Tyson

[keithmoonhangover]

You are showing basic knowledge of the sport if you think every fighter performs their best in every fight, plenty of examples where that doesn’t happen.

You are showing basic knowledge or reading. I have never once said every fighter performs their best in every fight. I didn't say that because they don't. However, some boxers and fans make excuses for a poor performance, You're making an assumption that Tyson didn't prepare properly, even though the man himself said he did.

Ok he was in tip top condition, prepared as if it were a title fight against the top contender and still struggled. So does that make Ngannou really good or Usyk bad? I’ve said all along Fury was crap but I realise boxing isn’t black and white. You were the one who made a big thing of Ngannou being a novice but when pressed said if Ali out pointed him it’ll be a good result, when you previously said Crabtree would have knocked him out.

It's just my opinion, but a shut out is just as impressive as knockout. As for my predication if Ali fought Ngannou, he would completely dominate him until the ref or the corner stopped it. And yes, I'd pick Crabtree to stop him.

[Controversial]

You are showing basic knowledge or reading. I have never once said every fighter performs their best in every fight. I didn't say that because they don't. However, some boxers and fans make excuses for a poor performance, You're making an assumption that Tyson didn't prepare properly, even though the man himself said he did.

Ok he was in tip top condition, prepared as if it were a title fight against the top contender and still struggled. So does that make Ngannou really good or Usyk bad? I’ve said all along Fury was crap but I realise boxing isn’t black and white. You were the one who made a big thing of Ngannou being a novice but when pressed said if Ali out pointed him it’ll be a good result, when you previously said Crabtree would have knocked him out.

It's just my opinion, but a shut out is just as impressive as knockout. As for my predication if Ali fought Ngannou, he would completely dominate him until the ref or the corner stopped it. And yes, I'd pick Crabtree to stop him.

You didn’t answer the question, you obviously think Fury wasn’t underprepared and at his best, so does that make Ngannou really good or Usyk bad?

[keithmoonhangover]

Ok he was in tip top condition, prepared as if it were a title fight against the top contender and still struggled. So does that make Ngannou really good or Usyk bad? I’ve said all along Fury was crap but I realise boxing isn’t black and white. You were the one who made a big thing of Ngannou being a novice but when pressed said if Ali out pointed him it’ll be a good result, when you previously said Crabtree would have knocked him out.

It's just my opinion, but a shut out is just as impressive as knockout. As for my predication if Ali fought Ngannou, he would completely dominate him until the ref or the corner stopped it. And yes, I'd pick Crabtree to stop him.

You didn’t answer the question, you obviously think Fury wasn’t underprepared and at his best, so does that make Ngannou really good or Usyk bad?

Fury said he was prepared, I didn't say I think that. Every boxer is responsible for their physical and mental condition when they step through the ropes. Like Mike Tyson against Buster, maybe he didn't prepare properly, but that's his own stupid fault.

I already told you what I thought of Usyk-Fury. Usyk performed very well against a much bigger man.

[Controversial]

It's just my opinion, but a shut out is just as impressive as knockout. As for my predication if Ali fought Ngannou, he would completely dominate him until the ref or the corner stopped it. And yes, I'd pick Crabtree to stop him.

You didn’t answer the question, you obviously think Fury wasn’t underprepared and at his best, so does that make Ngannou really good or Usyk bad?

Fury said he was prepared, I didn't say I think that. Every boxer is responsible for their physical and mental condition when they step through the ropes. Like Mike Tyson against Buster, maybe he didn't prepare properly, but that's his own stupid fault.

I already told you what I thought of Usyk-Fury. Usyk performed very well against a much bigger man.

Yes they are, no one said otherwise and not what we were discussing. I said Fury didn’t look prepared and more than likely underestimated Ngannou as he wasn’t see as a worthy challenger and like a lot of fighters rises to the occasion depending on the challenger. You said I was making excuses. So you agree Fury wasn’t prepared then? You are slightly changing your answers each time.

[keithmoonhangover]

You didn’t answer the question, you obviously think Fury wasn’t underprepared and at his best, so does that make Ngannou really good or Usyk bad?

Fury said he was prepared, I didn't say I think that. Every boxer is responsible for their physical and mental condition when they step through the ropes. Like Mike Tyson against Buster, maybe he didn't prepare properly, but that's his own stupid fault.

I already told you what I thought of Usyk-Fury. Usyk performed very well against a much bigger man.

Yes they are, no one said otherwise and not what we were discussing. I said Fury didn’t look prepared and more than likely underestimated Ngannou as he wasn’t see as a worthy challenger and like a lot of fighters rises to the occasion depending on the challenger. You said I was making excuses. So you agree Fury wasn’t prepared then? You are slightly changing your answers each time.

I am not changing my answers. I don't know if Fury was prepared or not, but he says he was, so no offence, but I'm going to believe his words over yours.

[Controversial]

Fury said he was prepared, I didn't say I think that. Every boxer is responsible for their physical and mental condition when they step through the ropes. Like Mike Tyson against Buster, maybe he didn't prepare properly, but that's his own stupid fault.

I already told you what I thought of Usyk-Fury. Usyk performed very well against a much bigger man.

Yes they are, no one said otherwise and not what we were discussing. I said Fury didn’t look prepared and more than likely underestimated Ngannou as he wasn’t see as a worthy challenger and like a lot of fighters rises to the occasion depending on the challenger. You said I was making excuses. So you agree Fury wasn’t prepared then? You are slightly changing your answers each time.

I am not changing my answers. I don't know if Fury was prepared or not, but he says he was, so no offence, but I'm going to believe his words over yours.

Ok so you don’t have an opinion now. He’s already backtracked on how much he trained for that fight and there are interviews with those around him that say he didn’t train too hard either. His own dad even said before the fight he was concerned as Fury wasn’t in shape. That version of events is far more likely scenario than he was in superb condition and treating it like a title defence.

[keithmoonhangover]

Yes they are, no one said otherwise and not what we were discussing. I said Fury didn’t look prepared and more than likely underestimated Ngannou as he wasn’t see as a worthy challenger and like a lot of fighters rises to the occasion depending on the challenger. You said I was making excuses. So you agree Fury wasn’t prepared then? You are slightly changing your answers each time.

I am not changing my answers. I don't know if Fury was prepared or not, but he says he was, so no offence, but I'm going to believe his words over yours.

Ok so you don’t have an opinion now. He’s already backtracked on how much he trained for that fight and there are interviews with those around him that say he didn’t train too hard either. His own dad even said before the fight he was concerned as Fury wasn’t in shape. That version of events is far more likely scenario than he was in superb condition and treating it like a title defence.

[Cojimar 1946]

Douglas fought a great fight against Tyson. You should watch it some time. He would have beat Klitschko, Fury, Once a Year, Joshua etc.

Holyfield had lot of very good-great performances. Holyfield did not fight a good fight against Moorer. This doesn't mean the era is weak. In every era, a top fighter had a bad fight. Fury, Klitschko etc. had tons of crappy fights.

I can name many great hw fights from the 1990s. Can't name one great hw fight in the last 20 years.

In the real world Douglas lost to Jesse Ferguson and quit against Tony Tucker and his only quality win outside Tyson was Trevor Berbick. Hypotheticals don't carry the same weight as actual results. A guy who lost to Jesse Ferguson becoming lineal champ is not a great look for a supposed golden age. Douglas, Bowe, Moorer, old Foreman, and Rahman all becoming lineal champs in just over ten years seems like it requires a lot of explaining and excuse making.
The era would look a lot better if Tyson only lost to Holyfield and Holyfield only lost to Lewis and Lewis retired undefeated without the losses to Rahman and McCall.

douglas also beat Greg Page and Oliver McCall. not legends, but quality fighters.
Yes douglas lost to Ferguson and Tucker. He was not conistent. sometimes he fought great, sometimes not. Actually Tucker was a pretty good fighter. Ferguson wasn't great, but better than ross Purrity.
He fought great against Tyson.
You should watch the Tyson.

One thing you don't understand is upsets. You seem to think an upset automatically makes an entire era bad. It doesn't.

An upset loss should impact how highly the individual fighter was. It should be counted against him. It should be weighed against his big wins when rating him.

However, upsets don't make an era bad.

Whenever your guy loses, you have a crybaby excuse. However, you don't do that with the guys that you grew up fighting.

Did it ever occur to you that it was odd that the sport of boxing magically got so much better the day that you became a fan? The odds of that happening are astronomical.

Sure but it obviously hurts to some degree. Tyson, Lewis, and Holyfield all have losses to underdogs who did little aside from beating them. Seems very disappointing than none of them managed to avoid bad losses despite fighting in an era where guys fought infrequently and ducking was rampant with fighters management deliberately avoiding tough fights.
Tyson losing to Douglas is bad but Holyfield losing to Bowe and Moorer makes things worse and Lewis's losses worsens things further. To believe those upsets don't matter you would have to believe losses are irrelevant. Obviously they do which is why Wlad's losses are such a problem for many people.

[Ambling Alp II]

When a big name like Holyfield or Tyson or Lewis loses, you can also argue that there was more depth back then, which of course there was. They also fought once they reach the top than they have in more recent times.
Usyk fights once a year. It's no little wonder he doesn't have upset losses. He has fought 6x in the 6 years since moving up to hw. Holyfield has 14 by that time.

You are calling the 1990s an era when ducking was rampant? what the heck do you call the last 20 years?
Remember your boy Klitschko ducked Lewis for three years.

Of course, there were fights in the 1990s that did not happen that would have been great. but look at all the fights that did happen.

Again, I ask you, what great hw fights have happened in the last 20 years?

Holyfield losing to Bowe is not an embarrassment. For a time, Bowe was a great fighter. Better than Klitschko, Fury, Joshua, Usyk, Wilder ever dreamed of being. Thier first two fights were classics. Have you ever actually seen the Bowe-Holyfield fights?

[Cojimar 1946]

Ducking in the 1990s reached the level that top 10 lists were largely guesswork with a lot of people reaching high rankings who clearly did not deserve it. We don't have a good sense of how good a lot of guys are which makes evaluating wins difficult.
I was looking over Riddick Bowe's career and his best wins aside from Holyfield and Tubbs and Donald and Golota but I can't say with any certainty how good they are even in the context of that era. Golota lost every big fight of his career and lost to Grant which is a terrible loss. Maybe he could have beaten some top guys given the chance but he didn't in real life so its hard to say whether Lewis and Bowe should get any credit for beating him. Donald's losses are not as bad as Golota's but he doesn't have any big wins either so again not sure if beating him counts for much.

If Bowe is great there should be evidence of his greatness beyond the Holyfield trilogy but there's nothing beyond that to suggest he was great and he looked pretty mediocre vs many opponents including Golota, Tubbs, Biggs, Coetzer, etc, etc. He looked good vs Holyfield but Holyfield didn't have the power to take advantage of Bowe's terrible defense or great movement to exploit his lack of mobility. Golota looked very good in the Bowe fights but that didn't translate vs Lewis or Tyson.

Dubois fights are pretty entertaining, Chisora as well. Some good recent fights
Dubois-Joshua
Dubois-Hrgovic
Usyk-Joshua 2
Chisora-Whyte 2
Jennings-Dimitrenko
Ortiz-Martin
to name a few. Could be more if the top heavyweights fought each other more

[Controversial]

Too much emphasis is placed on losses sometimes, of course they matter but no one is unbeatable and what is more important is a fighters overall career instead of focusing on a defeat. It’s a cliche but we hear it all the time, in HW boxing it only takes one punch. Sometimes fighters have bad days at the office, maybe carrying an injury, maybe not “up for it” like they would be for someone else. Sometimes they are just caught cold and the fight is over, anyone can be knocked out. So many factors in play. Would anyone really not give Lennox a chance against any HW in history and he was stopped twice in his prime years. There are upsets all the time in boxing, from little upsets to major ones. I know we all argue about who would beat who but when you look at the predictions for almost any fight more often than not people get them wrong!





.

[Ezzard]

Too much emphasis is placed on losses sometimes, of course they matter but no one is unbeatable and what is more important is a fighters overall career instead of focusing on a defeat. It’s a cliche but we hear it all the time, in HW boxing it only takes one punch. Sometimes fighters have bad days at the office, maybe carrying an injury, maybe not “up for it” like they would be for someone else. Sometimes they are just caught cold and the fight is over, anyone can be knocked out. So many factors in play. Would anyone really not give Lennox a chance against any HW in history and he was stopped twice in his prime years. There are upsets all the time in boxing, from little upsets to major ones. In know we all argue about who would beat who but when you look at the predictions for almost any fight more often than not people get them wrong!

Agree.

HW boxing is a lottery. And it's getting more and more like this. The guys at the very top can all take one another out.

[Ambling Alp II]

Ducking in the 1990s reached the level that top 10 lists were largely guesswork with a lot of people reaching high rankings who clearly did not deserve it. We don't have a good sense of how good a lot of guys are which makes evaluating wins difficult.
I was looking over Riddick Bowe's career and his best wins aside from Holyfield and Tubbs and Donald and Golota but I can't say with any certainty how good they are even in the context of that era. Golota lost every big fight of his career and lost to Grant which is a terrible loss. Maybe he could have beaten some top guys given the chance but he didn't in real life so its hard to say whether Lewis and Bowe should get any credit for beating him. Donald's losses are not as bad as Golota's but he doesn't have any big wins either so again not sure if beating him counts for much.

If Bowe is great there should be evidence of his greatness beyond the Holyfield trilogy but there's nothing beyond that to suggest he was great and he looked pretty mediocre vs many opponents including Golota, Tubbs, Biggs, Coetzer, etc, etc. He looked good vs Holyfield but Holyfield didn't have the power to take advantage of Bowe's terrible defense or great movement to exploit his lack of mobility. Golota looked very good in the Bowe fights but that didn't translate vs Lewis or Tyson.

Dubois fights are pretty entertaining, Chisora as well. Some good recent fights
Dubois-Joshua
Dubois-Hrgovic
Usyk-Joshua 2
Chisora-Whyte 2
Jennings-Dimitrenko
Ortiz-Martin
to name a few. Could be more if the top heavyweights fought each other more

Wow, you are really reaching trying to come up with good fights in the last 20 years. Have never heard anyone say any of these fights were entertaining. Whcih ones were as good as Holyfield-bowe

Bowe's fights with Tubbs, Biggs and Coetzer were when he was on his way up. bowe actually foguht some decent opponents before he got a title shot. Crazy, isn't it?
fighting some decent in a non-title fight? That actually used to happen all the time.

Bowe looked great in most of his fights after he fought holyfield- against Gonzalez, Dokes, and Donald. Not great opposition, but he didn't have punch and clinch his way to wins.

As for the 1990s there was tons of fights between big names.
Ever seen Mercer-Lewis, Mercer-Holyfield? both great fights.
Mercer-Morrison
Lewis-Morrison
Lewis-Bruno
Tyson-Ruddock 2x
Tyson-Bruno
Holyfield-Dokes
Holyfield-Moorer 2x

Tons of other ones. Of course it could have been even better. You can say that about any era. It was still very good.

Remind me again,
Who won the Joshua-Fury fight?
Who won the Joshua-Wilder fight?
Who won the Usyk-Wilder fight?

[Cojimar 1946]

The 1990s feature the most humiliating losses by the supposed top dogs of any era I can think of since fighters started fighting less frequently. If your fighting 15-20 times a year bad losses are more acceptable because you can't be at your best each night.

How many eras feature one top guy getting knocked out by a 42-1 underdog? And another top guy getting kayoed by a 15-1 underdog who was coming off a kayo loss to Maskaev. (the same Maskaev who lost to Corey Sanders, not Corrie Sanders, the journeyman). In the current era Anthony Joshua is the only one with a remotely comparable loss. In the 1990s you have multiple Ruiz type losses by different fighters.

Comeback Foreman is probably the worst lineal champion in 40 years. Except maybe the Douglas who showed up vs Holyfield out of shape and didn't appear to make much effort. And people want to try to sweep this stuff under the rug?

[Ambling Alp II]

They are called upsets. Upsets don't make an era bad. Remember, one guy lost, but another guy scored a huge win.

Whenever one of your guys loses, there is always a crybaby excuse. When a guy from the 1990s loses it' always an embarrassment.
What does it say about an era where the best guy got stopped by Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster in his mid-late 20s, then dominates the field in when he is his 30s? Answer: It says the era sucks.

How about Tyson Fury for worst lineal heavyweight champion in the last 40 years? Constantly getting knocked down, questionable power, low work rate. Best opponent he ever beat Wilder. How impressive.

Douglas looked terrible against Holyfield. He looked great against Tyson. He inconsistent. The version of Douglas that beat Tyson would have beaten any heavyweight of the last 20 years.

You can always point out losses that guys in the 1990s had because often they actually fought each other. Not always of course, that is impossible. But pre-2000 you didn't have a top 10 consisting protected fighters with pretty records who won't fight each other.
The best heavyweight today fights once a year. One fight in 2019, one in 2020, one if 2021, one in 2022, one in 2023.

[Cojimar 1946]

Most eras that doesn't happen though. Leonard and Duran never got knocked out in their primes let alone by a Buster Douglas/Rahman type. Imagine Randy Shields had kayoed Leonard and Duran had lost to Bruce Finch who was then kayoed by a 42 year old Emile Griffith. In addition of course to Hearns getting kayoed by Colin Jones and Bobby Joe Young. Obviously that would dramatically downgrade the era as a whole. To believe otherwise you would have to say that such outcomes wouldn't alter your perceptions of the fighter involved which sees like nonsense.

The 1980s weltweight division seems like an example of a potentially great era while the 1990s heavyweight division upon closer inspection does not appear to live up to the hype.

[keithmoonhangover]

Most eras that doesn't happen though. Leonard and Duran never got knocked out in their primes

Wlad got knocked out in his prime by Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Most eras that doesn't happen though. Leonard and Duran never got knocked out in their primes

Wlad got knocked out in his prime by Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster.

- What brand diapers was you in then?

Wlad 22years old in his 12th fight of the year completely dominated Purrity whilst still using his amateur trainer, so, how would 22 yr old Ali have fared in his 12th fight of the year with his ama trainer? The Ks were being promoted as a KO machines when his trainer should've had Wlad moving around the ring the last rounds and boxing to a shutout on the cards like Angelo would have Ali doing, but of course Angelo was one of the best pro trainers in history, not an Olympic ama trainer.

Put lefty Sanders in the Ring with the Ali who had Cosell choking on his toupee when lefty Mildenberger had Ali ready to go, and GUARANTEE Ali after the lefty leaping headbutt followed by a devasting strait Wlad took would be out in quicktime. Wlad still with his ama trainer beat the count 5x before the ref rightfully stopped the fight.

Sanders was a lefty quick starting legend on the old AOL forums who was being boycotted because he was South African such that he made him $$$ on the African pro golf tours and Rugby. He might've gone down as a great heavyweight had he been allowed to fight a regular schedule. He definitely gave Vit his hardest fight.

Brewster fight was the easiest fight Wlad ever had. Jab, straight right, when he clinches walk him to the ropes for the ref to break. By this time the Ks brought in Manny to train Wlad. Vit stayed with their ama trainer who absorbed what Manny was instructing. Wlad knocked Brewster down twice, but the dirty ref Robert Byrd didn't call the 2nd because Brewster on his way down tackled Wlad down around the ankles. When he came out for the 5th, he could barely hold his hands up yet was able to back repeatedly to the ropes to avoid Brewsters now wild clubfighter Rocky swings.

Now, the backdrop to the 5th round is that all betting had been suspended by the major bookies when huge wads of ca$h were wagered out of the UK on Brewster who at best was a lucky clubfighter with a punch, ie a suspected FIX.

Does you even know what a fix is?

Wlad bounced off ballance from rope to rope hands down for the 5th, yet Brewster could scarcely touch him he was so clumsy. At the Bell to end the 5th, Brewster swung a wild left as Wlad was bouncing off the rope that may have parted his hair at best, but at that point Wlad completely collapsed and looked as though he was dying in spite of taking almost zero punches. He was taken to his stool where he was steadied by his team.

I was watching at a hotel as the lone patron at the bar to jump up and yell DRUGGED!!! The hotel mgr was a friend of mine who used to be part of Sugar Shane Mosely's crew. He came in to ask me how the fight went, so I said sit down and tell me what you think because HBO is going to replay it, and damned if he didn't jump up at the end and yell DRUGGED.

Oh, and I had the same reaction at the start of the 1st round of Ali/Foreman, and indeed Foreman said he was drugged by his mgr, but managed to spit out most of it before the fight. George Plimpton was ringside and yelled out Fix about the same time I jumped up, so I have purt fair record of seeing things as they are in boxing unlike you.

The dirty Vegas commish drug test was negative, but Wlad had high elevations of glucose to wit per boxrec:

Shortly after the fight Klitschko was rushed into the hospital. The examination showed Wladimir's blood sugar level almost two times higher than the permissible norm.
After returning from the examination to the hotel, Klitschko fell ill with nausea, followed by physical weakness.
On April 12, Wladimir arrived in Las Vegas and donated blood and urine samples for an independent examination, which was supposed to be done by Donald Katlin, who specialized in such cases. The examination showed no signs of anabolic steroids in his blood, but Katlin suggested that Klitschko could have been poisoned with Haloperidol. The drug has no taste or smell and causes mental disorders, which are accompanied by impaired coordination, a weakening reaction and overall physical weakness. After that, Wladimir demanded the tests taken by the Medical Center of South Nevada and the Nevada Quest Diagnostics to be passed on to Dr. Robert Wow for further research. However, the A sample had been disposed of, while the B sample, which was supposed to be stored for years, disappeared.

The Kbros now through the addition of Usyk have dominated Heavyweight boxing for 30 years.

But good news! Deyonce got his own statue in Tuscaloosa, Alabamy, his hometown. I'm sure for a modest fee he let's you camp the night there anytime you was in town...

[keithmoonhangover]

Most eras that doesn't happen though. Leonard and Duran never got knocked out in their primes

Wlad got knocked out in his prime by Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster.

- What brand diapers was you in then?

Wlad 22years old in his 12th fight of the year completely dominated Purrity whilst still using his amateur trainer, so, how would 22 yr old Ali have fared in his 12th fight of the year with his ama trainer? The Ks were being promoted as a KO machines when his trainer should've had Wlad moving around the ring the last rounds and boxing to a shutout on the cards like Angelo would have Ali doing, but of course Angelo was one of the best pro trainers in history, not an Olympic ama trainer.

Put lefty Sanders in the Ring with the Ali who had Cosell choking on his toupee when lefty Mildenberger had Ali ready to go, and GUARANTEE Ali after the lefty leaping headbutt followed by a devasting strait Wlad took would be out in quicktime. Wlad still with his ama trainer beat the count 5x before the ref rightfully stopped the fight.

Sanders was a lefty quick starting legend on the old AOL forums who was being boycotted because he was South African such that he made him $$$ on the African pro golf tours and Rugby. He might've gone down as a great heavyweight had he been allowed to fight a regular schedule. He definitely gave Vit his hardest fight.

Brewster fight was the easiest fight Wlad ever had. Jab, straight right, when he clinches walk him to the ropes for the ref to break. By this time the Ks brought in Manny to train Wlad. Vit stayed with their ama trainer who absorbed what Manny was instructing. Wlad knocked Brewster down twice, but the dirty ref Robert Byrd didn't call the 2nd because Brewster on his way down tackled Wlad down around the ankles. When he came out for the 5th, he could barely hold his hands up yet was able to back repeatedly to the ropes to avoid Brewsters now wild clubfighter Rocky swings.

Now, the backdrop to the 5th round is that all betting had been suspended by the major bookies when huge wads of ca$h were wagered out of the UK on Brewster who at best was a lucky clubfighter with a punch, ie a suspected FIX.

Does you even know what a fix is?

Wlad bounced off ballance from rope to rope hands down for the 5th, yet Brewster could scarcely touch him he was so clumsy. At the Bell to end the 5th, Brewster swung a wild left as Wlad was bouncing off the rope that may have parted his hair at best, but at that point Wlad completely collapsed and looked as though he was dying in spite of taking almost zero punches. He was taken to his stool where he was steadied by his team.

I was watching at a hotel as the lone patron at the bar to jump up and yell DRUGGED!!! The hotel mgr was a friend of mine who used to be part of Sugar Shane Mosely's crew. He came in to ask me how the fight went, so I said sit down and tell me what you think because HBO is going to replay it, and damned if he didn't jump up at the end and yell DRUGGED.

Oh, and I had the same reaction at the start of the 1st round of Ali/Foreman, and indeed Foreman said he was drugged by his mgr, but managed to spit out most of it before the fight. George Plimpton was ringside and yelled out Fix about the same time I jumped up, so I have purt fair record of seeing things as they are in boxing unlike you.

The dirty Vegas commish drug test was negative, but Wlad had high elevations of glucose to wit per boxrec:

Shortly after the fight Klitschko was rushed into the hospital. The examination showed Wladimir's blood sugar level almost two times higher than the permissible norm.
After returning from the examination to the hotel, Klitschko fell ill with nausea, followed by physical weakness.
On April 12, Wladimir arrived in Las Vegas and donated blood and urine samples for an independent examination, which was supposed to be done by Donald Katlin, who specialized in such cases. The examination showed no signs of anabolic steroids in his blood, but Katlin suggested that Klitschko could have been poisoned with Haloperidol. The drug has no taste or smell and causes mental disorders, which are accompanied by impaired coordination, a weakening reaction and overall physical weakness. After that, Wladimir demanded the tests taken by the Medical Center of South Nevada and the Nevada Quest Diagnostics to be passed on to Dr. Robert Wow for further research. However, the A sample had been disposed of, while the B sample, which was supposed to be stored for years, disappeared.

The Kbros now through the addition of Usyk have dominated Heavyweight boxing for 30 years.

But good news! Deyonce got his own statue in Tuscaloosa, Alabamy, his hometown. I'm sure for a modest fee he let's you camp the night there anytime you was in town...

Broughton, don't take this the wrong way, but you are a complete turnip.

[keithmoonhangover]

Most eras that doesn't happen though. Leonard and Duran never got knocked out in their primes

Wlad got knocked out in his prime by Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster.

- What brand diapers was you in then?

Wlad 22years old in his 12th fight of the year completely dominated Purrity whilst still using his amateur trainer, so, how would 22 yr old Ali have fared in his 12th fight of the year with his ama trainer? The Ks were being promoted as a KO machines when his trainer should've had Wlad moving around the ring the last rounds and boxing to a shutout on the cards like Angelo would have Ali doing, but of course Angelo was one of the best pro trainers in history, not an Olympic ama trainer.

Put lefty Sanders in the Ring with the Ali who had Cosell choking on his toupee when lefty Mildenberger had Ali ready to go, and GUARANTEE Ali after the lefty leaping headbutt followed by a devasting strait Wlad took would be out in quicktime. Wlad still with his ama trainer beat the count 5x before the ref rightfully stopped the fight.

Sanders was a lefty quick starting legend on the old AOL forums who was being boycotted because he was South African such that he made him $$$ on the African pro golf tours and Rugby. He might've gone down as a great heavyweight had he been allowed to fight a regular schedule. He definitely gave Vit his hardest fight.

Brewster fight was the easiest fight Wlad ever had. Jab, straight right, when he clinches walk him to the ropes for the ref to break. By this time the Ks brought in Manny to train Wlad. Vit stayed with their ama trainer who absorbed what Manny was instructing. Wlad knocked Brewster down twice, but the dirty ref Robert Byrd didn't call the 2nd because Brewster on his way down tackled Wlad down around the ankles. When he came out for the 5th, he could barely hold his hands up yet was able to back repeatedly to the ropes to avoid Brewsters now wild clubfighter Rocky swings.

Now, the backdrop to the 5th round is that all betting had been suspended by the major bookies when huge wads of ca$h were wagered out of the UK on Brewster who at best was a lucky clubfighter with a punch, ie a suspected FIX.

Does you even know what a fix is?

Wlad bounced off ballance from rope to rope hands down for the 5th, yet Brewster could scarcely touch him he was so clumsy. At the Bell to end the 5th, Brewster swung a wild left as Wlad was bouncing off the rope that may have parted his hair at best, but at that point Wlad completely collapsed and looked as though he was dying in spite of taking almost zero punches. He was taken to his stool where he was steadied by his team.

I was watching at a hotel as the lone patron at the bar to jump up and yell DRUGGED!!! The hotel mgr was a friend of mine who used to be part of Sugar Shane Mosely's crew. He came in to ask me how the fight went, so I said sit down and tell me what you think because HBO is going to replay it, and damned if he didn't jump up at the end and yell DRUGGED.

Oh, and I had the same reaction at the start of the 1st round of Ali/Foreman, and indeed Foreman said he was drugged by his mgr, but managed to spit out most of it before the fight. George Plimpton was ringside and yelled out Fix about the same time I jumped up, so I have purt fair record of seeing things as they are in boxing unlike you.

The dirty Vegas commish drug test was negative, but Wlad had high elevations of glucose to wit per boxrec:

Shortly after the fight Klitschko was rushed into the hospital. The examination showed Wladimir's blood sugar level almost two times higher than the permissible norm.
After returning from the examination to the hotel, Klitschko fell ill with nausea, followed by physical weakness.
On April 12, Wladimir arrived in Las Vegas and donated blood and urine samples for an independent examination, which was supposed to be done by Donald Katlin, who specialized in such cases. The examination showed no signs of anabolic steroids in his blood, but Katlin suggested that Klitschko could have been poisoned with Haloperidol. The drug has no taste or smell and causes mental disorders, which are accompanied by impaired coordination, a weakening reaction and overall physical weakness. After that, Wladimir demanded the tests taken by the Medical Center of South Nevada and the Nevada Quest Diagnostics to be passed on to Dr. Robert Wow for further research. However, the A sample had been disposed of, while the B sample, which was supposed to be stored for years, disappeared.

The Kbros now through the addition of Usyk have dominated Heavyweight boxing for 30 years.

But good news! Deyonce got his own statue in Tuscaloosa, Alabamy, his hometown. I'm sure for a modest fee he let's you camp the night there anytime you was in town...

Wow, what a wild ride that was. So, let me get this straight—Wlad was dominating Purrity, then decided to take a break from winning and hand over a victory just for kicks? And of course, it was all because his amateur trainer didn’t tell him to "move around the ring." Makes total sense. I mean, who needs things like defense or strategy in the final rounds when you can just hang out on the ropes, right?

Now, Sanders—a "quick-starting legend" of the AOL forums, no less. Truly, his greatest legacy. Sure, Sanders had a good night against Wlad, but let’s not pretend he was this mythical beast being avoided by the entire heavyweight division while making millions on African golf tours. I’m surprised they didn’t put him in the boxing Hall of Fame next to Tiger Woods. And yeah, Ali totally would’ve been helpless against that terrifying leaping left from Sanders. Forget about Ali’s footwork, intelligence, and ability to adapt—Sanders would’ve just hit him with that "devastating strait" and sent him to the shadow realm, right?

Oh, and Brewster? That fight was fixed! How could I have missed it? I mean, Wlad stumbling around like a newborn giraffe in the fifth round wasn’t a sign that he was gassed or took too many shots—it was clearly the work of nefarious forces! I guess all those "huge wads of ca$h" from the UK betting syndicate made Brewster look like a clubfighter until they activated the cheat code in round five. Wlad was clearly drugged, and not by fatigue or anything crazy like that—must’ve been Haloperidol, because who hasn’t heard of that being the go-to choice for sabotaging fighters?

But hey, I guess it all makes sense if you squint hard enough through the fog of conspiracy theories and magical boxing powers. Thanks for the lesson in alternate history!

[Cojimar 1946]

Most eras that doesn't happen though. Leonard and Duran never got knocked out in their primes

Wlad got knocked out in his prime by Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster.

Wlad has nothing to do with the current era being better than the 1990s.

Wlad being prime for Purrity is an odd take on what constitutes prime that throws out competition level, experience, distance, physical maturity, etc.

[Ambling Alp II]

It was his 25th pro fight after a lengthy amateur career. He was 22 years old. You can't use the "wasn't in his prime" excuse when he loses to a journeyman at that stage of his career. Guys with similar or less experience were world champions at this stage. Like Tyson who you like to rip.
Name a great fighter who lost to someone like that at that stage of their career and gets a free pass like you want to give Klitschko. Name some. I am guessing that you will duck this as you usually do when you get asked a question that makes your case look weak. Go ahead. Name some guys.

[keithmoonhangover]

It was his 25th pro fight after a lengthy amateur career. He was 22 years old. You can't use the "wasn't in his prime" excuse when he loses to a journeyman at that stage of his career. Guys with similar or less experience were world champions at this stage. Like Tyson who you like to rip.
Name a great fighter who lost to someone like that at that stage of their career and gets a free pass like you want to give Klitschko. Name some. I am guessing that you will duck this as you usually do when you get asked a question that makes your case look weak. Go ahead. Name some guys.

Agreed, Ali gets blasted for his fights against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper and he beat both of them.

Apparently Wlad was only in his prime when he was winning.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Wlad got knocked out in his prime by Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster.

- What brand diapers was you in then?

Wlad 22years old in his 12th fight of the year completely dominated Purrity whilst still using his amateur trainer, so, how would 22 yr old Ali have fared in his 12th fight of the year with his ama trainer? The Ks were being promoted as a KO machines when his trainer should've had Wlad moving around the ring the last rounds and boxing to a shutout on the cards like Angelo would have Ali doing, but of course Angelo was one of the best pro trainers in history, not an Olympic ama trainer.

Put lefty Sanders in the Ring with the Ali who had Cosell choking on his toupee when lefty Mildenberger had Ali ready to go, and GUARANTEE Ali after the lefty leaping headbutt followed by a devasting strait Wlad took would be out in quicktime. Wlad still with his ama trainer beat the count 5x before the ref rightfully stopped the fight.

Sanders was a lefty quick starting legend on the old AOL forums who was being boycotted because he was South African such that he made him $$$ on the African pro golf tours and Rugby. He might've gone down as a great heavyweight had he been allowed to fight a regular schedule. He definitely gave Vit his hardest fight.

Brewster fight was the easiest fight Wlad ever had. Jab, straight right, when he clinches walk him to the ropes for the ref to break. By this time the Ks brought in Manny to train Wlad. Vit stayed with their ama trainer who absorbed what Manny was instructing. Wlad knocked Brewster down twice, but the dirty ref Robert Byrd didn't call the 2nd because Brewster on his way down tackled Wlad down around the ankles. When he came out for the 5th, he could barely hold his hands up yet was able to back repeatedly to the ropes to avoid Brewsters now wild clubfighter Rocky swings.

Now, the backdrop to the 5th round is that all betting had been suspended by the major bookies when huge wads of ca$h were wagered out of the UK on Brewster who at best was a lucky clubfighter with a punch, ie a suspected FIX.

Does you even know what a fix is?

Wlad bounced off ballance from rope to rope hands down for the 5th, yet Brewster could scarcely touch him he was so clumsy. At the Bell to end the 5th, Brewster swung a wild left as Wlad was bouncing off the rope that may have parted his hair at best, but at that point Wlad completely collapsed and looked as though he was dying in spite of taking almost zero punches. He was taken to his stool where he was steadied by his team.

I was watching at a hotel as the lone patron at the bar to jump up and yell DRUGGED!!! The hotel mgr was a friend of mine who used to be part of Sugar Shane Mosely's crew. He came in to ask me how the fight went, so I said sit down and tell me what you think because HBO is going to replay it, and damned if he didn't jump up at the end and yell DRUGGED.

Oh, and I had the same reaction at the start of the 1st round of Ali/Foreman, and indeed Foreman said he was drugged by his mgr, but managed to spit out most of it before the fight. George Plimpton was ringside and yelled out Fix about the same time I jumped up, so I have purt fair record of seeing things as they are in boxing unlike you.

The dirty Vegas commish drug test was negative, but Wlad had high elevations of glucose to wit per boxrec:

Shortly after the fight Klitschko was rushed into the hospital. The examination showed Wladimir's blood sugar level almost two times higher than the permissible norm.
After returning from the examination to the hotel, Klitschko fell ill with nausea, followed by physical weakness.
On April 12, Wladimir arrived in Las Vegas and donated blood and urine samples for an independent examination, which was supposed to be done by Donald Katlin, who specialized in such cases. The examination showed no signs of anabolic steroids in his blood, but Katlin suggested that Klitschko could have been poisoned with Haloperidol. The drug has no taste or smell and causes mental disorders, which are accompanied by impaired coordination, a weakening reaction and overall physical weakness. After that, Wladimir demanded the tests taken by the Medical Center of South Nevada and the Nevada Quest Diagnostics to be passed on to Dr. Robert Wow for further research. However, the A sample had been disposed of, while the B sample, which was supposed to be stored for years, disappeared.

The Kbros now through the addition of Usyk have dominated Heavyweight boxing for 30 years.

But good news! Deyonce got his own statue in Tuscaloosa, Alabamy, his hometown. I'm sure for a modest fee he let's you camp the night there anytime you was in town...

Broughton, don't take this the wrong way, but you are a complete turnip.

- That why you never say what grade they kicked you out of when you aged out of grade school?

I provided verified data that perhaps your minder can translate for your level of understanding.

Vitali at the start of his career after wrecking Europe came to the US to lobby your heroes Tyson, Field, and Bowe and they turned their backs to flee to their safe spot.

He had to sue and win lawsuits thrice against light in the loafers Lewis before Lewis offered Vitali Tyson's slot after Tyson quit the shyte promotion Lewis put together for an undercard. Vitali accepted with 3 weeks notice to fill in for Tyson. 2 weeks before the promotion Lewis' opponent Kirk Johnson hurt his titty to withdraw whereupon Lewis in all his Majesty offered his 12 round title fight. Lewis had undergone light training for a month in England before coming to the US to train an additional 6 weeks.

To say Vit BTFO Lewis is an understatement reflected in Manny using the illegal loose tape to cut Vitali that Lewis kept rubbing his rasta kinks into as well has an epic trick holding Vit's head down while delivering a half dozen uppercuts enough to get the cuts stoppage in a fight he had run out of gas and losing on the cards.

HBO was paying a fortune for the rematch that WBC made mandatory that Lewis accepted before going back to his delaying tactics after forcing Vit to jump through medical hoops. The denouement came when he had Vit over to meet his mommy. After a pleasant visit, Vit left, and so mommy told him "You are not fighting this man." So after more delays, after being stripped of his WBA and IBF years before, he was a day from being stripped by the WBC when he announced his retirement and went wimpering away.

BTW, Manny thought so much for the Kbros that he abandoned his gym to live in Ukraine for most of the rest of his life while training Wlad who's early losses were while still using his Ama trainer Fritz Sdunek. Vit stayed with Fritz as they all absorbed the savvy experience of Manny

Meanwhile, Kirk Johnson who was Lewis' opponent who hurt his titty, why he was made Vitali's WBC mandatory and got KOed posthaste by Vit and the rest is how the Kbros, after emasculating your hero zeroes Tyson, Field, Bowe, and Lewie, why they took over the Biggest, most storied division in Boxing and took it to Ukraine where it remains to this day...yer welcome

[keithmoonhangover]

- That why you never say what grade they kicked you out of when you aged out of grade school?

I didn't attend grade school.