heavyweight champs - the missed or avoided challengers?

[pound per pound]

There had always been a theory that two black fighters in a fight would not draw as well.

Really? What was the attendance of Langford vs. Jeannette or McVey? Or Jeannete vs. Mcvey? I seen a photo of the corwd for that fight. It was packed with fans. Not an empty seat. So much for the theory.

[Ambling Alp II]

These three guys (and later Wills) fought so often against each other and so often against others is telling. If they were making big $, they would not have to do that nearly as often. So yes, there was something to the theory.

[Ambling Alp II]

lol ya, jack johnson beating a barely 20 year old, 156 pound sam langford is a great heavyweight win, surely excuses him from ever fighting him again. sam had even fought at 141 pounds just a year before

jack went even younger with sam mcvea though, fighting him when sam was still a teenager. of coursee ,like vs langford, jack was already a fully grown man at prime hw age.

jee, i wonder if inexperienced, undersized teeny boppers who arent even done growing could become much more formidable hw challengers as they got older and more experienced? jack himself was kod multiple times early in his career.

by the way, junior welterweights dev haney and regis prograis both weighed more than 156 on fight night when they fought last year, haney was even up to 165. at that stage of sam's career he was the size of just a light welter today, far from a genuine hw. wee little guy. imagine a hw beating a light welter and people trying to act like it's a big deal.

I raise you one Robert Thomspon. Who is he? He was a 130 something pound man who beat one John Arthur Johnson. They say the date was 1899 or 1895.

Imagine that? A heavyweight champion losing to a lightweight?

And you are getting this vague information from where? Johnson officially began his career in 1897 as a teenager. Before that, he did fight many unofficial fights (For example, Johnson would fight with several other black fighters fight blindfolded in battle royals for the amusement of white audiences.). The only guy with a similar name as Robert Thompson around that time did not fight Johnson.

[keithmoonhangover]

There had always been a theory that two black fighters in a fight would not draw as well.

Really? What was the attendance of Langford vs. Jeannette or McVey? Or Jeannete vs. Mcvey? I seen a photo of the corwd for that fight. It was packed with fans. Not an empty seat. So much for the theory.

The powers that be didn't want a black heavyweight champion and there was literally a campaign to get rid of Jack. If he was to lose his title to another black man, they would have the same problem. That's why no black boxer fought for the heavyweight title until Joe Louis.

[Bodyshot3]

Newman planned to marinate the fight, while there were no significantly better options. It's fair to say, that he made a stupid move.

Always loathed Rock Newman and I thought he was bad for Big Daddy.
He also failed to realise the point that Bowe-Lewis could have had a classic triology just between themselves.

[keithmoonhangover]

Newman planned to marinate the fight, while there were no significantly better options. It's fair to say, that he made a stupid move.

Always loathed Rock Newman and I thought he was bad for Big Daddy.
He also failed to realise the point that Bowe-Lewis could have had a classic triology just between themselves.

I spoke to Bowe about Newman and throwing the belt in the bin. At the time, Rock told him they were bigger than the WBC.

[Ezzard]

Funny, at the time I thought Bowe would beat Lewis. But looking back on their fights I really doubt Bowe could have mustered up enough to win 1 out of 3.

[Riddick Bowie]

Oh come on, Bowe mustered up enough to beat prime Holyfield two out of three in epic wars while Lewis was struggling with Bruno, Phil Jackson and a coked out old Tucker. Bowe lost only to Holyfield, narrowly; let's not talk about Lewis' losses.

Lewis bombed out Golota while the roided psycho was having a visible panic attack, Golota only being notable because he caught Bowe at the right time, and still retired himself both occasions with flagrant low blows.

Newman nixing the Lewis fight was in retrospect one of all the all-time bad calls. Bowe in 93 was so complete while Lewis was so incomplete. The only similarity with the Olympic final would be that Lennox still looked like an amateur. Bowe by that time looked like one of the biggest professional handfuls ever. It would have been a quick win for Big Daddy, with no calls for a rematch.

[Flump]

In 93 I agree that Bowe looked the better fighter, even if by then he was fattening up. The problem with Bowe was that he was too easy to hit. I certainly don't see him blasting even that Lewis out, but might well have won a decision.

Post Steward Lewis I think is better than any version of Bowe, except for that one night against Holyfield. In fact, that was a high watermark for both. Bowe's best performance, and Holyfields proper validation as a Heavyweight, as there was always a question mark over him in victory, that seemed to get removed in defeat after such a gallant effort, against a clearly talented big man.

[DrDuke]

In 1993 Bowe would most likely win Lewis.

[The Docker]

In 1993 Bowe would most likely win Lewis.

I disagree. Lewis held the trump card with the massive phycological edge he held over. Bowe didn't believe he could win the fight, and I'm with him on that. He simply didn't fancy it.

[Riddick Bowie]

In 1993 Bowe would most likely win Lewis.

I disagree. Lewis held the trump card with the massive phycological edge he held over. Bowe didn't believe he could win the fight, and I'm with him on that. He simply didn't fancy it.

A point refuted a thousand times. In 1994 Bowe and Lewis signed to fight each other. Hardly the actions of a man who didn't fancy it. All they needed to do to was get past their respective assignments of Larry Donald and Oliver McCall. Bowe fulfilled his end of the bargain.

Bowe fought Gonzalez, who battered him in the 87 Pan Ams, scoring 4 knockdowns. But he's spooked by a premature amateur ref stoppage in a fight where he hurt Lewis? He also rematched Golota, which took some balls (in more ways than one)

[The Docker]

In 1993 Bowe would most likely win Lewis.

I disagree. Lewis held the trump card with the massive phycological edge he held over. Bowe didn't believe he could win the fight, and I'm with him on that. He simply didn't fancy it.

A point refuted a thousand times. In 1994 Bowe and Lewis signed to fight each other. Hardly the actions of a man who didn't fancy it. All they needed to do to was get past their respective assignments of Larry Donald and Oliver McCall. Bowe fulfilled his end of the bargain.

Bowe fought Gonzalez, who battered him in the 87 Pan Ams, scoring 4 knockdowns. But he's spooked by a premature amateur ref stoppage in a fight where he hurt Lewis? He also rematched Golota, which took some balls (in more ways than one)

I most definitely don't doubt Bowe's courage, in fact it bordered on insane levels in taking the muay thai fight at his time of life and shape.

But I can't escape the fact he didn't much fancy the Lewis fight, was transparently obvious at the time as it is now when looking back. Jon Jones is not up for a fight with Aspinall. Doesn't dimminish his greatness but there is obviously a level of uncertainty that he can get the job done versus Aspinall, as there was with Bowe.

[Ambling Alp II]

He signed to fight Lewis. There is really little evidence that he didn't think he could beat Lewis.

[Riddick Bowie]

I disagree. Lewis held the trump card with the massive phycological edge he held over. Bowe didn't believe he could win the fight, and I'm with him on that. He simply didn't fancy it.

A point refuted a thousand times. In 1994 Bowe and Lewis signed to fight each other. Hardly the actions of a man who didn't fancy it. All they needed to do to was get past their respective assignments of Larry Donald and Oliver McCall. Bowe fulfilled his end of the bargain.

Bowe fought Gonzalez, who battered him in the 87 Pan Ams, scoring 4 knockdowns. But he's spooked by a premature amateur ref stoppage in a fight where he hurt Lewis? He also rematched Golota, which took some balls (in more ways than one)

I most definitely don't doubt Bowe's courage, in fact it bordered on insane levels in taking the muay thai fight at his time of life and shape.

But I can't escape the fact he didn't much fancy the Lewis fight, was transparently obvious at the time as it is now when looking back. Jon Jones is not up for a fight with Aspinall. Doesn't dimminish his greatness but there is obviously a level of uncertainty that he can get the job done versus Aspinall, as there was with Bowe.

Then why he did he sign to fight Lewis?

[The Docker]

A point refuted a thousand times. In 1994 Bowe and Lewis signed to fight each other. Hardly the actions of a man who didn't fancy it. All they needed to do to was get past their respective assignments of Larry Donald and Oliver McCall. Bowe fulfilled his end of the bargain.

Bowe fought Gonzalez, who battered him in the 87 Pan Ams, scoring 4 knockdowns. But he's spooked by a premature amateur ref stoppage in a fight where he hurt Lewis? He also rematched Golota, which took some balls (in more ways than one)

I most definitely don't doubt Bowe's courage, in fact it bordered on insane levels in taking the muay thai fight at his time of life and shape.

But I can't escape the fact he didn't much fancy the Lewis fight, was transparently obvious at the time as it is now when looking back. Jon Jones is not up for a fight with Aspinall. Doesn't dimminish his greatness but there is obviously a level of uncertainty that he can get the job done versus Aspinall, as there was with Bowe.

Then why he did he sign to fight Lewis?

Peer pressure embarrassment Billy.

After he humiliated himself sh!tting out of fighting Lewis by dumping the belt, what other choice did he have?

It was a catastrophic backfire from him and his team. Think it would have been more pertinent and widely accepted had he done it while donning a chicken suit. Wonder if KFC ever approached him to be the face if their brand?

[Riddick Bowie]

I most definitely don't doubt Bowe's courage, in fact it bordered on insane levels in taking the muay thai fight at his time of life and shape.

But I can't escape the fact he didn't much fancy the Lewis fight, was transparently obvious at the time as it is now when looking back. Jon Jones is not up for a fight with Aspinall. Doesn't dimminish his greatness but there is obviously a level of uncertainty that he can get the job done versus Aspinall, as there was with Bowe.

Then why he did he sign to fight Lewis?

Peer pressure embarrassment Billy.

After he humiliated himself sh!tting out of fighting Lewis by dumping the belt, what other choice did he have?

It was a catastrophic backfire from him and his team. Think it would have been more pertinent and widely accepted had he done it while donning a chicken suit. Wonder if KFC ever approached him to be the face if their brand?

Such a response makes you sound like you’re more emotionally invested in your version of events than you are the facts.

For the more curious types reading this, after Bowe knocked out Holyfield, him, Newman and HBO's Seth Abraham tried entice Lewis into a TVKO fight in 1996. Lewis declined, preferring to fight Ray Mercer on HBO for less money, making Lennox responsible for the fight failing to take place two out of three times it was on the table!

[keithmoonhangover]

Good post on Tubbs. His movement would have been a headache for Larry towards the end of his reign.

I read a good interview with Tim Witherspoon a few years back. When asked who the best of the lost generation was, he said Tubbs.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Nobody who fights holyfield 3 times is scared of anyone

That was a dumn stunt that made bowe look like a bitch. But it was that - a stunt

[pound per pound]

As heavyweight champion he could fight in any USA state,

I'm pretty sure he couldn't.

If a fight was banned in one state, no problem moving it to another state. There are always policans that welcome the attraction and money spent in their town.

[keithmoonhangover]

As heavyweight champion he could fight in any USA state,

I'm pretty sure he couldn't.

If a fight was banned in one state, no problem moving it to another state. There are always policans that welcome the attraction and money spent in their town.

It was different for Jack because of his skin colour. Even President Roosevelt minimised Jack's exposure.

[Ezzard]

Nobody who fights holyfield 3 times is scared of anyone

That was a dumn stunt that made bowe look like a bitch. But it was that - a stunt

I agree. It was a stunt that backfired.

[Ambling Alp II]

Floyd Patterson could have defended the title against Machen, Williams or Folley. It is debatable how much of that is because his trainer didn't want to deal with the IBC. He did defeat Machen after he was the champion.

Would have been interesting to see Dempsey fight Wills in 1924.
Would have been nice if Willard would have defended the title against Fulton or Morris.

[Controversial]

[

[Controversial]

They say that Marciano avoided the giant Cuban Nino Valdes, although Valdes lost to Archie Moore and Moore then lost in a crack at Marciano. Valdes proved a monster over here.

This was Bennie’s last post on the history part of this forum, his last post was before Xmas, hope all ok with him