guy. Always gave his best. But he was protected somewhat.

I was hitting the speed bag at the us arena boxing gym before a fight in 1983. Suddenly right after the round ends, I hear a voice behind me “ excuse me , can I borrow your speed bag when you’re finished? It was Bruno. He was training at the gym for his fight at davinci manor in Chicago. I was struck by how friendly this fella was. I think he knocked out Mike Jameson in that fight. I believe mcguigan fought on that card also. Long time ago but I remember Frank well. He tuned up Quick Tillis in a sparring session that day although i barely remember that part. A buddy of mine was there that day and reminded me of that recently.

[Controversial]

Obviously, Bugner was well his best, but he had looked good in his last 3 fights against fringe contenders.

I wouldn't read anything into that fight, Bugner was 37 and having his 74th fight, he wasn't there to win he just wanted a big pay day. Hearn as pretty much admitted that, he also said Bugner hardly trained and told him he'd go down as soon as he was hit. He retired straight afterwards but came back 8 years later.

[Jaguar]

I agree with all of that apart from Bruno being a nice guy. That was the image promoted by the media but I don't necessarily think he was a nice guy. But then few boxers are.

You're probably right. He was nice to me the one time I met him.

He was, of course, a pal of Jimmy Savile.

That’s a bit harsh, Savile was a huge celebrity and mixed with royalty, politicians and was photographed with just about everyone at some point. Savile didn’t have close friends, he just used people for his own gain. I think Bruno was a bit of a handful as a teen which is why he was sent to a school for problem children.

The problem was that he was violent and out of control.

Leaving that aside, I remember seeing Bruno on some celebrity sleepover programme and he came over terribly. Moody and aggressive. Having said that, people above are saying they met Bruno and he was alright with them, so fair enough.

[Bodyshot3]

Frank was overly managed/protected by the Lawless-Duff-Astaire cartel and they got their pacing all wrong.

There would be a bit of that again with Gary Mason - who had potential - but who went in with Lewis on a long undefeated run but was actually way 'greener' than Lennox.

Frank needed some tougher fights earlier and to find out his best/most effective style earlier as well......Lawless and Duff usually got everything right, but not really with Frank I'd argue.

Lawless was very protective of Frank (personally) and I think Duff realised he could sell-out big halls and take home the big TV money even if Frank was facing Ekuland or the hulks of say Rodriguez, Coetzee or Scott LeDoux.

Defeats-wise, it might be worth just remembering he gave Lewis plenty of probs which better fighters failed to bring on the night and Witherspoon got a seriously bruising fight at Wembley, that fight was not one-way traffic at all.

'Late' Bruno tends to get a bit over-inflated but it was a way more convincing, world class act. Just a pity it was not discovered earlier when Frank was in his physical prime and not on the wrong end of some bad nights!

[bennie]

You're probably right. He was nice to me the one time I met him.

He was, of course, a pal of Jimmy Savile.

That’s a bit harsh, Savile was a huge celebrity and mixed with royalty, politicians and was photographed with just about everyone at some point. Savile didn’t have close friends, he just used people for his own gain. I think Bruno was a bit of a handful as a teen which is why he was sent to a school for problem children.

The problem was that he was violent and out of control.

Leaving that aside, I remember seeing Bruno on some celebrity sleepover programme and he came over terribly. Moody and aggressive. Having said that, people above are saying they met Bruno and he was alright with them, so fair enough.

I met Bruno before the live screening of the Holmes-Cooney showdown at Leicester Square Odeon in 1982. He was with Brixton's Tony Adams, who had just blasted his way to the ABA light-welterweight title and was about to go pro with Terry Lawless, who managed Bruno of course. Frank came across as a lovely guy, very polite. It's a shame in many ways that he turned pro when he did after winning the ABA heavyweight title in 1980. He was just 18 and spent the next couple of years kicking his heels due to a signing dispute between Lawless and Burt McCarthy which went all the way to the High Court.(The Colombia eye operation is all a load of bollocks.)
Those two years were a real opportunity for Bruno to build more experience (had he stayed amateur) and represent England at senior level. He boxed twice for Young England in West Germany in 1979, winning both bouts, and would surely have made the trip to Brisbane in 1982 for the Commonwealth Games. He was better than Gloucester's Harold Hylton, who did make the trip and reached the heavyweight final where he was stopped in a matter of seconds by Canada's Willie deWit. Instead, Bruno brushed aside a succession of opponents in the pro ranks who probably taught him nothing. He was 21-0 (21) when he faced James Smith in 1984 and apart from Jumbo Cummings, Ronald Gibbs, Stewart Lithgo, possibly Barry Funches and possibly Walter Santemore, he was never extended in any way.

[Fray Bentos]

That’s a bit harsh, Savile was a huge celebrity and mixed with royalty, politicians and was photographed with just about everyone at some point. Savile didn’t have close friends, he just used people for his own gain. I think Bruno was a bit of a handful as a teen which is why he was sent to a school for problem children.

The problem was that he was violent and out of control.

Leaving that aside, I remember seeing Bruno on some celebrity sleepover programme and he came over terribly. Moody and aggressive. Having said that, people above are saying they met Bruno and he was alright with them, so fair enough.

I met Bruno before the live screening of the Holmes-Cooney showdown at Leicester Square Odeon in 1982. He was with Brixton's Tony Adams, who had just blasted his way to the ABA light-welterweight title and was about to go pro with Terry Lawless, who managed Bruno of course. Frank came across as a lovely guy, very polite. It's a shame in many ways that he turned pro when he did after winning the ABA heavyweight title in 1980. He was just 18 and spent the next couple of years kicking his heels due to a signing dispute between Lawless and Burt McCarthy which went all the way to the High Court.(The Colombia eye operation is all a load of bollocks.)
Those two years were a real opportunity for Bruno to build more experience (had he stayed amateur) and represent England at senior level. He had boxed twice for Young England in West Germany in 1979, winning both bouts, and would surely have made the trip to Brisbane in 1982 for the Commonwealth Games. He was better than Gloucester's Harold Hylton, who did make the trip and reached the heavyweight final where he was stopped in a matter of seconds by Canada's Willie deWit. Instead, Bruno brushed aside a succession of opponents in the pro ranks who probably taught him nothing. He was 21-0 (21) when he faced James Smith in 1984 and apart from Jumbo Cummings, Ronald Gibbs, Stewart Lithgo, possibly Barry Funches and possibly Walter Santemore, he was never extended in any way.

Willie de Wit vs Bruno! That would have been worth seeing! who would have took that one in '82?