Charley Burley: The Man Who Should Have Been King

[HomicideHenry]

Charley Burley, 84-11-2 with 1 NC and 50 knock out's, is quite possibly the saddest story in the history of the ring. There has been no other fighter who has been cheated as often and ducked as this man was. How can you deny a man who beat the likes of Archie Moore, Fritzie Zivic, Billy Soose, Shorty Hogue, Holman Williams, Ezzard Charles, Harvey Massey, Jackie Burke, J.D. Turner and Baby Kid Chocolate, a shot at the Middleweight title?

He was ducked by seven champions. Seven! Ray Robinson, Jake LaMotta, Tony Zale, Marcel Cerdan, Rocky Graziano, Ken Overlin and Billy Soose. They all ducked Burley, with one excuse or another. Archie Moore, who practically fought them all, was quoted as saying that Burley was THE toughest opponent of his entire career.

My question is this, to all the experts in this forum, how would Burley have did against the likes of the seven champions who ducked him?

Sugar Ray Robinson: 175-19-6 with 2 NC's and 109 KO's

Jake LaMotta: 83-19-4 with 30 KO's

Marcel Cerdan: 106-4 with 61 KO's

Tony Zale: 67-18-2 with 45 KO's

Rocky Graziano: 67-10-6 with 52 KO's

Ken Overlin: 130-18-9 with 22 KO's

Billy Soose: 34-6-1 with 13 KO's

.......


Myself I believe Burley could have given any of the men listed one helluva fight. But I believe he could have beaten Soose [again], Overlin, Zale, Cerdan, Graziano, and LaMotta. Robinson just poses the biggest question mark of them all...though the MW Ray wasn't the Welterweight Ray and for him to have not fought Burley, but everyone else, is a tragedy.

[HomicideHenry]

Sorry...I misquoted...Burley went the distance twice with Ezzard Charles. My mistake.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

dont forget charley burley beat vastly underated jack chase 4 times, bert lytell, and aaron tiger wade.



* jake lamotta DID NOT duck charley burley. NO FUCKIN WAY. lamotta was a fearless bastard. he was one of the few white fighters of that era who fought the dangerous black murders row.

[HomicideHenry]

But LaMotta never gave him a shot either...I ain't saying LaMotta feared anybody, he fought several of THE best fighters in the world, black or white, didn't matter to him...but I think he had to have side stepped Burley because he was such a dangerous fighter to risk his title to.

[Boxscribe]

Burley - LaMotta was supposed to be a part of a proposed tournement by Abe Greene of the NBA that was to have featured Cerdan and Georgie Abrams in a four-way decider to determine a logical and undisputed challenger to the winner of the third Zale-Graziano bout.

Ceran was matched with Abrams and won, but Burley and LaMotta never materialised. As we know Cerdan went on to beat Zale, whilst LaMotta waited it out for his shot.

Burley was side-stepped by LaMotta, Cerdan, Graziano and Zale (amongst others), despite his management offering $60,000 for a fight with any of the aforementioned fighters.

Robinson was also offered $17,000 for a fight with Burley in 1945 - when Burley claimed he could still make welterweight - and $25,000 in 1946. Robinson declined on both occasions.

Burley was working on the garbage trucks by 1947 and inactivity saw him dropped from the ratings.

Without getting into the old arguement about who beats who, I have to say that Burley has an even chance of beating any of the fighters on the list.

There is plenty of information on Burley here:

http://www.charleyburley.com

[HomicideHenry]

Thank you Boxscribe...I knew what the hell I was talking about.

[Boxscribe]

Decagon,

Cerdan was older than Burley! In 1946 (when a fight with Cerdan was a possiblility), Burley was 28/29 and Cerdan was roughly a year older.

Who are the four men you are thinking of that LaMotta fought (that beat Burley)? I can think of Zivic, Marshall, Lytell and Holman Williams.

If you look at the time-line there are plenty of arguements that can be made.

Lew Burston and Jersey Jones had $60K in escrow for a fight with any of the fighters mentioned. I think this may have been more a means of indicating the lack of interest in a Burley fight around the ranked middleweights as Jersey Jones claimed in an interview at the time that he had trouble making matches for Burley with the likes of LaMotta, Graziano, etc., etc. If the money was there, why no takers?

I am not suggesting for one minute that LaMotta (or any other fighter for that matter) was scared of Charley Burley: I think it is more about risk V reward and LaMotta was a shrewd fighter - look at the number of opponents he fought more than once! Talk about wanting a sure thing.

[Boxscribe]

True. In the late 1940s, Burley wasn't ranked, and that set the reward (from the context of the time) waaaay low compared to getting into the ring with Burley. If he'd simply gotten a #7 ranking or something, LaMotta would've fought him. Heck, by 1947, LaMotta was past his prime, too.

So, by that logic, $60K was too low if you weren't ranked, but if you were - for example - ranked #7 - it was good enough?

Burley may not have been ranked by the Ring magazine, but - according to the NBA - he was still a contender and still ranked high enough to be part of a proposal by the president of the NBA to establish the number one contender to Zale/Graziano. Lamotta, Cerdan and Abrams were also part of that proposal.

LaMotta received $15K for his fight with Holman Williams, Cerdan earned around $20K for his fight with Abrams (also ranked middleweights with the NBA at the time).

A good crowd at MSG would bring in $100K and with a headliner looking at around 20-30% of that figure it is hard to see how $60K (as a starting point) is too low for either of these fighters. Especially as Burley was known for taking the short end of the purse just to get the fight and recognition.

$60K was a decent enough figure for any fighters ranked in the middleweight top ten to oppose each other in a non-title fight or - as in this scenario - an eliminator.

The point is, no one took the risk because they probably felt they would lose to Burley. Cerdan fought Abrams - LaMotta would not oppose Burley in the other semi-final.

Now, if the money was decent and Burley was ranked - which he certainly was at the time, no matter what the self-proclaimed 'bible of boxing' said - what is LaMottas reasoning for not fighting Burley?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

But LaMotta never gave him a shot either...I ain't saying LaMotta feared anybody, he fought several of THE best fighters in the world, black or white, didn't matter to him...but I think he had to have side stepped Burley because he was such a dangerous fighter to risk his title to.

NO LAMATTO SIDESTEPPED NO ONE. lamotta was fearless. if the burley-lamotta fight had been called upon, lamotta would have fought him in a heartbeat. but a burley-lamotta fight simply was never pursued or called out. the best time for it would have been in 1943-44 too bad it didnt happen.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

lamotta fought some of the best black fighters of that era in sugar ray robinson 5x, holman williams, lloyd marshall, bert lytell.........enough said. lamotta didnt duck burley.


in fact, like dec pointed out, lamotta fought 4 men who beat charley burley

[tonyevs]

It would be a good idea if you purchased Harry`s book on Charley Burley, it really does open ones eyes to the side stepping that went on towards the risky better fighters around at that time.